From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Sat May  1 00:32:13 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:32:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Hardware gurus.. I need your opinion here..
In-Reply-To: <003401d73dfc$961c50d0$c254f270$@oricom.ca>
References: <003401d73dfc$961c50d0$c254f270$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVu=7Yrpcoqv5ixHWsPLQMT4YaV-fRnB068PbBaj01CJLA@mail.gmail.com>

The vintage computer folks have solved this problem with some models
of those battery-backed chips by hacking into the battery connection
and adding a coin cell, I don't know offhand if this can be done with
the one you have:
https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/genres/pcs-and-clones/62778-new-way-to-replace-ailing-dallas-rtc-chips

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:10 PM Jean-Pierre Desrochers
<jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
>
> I have a full functional old 90's Tektronix TDS350 that I use a lot.
>
> I love this Faithfull scope but its Dallas non-volatile Ram DS1630AB-120 has a datecode 9430 (1994, 30th week !)
>
> BUT it still keeps its calibration and data memory settings !!
>
> Imagine.. more than 25 years after !
>
> Well because I don't want to push my luck too far here
> I decided to replace this Dallas RAM for something more reliable
> for the next years to come..
>
>
>
> 2 choices:
>
>
>
> Replace it with a small 28DIP600 pcb hybrid filled with
> a non-volatile RAM controller IC + a 32k x 8 SRAM
> using an external connected 3V lithium battery.
>
>
>
> OR
>
>
>
> Buy a genuine Tektronix Dalals DS1630AB-120 like these ones for sale at $14.99US each.
>
> https://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=12458&bc=no
>
>
> The seller quotes:
>
> ".. the date codes are 9510 or -1995, 10th week"
>
> ".. all these are genuine parts bought from the tektronix surplus store in Beaverton, "
>
>
>
> Here I was aware of the inner battery life span left from the manufacturer's datecode.
> But the actual DS1630AB specs page 10  says:
>
> 9 - Each DS1630 has a built-in switch that disconnects the lithium source until Vcc is first applied by the user.
> The expected Tdr is defined as accumulative time in the absence of Vcc starting from the time power
> is first applied by the user.
>
>
>
> Sure these could have been connected at least once then the battery
> countdown started OR these have never been used..
>
>
>
> What do you think ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From kenny at beatkamp.com  Sat May  1 00:44:41 2021
From: kenny at beatkamp.com (Kenny Balys)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 22:44:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Hardware gurus.. I need your opinion here..
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVu=7Yrpcoqv5ixHWsPLQMT4YaV-fRnB068PbBaj01CJLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003401d73dfc$961c50d0$c254f270$@oricom.ca>
 <CA+wjhVu=7Yrpcoqv5ixHWsPLQMT4YaV-fRnB068PbBaj01CJLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <608C8859.2060009@beatkamp.com>


It may be wise, if you think the time is near, to pull the device and
read off the calibration data.

This may save you so much pain in the future.

The calibration procedure for my trust old Hameg HM-412's is already
hairy enough for me.

Imagine not having to do that because you can simply blow the
new data in.

Also, in the off chance that it does not need to be read/write you
could burn an EPROM with the calibration data.



On 30.04.21 22:32 , Ben Bradley via Synth-diy wrote:
> The vintage computer folks have solved this problem with some models
> of those battery-backed chips by hacking into the battery connection
> and adding a coin cell, I don't know offhand if this can be done with
> the one you have:
> https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/genres/pcs-and-clones/62778-new-way-to-replace-ailing-dallas-rtc-chips
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:10 PM Jean-Pierre Desrochers
> <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I have a full functional old 90's Tektronix TDS350 that I use a lot.
>>
>> I love this Faithfull scope but its Dallas non-volatile Ram DS1630AB-120 has a datecode 9430 (1994, 30th week !)
>>
>> BUT it still keeps its calibration and data memory settings !!
>>
>> Imagine.. more than 25 years after !
>>
>> Well because I don't want to push my luck too far here
>> I decided to replace this Dallas RAM for something more reliable
>> for the next years to come..
>>
>>
>>
>> 2 choices:
>>
>>
>>
>> Replace it with a small 28DIP600 pcb hybrid filled with
>> a non-volatile RAM controller IC + a 32k x 8 SRAM
>> using an external connected 3V lithium battery.
>>
>>
>>
>> OR
>>
>>
>>
>> Buy a genuine Tektronix Dalals DS1630AB-120 like these ones for sale at $14.99US each.
>>
>> https://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=12458&bc=no
>>
>>
>> The seller quotes:
>>
>> ".. the date codes are 9510 or -1995, 10th week"
>>
>> ".. all these are genuine parts bought from the tektronix surplus store in Beaverton,"
>>
>>
>>
>> Here I was aware of the inner battery life span left from the manufacturer's datecode.
>> But the actual DS1630AB specs page 10  says:
>>
>> 9 - Each DS1630 has a built-in switch that disconnects the lithium source until Vcc is first applied by the user.
>> The expected Tdr is defined as accumulative time in the absence of Vcc starting from the time power
>> is first applied by the user.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sure these could have been connected at least once then the battery
>> countdown started OR these have never been used..
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think ?
>>


From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Sat May  1 02:01:52 2021
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:01:52 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Hardware gurus.. I need your opinion here..
In-Reply-To: <27CFB976-7F6A-4314-B42E-8D59102B196A@audiobanshee.com>
References: <VI1PR0302MB332589AEF8497204847DCEAB945E9@VI1PR0302MB3325.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <27CFB976-7F6A-4314-B42E-8D59102B196A@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <18997bfe-63bd-b5c8-d7dc-6cb30cdffb1e@comcast.net>

I'm not familiar with the TDS product line. I am familiar with the 
DPO/MSO/MDO 2K/3K/4K.

There are 2 levels of calibration, factory cal and user cal. User cal is 
based on the data from the factory cal and should be done regularly to 
keep the scope up to snuff, it only takes about 5 minutes. When you do 
user cal you should let the scope warm up for about 30 minutes so things 
heat up and stabilized.

Factory cal takes about $75K of test equipment and about 20-30 minutes 
of time. It does a lot of low level timing and level tweaking.

On the product lines I mentioned the calibration info is stored in flash 
and doesn't need and battery backup.

I'd contact Tektronix and see what they have to say about the Dallas 
chip and calibration. Don't know if they are still as responsive as 
there were but at one time they were really good at answering questions 
like this.

Jay S.

On 4/30/2021 2:16 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
> Go ahead and buy the replacement that you think will work, but I wouldn't install it until the original actually fails. I'm assuming that you can still recalibrate after it fails and you finally install the replacement.
>
> My old Tektronix have no memory!
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2021, at 13:17, Ullrich Peter wrote:
>> Hi Jean-Pierre!
>>   
>> I would go for option one and use a AA or AAA size lithium cell that will last for the next 25 years for sure?
>>   
>> Why?
>> As the lifetime of lithium cells is given in the datasheet for about 10 years. Even if they are not used ? just think of self discharge and electrode passivating effects.
>>   
>> Ciao
>> Peter
>>   
>> Von: Jean-Pierre Desrochers
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 30. April 2021 22:08
>> An: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Betreff: *EXT* [sdiy] Hardware gurus.. I need your opinion here..
>>   
>> I have a full functional old 90's Tektronix TDS350 that I use a lot.
>> I love this Faithfull scope but its Dallas non-volatile Ram DS1630AB-120 has a datecode 9430 (1994, 30th week !)
>> BUT it still keeps its calibration and data memory settings !!
>> Imagine.. more than 25 years after !
>> Well because I don't want to push my luck too far here
>> I decided to replace this Dallas RAM for something more reliable
>> for the next years to come..
>>   
>> 2 choices:
>>   
>> Replace it with a small 28DIP600 pcb hybrid filled with
>> a non-volatile RAM controller IC + a 32k x 8 SRAM
>> using an external connected 3V lithium battery.
>>   
>> OR
>>   
>> Buy a genuine Tektronix Dalals DS1630AB-120 like these ones for sale at $14.99US each.
>> https://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=12458&bc=no
>>
>> The seller quotes:
>> ".. the date codes are 9510 or -1995, 10th week"
>> ".. all these are genuine parts bought from the tektronix surplus store in Beaverton,"
>>   
>> Here I was aware of the inner battery life span left from the manufacturer's datecode.
>> But the actual DS1630AB specs page 10  says:
>> 9 - Each DS1630 has a built-in switch that disconnects the lithium source until Vcc is first applied by the user.
>> The expected Tdr is defined as accumulative time in the absence of Vcc starting from the time power
>> is first applied by the user.
>>   
>> Sure these could have been connected at least once then the battery
>> countdown started OR these have never been used..
>>   
>> What do you think ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Sat May  1 06:28:26 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 00:28:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vox Continental key noise
In-Reply-To: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think you can eliminate the noise.  Vox combo organs are cheap
designs, the contact noise is DC transients when the contacts mate.
In an isolated setting you may notice the contact noise, while in a
band setting it will be masked out by all the other instruments.

Don't expect these to be high fidelity.

MC

On 4/30/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've got a continental v301e here where I'm getting a nasty contact noise
> on all keys, which varies in level (seemingly due to where the waveform
> falls). It's definitely not just dirty bus bars & j wires, which have been
> cleaned pretty aggressively. Most of the finger connections seem good, all
> electrolytics replaced, and a few of the (film?) caps replaced for being
> open.
>
> With all tone boards in, each bus has an offset of low double digit
> millivolts. With a single tone board in it still occurs with an offset in
> the single digit mV and it still happens. I've replaced coupling caps in a
> few and they still have noise.  I can see the spikes on the scope even
> without the preamp board installed. Would such a small offset cause popping
> like that on the switches?
>
> The continental is a fair bit older than gear I'm used to working on so I'm
> still getting my bearings on the construction and haven't checked this yet,
> but I suspect the ground from the draw bars or going to the tone boards
> needs to be looked at closer.  I do get some very low noise on the power
> supply (even with nothing installed) again in the 10s of mV range p-p.
>
> Schematics can be found here:
> http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html
>
> Any guidance or advice would be appreciated! If anyone knows of a good
> transistor organ repair forum or list that would be very helpful too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nathan
>


From jason at tribbeck.com  Sat May  1 08:41:01 2021
From: jason at tribbeck.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 07:41:01 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Hardware gurus.. I need your opinion here..
In-Reply-To: <003401d73dfc$961c50d0$c254f270$@oricom.ca>
References: <003401d73dfc$961c50d0$c254f270$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAL3=FbagGA9g5Qj4jLYFPODbq7p4J-hsqPO5EZNveaShBGGLQw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

As before, FRAM could be a good replacement. Cypress FM1808B-SG or
FM18W08B-SG. Although as mentioned in the other thread, there may be
incompatibilities in timings, so best to check.

The main difference could be if the TDS350 uses the partitioning feature of
the DS1630AB (I'd not heard of that before). However, you'd have this
problem if you went down the hybrid route anyway. If the partitioning
feature is used, then basically your second option is going to be the best.

I would echo the important thing to do is copy the existing data off it
first of all, and then figure out what to do with it.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 21:12, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
wrote:

> I have a full functional old 90's Tektronix TDS350 that I use a lot.
>
> I love this Faithfull scope but its Dallas non-volatile Ram DS1630AB-120
> has a datecode 9430 (1994, 30th week !)
>
> BUT it still keeps its calibration and data memory settings !!
>
> Imagine.. more than 25 years after !
>
> Well because I don't want to push my luck too far here
> I decided to replace this Dallas RAM for something more reliable
> for the next years to come..
>
>
>
> *2 choices:*
>
>
>
> Replace it with a small 28DIP600 pcb hybrid filled with
> a non-volatile RAM controller IC + a 32k x 8 SRAM
> using an external connected 3V lithium battery.
>
>
>
> *OR*
>
>
>
> Buy a genuine Tektronix Dalals DS1630AB-120 like these ones for sale at
> $14.99US each.
>
> https://www.qservice.tv/vpasp/shopexd.asp?id=12458&bc=no
>
>
> The seller quotes:
>
> ".. the date codes are 9510 or -1995, 10th week"
>
> ".. all these are genuine parts bought from the tektronix surplus store in
> Beaverton, "
>
>
>
> Here I was aware of the inner battery life span left from the
> manufacturer's datecode.
> But the actual DS1630AB specs page 10  says:
>
>
>
> *9 - Each DS1630 has a built-in switch that disconnects the lithium source
> until Vcc is first applied by the user.The expected Tdr is defined as
> accumulative time in the absence of Vcc starting from the time poweris
> first applied by the user.*
>
>
>
> Sure these could have been connected at least once then the battery
> countdown started OR these have never been used..
>
>
>
> What do you think ?
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


-- 
Confucius says: Man with problem who thinks solution is regular expression
now has two problems.

*/s/two/many/*
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sat May  1 16:01:05 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 10:01:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Partitioning feature of the DS1630AB..
Message-ID: <000d01d73e92$6e44f800$4acee800$@oricom.ca>

What is the difference between the partitioning feature of a Dallas NVRAM DS1630AB
and a standard 32k x 8 SRAM (regardless the non-volatile option) ?

Both running at the same speed and 5v voltages ..

Can the DS1630AB be replaced by a standard SRAM of the same size ?

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From nathan at idmclassics.net  Sat May  1 17:32:09 2021
From: nathan at idmclassics.net (Nathan Trites)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 11:32:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vox Continental key noise
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHy3N6Az2Ht85AGP-m+qMM73f5_JCkfaDZg5chkrksoV_53X4g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks. That?s another thing I wondered about - to what extent do they
click/pop under normal conditions.

 I know it won?t be perfect but the noise is significantly louder than the
tones, sounds just this video but on every key https://youtu.be/NnwJZt3TifI

I?ll have time to dig in more tomorrow.

Nathan

On Saturday, May 1, 2021, Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't think you can eliminate the noise.  Vox combo organs are cheap
> designs, the contact noise is DC transients when the contacts mate.
> In an isolated setting you may notice the contact noise, while in a
> band setting it will be masked out by all the other instruments.
>
> Don't expect these to be high fidelity.
>
> MC
>
> On 4/30/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've got a continental v301e here where I'm getting a nasty contact noise
> > on all keys, which varies in level (seemingly due to where the waveform
> > falls). It's definitely not just dirty bus bars & j wires, which have
> been
> > cleaned pretty aggressively. Most of the finger connections seem good,
> all
> > electrolytics replaced, and a few of the (film?) caps replaced for being
> > open.
> >
> > With all tone boards in, each bus has an offset of low double digit
> > millivolts. With a single tone board in it still occurs with an offset in
> > the single digit mV and it still happens. I've replaced coupling caps in
> a
> > few and they still have noise.  I can see the spikes on the scope even
> > without the preamp board installed. Would such a small offset cause
> popping
> > like that on the switches?
> >
> > The continental is a fair bit older than gear I'm used to working on so
> I'm
> > still getting my bearings on the construction and haven't checked this
> yet,
> > but I suspect the ground from the draw bars or going to the tone boards
> > needs to be looked at closer.  I do get some very low noise on the power
> > supply (even with nothing installed) again in the 10s of mV range p-p.
> >
> > Schematics can be found here:
> > http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html
> >
> > Any guidance or advice would be appreciated! If anyone knows of a good
> > transistor organ repair forum or list that would be very helpful too.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Nathan
> >
>
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From jason at tribbeck.com  Sat May  1 21:19:26 2021
From: jason at tribbeck.com (Jason Tribbeck)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 20:19:26 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Partitioning feature of the DS1630AB..
In-Reply-To: <000d01d73e92$6e44f800$4acee800$@oricom.ca>
References: <000d01d73e92$6e44f800$4acee800$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAL3=Fbb16_kYzPT9NRjY81rfX62qoN_PTFyXs9Tyub=Zw0g85w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'd not seen a partitioned ram system before I looked at the datasheet for
the DS1630AB.

It's method to add write protection for partitions of the memory, and in
order to activate it, you need to send a particular nibble sequence to the
top 4 bits of the address (A11 to A14), using read cycles. There are 16
partitions, each equal in size in memory (so each are 2Kx8).

The sequence needs to be F, E, 7, 7, 3, 9, C, E, 7, 3, 9, 4, 2, 4, A, 6, 9,
1, 0, 5 - and then send 4 nibbles that enable / disable writing to each of
the 16 partitions (1 = deny write; 0 = permit write).

It seems like you can get the partition and battery backup control in
(obsolete) DS1610 as well.

If you needed to implement it in something a bit more modern, then you'll
need to see if there is something that does something similar (I've not
found one yet), or implement it in something like a CPLD.

If you don't implement it, then all of your memory will be writeable, which
could cause problems for systems that are expecting the memory to be
read-only in certain areas.

Unfortunately, my quick scan of the datasheet does not indicate if the
memory defaults to being writeable or not. It could potentially retain the
settings from the last time the partitioning was configured (as it has
access to the battery backup).

On Sat, 1 May 2021 at 15:05, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
wrote:

> What is the difference between the partitioning feature of a Dallas NVRAM
> DS1630AB
> and a standard 32k x 8 SRAM (regardless the non-volatile option) ?
>
> Both running at the same speed and 5v voltages ..
>
> Can the DS1630AB be replaced by a standard SRAM of the same size ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


-- 
Confucius says: Man with problem who thinks solution is regular expression
now has two problems.

*/s/two/many/*
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sat May  1 22:16:22 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 16:16:22 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Partitioning feature of the DS1630AB..
In-Reply-To: <CAL3=Fbb16_kYzPT9NRjY81rfX62qoN_PTFyXs9Tyub=Zw0g85w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000d01d73e92$6e44f800$4acee800$@oricom.ca>
 <CAL3=Fbb16_kYzPT9NRjY81rfX62qoN_PTFyXs9Tyub=Zw0g85w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002501d73ec6$db723260$92569720$@oricom.ca>

Thank You very much Jason,

 

That is a very instructive explanation of the DS1630 possible partitioning behaviour?

 

Since I need to replace the DS1630AB used in my TDS350 and don?t know
how Tektronix is using it I finally find the dremeling of an old DS1630 (Y or AB)
to be the best way  to get rid of the inner battery but keeping the partitionable SRAM.
I?ll buy 2 or 3 of these old IC then salvage a first one to see how and where the inner battery cell
is connected inside. Then ?correctly? dremel another one and do the cell tab?s surgery to use external leads to
a more robust 3V lithium like a CR123A placed in an holder.

 

This will be my final choice..

 

 

De : Jason Tribbeck [mailto:jason at tribbeck.com] 
Envoy? : 1 mai 2021 15:19
? : Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Cc : synth-diy mailing list
Objet : Re: [sdiy] Partitioning feature of the DS1630AB..

 

Hi,

 

I'd not seen a partitioned ram system before I looked at the datasheet for the DS1630AB.

 

It's method to add write protection for partitions of the memory, and in order to activate it, you need to send a particular nibble sequence to the top 4 bits of the address (A11 to A14), using read cycles. There are 16 partitions, each equal in size in memory (so each are 2Kx8).

 

The sequence needs to be F, E, 7, 7, 3, 9, C, E, 7, 3, 9, 4, 2, 4, A, 6, 9, 1, 0, 5 - and then send 4 nibbles that enable / disable writing to each of the 16 partitions (1 = deny write; 0 = permit write).

 

It seems like you can get the partition and battery backup control in (obsolete) DS1610 as well.

 

If you needed to implement it in something a bit more modern, then you'll need to see if there is something that does something similar (I've not found one yet), or implement it in something like a CPLD.

 

If you don't implement it, then all of your memory will be writeable, which could cause problems for systems that are expecting the memory to be read-only in certain areas.

 

Unfortunately, my quick scan of the datasheet does not indicate if the memory defaults to being writeable or not. It could potentially retain the settings from the last time the partitioning was configured (as it has access to the battery backup).

 

On Sat, 1 May 2021 at 15:05, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:

What is the difference between the partitioning feature of a Dallas NVRAM DS1630AB
and a standard 32k x 8 SRAM (regardless the non-volatile option) ?

Both running at the same speed and 5v voltages ..

Can the DS1630AB be replaced by a standard SRAM of the same size ?

_______________________________________________
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-- 

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/s/two/many/

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From synthdiy at adambaby.com  Sun May  2 01:10:57 2021
From: synthdiy at adambaby.com (Adam Inglis (synthDIY))
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Vox Continental key noise
In-Reply-To: <CAHy3N6Az2Ht85AGP-m+qMM73f5_JCkfaDZg5chkrksoV_53X4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHy3N6Az2Ht85AGP-m+qMM73f5_JCkfaDZg5chkrksoV_53X4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3066139E-D035-473D-B01C-EADAFD476026@adambaby.com>



> On 2 May 2021, at 1:32 am, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks. That?s another thing I wondered about - to what extent do they click/pop under normal conditions.
> 
>  I know it won?t be perfect but the noise is significantly louder than the tones, sounds just this video but on every key https://youtu.be/NnwJZt3TifI <https://youtu.be/NnwJZt3TifI>
> 


I agree, that low frequency thump heard there is not just key click. And you?re getting that on all keys?
At least it looks a bit easier to work on than my old Farfisa!!
https://mezzoauto.blogspot.com/2019/05/farfisa-compact.html <https://mezzoauto.blogspot.com/2019/05/farfisa-compact.html>

You seem to have addressed all the things I did in fixing mine - which essentailly got down mainly to replacing 50 year old electrolytics.
Obviously, you need to see if the supply voltage is sagging with key presses, it might need some attention?

good luck and keep us informed!
A
















> I?ll have time to dig in more tomorrow. 
> 
> Nathan
> 
> On Saturday, May 1, 2021, Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com <mailto:mec.forumreader at gmail.com>> wrote:
> I don't think you can eliminate the noise.  Vox combo organs are cheap
> designs, the contact noise is DC transients when the contacts mate.
> In an isolated setting you may notice the contact noise, while in a
> band setting it will be masked out by all the other instruments.
> 
> Don't expect these to be high fidelity.
> 
> MC
> 
> On 4/30/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net <mailto:nathan at idmclassics.net>> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've got a continental v301e here where I'm getting a nasty contact noise
> > on all keys, which varies in level (seemingly due to where the waveform
> > falls). It's definitely not just dirty bus bars & j wires, which have been
> > cleaned pretty aggressively. Most of the finger connections seem good, all
> > electrolytics replaced, and a few of the (film?) caps replaced for being
> > open.
> >
> > With all tone boards in, each bus has an offset of low double digit
> > millivolts. With a single tone board in it still occurs with an offset in
> > the single digit mV and it still happens. I've replaced coupling caps in a
> > few and they still have noise.  I can see the spikes on the scope even
> > without the preamp board installed. Would such a small offset cause popping
> > like that on the switches?
> >
> > The continental is a fair bit older than gear I'm used to working on so I'm
> > still getting my bearings on the construction and haven't checked this yet,
> > but I suspect the ground from the draw bars or going to the tone boards
> > needs to be looked at closer.  I do get some very low noise on the power
> > supply (even with nothing installed) again in the 10s of mV range p-p.
> >
> > Schematics can be found here:
> > http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html <http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html>
> >
> > Any guidance or advice would be appreciated! If anyone knows of a good
> > transistor organ repair forum or list that would be very helpful too.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From metadata at gmx.com  Sun May  2 01:37:26 2021
From: metadata at gmx.com (Neil Harper)
Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 19:37:26 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <59440235-AE33-4076-B13B-D73A7D6A0926@gmail.com>
References: <53afe90e-22b8-2567-a3f2-d61fa8a3813e@gmx.com>
 <CAHy3N6CzN2iHJS0oouwSSvpKYY4=MGr+rqKc5r3oAJs3Sm=9tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <59440235-AE33-4076-B13B-D73A7D6A0926@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3cc6e2a3-e4fa-88f4-e319-4d9a144005e7@gmx.com>

so I had a chance to try some touch-sensitive stuff with the teensy LC,
and it's been pretty interesting. It all works great and as expected!
obviously i would need to program in the latching and do some sort of
hysteresis (like a schmitt trigger but in code :) thing so I don't get
any jumpy response.

interestingly, i had a better signal to noise ratio using the generic
arduino capacitance sense library than I did using the teensy's
dedicated "touch" pins with the appropriate commands. but both showed
really good results where I'll be able to do a simple "off" or "on"
thing very easily.

for a pad I just used a piece of copper tape. i also placed a second
piece about 1-2mm away and connected that to ground and was touching
between the two so my finger bridged the sensing pad and the grounding pad.

i was getting good signal just touching the sensing pad, but using the
grounding pad as well doubled the signal.

next i'd like to figure out what materials i might be able to cover the
bare copper with and still have the touch signal show up good. it'd be
great to not see bare copper but have some printed legend or color coding.




--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks



From thebot at btinternet.com  Sun May  2 10:25:04 2021
From: thebot at btinternet.com (Scott Young)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 09:25:04 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <3cc6e2a3-e4fa-88f4-e319-4d9a144005e7@gmx.com>
References: <3cc6e2a3-e4fa-88f4-e319-4d9a144005e7@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <306C804F-DEB1-44A2-A264-4A5BF83826BD@btinternet.com>

Hi Neil,

A fun option is this stuff:

https://www.bareconductive.com/

You can use it to replace the copper, and because it?s ink you can do shapes for certain functions.  You can do all sorts of stuff like screen printing too with it if you want to get fancy.

Cheers,
Scott.

> On 2 May 2021, at 00:38, Neil Harper via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:.
> 
> next i'd like to figure out what materials i might be able to cover the
> bare copper with and still have the touch signal show up good. it'd be
> great to not see bare copper but have some printed legend or color coding.
> 
> --
> /// Neil Harper
> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Sun May  2 17:35:40 2021
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 16:35:40 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
In-Reply-To: <9e1330630ec54fe89108c749a03a8bc3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <5CD644741A404F64BD7EDA9FAC2587E7@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <47214760a8b547aeb11534cc027ded81@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V--XnJJp-XqG3Z+kCHHrroPOFX589taha=tsir69Eb0OCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e9518a280fd43c5983f637a10895772@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <F8EFEF63-A951-4AF1-A409-438F7D54187B@audiobanshee.com>
 <9e1330630ec54fe89108c749a03a8bc3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <1D9B5D2BAF03441F80F3332FB2E9F7AC@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

Hi guys and girls,

Thanks for all your suggestions with this on and off the list.  Some 
manufacturer's names are cropping up again and again.  Definitely got some 
good leads to look into.

-Richie,



-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Bryant
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:40 AM
To: Brian Willoughby
Cc: synth-diy mailing list
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface

> "Then drops like a stone" seems to imply a brick wall filter. Aren't those 
> expensive in analog implementations?

Not really - the combination of capacitors on the input transistor bases, 
then on the feedback of every op-amp, then the final RC feeding the ADC are 
all set to around 80-100kHz in most designs so as to make sure there's no 
response at the bottom of the long-wave radio band.

Just realised that the hyper-expensive AK4558 has a very extended frequency 
response in the slow roll-off mode so add that to the list, not that it's 
available at the moment due to the AKM fab fire.

There's also quite a few 384kHz devices available now, though some seem to 
start a slow roll-off at around 48kHz.  Still plenty of response at 80kHz 
but definitely not flat.


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Willoughby [mailto:brianw at audiobanshee.com]
Sent: 30 April 2021 01:58
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy mailing list
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface

Thanks, Mike.

"Then drops like a stone" seems to imply a brick wall filter. Aren't those 
expensive in analog implementations?

On that note, if the AFE has a brick wall at 80 kHz, then it's not really 
relying on the ADC for the frequency response - at least the ADC isn't going 
to be able to be set to 384 kHz sample rate and change the frequency 
response much in that regard.

... not that we're talking about 384 kHz sampling - that would be crazy 
talk.

Brian

p.s. I'll mention that the Metric Halo Labs interfaces have DC response on 
the line level input path to the ADC. They don't maintain DC response on the 
mic preamp settings because of phantom power and other aspects of the 
microphone preamp stage. The Owners' Manual specifies a response of 1.8 Hz 
to 64.7 kHz +0/-1.0dB @ fs = 192 kHz. If you want tighter frequency 
response, it's 5.7 Hz to 42.1 kHz +0/-0.1dB at the same sample rate. 0.0005% 
THD @ -12 dBFS, 0.0015% THD @ -0 dBFS. I'm not sure which chips they're 
using, but it might be the AK4395.


On Apr 29, 2021, at 17:15, Mike Bryant wrote:
> Every mic preamp ADC I know of, including several I've designed myself 
> which I won't plug here, primarily rely on the ADC itself to set the 
> frequency response.  The AFE usually has a 3dB point of around 80kHz or 
> higher so as not to affect the overall phase response, then drops like a 
> stone to avoid any RF getting to the ADC.
>
> Also AKM and Cirrus ADCs seem to stick to a 40kHz bandwidth at 192kHz 
> sampling so it may only be ESS or custom equipped units that can do 80kHz.
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 6:19 PM Mike Bryant wrote:
>>
>> Most high frequency sampling ADCs aren't good to 80kHz.  They have a much 
>> more relaxed roll-off to about 40kHz to avoid phase effects on the audio, 
>> then dive.  Probably best to look at the ADCs datasheets from AKM, Cirrus 
>> and Analog Devices and find an ADC that does what you want, then look for 
>> units that use that device.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richie Burnett
>> Sent: 29 April 2021 11:44
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a decent external USB audio interface that's capable 
>> of sampling at 192kHz in record and playback?
>>
>> This is a bit off topic, but it's still audio related! ;-)  Some of my 
>> colleagues do underwater acoustic communications work and have been using 
>> a "Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi HD 24-bit 96KHz USB Audio Interface" 
>> with great success to record and playback ultrasonic signals up to 44kHz. 
>> Now they are wanting to do similar up to around 80kHz so I'm looking for 
>> an external audio interface capable of sampling at 192kHz with an 
>> analogue bandwidth out to around 80kHz.
>>
>> The only application I'm aware of that requires this sort of analogue 
>> bandwidth is the delivery of composite FM stereo multiplex from studio to 
>> transmitter site over IP.  So, I know it is possible, but wanted to avoid 
>> buying lots of audio interfaces and testing them to see which are good to 
>> 80kHz!
>>
>> Any tips/pointers/experience good or bad would be much appreciated.
>> Off-list is fine if high-bandwidth audio is not considered to be of 
>> interest to others.
>>
>> Many thanks in advance,
>>
>> -Richie,



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



From jamoore84 at gmail.com  Sun May  2 17:55:55 2021
From: jamoore84 at gmail.com (Jimmy Moore)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 09:55:55 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
In-Reply-To: <1D9B5D2BAF03441F80F3332FB2E9F7AC@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <5CD644741A404F64BD7EDA9FAC2587E7@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <47214760a8b547aeb11534cc027ded81@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V--XnJJp-XqG3Z+kCHHrroPOFX589taha=tsir69Eb0OCA@mail.gmail.com>
 <9e9518a280fd43c5983f637a10895772@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <F8EFEF63-A951-4AF1-A409-438F7D54187B@audiobanshee.com>
 <9e1330630ec54fe89108c749a03a8bc3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1D9B5D2BAF03441F80F3332FB2E9F7AC@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <CA+9Xv9s+E5T9hAHZ_cmJ_aiMGpwgPOxRVfWMX1SgtiXd_2cLHg@mail.gmail.com>

Do let us know what you end up deciding on (and why!). It may help someone
looking to branch into adjacent areas.

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:40 AM Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi guys and girls,
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions with this on and off the list.  Some
> manufacturer's names are cropping up again and again.  Definitely got some
> good leads to look into.
>
> -Richie,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bryant
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:40 AM
> To: Brian Willoughby
> Cc: synth-diy mailing list
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
>
> > "Then drops like a stone" seems to imply a brick wall filter. Aren't
> those
> > expensive in analog implementations?
>
> Not really - the combination of capacitors on the input transistor bases,
> then on the feedback of every op-amp, then the final RC feeding the ADC
> are
> all set to around 80-100kHz in most designs so as to make sure there's no
> response at the bottom of the long-wave radio band.
>
> Just realised that the hyper-expensive AK4558 has a very extended
> frequency
> response in the slow roll-off mode so add that to the list, not that it's
> available at the moment due to the AKM fab fire.
>
> There's also quite a few 384kHz devices available now, though some seem to
> start a slow roll-off at around 48kHz.  Still plenty of response at 80kHz
> but definitely not flat.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Willoughby [mailto:brianw at audiobanshee.com]
> Sent: 30 April 2021 01:58
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy mailing list
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
>
> Thanks, Mike.
>
> "Then drops like a stone" seems to imply a brick wall filter. Aren't those
> expensive in analog implementations?
>
> On that note, if the AFE has a brick wall at 80 kHz, then it's not really
> relying on the ADC for the frequency response - at least the ADC isn't
> going
> to be able to be set to 384 kHz sample rate and change the frequency
> response much in that regard.
>
> ... not that we're talking about 384 kHz sampling - that would be crazy
> talk.
>
> Brian
>
> p.s. I'll mention that the Metric Halo Labs interfaces have DC response on
> the line level input path to the ADC. They don't maintain DC response on
> the
> mic preamp settings because of phantom power and other aspects of the
> microphone preamp stage. The Owners' Manual specifies a response of 1.8 Hz
> to 64.7 kHz +0/-1.0dB @ fs = 192 kHz. If you want tighter frequency
> response, it's 5.7 Hz to 42.1 kHz +0/-0.1dB at the same sample rate.
> 0.0005%
> THD @ -12 dBFS, 0.0015% THD @ -0 dBFS. I'm not sure which chips they're
> using, but it might be the AK4395.
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 17:15, Mike Bryant wrote:
> > Every mic preamp ADC I know of, including several I've designed myself
> > which I won't plug here, primarily rely on the ADC itself to set the
> > frequency response.  The AFE usually has a 3dB point of around 80kHz or
> > higher so as not to affect the overall phase response, then drops like a
> > stone to avoid any RF getting to the ADC.
> >
> > Also AKM and Cirrus ADCs seem to stick to a 40kHz bandwidth at 192kHz
> > sampling so it may only be ESS or custom equipped units that can do
> 80kHz.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 6:19 PM Mike Bryant wrote:
> >>
> >> Most high frequency sampling ADCs aren't good to 80kHz.  They have a
> much
> >> more relaxed roll-off to about 40kHz to avoid phase effects on the
> audio,
> >> then dive.  Probably best to look at the ADCs datasheets from AKM,
> Cirrus
> >> and Analog Devices and find an ADC that does what you want, then look
> for
> >> units that use that device.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Richie Burnett
> >> Sent: 29 April 2021 11:44
> >>
> >> Can anyone recommend a decent external USB audio interface that's
> capable
> >> of sampling at 192kHz in record and playback?
> >>
> >> This is a bit off topic, but it's still audio related! ;-)  Some of my
> >> colleagues do underwater acoustic communications work and have been
> using
> >> a "Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi HD 24-bit 96KHz USB Audio
> Interface"
> >> with great success to record and playback ultrasonic signals up to
> 44kHz.
> >> Now they are wanting to do similar up to around 80kHz so I'm looking
> for
> >> an external audio interface capable of sampling at 192kHz with an
> >> analogue bandwidth out to around 80kHz.
> >>
> >> The only application I'm aware of that requires this sort of analogue
> >> bandwidth is the delivery of composite FM stereo multiplex from studio
> to
> >> transmitter site over IP.  So, I know it is possible, but wanted to
> avoid
> >> buying lots of audio interfaces and testing them to see which are good
> to
> >> 80kHz!
> >>
> >> Any tips/pointers/experience good or bad would be much appreciated.
> >> Off-list is fine if high-bandwidth audio is not considered to be of
> >> interest to others.
> >>
> >> Many thanks in advance,
> >>
> >> -Richie,
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
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> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun May  2 18:32:29 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 12:32:29 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Read/write/save DS1630AB complete partitioned data to a PC
 file..
Message-ID: <002001d73f70$bf09da60$3d1d8f20$@oricom.ca>

Many diyers on this list gave me many tips to 

Replace a DS1630AB partitioned SRAM from my TDS350 scope

And I thank you all.

 

Now I?m struggling to find a programmer/reader that will 
be able to ?talk? to this device..

I already have a multi-programmer that works well for many devices
including micros and RAMS (standard RAMS) but does not
list the DS1630 in its supported devices..

I checked renowned programmers like Logical Devices
and even them don?t support this partitioned RAM IC.

If Anybody have a programmer name to suggest ?

That would help a lot !

 

JP

 

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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Sun May  2 18:45:23 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 09:45:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <306C804F-DEB1-44A2-A264-4A5BF83826BD@btinternet.com>
References: <3cc6e2a3-e4fa-88f4-e319-4d9a144005e7@gmx.com>
 <306C804F-DEB1-44A2-A264-4A5BF83826BD@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <05ffa45a-449b-a7cb-ff40-00e5aa9bb400@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

Interesting stuff Does this work OK for repairing key contacts? I have a 
DX21 with some dead keys and AFAIK the keybed consists of long rubber 
contact strips. I was thinking of trying a TV Remote Control Repair Kit.

On 5/2/2021 1:25 AM, Scott Young via Synth-diy wrote:
> Hi Neil,
> 
> A fun option is this stuff:
> 
> https://www.bareconductive.com/ <https://www.bareconductive.com/>
> 
> You can use it to replace the copper, and because it?s ink you can do 
> shapes for certain functions. ?You can do all sorts of stuff like screen 
> printing too with it if you want to get fancy.
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott.
> 
>> On 2 May 2021, at 00:38, Neil Harper via Synth-diy 
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:.
>>
>> next i'd like to figure out what materials i might be able to cover the
>> bare copper with and still have the touch signal show up good. it'd be
>> great to not see bare copper but have some printed legend or color coding.
>>
>> --
>> /// Neil Harper
>> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From quincas at gmail.com  Sun May  2 20:01:48 2021
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 13:01:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <05ffa45a-449b-a7cb-ff40-00e5aa9bb400@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <3cc6e2a3-e4fa-88f4-e319-4d9a144005e7@gmx.com>
 <306C804F-DEB1-44A2-A264-4A5BF83826BD@btinternet.com>
 <05ffa45a-449b-a7cb-ff40-00e5aa9bb400@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CA+u0Jt=skmciF=T0bhJYyrjfAXYzKYx6W3HZsu4Wtg6JzwTHxA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the simplest version, also my most popular video :)
Just two terminals, your finger's conductivity closes the circuit. More
pressure = skin area = less resistance.

https://youtu.be/DT6nZsixP0M

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 11:49 AM MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>
wrote:

> Interesting stuff Does this work OK for repairing key contacts? I have a
> DX21 with some dead keys and AFAIK the keybed consists of long rubber
> contact strips. I was thinking of trying a TV Remote Control Repair Kit.
>
> On 5/2/2021 1:25 AM, Scott Young via Synth-diy wrote:
> > Hi Neil,
> >
> > A fun option is this stuff:
> >
> > https://www.bareconductive.com/ <https://www.bareconductive.com/>
> >
> > You can use it to replace the copper, and because it?s ink you can do
> > shapes for certain functions.  You can do all sorts of stuff like screen
> > printing too with it if you want to get fancy.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Scott.
> >
> >> On 2 May 2021, at 00:38, Neil Harper via Synth-diy
> >> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:.
> >>
> >> next i'd like to figure out what materials i might be able to cover the
> >> bare copper with and still have the touch signal show up good. it'd be
> >> great to not see bare copper but have some printed legend or color
> coding.
> >>
> >> --
> >> /// Neil Harper
> >> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


-- 
[image: QMA]

Quincas Moreira
Director | QMA
mobile:  5534988825
site:  quincasmoreira.com
email:  quincas at gmail.com
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From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sun May  2 20:11:23 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 11:11:23 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
In-Reply-To: <35946E97-6A7D-4C8D-A44F-AE87D36B4BCA@ece.gatech.edu>
References: <5CD644741A404F64BD7EDA9FAC2587E7@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <CAAxOnzbQcpy-Ld=PXK1k5pLSue70VW1oOu4vs+2=E-U+Uzmq4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <35946E97-6A7D-4C8D-A44F-AE87D36B4BCA@ece.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <C108C91B-E90B-470B-BA5B-4668AE3690A9@audiobanshee.com>



On Apr 29, 2021, at 22:54, Lanterman, Aaron D wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Andrew Simper <andy at cytomic.com> wrote:
>> I recommend grabbing one from RME, I know people that use them for underwater acoustics at 192 kHz and are happy with them.
> 
> Aside from sample rates ? I have to say RME is really impressive in terms of long-term support. They?re still providing updated drivers for my Fireface 800 ? and that?s a 16 year old box!!!! I?m rocking native Apple silicon drivers on my M1 MacBook Air and it?s rock solid. (And for that matter, it?s always been rock solid).
> 
> - Aaron

Metric Halo Labs also have excellent long-term support. Literally every model they've released can be upgraded to the current 3d ethernet+USB protocols. Their first interface came out in 2001, so that's two decades of support. Nobody left behind. The only thing you can't upgrade is the maximum sample rate. Thus, the 96 kHz models will always be limited to 96 kHz max, in all other respects you can upgrade to the latest quality that's in the 192 kHz models. I have some interfaces still on the FireWire standard, and they work with Apple's Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter cable. The 3d models work with standard ethernet, and have single-sample latency over ethernet (much better than Dante 5 ms or 10 ms latency) which is great for building large channel count studios.

Brian




From jason at redfish.net  Sun May  2 20:22:20 2021
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 11:22:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Decent 192kHz USB audio-interface
In-Reply-To: <C108C91B-E90B-470B-BA5B-4668AE3690A9@audiobanshee.com>
References: <5CD644741A404F64BD7EDA9FAC2587E7@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <CAAxOnzbQcpy-Ld=PXK1k5pLSue70VW1oOu4vs+2=E-U+Uzmq4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <35946E97-6A7D-4C8D-A44F-AE87D36B4BCA@ece.gatech.edu>
 <C108C91B-E90B-470B-BA5B-4668AE3690A9@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <CALQanAJi5rqPd5TEoe5SOCU8kDtmP9UcTpS6wcengfJd7fsfYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 11:16 AM Brian Willoughby
<brianw at audiobanshee.com> wrote:
>
> Metric Halo Labs also have excellent long-term support. Literally every model they've released can be upgraded to the current 3d ethernet+USB protocols. Their first interface came out in 2001, so that's two decades of support. Nobody left behind. The only thing you can't upgrade is the maximum sample rate. Thus, the 96 kHz models will always be limited to 96 kHz max, in all other respects you can upgrade to the latest quality that's in the 192 kHz models. I have some interfaces still on the FireWire standard, and they work with Apple's Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter cable. The 3d models work with standard ethernet, and have single-sample latency over ethernet (much better than Dante 5 ms or 10 ms latency) which is great for building large channel count studios.
>

Even though my UA X8 is a wicked piece of gear, I miss the bulletproof
no-nonsense robustness of my FF800 and the excellent TotalMix. If I
was going for an audio interface again, it would be a choice only
between RME and Metric Halo.

(my FF was very solid up to 96k for the time I was experimenting
there, but I never went to 192k even though the hardware supported it.
And the box was still reliable even via Tb -> Fw)



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sun May  2 22:49:57 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 16:49:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Read/write/save DS1630AB complete partitioned data to a
 PC file.. found a solution..
Message-ID: <004001d73f94$b6e6fce0$24b4f6a0$@oricom.ca>

Since the DS1630 seems to be hard to read/write/save
on a specific programmer (can?t find one),

Here is what I?ll do :

 

?         Remove the ?about to die? DS1630AB from my TDS350 scope

?         Read it in my programmer as a standard 32k x 8 SRAM using part# DS1230 instead

?         Save the complete device data to my PC

?         Verify each of the 16 x 2K chunks that are read-only by trying to write to each of them and note them on paper

?         Put aside the original DS1630AB

?         Install another DS1630AB which has been dremeled (and has an external 3V lithium battery) to the programmer

?         Program it with the just saved 32k x 8 data (all bytes write enable here)

?         Disconnect it from the programmer (external 3V battery always connected)

?         Connect it to a small home made Microchip PIC based adapter that will program the 16 x 2k chunks

With the same read-only setup as the original one untouching the data itself.

?         Disconnect it then connect it back to my programmer still using DS1230 part# instead

?         Compare the data with the saved PC data

?         Test each 2k chunks and verify their read_only setup from the original one.

?         If everything compare I have a good DS1630AB (with external 3V Battery) to use in the TDS350 scope

 

 

That?s it.

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Envoy? : 2 mai 2021 12:32
? : 'synth-diy mailing list'
Objet : [sdiy] Read/write/save DS1630AB complete partitioned data to a PC file..

 

Many diyers on this list gave me many tips to 

Replace a DS1630AB partitioned SRAM from my TDS350 scope

And I thank you all.

 

Now I?m struggling to find a programmer/reader that will 
be able to ?talk? to this device..

I already have a multi-programmer that works well for many devices
including micros and RAMS (standard RAMS) but does not
list the DS1630 in its supported devices..

I checked renowned programmers like Logical Devices
and even them don?t support this partitioned RAM IC.

If Anybody have a programmer name to suggest ?

That would help a lot !

 

JP

 

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From modular at go2.pl  Sun May  2 23:12:56 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 23:12:56 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Read/write/save DS1630AB complete partitioned data to a
 PC file..
In-Reply-To: <002001d73f70$bf09da60$3d1d8f20$@oricom.ca>
References: <002001d73f70$bf09da60$3d1d8f20$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <3af7107e-0eab-1041-ce12-8816dd8dbed6@go2.pl>

Maybe you don't have to look for special programmer.
First of all you have to read the old one anyway. And you don't need any 
special programmer for reading, it can be read as regular 62256.

If you run 20 read cycles with any programmer, each process reading just 
one byte, and changing address of each pass according to Partition Table 
Access Pattern, then you can disable write protect for all partitions, 
and then copy the content of original memory to new one. Now put the 
original memory in the programmer, to check which partitions were 
write-protected. To do so program entire RAM with FF and read it back - 
it will be easy to tell which partitions are protected and which not by 
looking into read data. Do the same again writing all 00s, in case some 
partitions were protected, but had all FF anyway. Then put new RAM back 
in the programmer, and repeat that 20-cycles partition access procedure, 
followed by 4 reds that will set proper partition bits.

This is tedious process and a lot of hassle. Maybe it would be easier if 
you prepared HEX programmer file with 24 bytes at the addresses forming 
that access pattern, and then connect the RAM to programmer via 
additional socket, where WR pin is tied high, and CS pin is routed to 
pin 27 of the programmer (in case the programmer does not pulse CS 
during writes but holds it low and pulses WR only). Then run "write file 
to RAM" and it will actually disable all write protects. Then you can 
put the RAM in programmer's socket direclty, and write the file read 
from copied original. Then again put new chip to rewired socket, and 
write another 24-byte file, modified accordingly to findings which 
partitions need to be protected, and protect them.

Another option is to plug your original RAM into socket, apply 5V power 
to the socket and then dremel it to access battery wires while it's 
powered. No programmer needed at all then. But even in this scenario, it 
is worth, or should I say essential, to read entire RAM to a file before 
starting in case anything happens.

Roman


W dniu 2021-05-02 o?18:32, Jean-Pierre Desrochers pisze:
>
> Many diyers on this list gave me many tips to
>
> Replace a DS1630AB partitioned SRAM from my TDS350 scope
>
> And I thank you all.
>
> Now I?m struggling to find a programmer/reader that will
> be able to ?talk? to this device..
>
> I already have a multi-programmer that works well for many devices
> including micros and RAMS (standard RAMS) but does not
> list the DS1630 in its supported devices..
>
> I checked renowned programmers like Logical Devices
> and even them don?t support this partitioned RAM IC.
>
> If Anybody have a programmer name to suggest ?
>
> That would help a lot !
>
> JP
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From nathan at idmclassics.net  Sun May  2 23:52:30 2021
From: nathan at idmclassics.net (Nathan Trites)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 17:52:30 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vox Continental key noise
In-Reply-To: <3066139E-D035-473D-B01C-EADAFD476026@adambaby.com>
References: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHy3N6Az2Ht85AGP-m+qMM73f5_JCkfaDZg5chkrksoV_53X4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <3066139E-D035-473D-B01C-EADAFD476026@adambaby.com>
Message-ID: <CAHy3N6DXaBo4xvL0pLOj7wg9BB4_rSPuuL+pYfZoOYAmCBsJDg@mail.gmail.com>

got it! The ground wire to one of the resistor networks was literally
hanging by a thread. Had a coffee and started measuring different ground
connections, got to this one and it broke free with the lightest tug. Must
have been from all the movement on the tone board bracket. Photo:
https://i.imgur.com/zgwqo2b.jpg

As Michael mentioned there is some general mechanical noise that's
inoffensive in a band setting, comparable to most other switch on an audio
signal.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Nathan

On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 7:10 PM Adam Inglis (synthDIY) <synthdiy at adambaby.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 2 May 2021, at 1:32 am, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks. That?s another thing I wondered about - to what extent do they
> click/pop under normal conditions.
>
>  I know it won?t be perfect but the noise is significantly louder than the
> tones, sounds just this video but on every key
> https://youtu.be/NnwJZt3TifI
>
>
>
> I agree, that low frequency thump heard there is not just key click. And
> you?re getting that on all keys?
> At least it looks a bit easier to work on than my old Farfisa!!
> https://mezzoauto.blogspot.com/2019/05/farfisa-compact.html
>
> You seem to have addressed all the things I did in fixing mine - which
> essentailly got down mainly to replacing 50 year old electrolytics.
> Obviously, you need to see if the supply voltage is sagging with key
> presses, it might need some attention?
>
> good luck and keep us informed!
> A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I?ll have time to dig in more tomorrow.
>
> Nathan
>
> On Saturday, May 1, 2021, Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think you can eliminate the noise.  Vox combo organs are cheap
>> designs, the contact noise is DC transients when the contacts mate.
>> In an isolated setting you may notice the contact noise, while in a
>> band setting it will be masked out by all the other instruments.
>>
>> Don't expect these to be high fidelity.
>>
>> MC
>>
>> On 4/30/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I've got a continental v301e here where I'm getting a nasty contact
>> noise
>> > on all keys, which varies in level (seemingly due to where the waveform
>> > falls). It's definitely not just dirty bus bars & j wires, which have
>> been
>> > cleaned pretty aggressively. Most of the finger connections seem good,
>> all
>> > electrolytics replaced, and a few of the (film?) caps replaced for being
>> > open.
>> >
>> > With all tone boards in, each bus has an offset of low double digit
>> > millivolts. With a single tone board in it still occurs with an offset
>> in
>> > the single digit mV and it still happens. I've replaced coupling caps
>> in a
>> > few and they still have noise.  I can see the spikes on the scope even
>> > without the preamp board installed. Would such a small offset cause
>> popping
>> > like that on the switches?
>> >
>> > The continental is a fair bit older than gear I'm used to working on so
>> I'm
>> > still getting my bearings on the construction and haven't checked this
>> yet,
>> > but I suspect the ground from the draw bars or going to the tone boards
>> > needs to be looked at closer.  I do get some very low noise on the power
>> > supply (even with nothing installed) again in the 10s of mV range p-p.
>> >
>> > Schematics can be found here:
>> > http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html
>> >
>> > Any guidance or advice would be appreciated! If anyone knows of a good
>> > transistor organ repair forum or list that would be very helpful too.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Nathan
>> >
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
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From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Mon May  3 01:48:23 2021
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 19:48:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <FD0C1946-F36A-4E63-8CBD-5E745E3FF71D@me.com>
References: <53afe90e-22b8-2567-a3f2-d61fa8a3813e@gmx.com>
 <741dbc0c-dccc-c43f-0dac-4cf2ddc794ec@yahoo.com>
 <FD0C1946-F36A-4E63-8CBD-5E745E3FF71D@me.com>
Message-ID: <CB59E4B2-2C5F-4EEC-97B0-95946CE25686@gmail.com>


> On Apr 27, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Touch switches are easy to implement but can malfunction. I think Simonton used the same kind of CMOS touch switch you would see in a radio shack book. They usually rely upon AC hum to activate, so might not work well in a Faraday?s cage.
> I had the old Oberheim OB-1 with touch switches. It worked very well. 
> These days you only see them in things like lamps.

How about a cold cathode thyratron (that just happens the be a lamp as well)?

http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084 <http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084>


The english translation of the datasheet describes it as "Intended for working with low signals and like a [sic] ionic relay.":

https://www.gstube.com/data/2119/ <https://www.gstube.com/data/2119/>


Of tangental interest, here's a mains powered clock that uses them in the ring counters:

https://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/neonclock2/


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com/

?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980


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From btremblay at me.com  Mon May  3 03:08:43 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 21:08:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <CB59E4B2-2C5F-4EEC-97B0-95946CE25686@gmail.com>
References: <53afe90e-22b8-2567-a3f2-d61fa8a3813e@gmx.com>
 <741dbc0c-dccc-c43f-0dac-4cf2ddc794ec@yahoo.com>
 <FD0C1946-F36A-4E63-8CBD-5E745E3FF71D@me.com>
 <CB59E4B2-2C5F-4EEC-97B0-95946CE25686@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2384237E-4B66-4003-BDD0-894656E00EFC@me.com>

I eat my crow.
I should try that touch switch feature in my teensy.


> On May 2, 2021, at 7:48 PM, KA4HJH via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Apr 27, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Touch switches are easy to implement but can malfunction. I think Simonton used the same kind of CMOS touch switch you would see in a radio shack book. They usually rely upon AC hum to activate, so might not work well in a Faraday?s cage.
>> I had the old Oberheim OB-1 with touch switches. It worked very well. 
>> These days you only see them in things like lamps.
> 
> How about a cold cathode thyratron (that just happens the be a lamp as well)?
> 
> http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084 <http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084>
> 
> 
> The english translation of the datasheet describes it as "Intended for working with low signals and like a [sic] ionic relay.":
> 
> https://www.gstube.com/data/2119/ <https://www.gstube.com/data/2119/>
> 
> 
> Of tangental interest, here's a mains powered clock that uses them in the ring counters:
> 
> https://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/neonclock2/ <https://www.pa3fwm.nl/projects/neonclock2/>
> 
> 
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
> 
> https://www.astarcloseup.com/ <https://www.astarcloseup.com/>
> 
> ?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Mon May  3 05:31:15 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 23:31:15 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Vox Continental key noise
In-Reply-To: <CAHy3N6DXaBo4xvL0pLOj7wg9BB4_rSPuuL+pYfZoOYAmCBsJDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHy3N6DEf5kCYSUcez3AGv9i_Viz2RJB7gAS0VvpKifuN6cAvQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UBk_s42-Gs+VkWGmVCXi2TfxKx7F8CZuNqpvU22GwzA-A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHy3N6Az2Ht85AGP-m+qMM73f5_JCkfaDZg5chkrksoV_53X4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <3066139E-D035-473D-B01C-EADAFD476026@adambaby.com>
 <CAHy3N6DXaBo4xvL0pLOj7wg9BB4_rSPuuL+pYfZoOYAmCBsJDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBWUX=0cKBtjDHjO2njkWKaL3eibcB0+1ii4U6-H5_LQA@mail.gmail.com>

Glad you found it.  Had a strong suspicion it was a ground problem.

MC

On 5/2/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
> got it! The ground wire to one of the resistor networks was literally
> hanging by a thread. Had a coffee and started measuring different ground
> connections, got to this one and it broke free with the lightest tug. Must
> have been from all the movement on the tone board bracket. Photo:
> https://i.imgur.com/zgwqo2b.jpg
>
> As Michael mentioned there is some general mechanical noise that's
> inoffensive in a band setting, comparable to most other switch on an audio
> signal.
>
> Thanks for the encouragement!
>
> Nathan
>
> On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 7:10 PM Adam Inglis (synthDIY)
> <synthdiy at adambaby.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 2 May 2021, at 1:32 am, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. That?s another thing I wondered about - to what extent do they
>> click/pop under normal conditions.
>>
>>  I know it won?t be perfect but the noise is significantly louder than
>> the
>> tones, sounds just this video but on every key
>> https://youtu.be/NnwJZt3TifI
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, that low frequency thump heard there is not just key click. And
>> you?re getting that on all keys?
>> At least it looks a bit easier to work on than my old Farfisa!!
>> https://mezzoauto.blogspot.com/2019/05/farfisa-compact.html
>>
>> You seem to have addressed all the things I did in fixing mine - which
>> essentailly got down mainly to replacing 50 year old electrolytics.
>> Obviously, you need to see if the supply voltage is sagging with key
>> presses, it might need some attention?
>>
>> good luck and keep us informed!
>> A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ll have time to dig in more tomorrow.
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> On Saturday, May 1, 2021, Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think you can eliminate the noise.  Vox combo organs are cheap
>>> designs, the contact noise is DC transients when the contacts mate.
>>> In an isolated setting you may notice the contact noise, while in a
>>> band setting it will be masked out by all the other instruments.
>>>
>>> Don't expect these to be high fidelity.
>>>
>>> MC
>>>
>>> On 4/30/21, Nathan Trites <nathan at idmclassics.net> wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I've got a continental v301e here where I'm getting a nasty contact
>>> noise
>>> > on all keys, which varies in level (seemingly due to where the
>>> > waveform
>>> > falls). It's definitely not just dirty bus bars & j wires, which have
>>> been
>>> > cleaned pretty aggressively. Most of the finger connections seem good,
>>> all
>>> > electrolytics replaced, and a few of the (film?) caps replaced for
>>> > being
>>> > open.
>>> >
>>> > With all tone boards in, each bus has an offset of low double digit
>>> > millivolts. With a single tone board in it still occurs with an offset
>>> in
>>> > the single digit mV and it still happens. I've replaced coupling caps
>>> in a
>>> > few and they still have noise.  I can see the spikes on the scope even
>>> > without the preamp board installed. Would such a small offset cause
>>> popping
>>> > like that on the switches?
>>> >
>>> > The continental is a fair bit older than gear I'm used to working on
>>> > so
>>> I'm
>>> > still getting my bearings on the construction and haven't checked this
>>> yet,
>>> > but I suspect the ground from the draw bars or going to the tone
>>> > boards
>>> > needs to be looked at closer.  I do get some very low noise on the
>>> > power
>>> > supply (even with nothing installed) again in the 10s of mV range p-p.
>>> >
>>> > Schematics can be found here:
>>> > http://www.theamericannight.com/voxproject/project.html
>>> >
>>> > Any guidance or advice would be appreciated! If anyone knows of a good
>>> > transistor organ repair forum or list that would be very helpful too.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Nathan
>>> >
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
>>
>



From thebot at btinternet.com  Mon May  3 09:22:13 2021
From: thebot at btinternet.com (Scott Young)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 08:22:13 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
Message-ID: <1A816221-18E5-42F9-8284-5963F3DD7512@btinternet.com>

?I think it would work, my only worry would be does it work long term?  My understanding (maybe incorrect!) is that it loses its conductivity after a while, so you?d have to keep touching it up?  But I think there?s steps you can take to stop that happening maybe?

I?ve only used it for fun stuff, never anything permanent!



Sent from my iPhone
> On 2 May 2021, at 17:47, MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Interesting stuff Does this work OK for repairing key contacts? I have a DX21 with some dead keys and AFAIK the keybed consists of long rubber contact strips. I was thinking of trying a TV Remote Control Repair Kit.




From thebot at btinternet.com  Mon May  3 21:17:53 2021
From: thebot at btinternet.com (Scott Young)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 20:17:53 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
Message-ID: <DAA09FE9-30A8-4275-A79F-9D20FC721ADE@btinternet.com>

?I think it would work, my only worry would be does it work long term?  My understanding (maybe incorrect!) is that it loses its conductivity after a while, so you?d have to keep touching it up?  But I think there?s steps you can take to stop that happening maybe?

I?ve only used it for fun stuff, never anything permanent!

> On 2 May 2021, at 17:47, MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
?Interesting stuff Does this work OK for repairing key contacts? I have a DX21 with some dead keys and AFAIK the keybed consists of long rubber contact strips. I was thinking of trying a TV Remote Control Repair Kit. 
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From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Mon May  3 22:14:19 2021
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (KA4HJH)
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 16:14:19 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <2384237E-4B66-4003-BDD0-894656E00EFC@me.com>
References: <53afe90e-22b8-2567-a3f2-d61fa8a3813e@gmx.com>
 <741dbc0c-dccc-c43f-0dac-4cf2ddc794ec@yahoo.com>
 <FD0C1946-F36A-4E63-8CBD-5E745E3FF71D@me.com>
 <CB59E4B2-2C5F-4EEC-97B0-95946CE25686@gmail.com>
 <2384237E-4B66-4003-BDD0-894656E00EFC@me.com>
Message-ID: <2762ED87-1D9A-4F16-A8A5-BCD1FEDB9226@gmail.com>


> On May 2, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Benjamin Tremblay <btremblay at me.com> wrote:
> 
> I eat my crow.
> I should try that touch switch feature in my teensy.
> 
> 
>> On May 2, 2021, at 7:48 PM, KA4HJH via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> How about a cold cathode thyratron (that just happens the be a lamp as well)?
>> 
>> http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084 <http://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1084>


Here's an inexpensive MTX-90 toy you can play around with (no assembly required)?cute "control modules" with five touch-sensitive pads:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133725689779

Note that this is one of several variants available (white/gray panels, clear/orange lenses). Search the same category for "MTX-90". The orange lenses are cool but clear lenses will be brighter when lit.


Based on generic circuits for other cold cathode devices in old Russian data books, I'm guessing that the power supply was half-wave rectified 220V AC . There are a number of schematics online for real-world applications of the MTX-90, none of them as simple as this particular do-dad and/or "proper". I haven't puzzled it out yet as I'm waiting for someone in the neonixe-l group to hook one up and report back.


They came from out of nowhere. Several listings appeared on eBay over a few days. No one had ever seen them before and what the intended use was is still a mystery. And the asking prices have gone up since I haggled down two sellers.

There's a ton of surplus Soviet electronic parts on eBay, mostly from Ukraine. All of the cool stuff?Geiger-Mueller tubes, Nixies, Dekatrons, etc.?is steadily rising in price. I've missed out on some excellent investment opportunities in just the last two years. The Nixie clock craze has gotten steadily crazier. 

If you any B7971s lying around take good care of them.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com/

?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980


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From francesco.mulassano at gmail.com  Tue May  4 00:37:37 2021
From: francesco.mulassano at gmail.com (francesco mulassano)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 00:37:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Electronotes Check list
In-Reply-To: <CA+R=RzDN57-hEshsaH6Jc7bNNM08OGfcpZSTj+gqnT_7P7QW8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY5PR04MB6584ECF06912DD685BA7E612BC469@BY5PR04MB6584.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <CA+R=RzDN57-hEshsaH6Jc7bNNM08OGfcpZSTj+gqnT_7P7QW8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+R=RzAEGTSuTpOPOpoFFDWifN=o2XtRZgBL9SFfPTcb=+ffpA@mail.gmail.com>

My video about the Electronotes is finally online!
It's in Italian!! If you like it, please subscribe the Soundmit Youtube
Channel
www.soundmit.com/youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VTFzVDgYAQ&t=10s



Il giorno ven 23 apr 2021 alle ore 09:56 francesco mulassano <
francesco.mulassano at gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Thank you!
> thanks for the clarification
>
> Francesco
>
> Il giorno gio 22 apr 2021 alle ore 22:53 Bernard Arthur Hutchins, Jr via
> Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> ha scritto:
>
>>
>>
>> francesco wrote* Apr 22 09:51:55 CEST 2021*
>>
>>
>>
>> ?I wrote to Bernie but unfortunately he didn't answer me.?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry you had to wait 4 whole days for a reply !
>>
>>
>>
>> What you seem to have received from a third party seems complete, but not
>> my responsibility anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> Other items you describe as missing are posted free on our site, or are
>> not even listed there (indicating likely no one ? not even me ? has them).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Bernie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May  4 14:56:45 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 13:56:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] AS3350 vs CEM3350
Message-ID: <AED55FC3-AF40-42BA-9DD3-E3645220764A@electricdruid.net>

Does anyone have any experience with using the AS3350 as a replacement for the CEM3350? Or experience with the Rhodes Chroma?s calibration routines?

I?ve got a customer who?s trying to fix a Rhodes Chroma, replacing dead CEM3350s with AS3350s. The synth doesn?t like the AS chips and won?t calibrate the voices with them in. The CEM voices calibrate ok. Switching the chips around, the problem follows the chips.

It looks like there?s some difference in scale or response between the AS and the CEM, and the Chroma doesn?t have a wide enough calibration to be able to calibrate it out.

Any pointers gratefully received.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================






From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Tue May  4 15:13:41 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 13:13:41 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] AS3350 vs CEM3350
In-Reply-To: <AED55FC3-AF40-42BA-9DD3-E3645220764A@electricdruid.net>
References: <AED55FC3-AF40-42BA-9DD3-E3645220764A@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <b5fa9e42c8904c5693fa96365b7a6f53@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

There's a few resistors that need values changing.  Google on MuggWiggler for the actual values

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 04 May 2021 13:57
To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: [sdiy] AS3350 vs CEM3350

Does anyone have any experience with using the AS3350 as a replacement for the CEM3350? Or experience with the Rhodes Chroma?s calibration routines?

I?ve got a customer who?s trying to fix a Rhodes Chroma, replacing dead CEM3350s with AS3350s. The synth doesn?t like the AS chips and won?t calibrate the voices with them in. The CEM voices calibrate ok. Switching the chips around, the problem follows the chips.

It looks like there?s some difference in scale or response between the AS and the CEM, and the Chroma doesn?t have a wide enough calibration to be able to calibrate it out.

Any pointers gratefully received.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================




_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May  5 11:16:48 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 10:16:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
Message-ID: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>

Hi all,

The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.

The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.

Now, my question is this:

If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?

It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================


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From guy.mccusker at gmail.com  Wed May  5 11:42:31 2021
From: guy.mccusker at gmail.com (Guy McCusker)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 10:42:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, it will have an impact, though the circuit is already not perfect
because the input impedances to the + and - terminals are different anyway.

There's a bit of discussion on this in the Analog Devices Linear Circuit
Design Handbook, chapter 2.3 where they are advocating/ trying to sell you
an instrumentation amp...
https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Basic-Linear-Design/Chapter2.pdf




On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 10:18 AM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC
> on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output
> to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea,
> seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is
> reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
>
> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown
> attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>
> Now, my question is this:
>
> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K,
> say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
>
> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a
> different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May  5 11:51:02 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 10:51:02 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8DD834B-589A-4842-8035-EBA1A437CF03@electricdruid.net>

Thanks Guy.

It seems to me like given the noisy environment the DAC works in (on-chip with a processor) anything that can improve the common-mode noise rejection of the DAC outputs would be an improvement, and might be a significant improvement.

I?ll have a look at that Analog link.

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 5 May 2021, at 10:42, Guy McCusker <guy.mccusker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, it will have an impact, though the circuit is already not perfect because the input impedances to the + and - terminals are different anyway. 
> 
> There's a bit of discussion on this in the Analog Devices Linear Circuit Design Handbook, chapter 2.3 where they are advocating/ trying to sell you an instrumentation amp... https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Basic-Linear-Design/Chapter2.pdf <https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Basic-Linear-Design/Chapter2.pdf>
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 10:18 AM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
> 
> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
> 
> Now, my question is this:
> 
> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
> 
> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom
> 
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May  5 12:11:37 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 10:11:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <f979c77b2bab4138828e3f7d2f582e86@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.



From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 05 May 2021 10:17
To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

Hi all,

The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.

The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.

Now, my question is this:

If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?

It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================
[cid:image002.png at 01D7419C.66312780]


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From tom at electricdruid.net  Wed May  5 12:17:14 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 11:17:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <f979c77b2bab4138828e3f7d2f582e86@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <f979c77b2bab4138828e3f7d2f582e86@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <46E84FA4-D4FA-4BE1-9E00-1B8BB7EAB711@electricdruid.net>

The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what they recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!

Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.


> On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.
>  
>  
>  
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: 05 May 2021 10:17
> To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
> Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>  
> Hi all,
>  
> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
>  
> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>  
> Now, my question is this:
>  
> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
>  
> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>  
> Thanks,
> Tom
>  
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
> <image002.png>

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May  5 12:30:58 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 10:30:58 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <46E84FA4-D4FA-4BE1-9E00-1B8BB7EAB711@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <f979c77b2bab4138828e3f7d2f582e86@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <46E84FA4-D4FA-4BE1-9E00-1B8BB7EAB711@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <0733952f1d2244f8b08610296d0c100d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Small Signal Audio Design (I have Second Edition so it may have moved chapter)

From: Tom Wiltshire [mailto:tom at electricdruid.net]
Sent: 05 May 2021 11:17
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what they recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!

Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.



On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com<mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:

You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.



From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 05 May 2021 10:17
To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

Hi all,

The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.

The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.

Now, my question is this:

If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?

It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================
<image002.png>

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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Wed May  5 13:30:00 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 12:30:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <0733952f1d2244f8b08610296d0c100d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <f979c77b2bab4138828e3f7d2f582e86@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <46E84FA4-D4FA-4BE1-9E00-1B8BB7EAB711@electricdruid.net>
 <0733952f1d2244f8b08610296d0c100d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJN-sEQ2TtdudaP5J8uWRxxKqggtK8LD+mqPDDMfzJ25w@mail.gmail.com>

It's still chapter 26 in the third edition.  Also read through the first
half of chapter 18 on line inputs.

Neil


On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:34, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:

> Small Signal Audio Design (I have Second Edition so it may have moved
> chapter)
>
>
>
> *From:* Tom Wiltshire [mailto:tom at electricdruid.net]
> *Sent:* 05 May 2021 11:17
> *To:* Mike Bryant
> *Cc:* synth-diy francesco mulassano via
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
> 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>
>
>
> The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what they
> recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!
>
>
>
> Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best
> performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
> <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] *On Behalf Of *Tom Wiltshire
> *Sent:* 05 May 2021 10:17
> *To:* synth-diy francesco mulassano via
> *Subject:* [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
> 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC
> on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output
> to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea,
> seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is
> reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
>
>
>
> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown
> attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>
>
>
> Now, my question is this:
>
>
>
> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K,
> say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
>
>
>
> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a
> different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
> <image002.png>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From ulfurh at gmail.com  Wed May  5 14:24:25 2021
From: ulfurh at gmail.com (ulfur hansson)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 12:24:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJN-sEQ2TtdudaP5J8uWRxxKqggtK8LD+mqPDDMfzJ25w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJN-sEQ2TtdudaP5J8uWRxxKqggtK8LD+mqPDDMfzJ25w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57249460-4FCB-4C1A-9442-84531FCCFF5E@gmail.com>

slightly OT, has anyone successfully built the FET compressor douglas describes?

sent from outer space

> On 5 May 2021, at 11:32, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It's still chapter 26 in the third edition.  Also read through the first half of chapter 18 on line inputs.
> 
> Neil
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:34, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> Small Signal Audio Design (I have Second Edition so it may have moved chapter)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Tom Wiltshire [mailto:tom at electricdruid.net] 
>> Sent: 05 May 2021 11:17
>> To: Mike Bryant
>> Cc: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what they recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
>> Sent: 05 May 2021 10:17
>> To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
>> Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Now, my question is this:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ==================
>>        Electric Druid
>> Synth & Stompbox DIY
>> ==================
>> 
>> <image002.png>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May  5 17:37:16 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 15:37:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <57249460-4FCB-4C1A-9442-84531FCCFF5E@gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJN-sEQ2TtdudaP5J8uWRxxKqggtK8LD+mqPDDMfzJ25w@mail.gmail.com>
 <57249460-4FCB-4C1A-9442-84531FCCFF5E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <358df10fc8004af0af0d58781a2b1da0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Can?t find that in the second edition, but as he points out at the start of the chapter a single FET isn?t the best of things to attenuate a signal with.


From: ulfur hansson [mailto:ulfurh at gmail.com]
Sent: 05 May 2021 13:24
To: Neil Johnson
Cc: Mike Bryant; synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

slightly OT, has anyone successfully built the FET compressor douglas describes?
sent from outer space


On 5 May 2021, at 11:32, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
?
It's still chapter 26 in the third edition.  Also read through the first half of chapter 18 on line inputs.

Neil


On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:34, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com<mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:
Small Signal Audio Design (I have Second Edition so it may have moved chapter)

From: Tom Wiltshire [mailto:tom at electricdruid.net<mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>]
Sent: 05 May 2021 11:17
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what they recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!

Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.


On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com<mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:

You probably want to use something a little more complicated for the best performance.  Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter 26 of his book.



From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 05 May 2021 10:17
To: synth-diy francesco mulassano via
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC

Hi all,

The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.

The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.

Now, my question is this:

If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?

It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.

Thanks,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================
<image002.png>

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Wed May  5 17:46:05 2021
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 16:46:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <57249460-4FCB-4C1A-9442-84531FCCFF5E@gmail.com>
References: <CACZGMxJN-sEQ2TtdudaP5J8uWRxxKqggtK8LD+mqPDDMfzJ25w@mail.gmail.com>
 <57249460-4FCB-4C1A-9442-84531FCCFF5E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea9fb644-8183-c832-3a3c-c12fcada1da0@bugbrand.co.uk>

There's also a full chapter on a FET compressor design in another of his 
books 'Self on Audio' (Chapter 10, if I remember right)

I didn't realise there was a 3rd edition of Small Signal Audio.. Great book!

On 05/05/2021 13:24, ulfur hansson via Synth-diy wrote:
> slightly OT, has anyone successfully built the FET compressor douglas 
> describes?
>
> sent from outer space
>
>> On 5 May 2021, at 11:32, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy 
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> It's still chapter 26 in the third edition.? Also read through the 
>> first half of chapter 18 on line inputs.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 5 May 2021 at 11:34, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com 
>> <mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Small Signal Audio Design (I have Second Edition so it may have
>>     moved chapter)
>>
>>     *From:*Tom Wiltshire [mailto:tom at electricdruid.net
>>     <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>]
>>     *Sent:* 05 May 2021 11:17
>>     *To:* Mike Bryant
>>     *Cc:* synth-diy francesco mulassano via
>>     *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in
>>     dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>>
>>     The circuit is straight out of Microchip?s datasheet and is what
>>     they recommend. But that?s not to say that it can?t be improved!
>>
>>     Which Douglas Self book did you mean? He?s written a few.
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 5 May 2021, at 11:11, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com
>>     <mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     You probably want to use something a little more complicated for
>>     the best performance.? Douglas Self covers this well in Chapter
>>     26 of his book.
>>
>>     *From:*Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
>>     <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>]*On Behalf Of*Tom Wiltshire
>>     *Sent:*05 May 2021 10:17
>>     *To:*synth-diy francesco mulassano via
>>     *Subject:*[sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in
>>     dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
>>
>>     Hi all,
>>
>>     The?dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a
>>     16-bit DAC on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as
>>     a differential output to help cancel any noise generated by the
>>     uP internally. NOt a bad idea, seeing as that is probably
>>     inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is reasonably noisy
>>     and not suitable for all applications.
>>
>>     The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is
>>     shown attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>>
>>     Now, my question is this:
>>
>>     If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8
>>     (to 47K, say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties
>>     of the diff amp?
>>
>>     It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has
>>     a different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Tom
>>
>>     ==================
>>     ? ? ? ?Electric Druid
>>     Synth & Stompbox DIY
>>     ==================
>>
>>     <image002.png>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Synth-diy mailing list
>>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>     <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
>>     Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>     <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

-- 
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VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
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BRISTOL BS1 3SB
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From brazil.v at gmail.com  Wed May  5 18:10:20 2021
From: brazil.v at gmail.com (Vinicius Brazil)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 13:10:20 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAF7fC2BHHxd7=iMi+QuHHvaSD3UgJfgq+yK0avQFM6-BF36LZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,
I tried several schemes with 802 but unfortunately I did not reach a
satisfactory result in DAC, considering that it is 16 bits. If it reached a
noise ratio of around 12 ~ 13 bits, it would already suit my application.
And the worst thing is that I have more than 100 parts in stock waiting for
a solution to the problem.
I will test your suggestion, thanks.

Vinicius Brazil
www.vbrazilsystems.com

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Livre
de v?rus. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>.
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 6:20 AM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The dsPIC 33FJ128GP802 uP (and others in the family) includes a 16-bit DAC
> on the chip. The outputs from the DAC are provided as a differential output
> to help cancel any noise generated by the uP internally. NOt a bad idea,
> seeing as that is probably inevitable. Despite this precaution, the DAC is
> reasonably noisy and not suitable for all applications.
>
> The example circuit for combining the differential outputs is shown
> attached - a simple diff amp with 10K resistors everywhere.
>
> Now, my question is this:
>
> If I change the gain of the differential amp by increasing R6/R8 (to 47K,
> say) does this affect the noise cancellation properties of the diff amp?
>
> It seems to me that it might, because the positive input now has a
> different proportion of signal going to it than the negative input.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From igg.debus at gmail.com  Wed May  5 21:13:03 2021
From: igg.debus at gmail.com (Ingo Debus)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 21:13:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>


> Am 05.05.2021 um 11:42 schrieb Guy McCusker via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> 
> though the circuit is already not perfect because the input impedances to the + and - terminals are different anyway. 

You mean the input impedances of the complete circuit with respect to ground? These are equal.
As long as the feedback works properly, both the inverting and the noninverting input of the opamp are at the same voltage. Since R5 and R7 are both 10k, a signal source connected to the left side of either R5 or R7 sees the same input impedance.

Ingo


From guy.mccusker at gmail.com  Wed May  5 21:25:19 2021
From: guy.mccusker at gmail.com (Guy McCusker)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 20:25:19 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>

> You mean the input impedances of the complete circuit with respect to ground? These are equal.
> As long as the feedback works properly, both the inverting and the noninverting input of the opamp are at the same voltage. Since R5 and R7 are both 10k, a signal source connected to the left side of either R5 or R7 sees the same input impedance.

I don't think that is correct but happy to be put straight if I am
mistaken. My take is as follows.

Ignoring the capacitor to make life easier, a signal connected at R7
sees 20k to ground always.
With the input at R7 grounded, a signal connected at R6 sees 10k to
the virtual ground. I can't see any circumstances under which a signal
at R6 sees 20k to ground.

What am I missing?
Guy.


From guy.mccusker at gmail.com  Wed May  5 22:59:39 2021
From: guy.mccusker at gmail.com (Guy McCusker)
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 21:59:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>
 <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPx-PW7KkqwfxYgK4W6XwYx50=EcSf98BJKbxhtMs2RLj9XU-w@mail.gmail.com>

> Ignoring the capacitor to make life easier, a signal connected at R7
> sees 20k to ground always.
> With the input at R7 grounded, a signal connected at R6 sees 10k to
> the virtual ground. I can't see any circumstances under which a signal
> at R6 sees 20k to ground.
>
> What am I missing?

One thing I was missing is that the 6 I thought I saw was really a 5:
replace R6 by R5 in the above. Sorry.

Guy.


From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Thu May  6 09:55:45 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 08:55:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>
 <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <225e3fc0-f7c7-471d-6381-e5e35c843e80@bendentech.co.uk>

On 05/05/2021 20:25, Guy McCusker via Synth-diy wrote:
>> You mean the input impedances of the complete circuit with respect to ground? These are equal.
>> As long as the feedback works properly, both the inverting and the noninverting input of the opamp are at the same voltage. Since R5 and R7 are both 10k, a signal source connected to the left side of either R5 or R7 sees the same input impedance.
> 
> I don't think that is correct but happy to be put straight if I am
> mistaken. My take is as follows.
> 
> Ignoring the capacitor to make life easier, a signal connected at R7
> sees 20k to ground always.
> With the input at R7 grounded, a signal connected at R6 sees 10k to
> the virtual ground. I can't see any circumstances under which a signal
> at R5 sees 20k to ground.
> 
> What am I missing?
> Guy.

You're not mistaken - the input impedances of the single-opamp 
differential amplifier are not equal.

But for a balanced (differential) input signal, the inverting pin of the 
opamp isn't a virtual ground. Imagine feeding the R7 input with +1V and 
the R5 input with -1V. The non-inverting terminal of the opamp will be 
at +0.5V due to the divider action of R7 and R8. There is 0.5V across R7 
and a positive input current of 50uA. So the positive input impedance is 
indeed 1V/50uA = 20k.

However, due to feedback, the opamp keeps its input terminals at the 
same voltage, i.e. the voltage at the inverting terminal must also be 
+0.5V. The voltage across R5 = (-1) - 0.5 = -1.5V and so the negative 
input current is -150uA. That results in a negative input impedance of 
(-1)/(-150uA) = 6.7k.

So, in a nutshell, the difference in the two input impedances is even 
worse than it first appears. The degree will vary with different diffamp 
gains, but the principle stays the same.

It's worth bearing in mind that this doesn't actually matter if your 
source impedance is negligible, because in that case the different 
loadings will not affect the input voltages. But the common-mode 
rejection ('noise cancellation') gets degraded more and more as the 
source impedance increases.

One nifty answer to this is the so-called "Superbal" circuit, where you 
use a second opamp to invert the output signal. The bottom leg of the 
input network (R8 and C17 in the original circuit) is then attached to 
the output of that opamp instead of ground. The effect of this is to 
keep both input terminals of the first opamp at zero volts rather than 
half the positive input voltage. Since the balanced input voltages have 
the same magnitude with respect to ground, the input currents will be 
equal and hence the input impedances will also be equal. It's a great 
circuit and I use it all the time for balanced audio equipment.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound Technology


From igg.debus at gmail.com  Thu May  6 21:48:44 2021
From: igg.debus at gmail.com (Ingo Debus)
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 21:48:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Differential amps and noise cancellation in dsPIC
 33FJ128GP802 uP's DAC
In-Reply-To: <225e3fc0-f7c7-471d-6381-e5e35c843e80@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <CBFC646C-F610-4C1A-B2D6-10BB147CE98D@electricdruid.net>
 <CAPx-PW6Cg3+WbNM5hMdTkUVC7gkYpnAks2arcrsChuNHbvYxjw@mail.gmail.com>
 <499AC01A-605C-4FC7-94D7-B8E9F659FCE5@gmail.com>
 <CAPx-PW5CKyboyL3jvxScdjSms9zaP5p8ix+ZfND2dUn0o89=VQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <225e3fc0-f7c7-471d-6381-e5e35c843e80@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A15C9C64-B51A-4A32-8DD7-904100768B9F@gmail.com>


> Am 06.05.2021 um 09:55 schrieb Steve Lenham <steve at bendentech.co.uk>:
> 
> You're not mistaken - the input impedances of the single-opamp differential amplifier are not equal.

Sorry, my bad. You're absolutely right of course.
The two input impedances are only equal if the two input voltages are same (with respect to ground), in other words, if there?s no differential input signal.

Seems I took the superposition principle one step too far. Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler (paraphrasing Albert Einstein).

Ingo


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Sat May  8 19:59:55 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 13:59:55 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could
 be replacable by DS1230AB..
Message-ID: <002101d74433$f408d780$dc1a8680$@oricom.ca>

In my quest to replace the ?about to die? DS1630AB 32k x 8 NVSRAM  inside my TektronixTDS350 scope
with the same IC because of the possible use of the partitionable memory this chip offers  

Here is a picture of my TDS350 CPU+acquisition board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG

 

I finally found the schematic for a very similar Tektronix scope.. the TDS320.

The TDS320 is a 100Mhz-500MS/s scope while my TDS350 is 200Mhz-1GS/s.

Since the differences between both could reside in the acquisition and time base speeds

It would be very possible both scopes use about the same CPU circuitry..

Here is a snapshot of the TDS320 oscilloscope CPU board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board.jpg

 

You can see that instead of a DS1630AB-120 like the TDS350 the TDS320 CPU uses a DS1230AB-120,

A standard 32k x 8 NVSRAM with no partitioning. Plain NVSRAM memory.

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg

 

So when I replace the actual DS1630AB-120 I will first read it?s complete data
into a .BIN file, then program a standard DS1230AB-120 (which I have on hand)
with the just saved calibration data.. and place it in the new installed 28 pins socket, Then cross my fingers..

Hmmmm. Interesting..

 

 

 

 

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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May  9 17:16:44 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 17:16:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It
turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying
to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower
its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage
regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete
transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF
output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter
stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I
can't really make much sense out of it.

My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired
in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.

1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being
compounded by several stages of op amps?

2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at
24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV /
48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge
selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is
from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet)
their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than
7824C.

3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace
the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I
replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise
op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder
how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise
integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm
not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any
suggestions here?

4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will
fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this
fluctuation?

BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging,
but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as
the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it
sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.

Schematics: https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf

Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn

Discussion on DIY Audio:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May  9 17:29:36 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 17:29:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-93qTYOp1MHvjCKLFiCwMvqP8mNo-mTA3xzdH00FwgE3A@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, in the last email I used "headroom" incorrectly, I meant "SNR" there.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 5:16 PM cheater cheater
<cheater00social at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It
> turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying
> to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower
> its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage
> regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete
> transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF
> output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter
> stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I
> can't really make much sense out of it.
>
> My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired
> in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
>
> 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being
> compounded by several stages of op amps?
>
> 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at
> 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV /
> 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge
> selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is
> from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet)
> their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than
> 7824C.
>
> 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace
> the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I
> replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise
> op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder
> how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise
> integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm
> not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any
> suggestions here?
>
> 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will
> fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this
> fluctuation?
>
> BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging,
> but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as
> the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it
> sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
>
> Schematics: https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf
>
> Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
>
> Discussion on DIY Audio:
> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May  9 18:15:12 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 16:15:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>


If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?   

Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.

After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.

TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
To: synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover

Hi all,
I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.

My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.

1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?

2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.

3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?

4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?

BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.

Schematics: https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf

Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn

Discussion on DIY Audio:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May  9 19:45:32 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 19:45:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot for your email Mike.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?

Can't do that, it's hardwired, it's a special version made for PMC.

> Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.

Yes

> After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.

Not sure how I'd do that. The op amps are discrete. Would you like to
to look at the photos and help me figure this out?

> TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.

The specified noise is -90 dB. I would like to get to somewhere closer
to -110 dB.

What's the best way to measure the noise output without spending too
much on measurement equipment? I was wondering if it's out of spec...

I have some scopes but getting them out right now would be a huge hassle.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
> To: synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
>
> Hi all,
> I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.
>
> My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
>
> 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?
>
> 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.
>
> 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?
>
> 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?
>
> BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
>
> Schematics: https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf
>
> Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
>
> Discussion on DIY Audio:
> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May  9 21:50:09 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 19:50:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <195067a370cc49f09b9ca854128d6cc7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Oh I assumed the op-amps were discrete modules.  Do you have a layout picture ?

-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 May 2021 18:46
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover

Thanks a lot for your email Mike.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?

Can't do that, it's hardwired, it's a special version made for PMC.

> Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.

Yes

> After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.

Not sure how I'd do that. The op amps are discrete. Would you like to to look at the photos and help me figure this out?

> TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.

The specified noise is -90 dB. I would like to get to somewhere closer to -110 dB.

What's the best way to measure the noise output without spending too much on measurement equipment? I was wondering if it's out of spec...

I have some scopes but getting them out right now would be a huge hassle.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
> To: synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
>
> Hi all,
> I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.
>
> My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
>
> 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?
>
> 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.
>
> 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?
>
> 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?
>
> BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
>
> Schematics: 
> https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf
>
> Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
>
> Discussion on DIY Audio:
> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-
> pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May  9 23:02:29 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 23:02:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <195067a370cc49f09b9ca854128d6cc7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>
 <195067a370cc49f09b9ca854128d6cc7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_24ygqO-rN1T82a99RMcM9uLw7t1=PU9FLJ37ADWEvoA@mail.gmail.com>

No layout picture per se, only the photos you see on imgur. I can try
and disassemble it further later on to get the underside of the board,
that could make it easier to see what's going on.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:50 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> Oh I assumed the op-amps were discrete modules.  Do you have a layout picture ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> Sent: 09 May 2021 18:46
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
>
> Thanks a lot for your email Mike.
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?
>
> Can't do that, it's hardwired, it's a special version made for PMC.
>
> > Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.
>
> Yes
>
> > After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.
>
> Not sure how I'd do that. The op amps are discrete. Would you like to to look at the photos and help me figure this out?
>
> > TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.
>
> The specified noise is -90 dB. I would like to get to somewhere closer to -110 dB.
>
> What's the best way to measure the noise output without spending too much on measurement equipment? I was wondering if it's out of spec...
>
> I have some scopes but getting them out right now would be a huge hassle.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
> > cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> > Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
> > To: synth-diy
> > Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.
> >
> > My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
> >
> > 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> > Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?
> >
> > 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> > The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.
> >
> > 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> > There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?
> >
> > 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?
> >
> > BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
> >
> > Schematics:
> > https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.pdf
> >
> > Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
> >
> > Discussion on DIY Audio:
> > https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-output-
> > pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
>



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 10 05:34:48 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 03:34:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_24ygqO-rN1T82a99RMcM9uLw7t1=PU9FLJ37ADWEvoA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>
 <195067a370cc49f09b9ca854128d6cc7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-_24ygqO-rN1T82a99RMcM9uLw7t1=PU9FLJ37ADWEvoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499a17977aa740a5b9dc3252eabfab6b@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

TBH without full schematics and layout you may be onto a hiding for nothing.   You'll spend a huge amount of time possibly getting nowhere as even if you find the noise source it may be hard to fix it.

How much is a better crossover ?


-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: 09 May 2021 22:02
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover

No layout picture per se, only the photos you see on imgur. I can try and disassemble it further later on to get the underside of the board, that could make it easier to see what's going on.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:50 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> Oh I assumed the op-amps were discrete modules.  Do you have a layout picture ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> Sent: 09 May 2021 18:46
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
>
> Thanks a lot for your email Mike.
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?
>
> Can't do that, it's hardwired, it's a special version made for PMC.
>
> > Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.
>
> Yes
>
> > After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.
>
> Not sure how I'd do that. The op amps are discrete. Would you like to to look at the photos and help me figure this out?
>
> > TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.
>
> The specified noise is -90 dB. I would like to get to somewhere closer to -110 dB.
>
> What's the best way to measure the noise output without spending too much on measurement equipment? I was wondering if it's out of spec...
>
> I have some scopes but getting them out right now would be a huge hassle.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf 
> > Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> > Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
> > To: synth-diy
> > Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.
> >
> > My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
> >
> > 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> > Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?
> >
> > 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> > The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.
> >
> > 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> > There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?
> >
> > 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?
> >
> > BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
> >
> > Schematics:
> > https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.p
> > df
> >
> > Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
> >
> > Discussion on DIY Audio:
> > https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-outpu
> > t- pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
>




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 10 06:44:38 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 06:44:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <499a17977aa740a5b9dc3252eabfab6b@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-8y5ysVhvkF+CJW5eN=P+8rjgemZ+JpzxwyhxzDQ3_Uew@mail.gmail.com>
 <195067a370cc49f09b9ca854128d6cc7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-_24ygqO-rN1T82a99RMcM9uLw7t1=PU9FLJ37ADWEvoA@mail.gmail.com>
 <499a17977aa740a5b9dc3252eabfab6b@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-96DQuzaOjkh=K_3aVKpXU-jCtoCnJyOO4gWMN9eyzjaQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is no better crossover that you can buy that I know of

The schematics are up in the top post, but the discrete op amps aren't
detailed. I bet they're all exactly the same, that's what looking at
the PCB from the top indicates - I bet if I look under, the layout's
just replicated 9 times per board.

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 5:34 AM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> TBH without full schematics and layout you may be onto a hiding for nothing.   You'll spend a huge amount of time possibly getting nowhere as even if you find the noise source it may be hard to fix it.
>
> How much is a better crossover ?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> Sent: 09 May 2021 22:02
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
>
> No layout picture per se, only the photos you see on imgur. I can try and disassemble it further later on to get the underside of the board, that could make it easier to see what's going on.
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:50 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh I assumed the op-amps were discrete modules.  Do you have a layout picture ?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 09 May 2021 18:46
> > To: Mike Bryant
> > Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your email Mike.
> >
> > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > If you convert it to stereo mode, is the noise still there, and the same on both channels ?
> >
> > Can't do that, it's hardwired, it's a special version made for PMC.
> >
> > > Does the noise remain if you short the input to ground.
> >
> > Yes
> >
> > > After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.
> >
> > Not sure how I'd do that. The op amps are discrete. Would you like to to look at the photos and help me figure this out?
> >
> > > TBH with 48V supply you've so much headroom the noise should be indiscernable.
> >
> > The specified noise is -90 dB. I would like to get to somewhere closer to -110 dB.
> >
> > What's the best way to measure the noise output without spending too much on measurement equipment? I was wondering if it's out of spec...
> >
> > I have some scopes but getting them out right now would be a huge hassle.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf
> > > Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> > > Sent: 09 May 2021 16:17
> > > To: synth-diy
> > > Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > I am using a Linkwitz-Riley based three-way crossover from Bryston. It turns out to be the major source of noise in my setup and I am trying to see if anything can be improved on the circuit in order to lower its inherent noise, which is standard at -90dB. It uses linear voltage regulators (7824C, 7924C) as well as what I guess are discrete transistor based op amps. My main issue is with noise in the HF output. I think it is the first output from the subsequent filter stages, which should make it easier to analyze the schematic... but I can't really make much sense out of it.
> > >
> > > My crossover is a PMC 10B, which is a rebranded Bryston 10B hardwired in three-way mono mode, and is balanced.
> > >
> > > 1. First of all I am trying to understand where the noise comes from.
> > > Are the op amps adding this noise? Is it the voltage rail noise being compounded by several stages of op amps?
> > >
> > > 2. If I wanted to improve noise on the voltage rails, what would I do?
> > > The 7824C has noise specd at 10 uV/V_O which I assume means 240 uV at 24V, and the 7924C is specd at 170 uV at 24V. That gives us 410 uV / 48V = -101.36 dB - can this be improved upon? There isn't a huge selection of linear 24V 1A regulators on Mouser. The only other is from ROHM, and (I'll spare you translating the Japanese data sheet) their +24V regulator is at 170uV, which isn't that much better than 7824C.
> > >
> > > 3. What could I do to improve the filters themselves? Can I replace the transistors used with something that provides less noise? Could I replicate the boards with the same topology but with modern low noise op amps instead of the discrete transistor based ones used by Bryston?
> > > There are op amps that go as low as 1nV/sqrt(Hz) nowadays... I wonder how hard it would be to repurpose the schematic to a low noise integrated op amp? Note that this device runs at +/-24V rails - I'm not sure how one would use modern low level op amps like this - any suggestions here?
> > >
> > > 4. The noise is constant, white-ish, and every now and then it will fluctuate and become quieter for a second or so. What causes this fluctuation?
> > >
> > > BTW I know I can get rid of a bunch of the noise using gain staging, but I would like to eke out more dynamic range out of this set up, as the following Bryston electronics easily hit -113 dB noise, so it sucks to lose 24 dB headroom to noise.
> > >
> > > Schematics:
> > > https://archive.org/download/bryston_10B_SCHEMATICS/10B_SCHEMATICS.p
> > > df
> > >
> > > Photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/CNcXtZn
> > >
> > > Discussion on DIY Audio:
> > > https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/372026-noise-outpu
> > > t- pmc-main-monitors-due-bryston-crossover.html
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > >
> >
>



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 12 22:18:54 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 12 May 2021 16:18:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could
 be replacable by DS1230AB.. ?? YES !
Message-ID: <002601d7476c$0863fe90$192bfbb0$@oricom.ca>

I just read the scope?s DS1630AB data then programmed a new DS1230Y-70IND+ 

I had on hand and BINGO  ! My TDS350 accepted it with no partitioning at all.
I programmed some setups in the scope?s memory, turned it OFF then back ON
and all the saved data was  there..

I?m SO glad ! No more worries about losing my scope?s calibration..
Just posted this on the Tektronix forum too.

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Envoy? : 8 mai 2021 14:00
? : 'synth-diy mailing list'
Objet : [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could be replacable by DS1230AB..

 

In my quest to replace the ?about to die? DS1630AB 32k x 8 NVSRAM  inside my TektronixTDS350 scope
with the same IC because of the possible use of the partitionable memory this chip offers  

Here is a picture of my TDS350 CPU+acquisition board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG

 

I finally found the schematic for a very similar Tektronix scope.. the TDS320.

The TDS320 is a 100Mhz-500MS/s scope while my TDS350 is 200Mhz-1GS/s.

Since the differences between both could reside in the acquisition and time base speeds

It would be very possible both scopes use about the same CPU circuitry..

Here is a snapshot of the TDS320 oscilloscope CPU board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board.jpg

 

You can see that instead of a DS1630AB-120 like the TDS350 the TDS320 CPU uses a DS1230AB-120,

A standard 32k x 8 NVSRAM with no partitioning. Plain NVSRAM memory.

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg

 

So when I replace the actual DS1630AB-120 I will first read it?s complete data
into a .BIN file, then program a standard DS1230AB-120 (which I have on hand)
with the just saved calibration data.. and place it in the new installed 28 pins socket, Then cross my fingers..

Hmmmm. Interesting..

 

 

 

 

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From Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net  Thu May 13 08:33:39 2021
From: Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net (Ullrich Peter)
Date: Thu, 13 May 2021 06:33:39 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] *EXT* Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM
 DS1630AB could be replacable by DS1230AB.. ?? YES !
In-Reply-To: <002601d7476c$0863fe90$192bfbb0$@oricom.ca>
References: <002601d7476c$0863fe90$192bfbb0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <VI1PR0302MB3325D2EC31CEF7838E17A90494519@VI1PR0302MB3325.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Jean-Pierre!
Cool, that?s good news! Thanks for sharing your experiences and solution.
Ciao
Peter

Holen Sie sich Outlook f?r iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
Gesendet: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 10:18:54 PM
An: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Betreff: *EXT* [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could be replacable by DS1230AB.. ?? YES !


I just read the scope?s DS1630AB data then programmed a new DS1230Y-70IND+

I had on hand and BINGO  ! My TDS350 accepted it with no partitioning at all.
I programmed some setups in the scope?s memory, turned it OFF then back ON
and all the saved data was  there..

I?m SO glad ! No more worries about losing my scope?s calibration..
Just posted this on the Tektronix forum too.



De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Envoy? : 8 mai 2021 14:00
? : 'synth-diy mailing list'
Objet : [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could be replacable by DS1230AB..



In my quest to replace the ?about to die? DS1630AB 32k x 8 NVSRAM  inside my TektronixTDS350 scope
with the same IC because of the possible use of the partitionable memory this chip offers

Here is a picture of my TDS350 CPU+acquisition board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcenson.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40kapsch.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85ab5%7C1%7C1%7C637564478303169047%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P%2BtiGzEHS%2BYm00VE%2B0PhjWb2hMuAyF%2BIHeH2iKYhXpM%3D&reserved=0>



I finally found the schematic for a very similar Tektronix scope.. the TDS320.

The TDS320 is a 100Mhz-500MS/s scope while my TDS350 is 200Mhz-1GS/s.

Since the differences between both could reside in the acquisition and time base speeds

It would be very possible both scopes use about the same CPU circuitry..

Here is a snapshot of the TDS320 oscilloscope CPU board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board.jpg<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcenson.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS320_CPU_board.jpg&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40kapsch.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85ab5%7C1%7C1%7C637564478303179049%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=I6bBp8or8z8Zlxf1Tj%2BmwdapvWZyLQbRp80HjdaBcDQ%3D&reserved=0>



You can see that instead of a DS1630AB-120 like the TDS350 the TDS320 CPU uses a DS1230AB-120,

A standard 32k x 8 NVSRAM with no partitioning. Plain NVSRAM memory.

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcenson.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40kapsch.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85ab5%7C1%7C1%7C637564478303179049%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=itLn17IxX92XsVOwTSVdY2g2%2Bb0stwl59L2PNfG7%2BVw%3D&reserved=0>



So when I replace the actual DS1630AB-120 I will first read it?s complete data
into a .BIN file, then program a standard DS1230AB-120 (which I have on hand)
with the just saved calibration data.. and place it in the new installed 28 pins socket, Then cross my fingers..

Hmmmm. Interesting..











The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.

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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 14 08:15:32 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 08:15:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Noise source in Bryston 10B crossover
In-Reply-To: <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-9hAJY8k9wMRZaoOGfmWj=eHupoi6N8vmWrYmbwACA+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <22aafe17698746bca91950573c491483@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--Ng2EZ1WH60q8vSDUbOqgO8SDPytpuGK_9k19J4HtbdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 6:15 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> After that, I'd go through with a 100ohm resistor and short each op-amp input to ground and see if any place reduces the noise.   Then tell us where that is and we can suggest where to look next.
>

What exactly would I be shorting to ground? Each op amp's input?
Output? Which of the inputs should I be shorting: inverting or
non-inverting?

Thanks


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Fri May 14 15:18:59 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 09:18:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DS1630AB tests on my device programmer.. the results..
Message-ID: <000601d748c3$b45e9900$1d1bcb00$@oricom.ca>

> Cool, that?s good news! Thanks for sharing your experiences and solution.

You were very welcome Ulrich.

Yesterday, final tests on original DS1630AB and saved datas..

 

As I suspected the DS1630AB original 32k datas seem to have no protected 2k
chunks.
I placed the chip in my programmer and since there are no DS1630AB in the
programmer's
device list I had to use the DS1230AB device to make my tests (same
architecture but no partitioning).

 

Ok, so I filled all the screen memory space with FF then programmed the
chip.

Removed the chip from the socket, 

filled all the screen memory space with 33, placed the chip back into the
socket,
read back the chip data and all the bytes were FF all over the 32k space.

 

Then I filled all the screen memory space with 00 then programmed the chip.

Removed the chip from the socket, 

filled all the screen memory space with AA, placed the chip back into the
socket,

read back the chip data and all the bytes were 00 all over the 32k space.

 

It seems there were no write-protected 2k chunks in the entire memory space
(finally replaceable with a DS1230AB).

JP

 

De : Ullrich Peter [mailto:Peter.Ullrich at kapsch.net] 
Envoy? : 13 mai 2021 02:34
? : Jean-Pierre Desrochers; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: *EXT* [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM
DS1630AB could be replacable by DS1230AB.. ?? YES !

 

Hi Jean-Pierre!

Cool, that?s good news! Thanks for sharing your experiences and solution.

Ciao

Peter

 

Holen Sie sich Outlook f?r iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> 

  _____  

Von: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> im Auftrag von Jean-Pierre
Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca>
Gesendet: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 10:18:54 PM
An: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Betreff: *EXT* [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB
could be replacable by DS1230AB.. ?? YES ! 

 

I just read the scope?s DS1630AB data then programmed a new DS1230Y-70IND+ 

I had on hand and BINGO  ! My TDS350 accepted it with no partitioning at
all.
I programmed some setups in the scope?s memory, turned it OFF then back ON
and all the saved data was  there..

I?m SO glad ! No more worries about losing my scope?s calibration..
Just posted this on the Tektronix forum too.

 

De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de
Jean-Pierre Desrochers
Envoy? : 8 mai 2021 14:00
? : 'synth-diy mailing list'
Objet : [sdiy] Textronix TDS350 scope memory backup NVSRAM DS1630AB could be
replacable by DS1230AB..

 

In my quest to replace the ?about to die? DS1630AB 32k x 8 NVSRAM  inside my
TektronixTDS350 scope
with the same IC because of the possible use of the partitionable memory
this chip offers  

Here is a picture of my TDS350 CPU+acquisition board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcens
on.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS350_CPU-ACQ_board.JPG&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40ka
psch.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85a
b5%7C1%7C1%7C637564478303169047%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAi
LCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=P%2BtiGzEHS%2BYm
00VE%2B0PhjWb2hMuAyF%2BIHeH2iKYhXpM%3D&reserved=0> 

 

I finally found the schematic for a very similar Tektronix scope.. the
TDS320.

The TDS320 is a 100Mhz-500MS/s scope while my TDS350 is 200Mhz-1GS/s.

Since the differences between both could reside in the acquisition and time
base speeds

It would be very possible both scopes use about the same CPU circuitry..

Here is a snapshot of the TDS320 oscilloscope CPU board:

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board.jpg
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcens
on.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS320_CPU_board.jpg&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40kapsch
.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85ab5%7
C1%7C1%7C637564478303179049%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ
IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=I6bBp8or8z8Zlxf1Tj%2
BmwdapvWZyLQbRp80HjdaBcDQ%3D&reserved=0> 

 

You can see that instead of a DS1630AB-120 like the TDS350 the TDS320 CPU
uses a DS1230AB-120,

A standard 32k x 8 NVSRAM with no partitioning. Plain NVSRAM memory.

http://www.arcenson.com/public/TDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arcens
on.com%2Fpublic%2FTDS320_CPU_board_2.jpg&data=04%7C01%7CPeter.Ullrich%40kaps
ch.net%7C89b32e94600b4d3eddf008d91583d880%7C5f9ce5277e3e4e83a8a4b6c848f85ab5
%7C1%7C1%7C637564478303179049%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=itLn17IxX92XsVOwTS
VdY2g2%2Bb0stwl59L2PNfG7%2BVw%3D&reserved=0> 

 

So when I replace the actual DS1630AB-120 I will first read it?s complete
data
into a .BIN file, then program a standard DS1230AB-120 (which I have on
hand)
with the just saved calibration data.. and place it in the new installed 28
pins socket, Then cross my fingers..

Hmmmm. Interesting..

 

 

 

 




The information contained in this e-mail message is privileged and
confidential and is for the exclusive use of the addressee. The person who
receives this message and who is not the addressee, one of his employees or
an agent entitled to hand it over to the addressee, is informed that he may
not use, disclose or reproduce the contents thereof, and is kindly asked to
notify the sender and delete the e-mail immediately.

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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Sun May 16 09:37:17 2021
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 08:37:17 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Delia Derbyshire on BBC tonight
Message-ID: <007901d74a26$4c3b8220$e4b28660$@gmail.com>

Delia Derbyshire: The Myths and the Legendary Tapes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w6tr

"Docudrama that explores the life and creative output of Coventry born-Delia
Derbyshire - electronic musician, sound pioneer and female outsider in
postwar Britain."

On UK's BBC 4 tonight 9pm, then on iPlayer after broadcast.

 

SHEDSYNTH <https://shedsynth.wordpress.com/>  - home-knitted eurorack

 

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From tim.cockram at ieee.org  Mon May 17 22:47:27 2021
From: tim.cockram at ieee.org (Tim Cockram)
Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 21:47:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Delia Derbyshire on BBC tonight
In-Reply-To: <007901d74a26$4c3b8220$e4b28660$@gmail.com>
References: <007901d74a26$4c3b8220$e4b28660$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO8MHbt3R5W=RA9MSNnerWqYUvGWjBf7NOB71Bb5vXSKVRx=3w@mail.gmail.com>

A very talented lady!

Do you think the 'cardboard' Synthi 100 was a reference to some of the Dr
Who sets?

tc

On Sun, 16 May 2021 at 08:41, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Delia Derbyshire: The Myths and the Legendary Tapes
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000w6tr
>
> ?*Docudrama that explores the life and creative output of Coventry
> born-Delia Derbyshire ? electronic musician, sound pioneer and female
> outsider in postwar Britain*.?
>
> On UK?s BBC 4 tonight 9pm, then on iPlayer after broadcast.
>
>
>
> SHEDSYNTH <https://shedsynth.wordpress.com/> ? home-knitted eurorack
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca  Wed May 19 14:06:59 2021
From: mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca (mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>

It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
12, 2022:
   https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf

I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.

CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.

A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
better - in which case why make them different at all?

Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.

I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
too.  Memento mori.

-- 
Matthew Skala
mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/


From vladoman at gmail.com  Wed May 19 14:15:57 2021
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 14:15:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <CADBCB7FcqKfnbMBhF_6uxG65WkjTtT4D+RQNJyqw60n3Wd4j_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 19, 2021, 14:10 <mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca> wrote:

>
>
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> too.  Memento mori.
>

DIP == DIscontinued Product

SCNR
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From chris at chrismusic.de  Wed May 19 15:42:20 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 15:42:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.

Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.

Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
Like f holes on a violin...?

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> 12, 2022:
>    https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
> it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
> do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
> between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
> of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> better - in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> too.  Memento mori.
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From dh at atoav.com  Wed May 19 15:45:10 2021
From: dh at atoav.com (dh at atoav.com)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 15:45:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <4acbb5f3-c128-e76f-67dc-ca57a8c377dc@atoav.com>



On 19.05.21 15:42, chris wrote:
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.

I agree with the idea that SOIC is not harder to solder than DIP if you
got the idea. However ? having DIP for prototypying/breadboarding
available would be quite nice as well : )




From info at synthcube.com  Wed May 19 15:56:22 2021
From: info at synthcube.com (info synthcube.com)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 13:56:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity of them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size of the semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space as they pass through, and legacy synth designs are based on that model. Stuffing electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them out,  and thins out and strains the associated sounds. You lose that rich, long-pin, big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP

Monika 

synthCube


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.

Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.

Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
Like f holes on a violin...?

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the 
> DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links 
> to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order 
> date May 12, 2022:
>    
> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212
> 340278.pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to 
> hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, 
> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  
> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
> surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which 
> is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole 
> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market 
> for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to be 
> worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other 
> products too.  Memento mori.
> 
> --
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca  Wed May 19 16:03:01 2021
From: mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca (mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 10:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190957040.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>

On Wed, 19 May 2021, chris wrote:
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
>
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
> have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
>
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better?
> Like f holes on a violin...?

The violin hole example is an interesting one, because there's evidence
that those do in fact affect the sound.
   https://news.mit.edu/2015/violin-acoustic-power-0210

I don't know that many synth-DIY readers are also DIYing violins, but
there might possibly be some interest for physical modelling synthesis.

-- 
Matthew Skala
mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/


From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Wed May 19 16:11:28 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 09:11:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>

Repairs.

Existing established designs.  It's not trivial to "port" to smd the right
way, i.e. not just dumping into the new format without testing to ensure
it's still good (yes usually it will be, but it still has to go through the
process).

As already pointed out, breadboard work.

Nothing dogmatic about simply noting the continued fading of through hole
either.

The skill of soldering smd well is *different* from soldering through hole
well.  Easier or not this is still a concern to a lot of people who don't
have that experience with smd.

Pete





On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:46 AM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:

> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
>
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
> have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
>
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better?
> Like f holes on a violin...?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the
> DIP
> > version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> > discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> > 12, 2022:
> >
> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
> >
> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> > shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> >
> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> > SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
> > it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> > the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> > don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> > they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> >
> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> > transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> > which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
> They
> > do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer
> units
> > between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
> > of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> > better - in which case why make them different at all?
> >
> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> > site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> > 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> >
> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> > general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> > version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> > through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> > product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> > serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> > too.  Memento mori.
> >
> > --
> > Matthew Skala
> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From chris at chrismusic.de  Wed May 19 16:20:57 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 16:20:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

Aah, I see. 

Thinking at that level also explains why tubes are better. Most probably
electrons are afraid in the dark. And now adding their claustrophobic
nature to that...

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:56:22 +0000 info synthcube.com
<info at synthcube.com> wrote:

> Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity of them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size of the semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space as they pass through, and legacy synth designs are based on that model. Stuffing electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them out,  and thins out and strains the associated sounds. You lose that rich, long-pin, big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP
> 
> Monika 
> 
> synthCube
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> 
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
> Like f holes on a violin...?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> 
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the 
> > DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links 
> > to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order 
> > date May 12, 2022:
> >    
> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212
> > 340278.pdf
> > 
> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
> > still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> > 
> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
> > and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
> > doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
> > Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
> > data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to 
> > hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> > 
> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
> > transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, 
> > which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  
> > They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
> > buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
> > surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
> > that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
> > 
> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
> > Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which 
> > is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> > 
> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
> > general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole 
> > version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market 
> > for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
> > this product, that means the market in question is now too small to be 
> > worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other 
> > products too.  Memento mori.
> > 
> > --
> > Matthew Skala
> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 19 16:21:33 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 10:21:33 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation.. now in SMT packages
Message-ID: <000f01d74cba$45a888e0$d0f99aa0$@oricom.ca>

I always use breadboards for prototyping new designs.. always.
Even if I begin to be less allergic to SMT parts and sometime use them
a DIP package is far more faster to solder on a pcb than a SMT package.
SMT packages oblige me to make small DIP adapters to test them
before any final pcb designs.. Boring..

JP

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de dh at atoav.com
Envoy? : 19 mai 2021 09:45
? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation



On 19.05.21 15:42, chris wrote:
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.

I agree with the idea that SOIC is not harder to solder than DIP if you got the idea. However ? having DIP for prototypying/breadboarding available would be quite nice as well : )


_______________________________________________
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Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From info at synthcube.com  Wed May 19 16:35:27 2021
From: info at synthcube.com (info synthcube.com)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 14:35:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <MN2PR18MB2687E40859CA35C158527EBCD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

Yes, 'dark' represents the existential opposite of electrons and the light they can produce (their anti-being) so naturally there's a deeply ingrained terror. As a result of these new insights we are thinking about designing a line of electron-friendly DIP ICs that are transparent, and also have a number of holes drilled through them to help the acoustics. I haven't yet seen a scope that can measure and display electron comfort and happiness but clearly one is needed to silence the doubters. 

Monika 

synthCube


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Aah, I see. 

Thinking at that level also explains why tubes are better. Most probably electrons are afraid in the dark. And now adding their claustrophobic nature to that...

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:56:22 +0000 info synthcube.com <info at synthcube.com> wrote:

> Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity 
> of them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size 
> of the semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space 
> as they pass through, and legacy synth designs are based on that 
> model. Stuffing electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them 
> out,  and thins out and strains the associated sounds. You lose that 
> rich, long-pin, big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP
> 
> Monika
> 
> synthCube
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> 
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
> Like f holes on a violin...?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> 
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
> > the DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
> > links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
> > last order date May 12, 2022:
> >    
> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_20210512
> > 12
> > 340278.pdf
> > 
> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
> > still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> > 
> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both 
> > DIP and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
> > doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and 
> > a Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up 
> > the data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way 
> > accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> > 
> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual 
> > operational transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available 
> > through LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
> > They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
> > buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
> > surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
> > that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
> > 
> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
> > Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
> > which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> > 
> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
> > general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a 
> > through-hole version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share 
> > of the market for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes 
> > sense to discontinue this product, that means the market in question 
> > is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that assessment 
> > will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
> > 
> > --
> > Matthew Skala
> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cjuried at yahoo.com  Wed May 19 19:08:44 2021
From: cjuried at yahoo.com (Chris Juried)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 17:08:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR18MB2687E40859CA35C158527EBCD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB2687E40859CA35C158527EBCD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <25196298.355443.1621444124291@mail.yahoo.com>

Lol, this post made my day.


Sincerely,

Christopher Juried 

https://juriedengineering.com/

FCC Licensed RF Coordinator

Audio Engineering Society (AES)?Member

 
 
  On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:34 PM, info synthcube.com<info at synthcube.com> wrote:   Yes, 'dark' represents the existential opposite of electrons and the light they can produce (their anti-being) so naturally there's a deeply ingrained terror. As a result of these new insights we are thinking about designing a line of electron-friendly DIP ICs that are transparent, and also have a number of holes drilled through them to help the acoustics. I haven't yet seen a scope that can measure and display electron comfort and happiness but clearly one is needed to silence the doubters. 

Monika 

synthCube


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Aah, I see. 

Thinking at that level also explains why tubes are better. Most probably electrons are afraid in the dark. And now adding their claustrophobic nature to that...

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:56:22 +0000 info synthcube.com <info at synthcube.com> wrote:

> Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity 
> of them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size 
> of the semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space 
> as they pass through, and legacy synth designs are based on that 
> model. Stuffing electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them 
> out,? and thins out and strains the associated sounds. You lose that 
> rich, long-pin, big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP
> 
> Monika
> 
> synthCube
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> 
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
> Like f holes on a violin...?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> 
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
> > the DIP version of the part.? Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
> > links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
> > last order date May 12, 2022:
> >? ? 
> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_20210512
> > 12
> > 340278.pdf
> > 
> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
> > still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> > 
> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both 
> > DIP and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.? CoolAudio 
> > doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and 
> > a Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up 
> > the data sheet.? I don't believe it really exists in any way 
> > accessible to hobbyists.? Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> > 
> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual 
> > operational transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available 
> > through LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
> > They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
> > buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
> > surface-mount version of a similar part).? Interestingly, they claim 
> > that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
> > 
> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
> > Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
> > which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> > 
> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
> > general.? As basically the last OTA to be available in a 
> > through-hole version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share 
> > of the market for through-hole analog electronics.? If it makes 
> > sense to discontinue this product, that means the market in question 
> > is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that assessment 
> > will be applied to other products too.? Memento mori.
> > 
> > --
> > Matthew Skala
> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? People before tribes.
> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

_______________________________________________
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Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
  
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From thresholdpeople at protonmail.com  Wed May 19 19:29:11 2021
From: thresholdpeople at protonmail.com (thresholdpeople)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 17:29:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <25196298.355443.1621444124291@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB2687E40859CA35C158527EBCD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <25196298.355443.1621444124291@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>

I like these DIP to SOIC adapters for prototyping on a breadboard, or for retrofitting SMT parts into through hole boards: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13655. The related items feature boards for pins with all sorts of pin counts.

Though I too think SOIC isn't any harder to deal with than through hole, and can be dead-bugged pretty easily as well when the adapters aren't available. Maybe fewer people into DIY have SMT soldering experience, for now, but no one starts out knowing how to solder anyway, and these are skills that are learned and incrementally improved. And at that scale, the rework is also not hard, and I think it's far easier to actually properly desolder SMT parts than through hole.

It is a shame though - that chip is so ubiquitous in so many designs. That will make things more difficult, but the pinout is the same for both the surface mount and through hole, so at least using the adapter boards it should be plug and play with just an additional step.

-boris

??????? Original Message ???????
On Wednesday, May 19th, 2021 at 1:08 PM, Chris Juried via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Lol, this post made my day.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christopher Juried
>
> https://juriedengineering.com/
>
> FCC Licensed RF Coordinator
>
> Audio Engineering Society (AES) Member
>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:34 PM, info synthcube.com
>> <info at synthcube.com> wrote:
>> Yes, 'dark' represents the existential opposite of electrons and the light they can produce (their anti-being) so naturally there's a deeply ingrained terror. As a result of these new insights we are thinking about designing a line of electron-friendly DIP ICs that are transparent, and also have a number of holes drilled through them to help the acoustics. I haven't yet seen a scope that can measure and display electron comfort and happiness but clearly one is needed to silence the doubters.
>>
>> Monika
>>
>> synthCube
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:21 AM
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>
>> Aah, I see.
>>
>> Thinking at that level also explains why tubes are better. Most probably electrons are afraid in the dark. And now adding their claustrophobic nature to that...
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 13:56:22 +0000 info synthcube.com <info at synthcube.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity
>>> of them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size
>>> of the semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space
>>> as they pass through, and legacy synth designs are based on that
>>> model. Stuffing electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them
>>> out, and thins out and strains the associated sounds. You lose that
>>> rich, long-pin, big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP
>>>
>>> Monika
>>>
>>> synthCube
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>>
>>> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
>>>
>>> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
>>>
>>> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better?
>>> Like f holes on a violin...?
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>>>
>>> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is
>>> > the DIP version of the part. Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and
>>> > links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the
>>> > last order date May 12, 2022:
>>> >
>>> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_20210512
>>> > 12
>>> > 340278.pdf
>>> >
>>> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which
>>> > still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>>> >
>>> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both
>>> > DIP and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn. CoolAudio
>>> > doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and
>>> > a Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up
>>> > the data sheet. I don't believe it really exists in any way
>>> > accessible to hobbyists. Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>>> >
>>> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual
>>> > operational transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available
>>> > through LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
>>> > They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the
>>> > buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own
>>> > surface-mount version of a similar part). Interestingly, they claim
>>> > that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>>> >
>>> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the
>>> > Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704,
>>> > which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>>> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>>> >
>>> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
>>> > general. As basically the last OTA to be available in a
>>> > through-hole version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share
>>> > of the market for through-hole analog electronics. If it makes
>>> > sense to discontinue this product, that means the market in question
>>> > is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that assessment
>>> > will be applied to other products too. Memento mori.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Matthew Skala
>>> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before tribes.
>>> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>>> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From chris at chrismusic.de  Wed May 19 19:52:39 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 19:52:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210519193736.D4A4.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:11:28 -0500 Pete Hartman <pete.hartman at gmail.com> wrote:

> Repairs.

Um, assuming synth chips are not dying like flies, I can live with some
occasional improvisation for repairs.
I just happened to reactivate a dead OB-8 this week, which had a blown
DAC. Of course it would have been nice to just put in something
compatible, but I was more than happy to kludge something with a
currently available DAC.

> As already pointed out, breadboard work.

Ok, that may be more valid to others. 
I never liked breadboarding - for decades, I rather made a
quick'n'sloppy PCB for a first test.

> The skill of soldering smd well is *different* from soldering through hole
> well.  Easier or not this is still a concern to a lot of people who don't
> have that experience with smd.

Well, as a beginner, people without any soldering skills do have to take
a first step. It may be just a different step (as you said).

> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:46 AM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
> 
> > Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> >
> > Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
> > have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> >
> > Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better?
> > Like f holes on a violin...?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> >
> > > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the
> > DIP
> > > version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> > > discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> > > 12, 2022:
> > >
> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
> > >
> > > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> > > shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> > >
> > > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> > > SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
> > > it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> > > the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> > > don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> > > they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> > >
> > > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> > > transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> > > which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
> > They
> > > do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer
> > units
> > > between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
> > > of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> > > better - in which case why make them different at all?
> > >
> > > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> > > site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> > > 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> > > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> > >
> > > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> > > general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> > > version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> > > through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> > > product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> > > serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> > > too.  Memento mori.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Matthew Skala
> > > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> > > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed May 19 20:05:11 2021
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 12:05:11 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>

Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!

Ian

> On May 19, 2021, at 7:44 AM, chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
> 
> ?Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
> have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> 
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
> Like f holes on a violin...?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
>> 12, 2022:
>>   https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
>> it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
>> the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
>> don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
>> they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
>> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
>> do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
>> between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
>> of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
>> better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
>> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
>> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
>> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
>> product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
>> serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
>> too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Wed May 19 20:12:04 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 14:12:04 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <002e01d74cda$7af02920$70d07b60$@oricom.ca>

> Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!

When I bought this universal programmer it came with a HUGE
set of ZIF to DIP adapters (37 overall) ..
These adapters are very handy !!!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001658254400.html?albpd=en1005001658254400&acnt=708-803-3821&aff_platform=aaf&albpg=743612850714&netw=u&albcp=7386552844&pvid=b2cd7219-b6d0-4b96-a7f9-82e1187346a0&sk=UneMJZVf&scm=1007.23534.123999.0&trgt=743612850714&terminal_id=aa2eef87115d46deb59b6c12f0a2191d&needSmbHouyi=false&albbt=Google_7_shopping&src=google&crea=en1005001658254400&aff_fcid=b31090308e9e42e89a0eab5643cfbe0c-1621447734146-07413-UneMJZVf&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7pKFBhDUARIsAFUoMDb1zQrq1a8JCGRifm3sl5RnDJ_jPuCPCnUFOtlVuSXYnJDk983qNsoaAmm8EALw_wcB&albag=80241711349&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&albch=shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&aff_trace_key=b31090308e9e42e89a0eab5643cfbe0c-1621447734146-07413-UneMJZVf&rmsg=do_not_replacement&device=c&gclsrc=aw.ds

***********************************************

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Ian Fritz via Synth-diy
Envoy? : 19 mai 2021 14:05
? : chris
Cc : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!

Ian

> On May 19, 2021, at 7:44 AM, chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
> 
> ?Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and 
> fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
> 
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
> Like f holes on a violin...?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
>> the DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
>> links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
>> last order date May 12, 2022:
>>   
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_202105121
>> 2340278.pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible 
>> to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through 
>> LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or 
>> isn't.  They do note in their data sheet that there are differences 
>> in the buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their 
>> own surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they 
>> claim that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
>> which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
>> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole 
>> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market 
>> for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to 
>> discontinue this product, that means the market in question is now 
>> too small to be worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be 
>> applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From ijfritz at comcast.net  Wed May 19 20:59:50 2021
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 12:59:50 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <002e01d74cda$7af02920$70d07b60$@oricom.ca>
References: <002e01d74cda$7af02920$70d07b60$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <D695E08D-32F3-4442-A9FB-303386555A30@comcast.net>

Thanks! Last I looked I didn?t find anything, but now I see a number available. 

Ian

> On May 19, 2021, at 12:12 PM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> 
>> Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!
> 
> When I bought this universal programmer it came with a HUGE
> set of ZIF to DIP adapters (37 overall) ..
> These adapters are very handy !!!
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001658254400.html?albpd=en1005001658254400&acnt=708-803-3821&aff_platform=aaf&albpg=743612850714&netw=u&albcp=7386552844&pvid=b2cd7219-b6d0-4b96-a7f9-82e1187346a0&sk=UneMJZVf&scm=1007.23534.123999.0&trgt=743612850714&terminal_id=aa2eef87115d46deb59b6c12f0a2191d&needSmbHouyi=false&albbt=Google_7_shopping&src=google&crea=en1005001658254400&aff_fcid=b31090308e9e42e89a0eab5643cfbe0c-1621447734146-07413-UneMJZVf&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7pKFBhDUARIsAFUoMDb1zQrq1a8JCGRifm3sl5RnDJ_jPuCPCnUFOtlVuSXYnJDk983qNsoaAmm8EALw_wcB&albag=80241711349&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&albch=shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&aff_trace_key=b31090308e9e42e89a0eab5643cfbe0c-1621447734146-07413-UneMJZVf&rmsg=do_not_replacement&device=c&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> ***********************************************
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de Ian Fritz via Synth-diy
> Envoy? : 19 mai 2021 14:05
> ? : chris
> Cc : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet : Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!
> 
> Ian
> 
>> On May 19, 2021, at 7:44 AM, chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
>> 
>> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and 
>> fingers have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
>> 
>> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
>> Like f holes on a violin...?
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>>> 
>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
>>> the DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
>>> links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
>>> last order date May 12, 2022:
>>> 
>>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_202105121
>>> 2340278.pdf
>>> 
>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>>> 
>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
>>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>>> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible 
>>> to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>>> 
>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through 
>>> LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or 
>>> isn't.  They do note in their data sheet that there are differences 
>>> in the buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their 
>>> own surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they 
>>> claim that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>>> 
>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
>>> which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>>> 
>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in 
>>> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole 
>>> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market 
>>> for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to 
>>> discontinue this product, that means the market in question is now 
>>> too small to be worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be 
>>> applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Matthew Skala
>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 




From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Wed May 19 21:51:34 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 20:51:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxL2O0Qki0FvGzbnfUqV2YOJ+opV=dfsX+-Rz96S7pRAkw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ian,

> what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!

There are:
https://www.amazon.com/ALLSOCKET-SOP16-5-4-1-27-Programming-Validation-1-27-01/dp/B06XDKKNLS/ref=sr_1_32

or similar.

Cheers,
Neil


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Wed May 19 22:10:24 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 13:10:24 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>

When DIP dies, I stop doing electronics.  I hate hand-soldering SMD -- it's
not fun.  In fact, it's insulting, because I'm not a robot and I resent
being taken as one.
 
But, seriously, I haven't used an LM13700 for 10 years or more, so I'm not
really too upset about that one.
 
Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?
I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole
list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and
add it manually.  Please change it back.

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Pete
Hartman via Synth-diy
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:11 AM
To: chris
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]	

Repairs.

Existing established designs.  It's not trivial to "port" to smd the right
way, i.e. not just dumping into the new format without testing to ensure
it's still good (yes usually it will be, but it still has to go through the
process).

As already pointed out, breadboard work.

Nothing dogmatic about simply noting the continued fading of through hole
either.

The skill of soldering smd well is *different* from soldering through hole
well.  Easier or not this is still a concern to a lot of people who don't
have that experience with smd.

Pete





On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 8:46 AM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:


Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.

Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.

Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better? 
Like f holes on a violin...?

Chris



On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:

> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> 12, 2022:
>
https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
.pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
> it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
> do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
> between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
> of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> better - in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> too.  Memento mori.
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


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From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Wed May 19 23:06:06 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 17:06:06 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>

At least the LM13700 is available for a while still, and from a "major
distributor." If anything, this might be an opportunity to "invest" in a
few to sell after they're discontinued.

I'll happily take DIP going away if it would help availability of more of
these new/newly remanufactured chips. I looked on the Alfa Rpar site and
saw the AS3341, essentially the exponential converter section of the
AS/CEM3340 oscillator with the expo current brought out to a pin. I've got
some good ideas for this, but I'd have to be able to buy it. There are
boutique distributors that have some of these new and newly remade parts,
but none that I've seen carrying a manufacturer's whole line. I'd email the
manufacturer but I doubt I could afford the MOQ, and I'd rather not become
a boutique reseller myself. I see ebay has sellers of the AS3340 and such,
but not the AS3341.
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Wed May 19 23:14:27 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 22:14:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMx+0dUWTF4oaH=Wv+PFJ3_JebcQx4gKugZoxUPmGxsXcFw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Ben Bradley wrote:
> I'll happily take DIP going away if it would help availability of more of these new/newly remanufactured chips. I looked on the Alfa Rpar site and saw the AS3341, essentially the exponential converter section of the AS/CEM3340 oscillator with the expo current brought out to a pin.

You can essentially do that already with the SSI2130/SSI2131 by
holding the TCAP pin at ground, for example an inverting opamp which
would give you an output voltage that is the exponential of the CV.

>I've got some good ideas for this, but I'd have to be able to buy it. There are boutique distributors that have some of these new and newly remade parts, but none that I've seen carrying a manufacturer's whole line. I'd email the manufacturer but I doubt I could afford the MOQ, and I'd rather not become a boutique reseller myself. I see ebay has sellers of the AS3340 and such, but not the AS3341.

Several resellers of the SSI product line:
http://www.soundsemiconductor.com/buy.html

Neil



From jluciani at gmail.com  Thu May 20 00:55:09 2021
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 18:55:09 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qhd=-vSxhyy_FoDOFGhLrr4L0YV1M7JmO6zhwDric_QkuKmw@mail.gmail.com>

Be careful about letting the marketing folks hear this -

  The superior sound is attributed to the patent-pending usage of
cage-free, farm-fresh, free-range electrons. Only
  happy and healthy electrons can produce such rich and full sounds ;)

John L

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 9:57 AM info synthcube.com <info at synthcube.com>
wrote:

> Electrons are all the same size, so when you stuff a certain quantity of
> them through a semiconductor, things change depending on the size of the
> semiconductor. DIP parts allow for electron comfort and space as they pass
> through, and legacy synth designs are based on that model. Stuffing
> electrons into those tiny SMT packages stresses them out,  and thins out
> and strains the associated sounds. You lose that rich, long-pin,
> big-package tone. Long live the LM13700 and DIP
>
> Monika
>
> synthCube
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of chris
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:42 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
>
> Soldering SO is a piece of cake. Even my 60+ years old eyes and fingers
> have no problems with SO. It's not as if it were 0.4mm pitch or BGA.
>
> Or is it the old wives' tale that the holes make it sound better?
> Like f holes on a violin...?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 08:06:59 -0400 (EDT) mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the
> > DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links
> > to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order
> > date May 12, 2022:
> >
> > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212
> > 340278.pdf
> >
> > I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which
> > still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> >
> > CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP
> > and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio
> > doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a
> > Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the
> > data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to
> > hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> >
> > A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> > transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> > which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
> > They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the
> > buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own
> > surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim
> > that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different
> at all?
> >
> > Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the
> > Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which
> > is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in
> SOIC.
> > Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> >
> > I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> > general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> > version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market
> > for through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue
> > this product, that means the market in question is now too small to be
> > worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other
> > products too.  Memento mori.
> >
> > --
> > Matthew Skala
> > mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> > https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From davidsch at earthlink.net  Thu May 20 05:02:33 2021
From: davidsch at earthlink.net (David Schwan)
Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 20:02:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation.. now in SMT packages
In-Reply-To: <000f01d74cba$45a888e0$d0f99aa0$@oricom.ca>
References: <000f01d74cba$45a888e0$d0f99aa0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <AF528A33-650E-4C06-9296-48A09725D59C@earthlink.net>

NJR used to make these, I still see their parts available.



> On May 19, 2021, at 7:21 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
> 
> I always use breadboards for prototyping new designs.. always.
> Even if I begin to be less allergic to SMT parts and sometime use them
> a DIP package is far more faster to solder on a pcb than a SMT package.
> SMT packages oblige me to make small DIP adapters to test them
> before any final pcb designs.. Boring..
> 
> JP
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de dh at atoav.com
> Envoy? : 19 mai 2021 09:45
> ? : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet : Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> 
> On 19.05.21 15:42, chris wrote:
>> Hmm, I don't understand why people are dogmatically sticking to DIP.
> 
> I agree with the idea that SOIC is not harder to solder than DIP if you got the idea. However ? having DIP for prototypying/breadboarding available would be quite nice as well : )
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Thu May 20 08:52:58 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 08:52:58 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <f746ac69-dfad-630e-cb00-f8144df23f68@gmx.de>


David G Dixon via Synth-diy:
> When DIP dies, I stop doing electronics.  I hate hand-soldering SMD --
> it's not fun.  In fact, it's insulting, because I'm not a robot and I
> resent being taken as one.

But the other one is SOIC. That's still HUGE. I'm not sure how the
soldering of that has a differing degree of fun from DIP, you just do it
and that's that. Half asleep or not.

> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this
> forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All"
My mail program has a "Reply List" button which seemsd to work as the
name suggests

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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Thu May 20 10:07:19 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 10:07:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB2687E40859CA35C158527EBCD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <25196298.355443.1621444124291@mail.yahoo.com>
 <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>


thresholdpeople via Synth-diy:
> I like these DIP to SOIC adapters for prototyping on a breadboard, or
> for retrofitting SMT parts into through hole boards:
> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13655. The related items feature
> boards for pins with all sorts of pin counts.

On ebay one can often find better bang/buck offers for those things,
esp. if buying a few more (at least at German ebay I have bought a bunch
of those before)


> Though I too think SOIC isn't any harder to deal with than through
> hole, and can be dead-bugged pretty easily as well when the adapters
> aren't available.

For lower pin count things like a dual op amp, it might also not be too
laborious to do "split pads" on perfboard. I.e. if the perfboard quality
is good enough, with a sharp knife, you can cut a (electrically) clean
crack in the center of a copper circle, making two pads out of it, do
that with 7 more and easily solder the SO opamp on it.
I have seen perfboard with spacing  of SO pins, though. It's just not
cheap. Although, you could design some and have a cheap PCB service make
it, even with some or all plated-through holes / double sided. They are
cheap when you order more of the same.

> Maybe fewer people into DIY have SMT soldering experience, for now,
> but no one starts out knowing how to solder anyway, and these are
> skills that are learned and incrementally improved.

Yeah, and then you better do get into SMT. There is no reason for parts
manufacturers to keep producing DIP parts - and it seems silly to quit
electronics DIY out of some sort of resentment (even if David's comment
was half in jest, just as an example), wouldn't it . There is nothing in
it for the manufacturers, hardly anyone buys that stuff.
One does not have to be a robot to solder SMT, to the contrary, one has
to acquire human-friendly techniques to be able to solder certain SMT parts.
And then, for anyone who already uses services like JLCPCB - adding SMT
mounting doesn't cost that much more, even though their stock is mostly
good for not too special parts only, the rest you'll have to do
yourself. But all the fiddly little resistors and ceramic caps, or
single SMT transistors - let them do it.
I did SMT early on, to 1) yes, make things smaller - whoever only wants
to do modules with all its own controls on it won't be impressed here,
but there are other ways of doing things ;)  2) to use parts that only
ever existed as SMT. Sometimes really small / fine pin pitch (where you
can drag-solder on the PCB, applying lots of flux before - no robot
work). Prototyping with that, I did not feel like a robot, more like an
electric surgeon. And using a microscope when I was 30, it won't make me
feel extra old when I need it for more things than used to once 50, I
guess ;)


> And at that scale, the rework is also not hard, and I think it's far
> easier to actually properly desolder SMT parts than through hole.
There it would seem that smaller parts are easier - heat it all up with
the hot air station (the cheap ATTEN 858D+ does it),
which would seem difficult with SOIC of that pin count. (OK it's also
not fun with e.g. UFQFPN with a nasty thermal sink in the middle)

IIRC I never de-soldered a SOIC - how *do* you do that? Flux and wick
still leaves a little bit of connecting solder on many pins at the same
time?
I faintly remember once using a piece of lacquer insulated copper wire,
dragging it under the first heated pin in line, then the next, and so
forth, where the wire keeps the pins from the pads. That was not as big
a part, though.




From modular at go2.pl  Thu May 20 11:03:23 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:03:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3129bf2-2abd-4c0a-05ce-b21ee48fd6ff@go2.pl>

So they finally did it! I was asking them for such part years ago, as 
probably many others did too.
Too bad it's only available in SOIC though. A 3mm QFN would have been nicer.
I know I can abuse SSI2130 for this, but that's still 32 pin part, while 
all I need is maybe 6 or so. Then it would fit in 2mm VSON...

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-19 o?23:06, Ben Bradley via Synth-diy pisze:
> At least the LM13700 is available for a while still, and from a "major 
> distributor." If anything, this might be an opportunity to "invest" in a 
> few to sell after they're discontinued.
> 
> I'll happily take DIP going away if it would help availability of more 
> of these new/newly remanufactured chips. I looked on the Alfa Rpar site 
> and saw the AS3341, essentially?the exponential converter section of the 
> AS/CEM3340 oscillator with the expo current brought out to a pin. I've 
> got some good ideas for this, but I'd have to be able to buy it. There 
> are boutique distributors that have some of these new and newly remade 
> parts, but none that I've seen carrying a manufacturer's whole line. I'd 
> email the manufacturer but I doubt I could afford the MOQ, and I'd 
> rather not become a boutique reseller myself. I see ebay has sellers of 
> the AS3340 and such, but not the AS3341.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From chris at chrismusic.de  Thu May 20 11:04:36 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:04:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
References: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
 <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:07:19 +0200 Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> > And at that scale, the rework is also not hard, and I think it's far
> > easier to actually properly desolder SMT parts than through hole.
> There it would seem that smaller parts are easier - heat it all up with
> the hot air station (the cheap ATTEN 858D+ does it),
> which would seem difficult with SOIC of that pin count. (OK it's also
> not fun with e.g. UFQFPN with a nasty thermal sink in the middle)
> 
> IIRC I never de-soldered a SOIC - how *do* you do that? Flux and wick
> still leaves a little bit of connecting solder on many pins at the same
> time?
> I faintly remember once using a piece of lacquer insulated copper wire,
> dragging it under the first heated pin in line, then the next, and so
> forth, where the wire keeps the pins from the pads. That was not as big
> a part, though.

Using hot air this is easier than I had expected.

I once had to desolder a finger nail sized TQFP Atmel Mega 64, and it
was a breeze. I had suspected everything around would float away, but it
was possible to work exactly where I wanted. Only took a couple of
seconds.

I'd rather do that than suck-wicking a DIL-40.

Chris



From dh at atoav.com  Thu May 20 11:07:39 2021
From: dh at atoav.com (dh at atoav.com)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:07:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
 <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
 <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <037fa38b-5ede-e388-d282-827888729004@atoav.com>



On 20.05.21 11:04, chris wrote:
> Using hot air this is easier than I had expected.

I would totally recommend trying out to use solder paste + hot air.
Having those parts float into place is pure magic.


From modular at go2.pl  Thu May 20 11:08:24 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:08:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <40438f6d-6de4-211d-bf67-4cbfb532d310@go2.pl>

Thunderbird gives me 3 options: reply to you, to all, or to the list.
And when using "reply to all" list email is also included...
You are probably forced at work to use Microsoft Office Outlook 11, so 
it may look different at your side.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-19 o?22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy pisze:

> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this 
> forum?? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to 
> the whole list.? Not anymore.? Now I have to find the list name in my 
> address book and add it manually.? Please change it back.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------


From modular at go2.pl  Thu May 20 11:17:04 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:17:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
 <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
 <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <0317fe1b-57df-1e55-bfcf-98e7e206fe27@go2.pl>

With special tip I'm able to desolder SOIC16 within 5 seconds or so. Not 
doable with DIP, although there are also special tips for DIP, at least 
I have seen one in the 80's.
It's hard to have every possible tip for every possible package, so hot 
air comes handy. Recently I have desoldered a few TQFP44. Took a minute 
or two, no damage to traces, which is important as and it was done 
several times on the same PCB.
I have tried also the thin stainless wire method, but it takes more 
practice and needs room around the chip to operate the wire.
At one trade show years ago I have seen a guy desoldering SOIC with 
DenOn SC7000 but I was never able to do that.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-20 o?11:04, chris pisze:
> On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:07:19 +0200 Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
>>> And at that scale, the rework is also not hard, and I think it's far
>>> easier to actually properly desolder SMT parts than through hole.
>> There it would seem that smaller parts are easier - heat it all up with
>> the hot air station (the cheap ATTEN 858D+ does it),
>> which would seem difficult with SOIC of that pin count. (OK it's also
>> not fun with e.g. UFQFPN with a nasty thermal sink in the middle)
>>
>> IIRC I never de-soldered a SOIC - how *do* you do that? Flux and wick
>> still leaves a little bit of connecting solder on many pins at the same
>> time?
>> I faintly remember once using a piece of lacquer insulated copper wire,
>> dragging it under the first heated pin in line, then the next, and so
>> forth, where the wire keeps the pins from the pads. That was not as big
>> a part, though.
> 
> Using hot air this is easier than I had expected.
> 
> I once had to desolder a finger nail sized TQFP Atmel Mega 64, and it
> was a breeze. I had suspected everything around would float away, but it
> was possible to work exactly where I wanted. Only took a couple of
> seconds.
> 
> I'd rather do that than suck-wicking a DIL-40.
> 
> Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From markverbos at gmail.com  Thu May 20 13:08:43 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 13:08:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxL2O0Qki0FvGzbnfUqV2YOJ+opV=dfsX+-Rz96S7pRAkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
 <CACZGMxL2O0Qki0FvGzbnfUqV2YOJ+opV=dfsX+-Rz96S7pRAkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <733CAF51-B2C8-4945-A6E0-261293075D4A@gmail.com>

Nice.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085L8SK7Z/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B085L8SK7Z&pd_rd_w=Y45GP&pf_rd_p=e7ef8ad2-57b7-4409-a54f-7b57563da2eb&pd_rd_wg=7SmYp&pf_rd_r=6JKBKJK46Q8A97XYPM8Z&pd_rd_r=e6a5241a-4e69-4308-ad80-5d9e9aac850d&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUzdPSjNBS1JXNkQmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NTY3MDEzQVowWUU2WllUWVpaJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxNzczODcyQTFSWjczU0RTTjRIJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==



> On May 19, 2021, at 9:51 PM, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
>> what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!
> 
> There are:
> https://www.amazon.com/ALLSOCKET-SOP16-5-4-1-27-Programming-Validation-1-27-01/dp/B06XDKKNLS/ref=sr_1_32
> 
> or similar.
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From markverbos at gmail.com  Thu May 20 13:12:18 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 13:12:18 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <55305D1A-D716-4661-B7FA-121FB4662829@gmail.com>

I agree, and as I have said before, most of the messages now have ?synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>? as the sender in my mail reader so I can no longer select to read or not read based on the sender. I don?t like it. 

Mark







> On May 19, 2021, at 10:10 PM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
> 

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From markverbos at gmail.com  Thu May 20 13:15:11 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 13:15:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0EEBF628-0440-4726-91B1-47DF38A89729@gmail.com>

Ben,

I saw the announcement of this chip on the Alfa site, but I couldn?t think of a use for it. What would one do with that? I guess replace the whole expo section (summing opamp, matched pair, temperature compensation, servo) of an existing VCO?

Mark




> On May 19, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Ben Bradley via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> At least the LM13700 is available for a while still, and from a "major distributor." If anything, this might be an opportunity to "invest" in a few to sell after they're discontinued.
> 
> I'll happily take DIP going away if it would help availability of more of these new/newly remanufactured chips. I looked on the Alfa Rpar site and saw the AS3341, essentially the exponential converter section of the AS/CEM3340 oscillator with the expo current brought out to a pin. I've got some good ideas for this, but I'd have to be able to buy it. There are boutique distributors that have some of these new and newly remade parts, but none that I've seen carrying a manufacturer's whole line. I'd email the manufacturer but I doubt I could afford the MOQ, and I'd rather not become a boutique reseller myself. I see ebay has sellers of the AS3340 and such, but not the AS3341.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Thu May 20 13:32:31 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 12:32:31 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <0EEBF628-0440-4726-91B1-47DF38A89729@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CA+wjhVt7CBStD+XGw5VUpL=3YM12hjvULt6=BUYPotni9nKfRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0EEBF628-0440-4726-91B1-47DF38A89729@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eab8de3f-9740-09a9-471f-5598e32bb906@bendentech.co.uk>

On 20/05/2021 12:15, mark verbos via Synth-diy wrote:

> I saw the announcement of this chip on the Alfa site, but I couldn?t think of a use for it. What would one do with that? I guess replace the whole expo section (summing opamp, matched pair, temperature compensation, servo) of an existing VCO?

My reading of it is that you could use the AS3341 anywhere you used to 
use the long-lamented uA726. It is effectively a temperature-compensated 
matched pair of transistors, but whereas the 726 burns power to keep the 
pair at a constant temperature, the 3341 uses circuitry to modify the CV 
to track whatever temperature the pair happens to be at.

There are lots of classic synth circuits using the uA726: Elektor 
Formant, Roland JP-4, Teisco S110F/SX400 and so on. It gives you more 
freedom to do something a bit different, which is useful now every man 
and his dog can build a CEM3340-based poly.

>> On May 19, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Ben Bradley via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'll happily take DIP going away if it would help availability of more of these new/newly remanufactured chips. I looked on the Alfa Rpar site and saw the AS3341, essentially the exponential converter section of the AS/CEM3340 oscillator with the expo current brought out to a pin. I've got some good ideas for this, but I'd have to be able to buy it. There are boutique distributors that have some of these new and newly remade parts, but none that I've seen carrying a manufacturer's whole line. I'd email the manufacturer but I doubt I could afford the MOQ, and I'd rather not become a boutique reseller myself. I see ebay has sellers of the AS3340 and such, but not the AS3341.

The AS3341 datasheet is marked "Preliminary", so perhaps it has not been 
released to the market yet. One would hope that the small distributors 
that carry Alfa parts will list them when they are or, at the very 
least, be able to source them to order.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound Technology


From ben at stuyts.nl  Thu May 20 16:49:37 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 16:49:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>

David,

> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>  
> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually.  Please change it back.

I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> and adds a REPLY-TO: <original.sender at some.where <mailto:original.sender at some.where>>.

On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
 
It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html

Ben

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From ben at stuyts.nl  Thu May 20 16:58:35 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 16:58:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <55305D1A-D716-4661-B7FA-121FB4662829@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <55305D1A-D716-4661-B7FA-121FB4662829@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E256958C-20CA-4646-B9BB-6B073101AAD1@stuyts.nl>

Mark,

> On 20 May 2021, at 13:12, mark verbos via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> I agree, and as I have said before, most of the messages now have ?synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>? as the sender in my mail reader so I can no longer select to read or not read based on the sender. I don?t like it. 

I definitely see the inconvenience in that, but I do not have a solution. (See my other message for the reason for this.)

It?s a problem for many mailing lists. If there are Mailman (V2) guru?s here I?m open to suggestions. I have to upgrade to V3 anyway, but I don?t think it would handle this in a better way.

Ben

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From ben at stuyts.nl  Thu May 20 17:44:27 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 17:44:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>

Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC

Ben


> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>>  
>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
> 
> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> and adds a REPLY-TO: <original.sender at some.where <mailto:original.sender at some.where>>.
> 
> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>  
> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html>
> 
> Ben
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From list at mikebeauchamp.com  Thu May 20 18:02:23 2021
From: list at mikebeauchamp.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 12:02:23 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>



On 5/19/21 8:06 AM, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> 12, 2022:
>     https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf

Thanks for the heads up Matthew,

Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the 
SMT version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing 
the actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?

Mike



From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu May 20 18:09:14 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 17:09:14 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxLPzzz_MxtWMv+b2o7keHAEmfcPOJEE0gxZZfMFTYXg8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike,

On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 17:04, Mike Beauchamp <list at mikebeauchamp.com> wrote:
> On 5/19/21 8:06 AM, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> > It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> > version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> > discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> > 12, 2022:
> >     https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
>
> Thanks for the heads up Matthew,
>
> Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the
> SMT version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing
> the actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?

My *guess* is that the demand for the DIP package is not enough to
justify running a separate package line, so they're EOLing it.
Packaging is a very expensive part of the chip production, so why run
a whole package line when sales don't justify it?

Neil


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 20 18:39:43 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 16:39:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>,
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
Message-ID: <ivyt0pm3yqdulupb0ixn9g8q.1621528775193@email.android.com>

I expect you'll find most if not all TI parts going ST only over next year or so. It may even be they've stopped already and just selling DIP from stock.


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Beauchamp
Date:20/05/2021 17:04 (GMT+00:00)
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation



On 5/19/21 8:06 AM, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> 12, 2022:
>     https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf

Thanks for the heads up Matthew,

Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the
SMT version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing
the actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?

Mike

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu May 20 18:53:42 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 17:53:42 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <ivyt0pm3yqdulupb0ixn9g8q.1621528775193@email.android.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <ivyt0pm3yqdulupb0ixn9g8q.1621528775193@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJDySFvc63Pdh-iseVvDgsWWzuKjFg048Hwnh+0uv2osQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Bryant wrote:
> I expect you'll find most if not all TI parts going ST only over next year or so. It may even be they've stopped already and just selling DIP from stock.

Quite possibly.  All the fun new stuff is in SMT-only packages these days.

Neil


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 20 19:25:48 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 19:25:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <0317fe1b-57df-1e55-bfcf-98e7e206fe27@go2.pl>
References: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
 <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
 <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <0317fe1b-57df-1e55-bfcf-98e7e206fe27@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--Ru+To4dfYtykuyPZDkp1y6J9LEYV4nFEG55OHCW_TLQ@mail.gmail.com>

One thing being forgotten here is that SMT allows much easier repair
if parts are spaced the same as they would be on a through-hole board.
If you make a board with footprints for both TH and SMD, and populate
it with SMD, that's super spacy. The "difficulty" of repairing SMT
boards is that they are extremely miniaturized, which means they are
super packed. Obviously you'll have problems repairing those. But if
you're choosing TH only because it forces you to use a larger PCB, you
might as well use a PCB of that same size with SMD, and they'll
actually be easier to work on because of the additional space margins.

In addition to hot air, wick, and wire methods, I'd like to mention
the following.

First of all, when using wick, make sure you don't just unroll it. It
comes compressed. You have to spread it out so that all the tiny
strands are separate, rather than one solid bundle. So make sure to
press it together length-wise so it spreads apart radially.

There's also quartz pre heaters. Those are great. You can just use a
toaster oven with a PID.

There are those rubberized heating elements. You stick it on the
underside of the PCB, and it heats it. Similar to the things used for
heating the oil pan in a truck, but here they're much smaller.

Finally, there's desoldering foil. I've never seen it demonstrated. I
think it's spring steel foil, and what it does is it acts like a knife
that you slide under the pins to get parts off.

By far the most common thing I've seen is hot air. You point a hot air
gun on whatever you want to desolder, and slightly poke it with a
stick every now and then until it's ready to move. Then you just move
it off. Doesn't matter how much solder is present - it'll melt, and
then you move the part off to the side a little, and then you pick it
up and off, either with tweezers or with a vacuum grabber.

Good luck

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 11:20 AM Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>
> With special tip I'm able to desolder SOIC16 within 5 seconds or so. Not
> doable with DIP, although there are also special tips for DIP, at least
> I have seen one in the 80's.
> It's hard to have every possible tip for every possible package, so hot
> air comes handy. Recently I have desoldered a few TQFP44. Took a minute
> or two, no damage to traces, which is important as and it was done
> several times on the same PCB.
> I have tried also the thin stainless wire method, but it takes more
> practice and needs room around the chip to operate the wire.
> At one trade show years ago I have seen a guy desoldering SOIC with
> DenOn SC7000 but I was never able to do that.
>
> Roman
>
> W dniu 2021-05-20 o 11:04, chris pisze:
> > On Thu, 20 May 2021 10:07:19 +0200 Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> >>> And at that scale, the rework is also not hard, and I think it's far
> >>> easier to actually properly desolder SMT parts than through hole.
> >> There it would seem that smaller parts are easier - heat it all up with
> >> the hot air station (the cheap ATTEN 858D+ does it),
> >> which would seem difficult with SOIC of that pin count. (OK it's also
> >> not fun with e.g. UFQFPN with a nasty thermal sink in the middle)
> >>
> >> IIRC I never de-soldered a SOIC - how *do* you do that? Flux and wick
> >> still leaves a little bit of connecting solder on many pins at the same
> >> time?
> >> I faintly remember once using a piece of lacquer insulated copper wire,
> >> dragging it under the first heated pin in line, then the next, and so
> >> forth, where the wire keeps the pins from the pads. That was not as big
> >> a part, though.
> >
> > Using hot air this is easier than I had expected.
> >
> > I once had to desolder a finger nail sized TQFP Atmel Mega 64, and it
> > was a breeze. I had suspected everything around would float away, but it
> > was possible to work exactly where I wanted. Only took a couple of
> > seconds.
> >
> > I'd rather do that than suck-wicking a DIL-40.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 20 19:32:49 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 19:32:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply headers
In-Reply-To: <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9SnW9Ap2Ou2fPCUW3gCNq-cKzjeCeNuCzmX-a4HtB+nw@mail.gmail.com>

Some stuff has been changed recently because our list's emails started
being flagged as phishing attempts. So while the old way is not possible
any more, maybe the new way can be fixed up.

If you go to an email received from the list, look at its original version
(including all the headers). For example, your email had these two headers
(among hundreds others):

From: David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Reply-To: David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>

Doing "reply to all" should include both. That's what it did here: for me
it included both you and the list. You're in the To: address and the list
in the Cc: address. Why it doesn't do that for you is hard to tell. Maybe
it's a configuration setting in your client. Try looking into that.

Maybe the headers can be changed a little to accommodate. Not sure.

Cheers


On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:15 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this
> forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the
> whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address
> book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
>
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From chromatest at azburners.org  Thu May 20 19:36:28 2021
From: chromatest at azburners.org (Chromatest J. Pantsmaker)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 10:36:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reply headers
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9SnW9Ap2Ou2fPCUW3gCNq-cKzjeCeNuCzmX-a4HtB+nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-9SnW9Ap2Ou2fPCUW3gCNq-cKzjeCeNuCzmX-a4HtB+nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADpm=3FO6WrY+B8ROQotiRjQZEBonjCihFAoPmLzc=WJJsxjAw@mail.gmail.com>

When I hit "reply all" in gmail, it is sent to cheater cheater, and CC'd to
david dixon and the list.

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:34 AM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Some stuff has been changed recently because our list's emails started
> being flagged as phishing attempts. So while the old way is not possible
> any more, maybe the new way can be fixed up.
>
> If you go to an email received from the list, look at its original version
> (including all the headers). For example, your email had these two headers
> (among hundreds others):
>
> From: David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Reply-To: David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
>
> Doing "reply to all" should include both. That's what it did here: for me
> it included both you and the list. You're in the To: address and the list
> in the Cc: address. Why it doesn't do that for you is hard to tell. Maybe
> it's a configuration setting in your client. Try looking into that.
>
> Maybe the headers can be changed a little to accommodate. Not sure.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:15 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this
>> forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the
>> whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address
>> book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu May 20 20:03:06 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 11:03:06 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reply headers
In-Reply-To: <CADpm=3FO6WrY+B8ROQotiRjQZEBonjCihFAoPmLzc=WJJsxjAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-9SnW9Ap2Ou2fPCUW3gCNq-cKzjeCeNuCzmX-a4HtB+nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADpm=3FO6WrY+B8ROQotiRjQZEBonjCihFAoPmLzc=WJJsxjAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FFA6027E4D6C4B4485F2FAA4F370FCF7@david78c70950b>

Hi All,
 
I think it is working now.  It might have just been a problem with one or
two messages.  I just hit Reply to All and it cc'ed the list, so that's
fine.
 
Please disregard my previous comments.
 
Cheers,
Dave Dixon

  _____  

From: Chromatest J. Pantsmaker [mailto:chromatest at azburners.org] 
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:36 AM
To: cheater cheater
Cc: David G Dixon; synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reply headers


[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]	
When I hit "reply all" in gmail, it is sent to cheater cheater, and CC'd to
david dixon and the list.

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:34 AM cheater cheater via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:


Some stuff has been changed recently because our list's emails started being
flagged as phishing attempts. So while the old way is not possible any more,
maybe the new way can be fixed up.

If you go to an email received from the list, look at its original version
(including all the headers). For example, your email had these two headers
(among hundreds others):

From: David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>

Reply-To: David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
Doing "reply to all" should include both. That's what it did here: for me it
included both you and the list. You're in the To: address and the list in
the Cc: address. Why it doesn't do that for you is hard to tell. Maybe it's
a configuration setting in your client. Try looking into that.

Maybe the headers can be changed a little to accommodate. Not sure.


Cheers



On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:15 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?
I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole
list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and
add it manually.  Please change it back.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 20 20:10:07 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 18:10:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJDySFvc63Pdh-iseVvDgsWWzuKjFg048Hwnh+0uv2osQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <ivyt0pm3yqdulupb0ixn9g8q.1621528775193@email.android.com>,
 <CACZGMxJDySFvc63Pdh-iseVvDgsWWzuKjFg048Hwnh+0uv2osQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <x9j0jeimnigknav711s6lrhb.1621534199279@email.android.com>

You mean TL072s ??


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: Neil Johnson
Date:20/05/2021 17:54 (GMT+00:00)
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Mike Beauchamp , synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Mike Bryant wrote:
> I expect you'll find most if not all TI parts going ST only over next year or so. It may even be they've stopped already and just selling DIP from stock.

Quite possibly.  All the fun new stuff is in SMT-only packages these days.

Neil

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From mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca  Thu May 20 20:15:15 2021
From: mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca (mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 14:15:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>

On Thu, 20 May 2021, Mike Beauchamp wrote:
> Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the SMT
> version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing the
> actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?

Everything ends eventually.  Small analog functions like OTAs in general
may be on borrowed time.  Also, there's been talk in this thread of how
SOICs are no harder to hand-solder than DIPs; even if we agree on that,
SOICs will not remain available forever either.  To a first approximation,
nobody builds electronics by hand anymore.  Those of us right here who
actually do, are way below the noise floor of an outfit like Texas
Instruments.  And the consequence is that some day the only chips
available will be chips that only robots can work with.

But the product change notice for this says it's because they're
discontinuing the "die attach" used by the LM13700N at a particular
factory - and lists a few other DIP products that don't seem to be closely
related except that they also use that particular process at that factory.
So I don't think it's an issue of TI wanting to stop making the LM13700
silicon more generally, nor even all DIPs in general - it's just one
production process at one factory that they want to shut down.  The DIP
LM13700N just happens to be a product affected by that decision.  I don't
think it brings the death of the SOIC version any closer; it might even
extend the lifetime of the SOIC version if a lot of people who were buying
the DIP version end up switching to the SOIC version and boosting that
product's sales.

-- 
Matthew Skala
mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 20 20:35:15 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 20:35:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply headers
In-Reply-To: <FFA6027E4D6C4B4485F2FAA4F370FCF7@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-9SnW9Ap2Ou2fPCUW3gCNq-cKzjeCeNuCzmX-a4HtB+nw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADpm=3FO6WrY+B8ROQotiRjQZEBonjCihFAoPmLzc=WJJsxjAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <FFA6027E4D6C4B4485F2FAA4F370FCF7@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_pBP4O4JauWoikO+hyiAHppyHvNi6gJvd4MRJrkoDbtg@mail.gmail.com>

Glad that's been solved!

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 8:03 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I think it is working now.  It might have just been a problem with one or two messages.  I just hit Reply to All and it cc'ed the list, so that's fine.
>
> Please disregard my previous comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chromatest J. Pantsmaker [mailto:chromatest at azburners.org]
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:36 AM
> To: cheater cheater
> Cc: David G Dixon; synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Reply headers
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
> When I hit "reply all" in gmail, it is sent to cheater cheater, and CC'd to david dixon and the list.
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:34 AM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Some stuff has been changed recently because our list's emails started being flagged as phishing attempts. So while the old way is not possible any more, maybe the new way can be fixed up.
>>
>> If you go to an email received from the list, look at its original version (including all the headers). For example, your email had these two headers (among hundreds others):
>>
>> From: David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> Reply-To: David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
>>
>> Doing "reply to all" should include both. That's what it did here: for me it included both you and the list. You're in the To: address and the list in the Cc: address. Why it doesn't do that for you is hard to tell. Maybe it's a configuration setting in your client. Try looking into that.
>>
>> Maybe the headers can be changed a little to accommodate. Not sure.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 10:15 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 20 20:37:27 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 20:37:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--cePuNTnY4diqE9ym2yFMZJOQyncw0rRLx8Uu_OfwNOg@mail.gmail.com>

Honestly though how difficult can it be to build a P&P? Isn't it very
similar to 3D printer technology, just less Z-axis movement?

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 8:18 PM <mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 20 May 2021, Mike Beauchamp wrote:
> > Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the SMT
> > version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing the
> > actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?
>
> Everything ends eventually.  Small analog functions like OTAs in general
> may be on borrowed time.  Also, there's been talk in this thread of how
> SOICs are no harder to hand-solder than DIPs; even if we agree on that,
> SOICs will not remain available forever either.  To a first approximation,
> nobody builds electronics by hand anymore.  Those of us right here who
> actually do, are way below the noise floor of an outfit like Texas
> Instruments.  And the consequence is that some day the only chips
> available will be chips that only robots can work with.
>
> But the product change notice for this says it's because they're
> discontinuing the "die attach" used by the LM13700N at a particular
> factory - and lists a few other DIP products that don't seem to be closely
> related except that they also use that particular process at that factory.
> So I don't think it's an issue of TI wanting to stop making the LM13700
> silicon more generally, nor even all DIPs in general - it's just one
> production process at one factory that they want to shut down.  The DIP
> LM13700N just happens to be a product affected by that decision.  I don't
> think it brings the death of the SOIC version any closer; it might even
> extend the lifetime of the SOIC version if a lot of people who were buying
> the DIP version end up switching to the SOIC version and boosting that
> product's sales.
>
> --
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 20 20:50:22 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 20:50:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>

David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:
>
> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>
> Ben
>
>
> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum?  I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list.  Not anymore.  Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually.  Please change it back.
>
>
> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> and adds a REPLY-TO: <original.sender at some.where>.
>
> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>
> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Thu May 20 21:08:50 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 15:08:50 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] New Pulse Module, other uses for the AS3341
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVsjp3brFnKxzQ-p4FMNQTpOLx6=eTMAp2=wfCuV6pAAgw@mail.gmail.com>

This goes back to an idea I did many years ago (circa 1980). I made
some cheap oscillators using 555 timers, with the control voltage
going through a resistor to the timing capacitor of the 555. This made
a crude VCO. One thing I did was have the output trigger a fixed-delay
monostable 555 circuit that had a time delay shorter than the period
of the frequencies I was generating. This gave a constant-time pulse
width output regardless of the frequency/pitch of the input. The sound
was remarkably "resonant" as the pitch varied, though it was only a
rectangular waveform output, and I never would have thought such a
waveform could sound so "resonant" if I hadn't heard it.

My thought with the AS3341 is to use its current output to the
capacitor of a one-shot like the appropriately wired 555 to do
something similar. If you have the AS3341's control voltage at a fixed
value, you get the situation described above. If you have the control
voltage tied to the same control voltage as the oscillator, the pulse
will get proportionally shorter at higher frequency, thus the output
would be the "standard" pulse witdth of modern oscillators, a fixed
percentage of the waveform period. If you have the control voltage
track at less than the oscillator's control voltage (like many synths
allow for filter tracking - the Miinimoog has two switches for 1/3 and
2/3 tracking, or both on for full tracking. I recall the Micromoog has
a pot for 0 to 100 percent tracking), then the pulse percentage will
vary with pitch, giving an in-between sound from the constant-time
pulse width and the fixed-percentage pulse width.

There's the question of what to do when the oscillator's period is
shorter than the pulser's time period. Having it retrigerrable
wouldn't be very interesting, as it would only give a very short (and
perhaps barely audible) output pulse. The 555 is (or at least I
happened to have had it wired this way, I forget) non-retriggerable,
and so it didn't regrigger untile the next pulse after it was done.
When the pitch went above this, the output would be an octave lower,
or as the input pitch went up higher, an octave-and-a-fifth or two
octaves lower than the input pitch. I'm not sure if this is "ideal"
operation, but it's at least interesting. But this is sort of
"abberant operation" and not as interesting as when the period is
lower than the pulse time.

I've had other more traditional" things I've wanted to make such as a
triangle-core oscillator, and having read through so many designs and
schematics over the years, it's clear the exponential converter is
biggest source of pitch problem in oscillators, so having everything
done (presumably) well in the AS3341 would be a big advantage in
making a good oscillator.

>mark verbos <markverbos at gmail.com>
>
7:15 AM (7 hours ago)
to me, synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>Ben,
>
>I saw the announcement of this chip on the Alfa site, but I couldn?t think of a use for it. What would one do with that? I guess replace the whole expo section (summing opamp, matched pair, temperature compensation, servo) of an existing VCO?

>Mark



From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Thu May 20 21:53:20 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 21:53:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--Ru+To4dfYtykuyPZDkp1y6J9LEYV4nFEG55OHCW_TLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aSgDB8cqJ9P9RyACDb62AowqwkVIhbv9BrCdCNEy3CYTrtNw0VmkXo7PZ7hYIhbBEi0gtFVO02jdcd9S3NpP5TQOrrchOQdGvSDJYS5pTDA=@protonmail.com>
 <282e8315-c8f7-a633-4a41-0bece4ad6783@gmx.de>
 <20210520105403.C3F9.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <0317fe1b-57df-1e55-bfcf-98e7e206fe27@go2.pl>
 <CAGn5V--Ru+To4dfYtykuyPZDkp1y6J9LEYV4nFEG55OHCW_TLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f6d7fe1-8809-b99d-1e29-13195b631376@gmx.de>

cheater cheater via Synth-diy:
> First of all, when using wick, make sure you don't just unroll it. It
> comes compressed. You have to spread it out so that all the tiny
> strands are separate, rather than one solid bundle. So make sure to
> press it together length-wise so it spreads apart radially.
dipping it in fluid no-clean flux before the action also helps somewhat



From modular at go2.pl  Thu May 20 22:17:01 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 22:17:01 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <c63290f0-dca0-f6ed-f019-21193d2e7621@go2.pl>

I remember the time I first saw SOIC package, it was uA741 that 
accidently became available in local electronics store. It looked so 
cute! But it was the only chip in SMD out there. Normally I would cut 
the leads of DIP parts and solder them as SMT, but this little fellow 
was amazingly small.
Today, about 30 years later, the oposite happens - it's much more 
difficult to find needed part in DIP rather than 10 versions of SMD.

Think about people being born today, what will they do in their 20's? 
Will there be any synth diy movement at all? Hard to say, but if there 
will be, those people will probably not even know what a DIP is, and 
SOIC will be considered as "huge and bulky".

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-20 o?20:15, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca pisze:
> On Thu, 20 May 2021, Mike Beauchamp wrote:
>> Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the SMT
>> version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing the
>> actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?
> Everything ends eventually.  Small analog functions like OTAs in general
> may be on borrowed time.  Also, there's been talk in this thread of how
> SOICs are no harder to hand-solder than DIPs; even if we agree on that,
> SOICs will not remain available forever either.  To a first approximation,
> nobody builds electronics by hand anymore.  Those of us right here who
> actually do, are way below the noise floor of an outfit like Texas
> Instruments.  And the consequence is that some day the only chips
> available will be chips that only robots can work with.
>
> But the product change notice for this says it's because they're
> discontinuing the "die attach" used by the LM13700N at a particular
> factory - and lists a few other DIP products that don't seem to be closely
> related except that they also use that particular process at that factory.
> So I don't think it's an issue of TI wanting to stop making the LM13700
> silicon more generally, nor even all DIPs in general - it's just one
> production process at one factory that they want to shut down.  The DIP
> LM13700N just happens to be a product affected by that decision.  I don't
> think it brings the death of the SOIC version any closer; it might even
> extend the lifetime of the SOIC version if a lot of people who were buying
> the DIP version end up switching to the SOIC version and boosting that
> product's sales.
>



From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu May 20 23:14:59 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 22:14:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <x9j0jeimnigknav711s6lrhb.1621534199279@email.android.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <ivyt0pm3yqdulupb0ixn9g8q.1621528775193@email.android.com>
 <CACZGMxJDySFvc63Pdh-iseVvDgsWWzuKjFg048Hwnh+0uv2osQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <x9j0jeimnigknav711s6lrhb.1621534199279@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxLq7v-+zS3sAFL7i287mKGBYxivHuLLsZ7szZALTasoAw@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Bryant wrote:

> You mean TL072s ??
>

Lol!

The LMV358A is a surprisingly good opamp for 70uA/ch.  The TLV9152 is an
amazing opamp but a but toasty at 560uA/ch, its baby brother the TLV9102 is
leaner at 120uA/ch.

All good toys for half decent battery powered audio kit.

Neil
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From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Thu May 20 23:34:12 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 17:34:12 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c63290f0-dca0-f6ed-f019-21193d2e7621@go2.pl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c63290f0-dca0-f6ed-f019-21193d2e7621@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVu+6mqHpyi3ePSoOb1X8bXjMviahG3cFsgQyCMe9kD+fg@mail.gmail.com>

I've used several "impossible to solder" chips only because they're
available already soldered to breakout boards from Adafruit and
Sparkfun, AND they're popular enough with experimenters for these
companies to offer them that way inexpensively. They don't have
synth-specific chips, but I haven't seen a great need yet. I'd hope
manufacturers would make such chips available on breakout boards as
samples or at least moderately priced (as opposed to some of the eval
boards which can be rather expensive). I've seen some services that
you send them a chip and they'll solder it to a breakout board, but
that gets to be expensive and time-consuming (you buy the chip, it
gets shipped to you, you shi[ it to the service,they solder to the
board and ship it to you).

Prototyping and making one-offs won't be as easy as they have been,
but it'll still be possible for those with enough determination.

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 4:20 PM Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>
> I remember the time I first saw SOIC package, it was uA741 that
> accidently became available in local electronics store. It looked so
> cute! But it was the only chip in SMD out there. Normally I would cut
> the leads of DIP parts and solder them as SMT, but this little fellow
> was amazingly small.
> Today, about 30 years later, the oposite happens - it's much more
> difficult to find needed part in DIP rather than 10 versions of SMD.
>
> Think about people being born today, what will they do in their 20's?
> Will there be any synth diy movement at all? Hard to say, but if there
> will be, those people will probably not even know what a DIP is, and
> SOIC will be considered as "huge and bulky".
>
> Roman
>
> W dniu 2021-05-20 o 20:15, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca pisze:
> > On Thu, 20 May 2021, Mike Beauchamp wrote:
> >> Can anyone comment on what cancelling the DIP package might mean to the SMT
> >> version in the near future? I wonder if they are no longer producing the
> >> actual die, or just not bothering to put it in a DIP package?
> > Everything ends eventually.  Small analog functions like OTAs in general
> > may be on borrowed time.  Also, there's been talk in this thread of how
> > SOICs are no harder to hand-solder than DIPs; even if we agree on that,
> > SOICs will not remain available forever either.  To a first approximation,
> > nobody builds electronics by hand anymore.  Those of us right here who
> > actually do, are way below the noise floor of an outfit like Texas
> > Instruments.  And the consequence is that some day the only chips
> > available will be chips that only robots can work with.
> >
> > But the product change notice for this says it's because they're
> > discontinuing the "die attach" used by the LM13700N at a particular
> > factory - and lists a few other DIP products that don't seem to be closely
> > related except that they also use that particular process at that factory.
> > So I don't think it's an issue of TI wanting to stop making the LM13700
> > silicon more generally, nor even all DIPs in general - it's just one
> > production process at one factory that they want to shut down.  The DIP
> > LM13700N just happens to be a product affected by that decision.  I don't
> > think it brings the death of the SOIC version any closer; it might even
> > extend the lifetime of the SOIC version if a lot of people who were buying
> > the DIP version end up switching to the SOIC version and boosting that
> > product's sales.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Thu May 20 23:51:53 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 17:51:53 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My new dotcom module.. M114 Dual CV-GATE delay
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAK2cWzlEad5FrtvhbExtpLPCgAAAEAAAAELXlgdGCH1EsAl4q2/hg6QBAAAAAA==@oricom.ca>

Hi all,

 

After some 6 months of hard work and with the precious help
of Roman Sowa (member of this DIY forum) I finally went through
the final tests and am very happy to introduce my new born M114
which is a Dual 2msec to 10sec CV-GATE delay.
Whatever CV/GATE comes in will be stored and sent back
with a specific dialled delay.
All this design?s traffic is made around talking SPI devices which are:

- 1 x 64k x 8 SPI SRAM
- 2 x 16 bits SPI ADC

- 2 x 16 bits SPI DAC

 

Storing the incoming GATE pulses and restoring them delayed was easy task,
but the most tedious part was to actually store the 2 incoming 
CV voltages in 16bits chunks without losing any precision.

Well Roman Sowa came with a nice design of 2 SIP modules
that did the ADC and DAC conversion within +/1 LSB precision.
You can see some pictures below..
And.. as usual this is an open source project so all the needed files are available HERE <http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M114_CV-GATE_DELAY/> .

 

Enjoy !

Jean-Pierre

 

 



 



 



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From thresholdpeople at protonmail.com  Fri May 21 01:21:47 2021
From: thresholdpeople at protonmail.com (thresholdpeople)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 23:21:47 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>

The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.

-boris

??????? Original Message ???????

On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>
> > Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
> >
> > David,
> >
> > On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
> >
> > Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
> >
> > I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
> >
> > On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
> >
> > It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> >
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> >
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Fri May 21 03:51:01 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 21:51:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] My new dotcom module.. M114 Dual CV-GATE delay
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAK2cWzlEad5FrtvhbExtpLPCgAAAEAAAAELXlgdGCH1EsAl4q2/hg6QBAAAAAA==@oricom.ca>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAK2cWzlEad5FrtvhbExtpLPCgAAAEAAAAELXlgdGCH1EsAl4q2/hg6QBAAAAAA==@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UA7ZQp_r6+L71_fa1B44mYfX2Abmzae+=3yBYpM-45mjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Now there's an innovative module.

MC

On 5/20/21, Jean-Pierre Desrochers <jpdesroc at oricom.ca> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> After some 6 months of hard work and with the precious help
> of Roman Sowa (member of this DIY forum) I finally went through
> the final tests and am very happy to introduce my new born M114
> which is a Dual 2msec to 10sec CV-GATE delay.
> Whatever CV/GATE comes in will be stored and sent back
> with a specific dialled delay.
> All this design?s traffic is made around talking SPI devices which are:
>
> - 1 x 64k x 8 SPI SRAM
> - 2 x 16 bits SPI ADC
>
> - 2 x 16 bits SPI DAC
>
>
>
> Storing the incoming GATE pulses and restoring them delayed was easy task,
> but the most tedious part was to actually store the 2 incoming
> CV voltages in 16bits chunks without losing any precision.
>
> Well Roman Sowa came with a nice design of 2 SIP modules
> that did the ADC and DAC conversion within +/1 LSB precision.
> You can see some pictures below..
> And.. as usual this is an open source project so all the needed files are
> available HERE
> <http://www.arcenson.com/projects/Modular/M114_CV-GATE_DELAY/> .
>
>
>
> Enjoy !
>
> Jean-Pierre
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 21 11:39:47 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 11:39:47 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list
In-Reply-To: <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>

I have absolutely no problems like that. Sometimes it adds "via 
synthdiy" at the end, but sender's name is always visible - see 
attachment. No problem with replying to all, to the list, seeing who 
sent it, sorting by thread, anything...
Maybe because I'm using lame Thunderbird and not those fancy Microsoft 
or Apple products.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-21 o?01:21, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy pisze:
> The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
> 
> -boris
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> 
> On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
>> David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
>>
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>
>>> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
>>>
>>> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
>>>
>>> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>>>
>>> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
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From thresholdpeople at protonmail.com  Fri May 21 11:47:19 2021
From: thresholdpeople at protonmail.com (thresholdpeople)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 09:47:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list
In-Reply-To: <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
 <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <OOWEmsMWzU6_XZBkKGUUUgRMMcYeA9705quwYSbk3iLkVslbMtDNlvZOBRoyDZsluR7Kn14a5Qqwh00Not8yIR0ZG514-T3Weh-aYp-HIIs=@protonmail.com>

When i do reply all, that works as expected, and in the quoted chain down below it does as well. But when new emails come in, many people's names are aliased as synth-diy at synth-diy.org.

Roman, your's actually works, but for instance cheater's doesn't. Most people's doesn't. And I dunno about email clients. I just use the protonmail web interface, maybe it'd be different on a different client or email host..?

Boris

??????? Original Message ???????

On Friday, May 21st, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:

> I have absolutely no problems like that. Sometimes it adds "via
>
> synthdiy" at the end, but sender's name is always visible - see
>
> attachment. No problem with replying to all, to the list, seeing who
>
> sent it, sorting by thread, anything...
>
> Maybe because I'm using lame Thunderbird and not those fancy Microsoft
>
> or Apple products.
>
> Roman
>
> W dniu 2021-05-21 o?01:21, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy pisze:
>
> > The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
> >
> > -boris
> >
> > ??????? Original Message ???????
> >
> > On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
> >
> > > David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
> > >
> > > > Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David,
> > > >
> > > > On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
> > > >
> > > > I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
> > > >
> > > > On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
> > > >
> > > > It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > >
> > > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > >
> > > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > >
> > > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > > >
> > > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > >
> > > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > >
> > > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > >
> > > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > >
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > >
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > >
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > >
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> >
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From ben at stuyts.nl  Fri May 21 11:55:19 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 11:55:19 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <A86A89F0-28AB-4986-9D28-84D890F7A421@stuyts.nl>

As far as I remember, it has always been the case that a simple Reply would go to the sender and not to the list. This has not changed recently. I think this has been discussed several times over the past decades and this was the preferred behaviour.

Ben


> On 21 May 2021, at 01:21, thresholdpeople <thresholdpeople at protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
> 
> -boris
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> 
> On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
>> David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
>> 
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>> 
>>> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
>>> 
>>> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
>>> 
>>> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>>> 
>>> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> 
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> 
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> 
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 




From ben at stuyts.nl  Fri May 21 12:10:23 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 12:10:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list
In-Reply-To: <OOWEmsMWzU6_XZBkKGUUUgRMMcYeA9705quwYSbk3iLkVslbMtDNlvZOBRoyDZsluR7Kn14a5Qqwh00Not8yIR0ZG514-T3Weh-aYp-HIIs=@protonmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
 <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
 <OOWEmsMWzU6_XZBkKGUUUgRMMcYeA9705quwYSbk3iLkVslbMtDNlvZOBRoyDZsluR7Kn14a5Qqwh00Not8yIR0ZG514-T3Weh-aYp-HIIs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <1A00F43A-ACA5-4F1E-AD45-6481D67BEE7D@stuyts.nl>

As I tried to explain (badly perhaps), this rewriting of the From: header is sometimes necessary. DMARC is a policy for a domain which controls who is allowed to send mail for that domain.

Therefor certain domains have a DMARC policy that will not allow a message from e.g. Cheater (using gmail) to be sent from the synth-diy.org <http://synth-diy.org/> domain. This would start bouncing and/or get our server blacklisted. In that case, From: will be rewritten to "cheater cheater via synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>" and a Reply-To: with his real address will be added. (Which is perfectly legal in the DMARC system.) Because of the Reply-To: header, a simple Reply in your e-mail program will do the right thing and send the mail only to cheater. A Reply All will also pickup the list (and other) address from the From: and CC: headers. Roman?s domain does not use DMARC, so no rewriting is done.

DMARC is being used more and more, and that is why you see this rewriting also happening more often. Unfortunately this is the best workaround we have for now.

Use a DMARC checker if you want to see if your domain uses DMARC or not. (e.g. https://dmarcly.com/tools/dmarc-checker <https://dmarcly.com/tools/dmarc-checker>)

Ben


> On 21 May 2021, at 11:47, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> When i do reply all, that works as expected, and in the quoted chain down below it does as well. But when new emails come in, many people's names are aliased as synth-diy at synth-diy.org.
> 
> Roman, your's actually works, but for instance cheater's doesn't. Most people's doesn't. And I dunno about email clients. I just use the protonmail web interface, maybe it'd be different on a different client or email host..?
> 
> Boris
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> 
> On Friday, May 21st, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
>> I have absolutely no problems like that. Sometimes it adds "via
>> 
>> synthdiy" at the end, but sender's name is always visible - see
>> 
>> attachment. No problem with replying to all, to the list, seeing who
>> 
>> sent it, sorting by thread, anything...
>> 
>> Maybe because I'm using lame Thunderbird and not those fancy Microsoft
>> 
>> or Apple products.
>> 
>> Roman
>> 
>> W dniu 2021-05-21 o 01:21, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy pisze:
>> 
>>> The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
>>> 
>>> -boris
>>> 
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>> 
>>>> David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> David,
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben
>>>>> 
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>> 
>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> 
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>> 
>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>> 
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> 
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> 
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>> 
>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> 
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> 
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> 
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> 
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 

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From thresholdpeople at protonmail.com  Fri May 21 12:29:48 2021
From: thresholdpeople at protonmail.com (thresholdpeople)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 10:29:48 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list
In-Reply-To: <1A00F43A-ACA5-4F1E-AD45-6481D67BEE7D@stuyts.nl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
 <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
 <OOWEmsMWzU6_XZBkKGUUUgRMMcYeA9705quwYSbk3iLkVslbMtDNlvZOBRoyDZsluR7Kn14a5Qqwh00Not8yIR0ZG514-T3Weh-aYp-HIIs=@protonmail.com>
 <1A00F43A-ACA5-4F1E-AD45-6481D67BEE7D@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <k2JuJxdBU8K2QuVSUcr5rp1iDhDOROUdwxGHT_2rl1kszPlzJt4_OKnHRime7rcyvIcEofxbd8BlIm2GCO9UUX9LDQ3NExY21sedy6qeRAo=@protonmail.com>

Whoops, seeing things out of order ---

that's just it though, the From: "sender name via ..." part only actually shows up if pressing reply or reply all (or when their message is quoted in someone else's email). It doesn't actually show when reading emails, or even when clicking on sender details.

[Screen Shot 2021-05-21 at 06.29.05.png]

this is a random example from a recent through -- no idea who the sender is-

??????? Original Message ???????
On Friday, May 21st, 2021 at 6:10 AM, Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:

> As I tried to explain (badly perhaps), this rewriting of the From: header is sometimes necessary. DMARC is a policy for a domain which controls who is allowed to send mail for that domain.
>
> Therefor certain domains have a DMARC policy that will not allow a message from e.g. Cheater (using gmail) to be sent from the synth-diy.org domain. This would start bouncing and/or get our server blacklisted. In that case, From: will be rewritten to "cheater cheater via synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>" and a Reply-To: with his real address will be added. (Which is perfectly legal in the DMARC system.) Because of the Reply-To: header, a simple Reply in your e-mail program will do the right thing and send the mail only to cheater. A Reply All will also pickup the list (and other) address from the From: and CC: headers. Roman?s domain does not use DMARC, so no rewriting is done.
>
> DMARC is being used more and more, and that is why you see this rewriting also happening more often. Unfortunately this is the best workaround we have for now.
>
> Use a DMARC checker if you want to see if your domain uses DMARC or not. (e.g. https://dmarcly.com/tools/dmarc-checker)
>
> Ben
>
>> On 21 May 2021, at 11:47, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> When i do reply all, that works as expected, and in the quoted chain down below it does as well. But when new emails come in, many people's names are aliased as synth-diy at synth-diy.org.
>>
>> Roman, your's actually works, but for instance cheater's doesn't. Most people's doesn't. And I dunno about email clients. I just use the protonmail web interface, maybe it'd be different on a different client or email host..?
>>
>> Boris
>>
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>
>> On Friday, May 21st, 2021 at 5:39 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> I have absolutely no problems like that. Sometimes it adds "via
>>>
>>> synthdiy" at the end, but sender's name is always visible - see
>>>
>>> attachment. No problem with replying to all, to the list, seeing who
>>>
>>> sent it, sorting by thread, anything...
>>>
>>> Maybe because I'm using lame Thunderbird and not those fancy Microsoft
>>>
>>> or Apple products.
>>>
>>> Roman
>>>
>>> W dniu 2021-05-21 o 01:21, thresholdpeople via Synth-diy pisze:
>>>
>>>> The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
>>>>
>>>> -boris
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 20th, 2021 at 2:50 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David's problem has been apparently fixed (see parallel thread).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts ben at stuyts.nl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon via Synth-diy synth-diy at synth-diy.org wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>>
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>>
>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>
>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 21 12:45:33 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 12:45:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
Message-ID: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>

Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
different batch with different traceability code so I can understand why 
they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 7 to 
180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular tubes. 
Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...

It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. At 
the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. Next 
they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over the place 
between April 2021 and August 2022.
But I finally got them, yay!
Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and summer 
2022.

Roman


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Fri May 21 12:59:27 2021
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 11:59:27 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <F06992380E2544719BB2AD8C8D764E0B@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...

(>.<)  I feel your pain!

The worst I ever got was 1000 green 3mm LEDs (ordered to re-stock a teaching 
lab).  They arrived in 5 boxes.  Each box contained several big plastic 
bags, and inside those were the LEDs.  Every LED in it's own little heat 
sealed plastic bag.  Many of which were actually on the wrong side of the 
heat sealing line and had subsequently fell out.  It took the technician the 
best part of an afternoon with a Stanley knife slitting all the bags open 
and tipping the LEDs out.  And then there was a mountain of plastic to 
dispose of!

-Richie,



-----Original Message----- 
From: Roman Sowa
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:45 AM
To: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...

Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from
different batch with different traceability code so I can understand why
they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 7 to
180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular tubes.
Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...

It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. At
the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. Next
they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over the place
between April 2021 and August 2022.
But I finally got them, yay!
Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and summer
2022.

Roman
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



From loscha at gmail.com  Fri May 21 13:45:59 2021
From: loscha at gmail.com (Loscha)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 21:45:59 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <F06992380E2544719BB2AD8C8D764E0B@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
 <F06992380E2544719BB2AD8C8D764E0B@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <CAA25cveO9PFy7ApVqkX1Ee4o_Y56Q-rTwZHwCtnzwn6FYm4H-g@mail.gmail.com>

I got 100 transistors on eBay many years ago.
Same thing -- individually sealed in non anti-static bags.
There were, however, exactly 100 transistors.
I was expecting them to be on a bandolier, as they were purchased as a lot
of 100 at a time on eBay.

On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 21:07, Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk>
wrote:

> > Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>
> (>.<)  I feel your pain!
>
> The worst I ever got was 1000 green 3mm LEDs (ordered to re-stock a
> teaching
> lab).  They arrived in 5 boxes.  Each box contained several big plastic
> bags, and inside those were the LEDs.  Every LED in it's own little heat
> sealed plastic bag.  Many of which were actually on the wrong side of the
> heat sealing line and had subsequently fell out.  It took the technician
> the
> best part of an afternoon with a Stanley knife slitting all the bags open
> and tipping the LEDs out.  And then there was a mountain of plastic to
> dispose of!
>
> -Richie,
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roman Sowa
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:45 AM
> To: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
>
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from
> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand why
> they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 7 to
> 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular tubes.
> Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. At
> the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. Next
> they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over the place
> between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and summer
> 2022.
>
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Fri May 21 14:19:35 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 13:19:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <MN2PR18MB26871362ECEA848D96034EFFD22B9@MN2PR18MB2687.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <20210519161355.C310.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <20210521121935.GA32131@gjcp.net>

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 04:20:57PM +0200, chris wrote:
> Aah, I see. 
> 
> Thinking at that level also explains why tubes are better. Most probably
> electrons are afraid in the dark. And now adding their claustrophobic
> nature to that...

It's also why valve amps sound "warmer" than transistor amps and both sound far warmer than anything with digital audio.

The valves have a heated cathode at a couple of hundred degrees C, so the electrons are very warm indeed when they fly off and their landing heats up the anode - sometimes you can even see the anodes of output valves glowing red when the amp is at full berries.

Transistor amps don't run at as high a temperature so the electrons are colder, giving it a colder sound.  If you could safely run transistor amps at 200?C they'd be just as warm as valve amps - something I have achieved briefly with experimental MOSFET designs.

Digital audio sounds colder because not only do the parts run cooler but they actually use large fans to cool the semiconductors down further!  This can only make the electrons too cold to sound good, and the difference becomes quite audible.

-- 
Gordonjcp




From mark at verboselectronics.com  Fri May 21 14:51:26 2021
From: mark at verboselectronics.com (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 14:51:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <38476B0F-D051-4811-90FC-8DE8B946A153@simple-answer.com>

The other day I received a box from Mouser that had 3 button caps in it. When I ordered them months ago they didn?t have as many as I wanted, so I ordered all that they had in stock. I guess they were a few short, so instead of throwing them into one of the boxes I got since (basically every week) they shipped a whole box filled with bubble wrap and a small bag with 3 caps from Texas to Germany.

Great.


Mark

PS. In the last 2 weeks every part has started to show short supply with delivery dates well into 2022. I can only assume if I want 10,000 TL082CDR and they have 34 in stock and 14,000 on order coming in July 2022 that I will not be the one to get them from that shipment. Things are about to get interesting. I?m now exploring the military and Industrial temperature ranges and asking why a low offset TL082 is more expensive than a TL052 but I digress?.





> On May 21, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from different batch with different traceability code so I can understand why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
> 
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and summer 2022.
> 
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From markverbos at gmail.com  Fri May 21 14:52:43 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 14:52:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <02D0C31A-D59B-4F2E-8EEF-C43BBD1D1809@gmail.com>

The other day I received a box from Mouser that had 3 button caps in it. When I ordered them months ago they didn?t have as many as I wanted, so I ordered all that they had in stock. I guess they were a few short, so instead of throwing them into one of the boxes I got since (basically every week) they shipped a whole box filled with bubble wrap and a small bag with 3 caps from Texas to Germany.

Great.


Mark

PS. In the last 2 weeks every part has started to show short supply with delivery dates well into 2022. I can only assume if I want 10,000 TL082CDR and they have 34 in stock and 14,000 on order coming in July 2022 that I will not be the one to get them from that shipment. Things are about to get interesting. I?m now exploring the military and Industrial temperature ranges and asking why a low offset TL082 is more expensive than a TL052 but I digress?.


> On May 21, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from different batch with different traceability code so I can understand why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
> 
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and summer 2022.
> 
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Fri May 21 15:19:31 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 06:19:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <541ca5ab-338d-4244-8d73-09c38495036d@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

No one is commenting on the actual shortage? I don't see any micros I'm 
interested in with availability this year.

On 5/21/2021 3:45 AM, Roman Sowa wrote:
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand 
> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 
> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular 
> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. 
> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. 
> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over 
> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and 
> summer 2022.
>
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> .



From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri May 21 16:05:48 2021
From: synth1 at airmail.net (synth1 at airmail.net)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 09:05:48 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <541ca5ab-338d-4244-8d73-09c38495036d@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
 <541ca5ab-338d-4244-8d73-09c38495036d@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <022901d74e4a$67acc000$37064000$@airmail.net>

Be glad to (and my last job was at Microchip in the PIC24 group).

1) the shortage is real. And if the rains do not come soon to Taiwan (in
their worse drought in years) it's going to get REALLY BAD.

2) the shortage is due to Covid. Orders for all of 2020 were off in the
first 3 quarters. This means the 5 major silicon wafer suppliers, who build
to forecast,
cut back production. Fabless companies like Microchip (well, MOSTLY fabless)
buy wafers on a 4 month forecast.

3) then 3 things happened all in a short time period.
a) there were 4 major fabs that had fires
b) people got bored...REALLY bored. And Zoom/Teams required a GIANT spike in
laptop demand. Bored people buy stuff.
c) the car companies started seeing demand in Q4 because bored people, even
though DRIVING WAS MINIMAL, upgraded their cars. BECAUSE BORED.

4) so starting October 2021, the wafer forecasts TRIPLED. Well, you can't
make a baby in 1 month by making 9 women pregnant.

5) then it turned out that where the ICs are packaged (ie wafers going into
the IC packages) is mainly Thailand and Malaysia, which were ravaged
by Covid and sorta covering it up and they had problems getting people into
the factories to operate the die-bonding machines.

6) Lastly, here comes THE PANIC. And not talking you sweating over a Mouser
order. I'm talking panic by people needing 100million parts A DAY.
And they started doing this:

a) triple-ordering, because cancelling a back-order is usually free. So,
let's say you need 10,000 parts. You place orders with 3 different
suppliers, all for say 20,000
and then as parts arrive, you simply cancel what you don't need.
b) buying supply out to next year. The big runners (like Apple) only buy out
1 quarter. But in THIS panic, you get what is called 'blankets', which are
long-term POs
(like 1-2 years) where the price is 'locked in' if the buyer takes the order
and CANNOT CANCEL. And I heard from very reliable sources this is what
companies like
Cisco, Peloton, and Tesla started doing WHICH THEY **NEVER** DO. I heard AWS
(Amazon's Cloud division) that designs their own HW bought 90% of all the
Samsung
Flash memory allocation for 2021. 
c) and this is my favorite: shipping container capacity. Companies with DEEP
pockets then went out and bought literally every shipping container AND THE
SPOT ON THE BOAT for like 18 MONTHS.
So, companies that could manufacture and get parts to the dock had NO WHERE
TO GO. Except on a plane. Which is not factored in the selling contract
price.

Again: for a lots of semis, especially ANY microcontrollers from ANYONE, if
it does not rain a shit-ton in June in Taiwan, kiss it goodbye for a FULL
YEAR.

Paul S.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of MTG
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:20 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...

No one is commenting on the actual shortage? I don't see any micros I'm
interested in with availability this year.

On 5/21/2021 3:45 AM, Roman Sowa wrote:
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand 
> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between
> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular 
> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. 
> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. 
> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over 
> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and 
> summer 2022.
>
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org .

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From didierleplae at yahoo.com  Fri May 21 18:13:42 2021
From: didierleplae at yahoo.com (Didier Leplae)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 11:13:42 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <022901d74e4a$67acc000$37064000$@airmail.net>
References: <022901d74e4a$67acc000$37064000$@airmail.net>
Message-ID: <D3DDE1C7-4E04-4B24-A0AC-17CF7B8C6F1F@yahoo.com>

I curious to know, how does the rain (or lack thereof) impact chip production?

> On May 21, 2021, at 9:10 AM, synth1 at airmail.net wrote:
> 
> ?Be glad to (and my last job was at Microchip in the PIC24 group).
> 
> 1) the shortage is real. And if the rains do not come soon to Taiwan (in
> their worse drought in years) it's going to get REALLY BAD.
> 
> 2) the shortage is due to Covid. Orders for all of 2020 were off in the
> first 3 quarters. This means the 5 major silicon wafer suppliers, who build
> to forecast,
> cut back production. Fabless companies like Microchip (well, MOSTLY fabless)
> buy wafers on a 4 month forecast.
> 
> 3) then 3 things happened all in a short time period.
> a) there were 4 major fabs that had fires
> b) people got bored...REALLY bored. And Zoom/Teams required a GIANT spike in
> laptop demand. Bored people buy stuff.
> c) the car companies started seeing demand in Q4 because bored people, even
> though DRIVING WAS MINIMAL, upgraded their cars. BECAUSE BORED.
> 
> 4) so starting October 2021, the wafer forecasts TRIPLED. Well, you can't
> make a baby in 1 month by making 9 women pregnant.
> 
> 5) then it turned out that where the ICs are packaged (ie wafers going into
> the IC packages) is mainly Thailand and Malaysia, which were ravaged
> by Covid and sorta covering it up and they had problems getting people into
> the factories to operate the die-bonding machines.
> 
> 6) Lastly, here comes THE PANIC. And not talking you sweating over a Mouser
> order. I'm talking panic by people needing 100million parts A DAY.
> And they started doing this:
> 
> a) triple-ordering, because cancelling a back-order is usually free. So,
> let's say you need 10,000 parts. You place orders with 3 different
> suppliers, all for say 20,000
> and then as parts arrive, you simply cancel what you don't need.
> b) buying supply out to next year. The big runners (like Apple) only buy out
> 1 quarter. But in THIS panic, you get what is called 'blankets', which are
> long-term POs
> (like 1-2 years) where the price is 'locked in' if the buyer takes the order
> and CANNOT CANCEL. And I heard from very reliable sources this is what
> companies like
> Cisco, Peloton, and Tesla started doing WHICH THEY **NEVER** DO. I heard AWS
> (Amazon's Cloud division) that designs their own HW bought 90% of all the
> Samsung
> Flash memory allocation for 2021. 
> c) and this is my favorite: shipping container capacity. Companies with DEEP
> pockets then went out and bought literally every shipping container AND THE
> SPOT ON THE BOAT for like 18 MONTHS.
> So, companies that could manufacture and get parts to the dock had NO WHERE
> TO GO. Except on a plane. Which is not factored in the selling contract
> price.
> 
> Again: for a lots of semis, especially ANY microcontrollers from ANYONE, if
> it does not rain a shit-ton in June in Taiwan, kiss it goodbye for a FULL
> YEAR.
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of MTG
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
> 
> No one is commenting on the actual shortage? I don't see any micros I'm
> interested in with availability this year.
> 
>> On 5/21/2021 3:45 AM, Roman Sowa wrote:
>> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
>> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
>> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand 
>> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between
>> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular 
>> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
>> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>> 
>> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. 
>> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. 
>> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over 
>> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
>> But I finally got them, yay!
>> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and 
>> summer 2022.
>> 
>> Roman
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org .
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From synth1 at airmail.net  Fri May 21 18:27:53 2021
From: synth1 at airmail.net (synth1 at airmail.net)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 11:27:53 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <D3DDE1C7-4E04-4B24-A0AC-17CF7B8C6F1F@yahoo.com>
References: <022901d74e4a$67acc000$37064000$@airmail.net>
 <D3DDE1C7-4E04-4B24-A0AC-17CF7B8C6F1F@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <023c01d74e5e$414f3000$c3ed9000$@airmail.net>

The wafer fab process uses millions of gallons of water a week. The main water storage for the Taiwan fabs is below 5% left

Paul S.


-----Original Message-----
From: Didier Leplae <didierleplae at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:14 AM
To: synth1 at airmail.net
Cc: MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...

I curious to know, how does the rain (or lack thereof) impact chip production?

> On May 21, 2021, at 9:10 AM, synth1 at airmail.net wrote:
> 
> ?Be glad to (and my last job was at Microchip in the PIC24 group).
> 
> 1) the shortage is real. And if the rains do not come soon to Taiwan 
> (in their worse drought in years) it's going to get REALLY BAD.
> 
> 2) the shortage is due to Covid. Orders for all of 2020 were off in 
> the first 3 quarters. This means the 5 major silicon wafer suppliers, 
> who build to forecast, cut back production. Fabless companies like 
> Microchip (well, MOSTLY fabless) buy wafers on a 4 month forecast.
> 
> 3) then 3 things happened all in a short time period.
> a) there were 4 major fabs that had fires
> b) people got bored...REALLY bored. And Zoom/Teams required a GIANT 
> spike in laptop demand. Bored people buy stuff.
> c) the car companies started seeing demand in Q4 because bored people, 
> even though DRIVING WAS MINIMAL, upgraded their cars. BECAUSE BORED.
> 
> 4) so starting October 2021, the wafer forecasts TRIPLED. Well, you 
> can't make a baby in 1 month by making 9 women pregnant.
> 
> 5) then it turned out that where the ICs are packaged (ie wafers going 
> into the IC packages) is mainly Thailand and Malaysia, which were 
> ravaged by Covid and sorta covering it up and they had problems 
> getting people into the factories to operate the die-bonding machines.
> 
> 6) Lastly, here comes THE PANIC. And not talking you sweating over a 
> Mouser order. I'm talking panic by people needing 100million parts A DAY.
> And they started doing this:
> 
> a) triple-ordering, because cancelling a back-order is usually free. 
> So, let's say you need 10,000 parts. You place orders with 3 different 
> suppliers, all for say 20,000 and then as parts arrive, you simply 
> cancel what you don't need.
> b) buying supply out to next year. The big runners (like Apple) only 
> buy out
> 1 quarter. But in THIS panic, you get what is called 'blankets', which 
> are long-term POs (like 1-2 years) where the price is 'locked in' if 
> the buyer takes the order and CANNOT CANCEL. And I heard from very 
> reliable sources this is what companies like Cisco, Peloton, and Tesla 
> started doing WHICH THEY **NEVER** DO. I heard AWS (Amazon's Cloud 
> division) that designs their own HW bought 90% of all the Samsung 
> Flash memory allocation for 2021.
> c) and this is my favorite: shipping container capacity. Companies 
> with DEEP pockets then went out and bought literally every shipping 
> container AND THE SPOT ON THE BOAT for like 18 MONTHS.
> So, companies that could manufacture and get parts to the dock had NO 
> WHERE TO GO. Except on a plane. Which is not factored in the selling 
> contract price.
> 
> Again: for a lots of semis, especially ANY microcontrollers from 
> ANYONE, if it does not rain a shit-ton in June in Taiwan, kiss it 
> goodbye for a FULL YEAR.
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of MTG
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:20 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
> 
> No one is commenting on the actual shortage? I don't see any micros 
> I'm interested in with availability this year.
> 
>> On 5/21/2021 3:45 AM, Roman Sowa wrote:
>> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
>> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
>> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand 
>> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between
>> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular 
>> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
>> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>> 
>> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. 
>> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. 
>> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over 
>> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
>> But I finally got them, yay!
>> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and 
>> summer 2022.
>> 
>> Roman
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org .
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org





From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Fri May 21 18:39:49 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 09:39:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Reply to list
In-Reply-To: <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CACodTR9YvLdk96VK=84BoOvDJYmkqVP7TgLJgiJh9YsG33mMiw@mail.gmail.com>
 <98C4A93FD98248439FE507F34BA2AE5A@david78c70950b>
 <F80BD19C-10EA-48D9-A2C6-AE3C6D3BD347@stuyts.nl>
 <26BBD800-C181-4942-BE1C-7C729668978E@stuyts.nl>
 <CAGn5V--YTcdpQ-X9PuMJZ0okgNG64mp7NRMw4XykGw3URiSrEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <aQ0YRYmO-gaXQNPYW7d3gwaEjdUt9meePGkbArJsQE4LOWC8L-9vXsffCXIMQnuD1BHRFbtoA-bfqcK2a8ZTeEbi71WVjICmHAaYcZmMmqc=@protonmail.com>
 <eaf426ba-a716-2dc2-f139-0a013fea5a2e@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <D13C68B0-AA5F-463A-A923-241CC5C5EE09@audiobanshee.com>

For the record, I am using the "fancy" Apple Mail.app and everything is fine.

My email host is also an Apple Xserve running Mac OS X.

It's a little strange seeing the Synth-DIY rewrites, but I understand that's necessary. I just click on the buttons until the individuals and/or list address shows up as desired. In my experience, Google Mail is the worst offender for doing things against internet standards, but it's been a long time since I noticed.

Brian


On May 21, 2021, at 02:39, Roman Sowa wrote:
> I have absolutely no problems like that. Sometimes it adds "via synthdiy" at the end, but sender's name is always visible - see attachment. No problem with replying to all, to the list, seeing who sent it, sorting by thread, anything...
> Maybe because I'm using lame Thunderbird and not those fancy Microsoft or Apple products.
> 
> Roman
> 
> W dniu 2021-05-21 o 01:21, thresholdpeople pisze:
>> The emails arriving with most senders labeled as synth-diy at synth-diy.org persists though, and it is only when clicking reply all, or eventually in quoted headers can you see the recipient - for instance when checking more info for sender details, it's still addressed as synth-diy as the email. There are a few folks whose names show up, but for most it's somewhat anonymized... even more problematic as there's a chunk of folks who don't have a signature or drop their names at the bottom (i'm guilty of this too!).. hard to know who is saying what sometimes.
>> -boris
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 5:48 PM Ben Stuyts wrote:
>>> Correcting myself: I should have written DMARC, not DKIM below. For those wanting to know more about the settings: https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> On 20 May 2021, at 16:49, Ben Stuyts wrote:
>>>> David,
>>>> 
>>>> On 19 May 2021, at 22:10, David G Dixon wrote:
>>>>> Finally, why was the way email addresses are handled changed in this forum? I used to be able to just click "Reply All" and it would go to the whole list. Not anymore. Now I have to find the list name in my address book and add it manually. Please change it back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think it is related to the following: Unfortunately a change was necessary with regards to DKIM signed messages. More and more ISP?s would block or otherwise fail to deliver messages if those came from the list. So now, the list rewrites those as FROM: synth-diy at synth-diy.org and adds a REPLY-TO: original.sender at some.where.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On my Mac, I can just click the Reply All button and it goes to the sender and the list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was discussed here: http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/synth-diy/2021-April/175907.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ben
>> 



From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri May 21 19:42:20 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 19:42:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <3707d1b0-3078-3348-194d-4c7611e19790@gmx.de>


I recently ported a project at work, from one MCU to one luckily, for
our purposes, pin compatible, but internally not exactly the same (same
vendor of course),
as the ones we originally wanted to use were not available until end of
year or so.
I looked through some wouldbe compatibles and actually found one where
it had a few k stock, so that was it. (not high volume production, so
that would last 1..2 years)

Other parts had to be changed, too.


Roman Sowa:
> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from
> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand
> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between
> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular
> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>
> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date.
> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all.
> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over
> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> But I finally got them, yay!
> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and
> summer 2022.
>
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 21 19:45:10 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 19:45:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>

I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
perhaps?

I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.

Cheers

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io>


In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
superheterodyne took over the radio market.

Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw

Mark
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 21 19:58:27 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 19:58:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c63290f0-dca0-f6ed-f019-21193d2e7621@go2.pl>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c266ce1e-123a-1834-5dc8-91f2cc747be4@mikebeauchamp.com>
 <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105201357540.732@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <c63290f0-dca0-f6ed-f019-21193d2e7621@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-87kC11KRVw+x+BsRCWWVXQXQ6DDwB4ReWdBPv8-g+gZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 10:20 PM Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>
> Think about people being born today, what will they do in their 20's?
> Will there be any synth diy movement at all? Hard to say, but if there
> will be, those people will probably not even know what a DIP is, and
> SOIC will be considered as "huge and bulky".
>
> Roman

Tubes, probably.


From dschnidsky at hotmail.com  Fri May 21 21:11:14 2021
From: dschnidsky at hotmail.com (Darren Shorsky)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 19:11:14 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>,
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.
Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.
I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on the list.

Thanx, d.
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex

I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
perhaps?

I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.

Cheers

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io>


In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
superheterodyne took over the radio market.

Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw

Mark
_._,_._,_
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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Fri May 21 21:38:55 2021
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 20:38:55 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>,
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>

I did try building this.

https://www.lookmumnocomputer.com/projects#/valve-distorting-vca

.but the heater ate my -12V rail.

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Darren
Shorsky via Synth-diy
Sent: 21 May 2021 20:11
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>; cheater cheater
<cheater00social at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
Superflex

 

Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.

Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.

I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on the
list.

 

Thanx, d.

  _____  

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
<mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> > on behalf of cheater cheater via
Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> >
Sent: May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> >
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
Superflex 

 

I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
perhaps?

I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.

Cheers

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com <mailto:mark.erdle at gmail.com> >
Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io <mailto:main at funwithtubes.groups.io> >


In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
superheterodyne took over the radio market.

Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw

Mark
_._,_._,_
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From igg.debus at gmail.com  Fri May 21 21:56:53 2021
From: igg.debus at gmail.com (Ingo Debus)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 21:56:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] New Pulse Module, other uses for the AS3341
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVsjp3brFnKxzQ-p4FMNQTpOLx6=eTMAp2=wfCuV6pAAgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+wjhVsjp3brFnKxzQ-p4FMNQTpOLx6=eTMAp2=wfCuV6pAAgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <655CFFF7-09AE-4A7D-88DE-0E844659A4D0@gmail.com>


> Am 20.05.2021 um 21:08 schrieb Ben Bradley via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> 
> The 555 is (or at least I
> happened to have had it wired this way, I forget) non-retriggerable,
> and so it didn't regrigger untile the next pulse after it was done.
> When the pitch went above this, the output would be an octave lower,
> or as the input pitch went up higher, an octave-and-a-fifth or two
> octaves lower than the input pitch

Hah, this reminds me of the very first sound-making circuit I ever built. An oscillator built around a SN7400 followed by a monostable built with a SN74121. It behaved exactly as you describe. Still remember the sounds when the pulse-width pot was turned?

Ingo


From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Fri May 21 22:20:32 2021
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 21:20:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <02D0C31A-D59B-4F2E-8EEF-C43BBD1D1809@gmail.com>
References: <a7a8a788-df85-49b9-c5ef-dbb208312088@go2.pl>
 <02D0C31A-D59B-4F2E-8EEF-C43BBD1D1809@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24f4a30b-0771-27ca-7099-a314477666a5@bugbrand.co.uk>

Yup - there I was thinking it was just the uPs etc. so not too much of a 
worry for me.. so I thought.
I was also somewhat reckoning that the parts I tend to use wouldn't be 
of much interest to the main electronics players (but then I guess if 
the chips weren't widely required they wouldn't have been kept in 
production)
Definitely now feeling it on multiple fronts - chips especially, but 
also many other bits & pieces (presumably more from COVID backups) - 
each order seems to have several frantic scrabbling-arounds to find 
replacements.

Depressingly detailed overview from Paul S - thanks [I guess :( ]

On 21/05/2021 13:52, mark verbos via Synth-diy wrote:
> ..
>
> PS. In the last 2 weeks every part has started to show short supply 
> with delivery dates well into 2022. I can only assume if I want 10,000 
> TL082CDR and they have 34 in stock and 14,000 on order coming in July 
> 2022 that I will not be the one to get them from that shipment. Things 
> are about to get interesting. I?m now exploring the military and 
> Industrial temperature ranges and asking why a low offset TL082 is 
> more expensive than a TL052 but I digress?.
>
>
>> On May 21, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl 
>> <mailto:modular at go2.pl>> wrote:
>>
>> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
>> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from 
>> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand 
>> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between 
>> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular 
>> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
>> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
>>
>> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date. 
>> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all. 
>> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over 
>> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
>> But I finally got them, yay!
>> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and 
>> summer 2022.
>>
>> Roman
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk

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From dschnidsky at hotmail.com  Fri May 21 22:42:52 2021
From: dschnidsky at hotmail.com (Darren Shorsky)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 20:42:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>,
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>,
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

ouch!!  sorry to hear that about your -12v. supply.
prolly best to do tubes on a separate supply.

i'm aware that Metasonix has posted quite a bit of info. around the web about soe of his older projects & there's a supply or two in there.

d.
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: May 21, 2021 7:38 PM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex


I did try building this?

https://www.lookmumnocomputer.com/projects#/valve-distorting-vca

?but the heater ate my -12V rail.



From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy
Sent: 21 May 2021 20:11
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>; cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex



Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.

Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.

I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on the list.



Thanx, d.

________________________________

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
Sent: May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex



I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
perhaps?

I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.

Cheers

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com<mailto:mark.erdle at gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io<mailto:main at funwithtubes.groups.io>>


In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
superheterodyne took over the radio market.

Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw

Mark
_._,_._,_
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri May 21 23:09:57 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 23:09:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <d15f2ed4-ee5b-35df-107f-215fa37c8fdd@gmx.de>

Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy:
> Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.
> Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.
> I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on
> the list.

Well, a couple years ago I linked to this beauty (or the predecessor):
http://knifaudio.com/knifonium/

Don't look at the price tag :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDbQYz5hit8



>
> Thanx, d.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of
> cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Sent:* May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
> *To:* synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The
> Erla Superflex
> I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
> the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
> essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
> perhaps?
>
> I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.
>
> Cheers
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
> Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
> To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io>
>
>
> In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
> expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
> for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
> that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
> and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
> successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
> with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
> the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
> superheterodyne took over the radio market.
>
> Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
> https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw
>
> Mark
> _._,_._,_
> ________________________________
> Groups.io Links:
>
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
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From tom at electricdruid.net  Fri May 21 23:10:39 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 22:10:39 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>

If you?re interested in tubes stuff, I recommend DIYstompboxes.com. There?s some people doing some amazing stuff with voltage multiplier circuits to run tube circuits off a 9V stompbox power supply. Of course, the pre-amps from the most famous amps are very popular, but there?s all sorts of stuff, and the techniques would be applicable for a lot of other things. There?s a lot of tubes in guitar-world still, remember.

Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 21 May 2021, at 21:42, Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ouch!!  sorry to hear that about your -12v. supply.
> prolly best to do tubes on a separate supply.
> 
> i'm aware that Metasonix has posted quite a bit of info. around the web about soe of his older projects & there's a supply or two in there.
> 
> d.
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: May 21, 2021 7:38 PM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>  
> I did try building this?
> https://www.lookmumnocomputer.com/projects#/valve-distorting-vca <https://www.lookmumnocomputer.com/projects#/valve-distorting-vca>
> ?but the heater ate my -12V rail.
>  
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy
> Sent: 21 May 2021 20:11
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>; cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>  
> Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.
> Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.
> I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on the list.
>  
> Thanx, d.
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
> Sent: May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
> Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>  
> I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
> the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
> essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
> perhaps?
> 
> I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com <mailto:mark.erdle at gmail.com>>
> Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
> Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
> To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io <mailto:main at funwithtubes.groups.io>>
> 
> 
> In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
> expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
> for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
> that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
> and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
> successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
> with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
> the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
> superheterodyne took over the radio market.
> 
> Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
> https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw <https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw>
> 
> Mark
> _._,_._,_
> ________________________________
> Groups.io Links:
> 
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
> 
> View/Reply Online (#67579) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute
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From jamoore84 at gmail.com  Fri May 21 23:27:47 2021
From: jamoore84 at gmail.com (Jimmy Moore)
Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 15:27:47 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
In-Reply-To: <023c01d74e5e$414f3000$c3ed9000$@airmail.net>
References: <022901d74e4a$67acc000$37064000$@airmail.net>
 <D3DDE1C7-4E04-4B24-A0AC-17CF7B8C6F1F@yahoo.com>
 <023c01d74e5e$414f3000$c3ed9000$@airmail.net>
Message-ID: <CA+9Xv9uw_nuiCka48KiK0DGfen7DyuKJ8kQQVm4KoVzC2sparQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hypothetically speaking, what does this mean for semiconductor ETFs in
the worst case scenario?

This is not a request for financial advice.

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:32 AM <synth1 at airmail.net> wrote:

> The wafer fab process uses millions of gallons of water a week. The main
> water storage for the Taiwan fabs is below 5% left
>
> Paul S.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Didier Leplae <didierleplae at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:14 AM
> To: synth1 at airmail.net
> Cc: MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com>; Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
>
> I curious to know, how does the rain (or lack thereof) impact chip
> production?
>
> > On May 21, 2021, at 9:10 AM, synth1 at airmail.net wrote:
> >
> > ?Be glad to (and my last job was at Microchip in the PIC24 group).
> >
> > 1) the shortage is real. And if the rains do not come soon to Taiwan
> > (in their worse drought in years) it's going to get REALLY BAD.
> >
> > 2) the shortage is due to Covid. Orders for all of 2020 were off in
> > the first 3 quarters. This means the 5 major silicon wafer suppliers,
> > who build to forecast, cut back production. Fabless companies like
> > Microchip (well, MOSTLY fabless) buy wafers on a 4 month forecast.
> >
> > 3) then 3 things happened all in a short time period.
> > a) there were 4 major fabs that had fires
> > b) people got bored...REALLY bored. And Zoom/Teams required a GIANT
> > spike in laptop demand. Bored people buy stuff.
> > c) the car companies started seeing demand in Q4 because bored people,
> > even though DRIVING WAS MINIMAL, upgraded their cars. BECAUSE BORED.
> >
> > 4) so starting October 2021, the wafer forecasts TRIPLED. Well, you
> > can't make a baby in 1 month by making 9 women pregnant.
> >
> > 5) then it turned out that where the ICs are packaged (ie wafers going
> > into the IC packages) is mainly Thailand and Malaysia, which were
> > ravaged by Covid and sorta covering it up and they had problems
> > getting people into the factories to operate the die-bonding machines.
> >
> > 6) Lastly, here comes THE PANIC. And not talking you sweating over a
> > Mouser order. I'm talking panic by people needing 100million parts A DAY.
> > And they started doing this:
> >
> > a) triple-ordering, because cancelling a back-order is usually free.
> > So, let's say you need 10,000 parts. You place orders with 3 different
> > suppliers, all for say 20,000 and then as parts arrive, you simply
> > cancel what you don't need.
> > b) buying supply out to next year. The big runners (like Apple) only
> > buy out
> > 1 quarter. But in THIS panic, you get what is called 'blankets', which
> > are long-term POs (like 1-2 years) where the price is 'locked in' if
> > the buyer takes the order and CANNOT CANCEL. And I heard from very
> > reliable sources this is what companies like Cisco, Peloton, and Tesla
> > started doing WHICH THEY **NEVER** DO. I heard AWS (Amazon's Cloud
> > division) that designs their own HW bought 90% of all the Samsung
> > Flash memory allocation for 2021.
> > c) and this is my favorite: shipping container capacity. Companies
> > with DEEP pockets then went out and bought literally every shipping
> > container AND THE SPOT ON THE BOAT for like 18 MONTHS.
> > So, companies that could manufacture and get parts to the dock had NO
> > WHERE TO GO. Except on a plane. Which is not factored in the selling
> > contract price.
> >
> > Again: for a lots of semis, especially ANY microcontrollers from
> > ANYONE, if it does not rain a shit-ton in June in Taiwan, kiss it
> > goodbye for a FULL YEAR.
> >
> > Paul S.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of MTG
> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 8:20 AM
> > To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] this chip shortage thing is crazy...
> >
> > No one is commenting on the actual shortage? I don't see any micros
> > I'm interested in with availability this year.
> >
> >> On 5/21/2021 3:45 AM, Roman Sowa wrote:
> >> Today I have received one of my orders from Microchip placed in March.
> >> One part number, but I got it in 9 bags! Each contains chips from
> >> different batch with different traceability code so I can understand
> >> why they are separate, but it's still crazy. The bags contain between
> >> 7 to 180 chips. And those are full size 50x20 bags to fit regular
> >> tubes. Imagine seven SSOP20 chips in a big bag.
> >> Looks like they swiped the floor in every warehouse to find them...
> >>
> >> It was also great fun to watch them change scheduled shippment date.
> >> At the time of ordering they were in stock, so yes, I took them all.
> >> Next they've sent me like 10 emails changing delivery date all over
> >> the place between April 2021 and August 2022.
> >> But I finally got them, yay!
> >> Still a couple more orders expected anytime between tomorrow and
> >> summer 2022.
> >>
> >> Roman
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org .
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Sat May 22 12:22:45 2021
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 11:22:45 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>

What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
items like these which still appear to have stock?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446

Thanks,
Al

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
2022:
 
https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
.pdf

I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.

CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
make it for you if you ordered a million units.

A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
in which case why make them different at all?

Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.

I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.

--
Matthew Skala
mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat May 22 14:44:03 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 13:44:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>


In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.

On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.


> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
> items like these which still appear to have stock?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
> 
> Thanks,
> Al
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
> 2022:
> 
> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
> .pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
> in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
> 
> --
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From btremblay at me.com  Sat May 22 15:07:18 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 09:07:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>

I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.

I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected. 
Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the calculus of survival between paychecks. 

Benjamin Tremblay

> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> 
> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
>> 2022:
>> 
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
>> .pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
>> in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Sat May 22 17:40:23 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 17:40:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
Message-ID: <57d5fb87-8a4c-39ae-a502-ffe9c8605b7f@gmx.de>

Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy:
> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there.
SMT variants of ICs are already cheaper than DIP ones

>   I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips.
I solder LQFP chips with my trusty 3mm chisel from my Weller-HOBBY
station for 70 bucks or so from 10 years ago.
I also solder 0.1mm copper wire pieces to individual QFP pins (0.5mm
pitch) with that tip. It only is in the way in very crowded situations,
where I wish I had a 1mm chisel instead of 3mm (I don't really like the
cone ones like we have at work), but that's so rare I have not bothered
buying one.

> I?m low on solder.
What can I say. That's a problem ;) It doesn't have anything to do with
lack of DIP parts, which probably need more solder than SMT
counterparts, going through hole and all.
(ok, when sloppily drag-soldering, maybe not)

> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will.
Have you looked at the prices at e.g. JLCPCB? Large PCBs tend to cost
extra, forgot at what size they consider it large,
but a single digit amount of USD for 5 or even 10 smaller PCBs, double
sided, ... If you are patient, shipping is not expensive.
https://jlcpcb.com
The 2$ they state there is, IIRC, only for the first order.
Do you actually get PERFBOARD that's cheaper than that? I doubt it. You
could, thus, at least try their first offer ;)
They'll probably also throw in a coupon for SMT assembly when signing up
for the first time.
The fact that higher numbers of the same are cheap is nice for Synth DIY
modules - get 5 VCAs or what have you.
With screwed-on controls, you'd maybe not even need PCBs as big as a
typical module (remember, big PCB = expensive)

> I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient.
My "nifty SMT tools" comprise a pair of "Weitus" precise pliers from
aliexpress or so, and a bit of cheap no-clean flux. (I prefer fluid,
with a droplet applicator similar to stuff for eye drops or so, not a
pen that gets dirty, and is usually a bit big)
I also have the ATTEN 858D+ hot air thing with a bunch of different
diameter tips - don't use it often, because buying solder paste, to go
that route, I do find too expensive / w wasteful, as that stuff goes
stale quickly.
I do have an optical  microscope, which I use infrequently, mostly for
checking for tiny shorts and stuff. I managed without one for years
before I saw the AmScope offer. (yes, it is very nice to have it.)

> I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
Watch SMT soldering tutorial videos e.g. by eevblog, and practise -
perhaps with some of the cheapest fake parts from ebay, then they are
good for something ;)
"Do over" doesn't sound right. Removing some excess solder with
wick-drenched flux works in a second.
Possibly, your solder is too large in diameter i.e. feeding too much,
for SMT stuff.

> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench.
I have a very slim work bench that shares the working space with some
1980's...90's power suplies I got at ebay, an oscilloscope, soldering
station and a fume catcher.
I don't think it is a luxurious setup. I have been using SMT as much as
possible for many years.
Because it's cheaper. Boards get cheaper when smaller, also.


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From electrocontinuo at gmail.com  Sat May 22 18:09:59 2021
From: electrocontinuo at gmail.com (Peter Pearson)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 12:09:59 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <57d5fb87-8a4c-39ae-a502-ffe9c8605b7f@gmx.de>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
 <57d5fb87-8a4c-39ae-a502-ffe9c8605b7f@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CA+qbVc8TmtB873G4E+KqZokD97P5nJZA1f1TGdsFE5oGTOSbgw@mail.gmail.com>

I can recommend this solder paste for prototyping:

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/solder-pastes/loctite_gc_10.html

Very happy with it from personal experience.  No clean, no lead, and shelf
stable at room temp.

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 11:44 AM Steve via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy:
>
> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there.
>
> SMT variants of ICs are already cheaper than DIP ones
>
>  I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips.
>
> I solder LQFP chips with my trusty 3mm chisel from my Weller-HOBBY station
> for 70 bucks or so from 10 years ago.
> I also solder 0.1mm copper wire pieces to individual QFP pins (0.5mm
> pitch) with that tip. It only is in the way in very crowded situations,
> where I wish I had a 1mm chisel instead of 3mm (I don't really like the
> cone ones like we have at work), but that's so rare I have not bothered
> buying one.
>
> I?m low on solder.
>
> What can I say. That's a problem ;) It doesn't have anything to do with
> lack of DIP parts, which probably need more solder than SMT counterparts,
> going through hole and all.
> (ok, when sloppily drag-soldering, maybe not)
>
> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will.
>
> Have you looked at the prices at e.g. JLCPCB? Large PCBs tend to cost
> extra, forgot at what size they consider it large,
> but a single digit amount of USD for 5 or even 10 smaller PCBs, double
> sided, ... If you are patient, shipping is not expensive.
> https://jlcpcb.com
> The 2$ they state there is, IIRC, only for the first order.
> Do you actually get PERFBOARD that's cheaper than that? I doubt it. You
> could, thus, at least try their first offer ;)
> They'll probably also throw in a coupon for SMT assembly when signing up
> for the first time.
> The fact that higher numbers of the same are cheap is nice for Synth DIY
> modules - get 5 VCAs or what have you.
> With screwed-on controls, you'd maybe not even need PCBs as big as a
> typical module (remember, big PCB = expensive)
>
> I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient.
>
> My "nifty SMT tools" comprise a pair of "Weitus" precise pliers from
> aliexpress or so, and a bit of cheap no-clean flux. (I prefer fluid, with a
> droplet applicator similar to stuff for eye drops or so, not a pen that
> gets dirty, and is usually a bit big)
> I also have the ATTEN 858D+ hot air thing with a bunch of different
> diameter tips - don't use it often, because buying solder paste, to go that
> route, I do find too expensive / w wasteful, as that stuff goes stale
> quickly.
> I do have an optical  microscope, which I use infrequently, mostly for
> checking for tiny shorts and stuff. I managed without one for years before
> I saw the AmScope offer. (yes, it is very nice to have it.)
>
> I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
>
> Watch SMT soldering tutorial videos e.g. by eevblog, and practise -
> perhaps with some of the cheapest fake parts from ebay, then they are good
> for something ;)
> "Do over" doesn't sound right. Removing some excess solder with
> wick-drenched flux works in a second.
> Possibly, your solder is too large in diameter i.e. feeding too much, for
> SMT stuff.
>
> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench.
>
> I have a very slim work bench that shares the working space with some
> 1980's...90's power suplies I got at ebay, an oscilloscope, soldering
> station and a fume catcher.
> I don't think it is a luxurious setup. I have been using SMT as much as
> possible for many years.
> Because it's cheaper. Boards get cheaper when smaller, also.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 22 18:18:34 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 18:18:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>

Guys just to clarify I'm asking about a semiconductor filter. Which
filter uses bias to set frequency as well as the audio itself on the
same transistors?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 11:13 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
> If you?re interested in tubes stuff, I recommend DIYstompboxes.com. There?s some people doing some amazing stuff with voltage multiplier circuits to run tube circuits off a 9V stompbox power supply. Of course, the pre-amps from the most famous amps are very popular, but there?s all sorts of stuff, and the techniques would be applicable for a lot of other things. There?s a lot of tubes in guitar-world still, remember.
>
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
>
>
> On 21 May 2021, at 21:42, Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> ouch!!  sorry to hear that about your -12v. supply.
> prolly best to do tubes on a separate supply.
>
> i'm aware that Metasonix has posted quite a bit of info. around the web about soe of his older projects & there's a supply or two in there.
>
> d.
> ________________________________
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: May 21, 2021 7:38 PM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>
> I did try building this?
> https://www.lookmumnocomputer.com/projects#/valve-distorting-vca
> ?but the heater ate my -12V rail.
>
>
>
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Darren Shorsky via Synth-diy
> Sent: 21 May 2021 20:11
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>; cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>
>
>
> Interesting question......  I'd love to know more.
> Hopefully the likes of Eric Barbour come by on occasion.
> I think this is the first time I've seen/heard anything about tubes on the list.
>
>
>
> Thanx, d.
> ________________________________
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: May 21, 2021 5:45 PM
> To: synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
>
>
>
> I seem to remember a filter design where the audio and the CV were in
> the same signal, and the CV was very large compared to the audio,
> essentially a bias, that set the cut-off. Was that the Moog filter
> perhaps?
>
> I wonder if this is where the inspiration for such a filter came from.
>
> Cheers
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Mark <mark.erdle at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:14 PM
> Subject: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla Superflex
> To: <main at funwithtubes.groups.io>
>
>
> In the early 1920s vacuum tubes and the circuitry to operate them were
> expensive items, so there was a great incentive to get the most bang
> for the buck out of each tube. As early as 1915, engineers realized
> that it was possible to have a single triode vacuum tube amplify audio
> and radio frequency signals at the same time. One of the more
> successful reflex radio kits was the Erla Superflex of 1924/25, but
> with the price of vacuum tubes dropping after an RCA patent expired,
> the reflex design became obsolete by mid 1925 and the TRF and
> superheterodyne took over the radio market.
>
> Robert Lozier takes a look at an Erla Superflex in this video:
> https://youtu.be/Lva1lwUUUpw
>
> Mark
> _._,_._,_
> ________________________________
> Groups.io Links:
>
> You receive all messages sent to this group.
>
> View/Reply Online (#67579) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute
> This Topic | New Topic
> Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe
> [cheater00social at gmail.com]
>
> _._,_._,_
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sat May 22 18:25:12 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 16:25:12 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Totally agree you have to check every package contains what you ordered.  And if not ask for a refund from eBay or AliExpress which you get automatically.

But at least 99% of the time you'll get the genuine thing.  Most of these ICs come from one of several surplus electronic component markets.  One of them in Shenzhen was in the news this week when the whole tower shook for some reason despite no earthquake.

This is a very big business where wholesalers buy run-ends from contract and OEM manufacturers, from Foxconn downwards, and then send out lists of what they have to hundreds of small two man and a dog companies who advertise on AliExpress/eBay.  That is why you often see the same component and photograph from several suppliers.  Once they have orders they go and buy the components from the wholesaler and ship it to you.  But of course this system allows those making counterfeits to slip them into the system.

But the only fakes I've encountered were ten OPA2134s in DIP-8.  I think they were LM394s or something like that so I just got my refund and used them as such.
Biggest bargain - an end reel of 138 OPA2134s in SOIC-8 at 21p each.  I'd assumed they were something else but at that price it was worth a punt, and they were absolutely genuine.  Presumably the OEM orders by the thousand or more and the contract PCB assembler didn't want to change reel half way even on an expensive part like this.  If you order volume PCBs from China you will see  'wastage' number in the invoice but was surprised the OEM allowed this many to go to waste.
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: 22 May 2021 13:44
To: ShedSynth
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.

On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.


> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 
> and eBay items like these which still appear to have stock?
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
> 
> Thanks,
> Al
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of 
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the 
> DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links 
> to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order 
> date May 12,
> 2022:
> 
> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212
> 340278
> .pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to 
> hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, 
> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  
> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
> surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which 
> is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version 
> from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for 
> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to be 
> worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
> 
> --
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From list at mikebeauchamp.com  Sat May 22 18:27:56 2021
From: list at mikebeauchamp.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 12:27:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CA+qbVc8TmtB873G4E+KqZokD97P5nJZA1f1TGdsFE5oGTOSbgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
 <57d5fb87-8a4c-39ae-a502-ffe9c8605b7f@gmx.de>
 <CA+qbVc8TmtB873G4E+KqZokD97P5nJZA1f1TGdsFE5oGTOSbgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29136b86-e740-f16f-cb60-bfef093aa013@mikebeauchamp.com>



On 5/22/21 12:09 PM, Peter Pearson via Synth-diy wrote:
> I can recommend this solder paste for prototyping:
> 
> https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/solder-pastes/loctite_gc_10.html
> 
> Very happy with it from personal experience.? No clean, no lead, and 
> shelf stable at room temp.
> 
Interesting! Are you stenciling this on, or somehow applying it directly 
to pads?

Mike




From electrocontinuo at gmail.com  Sat May 22 18:52:51 2021
From: electrocontinuo at gmail.com (Peter Pearson)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 12:52:51 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <29136b86-e740-f16f-cb60-bfef093aa013@mikebeauchamp.com>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
 <57d5fb87-8a4c-39ae-a502-ffe9c8605b7f@gmx.de>
 <CA+qbVc8TmtB873G4E+KqZokD97P5nJZA1f1TGdsFE5oGTOSbgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <29136b86-e740-f16f-cb60-bfef093aa013@mikebeauchamp.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qbVc_Om-x+okdst0vnGQUZNEwamejd8XL=QhpbVQK_Cp370w@mail.gmail.com>

I use a stencil and a Controleo oven (https://www.whizoo.com) most of the
time.

You could use a syringe and hot air just as well but I personally find the
oven is easier and gives better results.  There are a ton of tutorials on
youtube etc.

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:30 PM Mike Beauchamp <list at mikebeauchamp.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 5/22/21 12:09 PM, Peter Pearson via Synth-diy wrote:
> > I can recommend this solder paste for prototyping:
> >
> >
> https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/solder-pastes/loctite_gc_10.html
> >
> > Very happy with it from personal experience.  No clean, no lead, and
> > shelf stable at room temp.
> >
> Interesting! Are you stenciling this on, or somehow applying it directly
> to pads?
>
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sat May 22 19:39:59 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 18:39:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
References: <20210519153628.AFAD.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <441F4BEE-D403-43FE-A05A-3E313F61CF0A@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20210522173959.GA10346@gjcp.net>

On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:05:11PM -0600, Ian Fritz via Synth-diy wrote:
> Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!

I was about to reply "who the hell would ever need to do that", and then I saw it was you posting.  Okay, so apart from people who have incredibly good reasons to get down to that level...? :-D

-- 
Gordonjcp



From ben at stuyts.nl  Sat May 22 19:50:40 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 19:50:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
Message-ID: <5E3AFE51-B8B1-4874-9CDC-321982081BD2@stuyts.nl>

Our list member Taku has just posted his monthly for sale message for TEMPCO?s and other thru-hole devices. It also includes LM13700?s now. See:

http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/marketplace/2021-May/000047.html <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/marketplace/2021-May/000047.html>
and
http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/marketplace/2021-May/000048.html <http://synth-diy.org/pipermail/marketplace/2021-May/000048.html>

Ben


> On 19 May 2021, at 14:06, mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
> 
> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May
> 12, 2022:
>   https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278.pdf
> 
> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> 
> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell
> it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> 
> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC,
> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
> do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
> between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version
> of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> better - in which case why make them different at all?
> 
> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> 
> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> general.  As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole
> version from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for
> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this
> product, that means the market in question is now too small to be worth
> serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products
> too.  Memento mori.
> 
> -- 
> Matthew Skala
> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From ijfritz at comcast.net  Sat May 22 20:33:39 2021
From: ijfritz at comcast.net (Ian Fritz)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2021 12:33:39 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210522173959.GA10346@gjcp.net>
References: <20210522173959.GA10346@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <7B33FF46-9FCF-464A-8757-01259AE12FF1@comcast.net>

LOL! The trouble with selecting OTAs is that often one side is good but the other ? not so much. So you need a non-critical circuit in the design to use it.  So I?ll try to find time to test some of the SMD guys. Is self-heating much of a problem?

Ian

> On May 22, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> ?On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 12:05:11PM -0600, Ian Fritz via Synth-diy wrote:
>> Yabbit ? what if you need to test a dozen or so to select for performance, eg low offset and variation?  There should be ZIF sockets for these!
> 
> I was about to reply "who the hell would ever need to do that", and then I saw it was you posting.  Okay, so apart from people who have incredibly good reasons to get down to that level...? :-D
> -- 
> Gordonjcp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From synthimuse at gmail.com  Sun May 23 18:14:48 2021
From: synthimuse at gmail.com (The SynthiMuse)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 17:14:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] On BBC Radio 3,
 'The Listening Service" A BBC-Centric programme about Synthesizers
Message-ID: <CAJ-kJoBKkpV8Vib_i=VhnXoLK6wZj9BVPhWgPG754VwVKE+qdA@mail.gmail.com>

For those able to receive it, this program does what the BBC normally does;
Talk about things that just increase the mystery rather than clarify it.
17 minutes in and no mention of Moog yet. :-)

Still, quite interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09dxbfg

Gerry Murray
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From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May 23 21:11:10 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 20:11:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
 <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210523191110.GA8040@gjcp.net>

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:18:34PM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> Guys just to clarify I'm asking about a semiconductor filter. Which
> filter uses bias to set frequency as well as the audio itself on the
> same transistors?
> 

Strictly speaking anything single-ended using transistors as "variable resistors".  The original Korg MS20 filter had interesting behaviour where if you drove it hard the cutoff would vary with the incoming signal - so a low-frequency really loud sawtooth would make a distinct pewpewpewpew sweep.

This is because the cutoff is controlled by the current through the trannies, and that's a function of the base-emitter voltage, so if you vary the base voltage you vary the cutoff.  But if you alter the emitter voltage, say by playing some audio into it, you vary the base-emitter voltage by moving the emitter around!

-- 
Gordonjcp



From dschnidsky at hotmail.com  Mon May 24 01:16:53 2021
From: dschnidsky at hotmail.com (Darren Shorsky)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 23:16:53 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] On BBC Radio 3,
 'The Listening Service" A BBC-Centric programme about Synthesizers
In-Reply-To: <CAJ-kJoBKkpV8Vib_i=VhnXoLK6wZj9BVPhWgPG754VwVKE+qdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ-kJoBKkpV8Vib_i=VhnXoLK6wZj9BVPhWgPG754VwVKE+qdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR05MB36612207DB542B5F724A402CD1279@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Thanx!!

d.
________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of The SynthiMuse via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: May 23, 2021 4:14 PM
To: synth-diy mailing list <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] On BBC Radio 3, 'The Listening Service" A BBC-Centric programme about Synthesizers

For those able to receive it, this program does what the BBC normally does;
Talk about things that just increase the mystery rather than clarify it.
17 minutes in and no mention of Moog yet. :-)

Still, quite interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09dxbfg

Gerry Murray


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From ph at comcast.net  Mon May 24 06:45:31 2021
From: ph at comcast.net (p. hendricks)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2021 21:45:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <7B33FF46-9FCF-464A-8757-01259AE12FF1@comcast.net>
References: <20210522173959.GA10346@gjcp.net>
 <7B33FF46-9FCF-464A-8757-01259AE12FF1@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <6e66930c-3c6c-dde4-c610-9eff77b5624d@comcast.net>

I really dread though-hole stuff now. SMT/SOIC parts are so much easier 
and faster. Building NLC modules.
SOIC stuff is quick and easier to swap than a socketed chip.
DON'T USE PASTE and hot air gun. that shit spreads under the chips. it's 
easy and fast too often is a mess that will fuck it up.
Hot air is great for de-soldering. Use a proper oven for soldering.



From modular at go2.pl  Mon May 24 10:57:43 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 10:57:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <6e66930c-3c6c-dde4-c610-9eff77b5624d@comcast.net>
References: <20210522173959.GA10346@gjcp.net>
 <7B33FF46-9FCF-464A-8757-01259AE12FF1@comcast.net>
 <6e66930c-3c6c-dde4-c610-9eff77b5624d@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8470211e-0cde-7648-2889-7d372d4835c4@go2.pl>

Hear, hear!
Couldn't agree with you more.
The key to soldering with paste is precision printing, and that's not 
something you can do with a syringe.
Everything except BGA can be soldered manually faster and with nicer 
looking joints.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-24 o?06:45, p. hendricks via Synth-diy pisze:
> I really dread though-hole stuff now. SMT/SOIC parts are so much easier 
> and faster. Building NLC modules.
> SOIC stuff is quick and easier to swap than a socketed chip.
> DON'T USE PASTE and hot air gun. that shit spreads under the chips. it's 
> easy and fast too often is a mess that will fuck it up.
> Hot air is great for de-soldering. Use a proper oven for soldering.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From modular at go2.pl  Mon May 24 11:18:30 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 11:18:30 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
References: <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <DAC77E4B-F7BF-49B6-BB12-6CC74753FE4D@me.com>
Message-ID: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>

Steve has already commented it so nicely, I just want to add a little.

First of all it's good you want to do anything with electronics at all 
and not spend all day wiggling a phone. If it's SMD or DIP is not a 
showstopper IMHO, all doable at home. There are also salvaged parts, you 
can make huge stock of parts by disassembling old disposed equipment. As 
a free bonus your soldering skills will improve.
About your fat chisel tip - don't assume SMD needs thin tips. Most of 
the time I use 2mm wide chisel for SMD, sometimes 5mm wide.

This is a good way of distraction from survival between paychecks, keep 
it up. It's fun with lots of specialized tools and materials, but it's 
even bigger fun with improvised minimal setup.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-22 o?15:07, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy pisze:
> I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.
> 
> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the calculus of survival between paychecks.
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
>> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
>>
>> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
>>
>>
>>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
>>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Al
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>>
>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
>>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
>>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
>>> 2022:
>>>
>>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
>>> .pdf
>>>
>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
>>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>>>
>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
>>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
>>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
>>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
>>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
>>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>>>
>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
>>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
>>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
>>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
>>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
>>> in which case why make them different at all?
>>>
>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
>>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
>>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>>>
>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
>>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
>>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
>>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
>>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matthew Skala
>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 24 11:59:16 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 09:59:16 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] On BBC Radio 3,
 'The Listening Service" A BBC-Centric programme about Synthesizers
In-Reply-To: <CAJ-kJoBKkpV8Vib_i=VhnXoLK6wZj9BVPhWgPG754VwVKE+qdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ-kJoBKkpV8Vib_i=VhnXoLK6wZj9BVPhWgPG754VwVKE+qdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7049e2f3c47b4b91a8f9ff033ecc3ac8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Actually Moog mentioned at 15 minutes, and that?s where it became less interesting.   I hadn?t heard some of those 1930s pieces which were very impressive given the limited technology.  Also surprising was no mention of the Radiophonic Workshop which is of course central to all post-war electronic music but the programme just jumped from 1930s to 1969.

Well worth a listen anyway.

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of The SynthiMuse via Synth-diy
Sent: 23 May 2021 17:15
To: synth-diy mailing list
Subject: [sdiy] On BBC Radio 3, 'The Listening Service" A BBC-Centric programme about Synthesizers

For those able to receive it, this program does what the BBC normally does;
Talk about things that just increase the mystery rather than clarify it.
17 minutes in and no mention of Moog yet. :-)

Still, quite interesting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09dxbfg

Gerry Murray


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From btremblay at me.com  Mon May 24 13:59:34 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 07:59:34 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>

Hey, please steer me in the right direction for a minimalist inexpensive smt workflow I can get started with. I love nonlinear circuits modules but afraid to build them. I had a dream a golden retriever was trying to talk to me, maybe that?s what it was trying to tell me.
Thanks,
Ben

Benjamin Tremblay

> On May 24, 2021, at 5:26 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> ?Steve has already commented it so nicely, I just want to add a little.
> 
> First of all it's good you want to do anything with electronics at all and not spend all day wiggling a phone. If it's SMD or DIP is not a showstopper IMHO, all doable at home. There are also salvaged parts, you can make huge stock of parts by disassembling old disposed equipment. As a free bonus your soldering skills will improve.
> About your fat chisel tip - don't assume SMD needs thin tips. Most of the time I use 2mm wide chisel for SMD, sometimes 5mm wide.
> 
> This is a good way of distraction from survival between paychecks, keep it up. It's fun with lots of specialized tools and materials, but it's even bigger fun with improvised minimal setup.
> 
> Roman
> 
> W dniu 2021-05-22 o 15:07, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy pisze:
>> I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.
>> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
>> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
>> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the calculus of survival between paychecks.
>> Benjamin Tremblay
>>>> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
>>> 
>>> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
>>>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Al
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
>>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>>>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>>> 
>>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
>>>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
>>>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
>>>> 2022:
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
>>>> .pdf
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
>>>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>>>> 
>>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
>>>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
>>>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
>>>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
>>>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
>>>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>>>> 
>>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
>>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
>>>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
>>>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
>>>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
>>>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
>>>> in which case why make them different at all?
>>>> 
>>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
>>>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
>>>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>>>> 
>>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>>>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
>>>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
>>>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
>>>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
>>>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Matthew Skala
>>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From indigoid at oldcorollas.org  Mon May 24 14:56:45 2021
From: indigoid at oldcorollas.org (john slee)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 22:56:45 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't use an oven, hot air, paste or stencils, and all my DIY is for my
own use. I don't do anything with crazy tiny packages or BGA/QFN

For passives/diodes/transistors I put a blob of solder on one pad, heat it,
place the part, hold it until the joint cools, then do a few more parts
(only the same part value to help avoid errors!) the same way, and circle
back and do the remaining pads

For SMD ICs I'll tack a pair of opposite corner pins in place and then do
the drag soldering thing with some no-clean flux

I'm curious about trying low-volume outsourced assembly though (eg. Seeed's
"Fusion" service) just for the experience of trying it. I enjoy the
schematic capture and board layout process in Eagle ? especially since I
added automatic generation of front panel PCBs to my workflow! ? but
frankly I don't enjoy the assembly process that much anymore

John


On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 22:01, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Hey, please steer me in the right direction for a minimalist inexpensive
> smt workflow I can get started with. I love nonlinear circuits modules but
> afraid to build them. I had a dream a golden retriever was trying to talk
> to me, maybe that?s what it was trying to tell me.
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
> Benjamin Tremblay
>
> > On May 24, 2021, at 5:26 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> >
> > ?Steve has already commented it so nicely, I just want to add a little.
> >
> > First of all it's good you want to do anything with electronics at all
> and not spend all day wiggling a phone. If it's SMD or DIP is not a
> showstopper IMHO, all doable at home. There are also salvaged parts, you
> can make huge stock of parts by disassembling old disposed equipment. As a
> free bonus your soldering skills will improve.
> > About your fat chisel tip - don't assume SMD needs thin tips. Most of
> the time I use 2mm wide chisel for SMD, sometimes 5mm wide.
> >
> > This is a good way of distraction from survival between paychecks, keep
> it up. It's fun with lots of specialized tools and materials, but it's even
> bigger fun with improvised minimal setup.
> >
> > Roman
> >
> > W dniu 2021-05-22 o 15:07, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy pisze:
> >> I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole
> larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.
> >> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips.
> $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron
> because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
> >> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never
> will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to
> have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt
> convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and
> I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I
> have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
> >> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves
> above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the
> calculus of survival between paychecks.
> >> Benjamin Tremblay
> >>>> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?
> >>> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> >>>
> >>> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs.
> It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip.
> But that?s definitely not always the case.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700
> and eBay
> >>>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
> >>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
> >>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Al
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
> >>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
> >>>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
> >>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >>>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> >>>>
> >>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is
> the DIP
> >>>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to
> this
> >>>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date
> May 12,
> >>>> 2022:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
> >>>> .pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which
> still
> >>>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> >>>>
> >>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP
> and
> >>>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't
> sell it
> >>>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for
> the
> >>>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I
> don't
> >>>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe
> they'd
> >>>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> >>>>
> >>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> >>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through
> LCSC, which
> >>>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They
> do note
> >>>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units
> between
> >>>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
> >>>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is
> better -
> >>>> in which case why make them different at all?
> >>>>
> >>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the
> Web
> >>>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is
> a
> >>>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in
> SOIC.
> >>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in
> general.
> >>>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version
> from a
> >>>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole
> analog
> >>>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that
> means the
> >>>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and
> that
> >>>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Matthew Skala
> >>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
> >>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From modular at go2.pl  Mon May 24 15:07:40 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 15:07:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
Message-ID: <0cfd28f0-3159-7369-41e5-168ae610049a@go2.pl>

OK, here it goes:
1. sharp tweezers. If they are not sharp, sharpen them with a file
2. soldering iron of any kind, you have that already
3. flux gel in 10cc syringe
4. 10 mils (0.25mm) solder wire
5. if you don't have young good eyes, use some sort of optical aid, like 
double lenses on your glasses, or watchmaker magnifier. Some may 
recommend table lamp with big magnifier glass, but I get dizzy when 
looking through this - check it in the store if you can
6. obviously some sort of desk light if that's not covered in step 5.
7. power supply of any kind, maybe salvaged from old radio or whatever, 
modified by you with insertion of LM317 and potentiometer
8. cheap multimeter from supermarket if you don't want to spend more 
than $5 on multimeter
9. solder wick, they can be found for $0.25
10. a bottle of IPA or any >90% alcohol, a brush and paper towels to 
wipe excess of flux gel from step 3
11. scraps of copperclad to make PCBs. I don't assume you'll want to pay 
$10 shipping for $2 PCB made in China and wait 4 weeks if you can make 
PCBs at home. Maybe not that pretty but new one every day. Yes, I did 
make SOIC footprints directly on copperclad manually.
11a. all stuff for making PCBs - water resistive pen, ferric chloride, 
plastic tray. And here's the fun part - no need to drill anything as 
it's all SMD! At least for starters.
12. if you have an access to laser printer, then install free PCB design 
software and use thermal transfer method for making PCBs instead of 
water resistive pen from step 11a. And yes, SOIC or SOT23 are easily 
doable with either thermal transfer or manual pen writing.
13. Kynar wire for making bridges where traces don't fit.

You can buy most of it if not all at Aliexpress cheap, I wasn't that 
lucky when I started. Good addition would be an oscilloscope, but that 
topic was covered here inside out many times before.

And that's basicaly it, doesn't differ much from regular diy electronic 
minimalistic lab, just few things determined by SMD.

I could tell a story how electronics was like behind iron courtain. But 
that was old times. Even I cannot believe my own memories sometimes.

Roman


W dniu 2021-05-24 o?13:59, Benjamin Tremblay pisze:
> Hey, please steer me in the right direction for a minimalist inexpensive smt workflow I can get started with. I love nonlinear circuits modules but afraid to build them. I had a dream a golden retriever was trying to talk to me, maybe that?s what it was trying to tell me.
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
>> On May 24, 2021, at 5:26 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>
>> ?Steve has already commented it so nicely, I just want to add a little.
>>
>> First of all it's good you want to do anything with electronics at all and not spend all day wiggling a phone. If it's SMD or DIP is not a showstopper IMHO, all doable at home. There are also salvaged parts, you can make huge stock of parts by disassembling old disposed equipment. As a free bonus your soldering skills will improve.
>> About your fat chisel tip - don't assume SMD needs thin tips. Most of the time I use 2mm wide chisel for SMD, sometimes 5mm wide.
>>
>> This is a good way of distraction from survival between paychecks, keep it up. It's fun with lots of specialized tools and materials, but it's even bigger fun with improvised minimal setup.
>>
>> Roman
>>
>> W dniu 2021-05-22 o 15:07, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy pisze:
>>> I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.
>>> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
>>> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
>>> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the calculus of survival between paychecks.
>>> Benjamin Tremblay
>>>>> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
>>>>
>>>> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
>>>>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
>>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>>>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Al
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of
>>>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>>>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
>>>>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
>>>>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
>>>>> 2022:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278
>>>>> .pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
>>>>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>>>>>
>>>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
>>>>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
>>>>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
>>>>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
>>>>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
>>>>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
>>>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
>>>>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
>>>>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
>>>>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
>>>>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
>>>>> in which case why make them different at all?
>>>>>
>>>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
>>>>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
>>>>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>>>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>>>>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
>>>>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
>>>>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
>>>>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
>>>>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Matthew Skala
>>>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>>>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From btremblay at me.com  Mon May 24 15:39:28 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 09:39:28 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A52C1DA7-3E0A-4A62-A777-EBD32C64AD9F@me.com>

Thank you folks! I appreciate it.

> On May 24, 2021, at 8:56 AM, john slee <indigoid at oldcorollas.org> wrote:
> 
> I don't use an oven, hot air, paste or stencils, and all my DIY is for my own use. I don't do anything with crazy tiny packages or BGA/QFN
> 
> For passives/diodes/transistors I put a blob of solder on one pad, heat it, place the part, hold it until the joint cools, then do a few more parts (only the same part value to help avoid errors!) the same way, and circle back and do the remaining pads
> 
> For SMD ICs I'll tack a pair of opposite corner pins in place and then do the drag soldering thing with some no-clean flux
> 
> I'm curious about trying low-volume outsourced assembly though (eg. Seeed's "Fusion" service) just for the experience of trying it. I enjoy the schematic capture and board layout process in Eagle ? especially since I added automatic generation of front panel PCBs to my workflow! ? but frankly I don't enjoy the assembly process that much anymore
> 
> John
> 
> 
> On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 22:01, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> Hey, please steer me in the right direction for a minimalist inexpensive smt workflow I can get started with. I love nonlinear circuits modules but afraid to build them. I had a dream a golden retriever was trying to talk to me, maybe that?s what it was trying to tell me.
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
> > On May 24, 2021, at 5:26 AM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl <mailto:modular at go2.pl>> wrote:
> > 
> > ?Steve has already commented it so nicely, I just want to add a little.
> > 
> > First of all it's good you want to do anything with electronics at all and not spend all day wiggling a phone. If it's SMD or DIP is not a showstopper IMHO, all doable at home. There are also salvaged parts, you can make huge stock of parts by disassembling old disposed equipment. As a free bonus your soldering skills will improve.
> > About your fat chisel tip - don't assume SMD needs thin tips. Most of the time I use 2mm wide chisel for SMD, sometimes 5mm wide.
> > 
> > This is a good way of distraction from survival between paychecks, keep it up. It's fun with lots of specialized tools and materials, but it's even bigger fun with improvised minimal setup.
> > 
> > Roman
> > 
> > W dniu 2021-05-22 o 15:07, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy pisze:
> >> I can accept that things are changing. But, the loss of through-hole larger components is a loss for me. I can adjust, but it is a loss.
> >> I don?t have much money for electronics. My purchases come in drips. $15 or $8 here and there. I?m using a fat chisel tip on my soldering iron because I don?t have budget for a new set of tips. I?m low on solder.
> >> I?m not going to have capital for tools and pcb fabrication. I never will. I use what I can get, and that?s how I will carry on. I do happen to have a cheap soldering microscope, but no nifty tools to make smt convenient. I was able to tack a ram chip onto my Teensy the stupid way and I know every time I do it that way I roll the dice to see how many times I have to do-over until all the pins are properly connected.
> >> Electronics will never be about gear or toys or well-stocked shelves above my tidy workbench. It?s how I distract myself while doing the calculus of survival between paychecks.
> >> Benjamin Tremblay
> >>>> On May 22, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net <mailto:tom at electricdruid.net>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> ?
> >>> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> >>> 
> >>> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 and eBay
> >>>> items like these which still appear to have stock?
> >>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998 <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998>
> >>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446 <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446>
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Al
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> On Behalf Of
> >>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca <mailto:mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca>
> >>>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
> >>>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >>>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> >>>> 
> >>>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the DIP
> >>>> version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links to this
> >>>> discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order date May 12,
> >>>> 2022:
> >>>> 
> >>>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278 <https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212340278>
> >>>> .pdf
> >>>> 
> >>>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which still
> >>>> shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
> >>>> 
> >>>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP and
> >>>> SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio doesn't sell it
> >>>> on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a Web search for the
> >>>> purported part number of V13700D only turns up the data sheet.  I don't
> >>>> believe it really exists in any way accessible to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd
> >>>> make it for you if you ordered a million units.
> >>>> 
> >>>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational
> >>>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, which
> >>>> seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  They do note
> >>>> in their data sheet that there are differences in the buffer units between
> >>>> the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own surface-mount version of a
> >>>> similar part).  Interestingly, they claim that the DIP version is better -
> >>>> in which case why make them different at all?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the Web
> >>>> site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which is a
> >>>> 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
> >>>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
> >>>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version from a
> >>>> major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for through-hole analog
> >>>> electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue this product, that means the
> >>>> market in question is now too small to be worth serving anymore, and that
> >>>> assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
> >>>> 
> >>>> --
> >>>> Matthew Skala
> >>>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca <mailto:mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca>                 People before tribes.
> >>>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ <https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> >>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> >>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> >>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>

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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 24 21:44:38 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 21:44:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <20210523191110.GA8040@gjcp.net>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
 <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210523191110.GA8040@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_dRZFRDUnXTvAhhbA4ZbmvpVGY4Vt8MDRHi_07fLujmw@mail.gmail.com>

ok, so essentially all modern filters derive from the superflex circuit?

On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:15 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:18:34PM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > Guys just to clarify I'm asking about a semiconductor filter. Which
> > filter uses bias to set frequency as well as the audio itself on the
> > same transistors?
> >
>
> Strictly speaking anything single-ended using transistors as "variable resistors".  The original Korg MS20 filter had interesting behaviour where if you drove it hard the cutoff would vary with the incoming signal - so a low-frequency really loud sawtooth would make a distinct pewpewpewpew sweep.
>
> This is because the cutoff is controlled by the current through the trannies, and that's a function of the base-emitter voltage, so if you vary the base voltage you vary the cutoff.  But if you alter the emitter voltage, say by playing some audio into it, you vary the base-emitter voltage by moving the emitter around!
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Mon May 24 22:35:03 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 16:35:03 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_dRZFRDUnXTvAhhbA4ZbmvpVGY4Vt8MDRHi_07fLujmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
 <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210523191110.GA8040@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V-_dRZFRDUnXTvAhhbA4ZbmvpVGY4Vt8MDRHi_07fLujmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVsb+nWwHKBJ5-QgNEac3P6TPeDVwTMZNApTMAM70QFmHg@mail.gmail.com>

No, actually the operations of transistors (specifically BJTs) are
quite different from tubes. Here's a generic description of that
"superflex" tube circuit - the main or only difference between the
audio and the RF going through the tube is the frequency range:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_receiver
The tube grid input is very high impedance (almost) regardless of the
signal level. Unlike a control voltage or control current, neither one
"controls" the other, they're both just different signals going
through the same tube, used as a (mostly) linear amplifier. You could
do the same thing with a transistor but it would be a different
circuit due to bias considerations.

A transistor's input (base-emitter) impedance is inversely
proportional to the DC current into the base. This impedance varies a
lot with voltage, so the signal level into it has to be very low to
keep distortion low. That's the too-short version of how the original
Moog ladder filter works.

At this point it's not really a control voltage, but rather a control
current. The control current is actually injected into the emitter
(and the base current is proportional).
You can find a lot by googling:
ladder filter patent
The first link of course the actual patent, and other links describe
its operation in various amounts of detail.

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> ok, so essentially all modern filters derive from the superflex circuit?
>
> On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:15 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:18:34PM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > > Guys just to clarify I'm asking about a semiconductor filter. Which
> > > filter uses bias to set frequency as well as the audio itself on the
> > > same transistors?
> > >
> >
> > Strictly speaking anything single-ended using transistors as "variable resistors".  The original Korg MS20 filter had interesting behaviour where if you drove it hard the cutoff would vary with the incoming signal - so a low-frequency really loud sawtooth would make a distinct pewpewpewpew sweep.
> >
> > This is because the cutoff is controlled by the current through the trannies, and that's a function of the base-emitter voltage, so if you vary the base voltage you vary the cutoff.  But if you alter the emitter voltage, say by playing some audio into it, you vary the base-emitter voltage by moving the emitter around!
> >
> > --
> > Gordonjcp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Tue May 25 06:22:39 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 06:22:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Fwd: [funwithtubes] Vacuum Tube Multitasking - The Erla
 Superflex
In-Reply-To: <CA+wjhVsb+nWwHKBJ5-QgNEac3P6TPeDVwTMZNApTMAM70QFmHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <uZJq.1621599273690586720.tYWJ@groups.io>
 <CAGn5V-9kbURV_g59mqBx4ngtC+GsS782axvJ-dcQfjb_dSfsAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB366163765E37E42048891117D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <001201d74e78$efd27c30$cf777490$@gmail.com>
 <MWHPR05MB3661045E6FC93992F394F956D1299@MWHPR05MB3661.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
 <868971B3-ADDB-4EAC-9110-A7436314BEA4@electricdruid.net>
 <CAGn5V-_7PN1izU5NYzpbNdENnupeObZNu14ygt+oJVityBmPdw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210523191110.GA8040@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V-_dRZFRDUnXTvAhhbA4ZbmvpVGY4Vt8MDRHi_07fLujmw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+wjhVsb+nWwHKBJ5-QgNEac3P6TPeDVwTMZNApTMAM70QFmHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_iOREZdXtiuHD54RKZyk1o6B9yoG+ttozbK7J00H_V6g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Ben, I really appreciate the explanation!

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 10:38 PM Ben Bradley via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> No, actually the operations of transistors (specifically BJTs) are
> quite different from tubes. Here's a generic description of that
> "superflex" tube circuit - the main or only difference between the
> audio and the RF going through the tube is the frequency range:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_receiver
> The tube grid input is very high impedance (almost) regardless of the
> signal level. Unlike a control voltage or control current, neither one
> "controls" the other, they're both just different signals going
> through the same tube, used as a (mostly) linear amplifier. You could
> do the same thing with a transistor but it would be a different
> circuit due to bias considerations.
>
> A transistor's input (base-emitter) impedance is inversely
> proportional to the DC current into the base. This impedance varies a
> lot with voltage, so the signal level into it has to be very low to
> keep distortion low. That's the too-short version of how the original
> Moog ladder filter works.
>
> At this point it's not really a control voltage, but rather a control
> current. The control current is actually injected into the emitter
> (and the base current is proportional).
> You can find a lot by googling:
> ladder filter patent
> The first link of course the actual patent, and other links describe
> its operation in various amounts of detail.
>
> On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > ok, so essentially all modern filters derive from the superflex circuit?
> >
> > On Sun, May 23, 2021 at 9:15 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 06:18:34PM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > > > Guys just to clarify I'm asking about a semiconductor filter. Which
> > > > filter uses bias to set frequency as well as the audio itself on the
> > > > same transistors?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Strictly speaking anything single-ended using transistors as "variable resistors".  The original Korg MS20 filter had interesting behaviour where if you drove it hard the cutoff would vary with the incoming signal - so a low-frequency really loud sawtooth would make a distinct pewpewpewpew sweep.
> > >
> > > This is because the cutoff is controlled by the current through the trannies, and that's a function of the base-emitter voltage, so if you vary the base voltage you vary the cutoff.  But if you alter the emitter voltage, say by playing some audio into it, you vary the base-emitter voltage by moving the emitter around!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gordonjcp
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbedtom at gmail.com  Tue May 25 08:33:05 2021
From: mbedtom at gmail.com (Tom Farrand)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 02:33:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
Message-ID: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I
received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar
cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a
Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things
like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.

How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is
uniquely identified as "*AF OUT BassStation*" or other identity.  I was
planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work
a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I
have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling
"inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label
blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels
at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You
can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)
A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling
cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of
dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in
readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure
don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat,
humidity, or other environmental issues.

As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for
labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label
one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought
commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a
label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a
cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing
won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!

Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to
devise something new as a solution.

I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble
is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger
finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix
my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)
I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the
fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had
the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for
about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!
What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that
none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just *who was
Robert Moog! * My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!
The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of
the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was
supposed to be working that day!)

Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!

Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
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From chris at chrismusic.de  Tue May 25 10:41:37 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 10:41:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210525102525.7A50.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

After having gone through the scotch tape and gaffa mess, I went for
something like this: search for e.g. ebay item 352374828521

Using a permanent CD pen, this is quite durable. When exposed to direct
sunlight, it may fade somewhat over the years but stays visible.

Quick to install, easy to remove, and dirt cheap.

The only downside is that when removing a cable between others, it may
not come out easily because the label sticks out from the plug. But I
can live with that. Obviously, the long cable tie end should be clipped
after tightening.

And BTW, I stopped using IN and OUT on labels - depending on which end
you're looking at, it's getting ambiguous. E.g. MIDI cables naturally go
from an OUT to an IN, so there's always both terms involved.
I now use designations like "From Juno-6" or "To D-50", which make sense
on both ends.

Chris



On Tue, 25 May 2021 02:33:05 -0400 Tom Farrand via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I
> received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar
> cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a
> Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things
> like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
> 
> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is
> uniquely identified as "*AF OUT BassStation*" or other identity.  I was
> planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work
> a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I
> have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling
> "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label
> blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels
> at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You
> can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)
> A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling
> cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of
> dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in
> readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure
> don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat,
> humidity, or other environmental issues.
> 
> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for
> labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label
> one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought
> commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a
> label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a
> cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing
> won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!
> 
> Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to
> devise something new as a solution.
> 
> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble
> is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger
> finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix
> my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)
> I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the
> fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had
> the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for
> about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!
> What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that
> none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just *who was
> Robert Moog! * My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!
> The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of
> the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was
> supposed to be working that day!)
> 
> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!
> 
> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana



From benalog1977 at gmail.com  Tue May 25 11:07:27 2021
From: benalog1977 at gmail.com (Ben Riggs)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:07:27 +0700
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D203D8AF-EA65-49E9-AE26-1B93F2F1D22B@gmail.com>

Heat shrink label cartridges are available for some types of label printers, the one we use at work is a Brother P-touch. If you have a label printer, check to see it there is a shrink label cartridge available.

Ben.

> On 25 May 2021, at 1:33 pm, Tom Farrand via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
> 
> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is uniquely identified as "AF OUT BassStation" or other identity.  I was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)  A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, humidity, or other environmental issues.
> 
> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!
> 
> Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to devise something new as a solution.
> 
> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)  I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!  What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just who was Robert Moog!  My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!  The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was supposed to be working that day!)
> 
> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!
> 
> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From tom at electricdruid.net  Tue May 25 11:07:49 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 10:07:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51D920D6-1620-4D91-B078-39826570EBC3@electricdruid.net>

The various handheld label makers / tape label printers do a lovely job for cables. At work we used to add the label to a cable and then cover it with clear heatshrink for a really permanent solution.

For one studio?s worth of cables, you might not think it?s worth it (although some are pretty cheap now) but it might compare favourably with 1000 printer sheets and toner!

This type of thing:

https://www.staples.com/dymo-labelmanager-160-handheld-label-maker/product_344064


> On 25 May 2021, at 07:33, Tom Farrand via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
> 
> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is uniquely identified as "AF OUT BassStation" or other identity.  I was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)  A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, humidity, or other environmental issues.
> 
> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!
> 
> Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to devise something new as a solution.
> 
> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)  I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!  What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just who was Robert Moog!  My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!  The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was supposed to be working that day!)
> 
> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!
> 
> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From quincas at gmail.com  Tue May 25 11:16:26 2021
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 04:16:26 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <51D920D6-1620-4D91-B078-39826570EBC3@electricdruid.net>
References: <51D920D6-1620-4D91-B078-39826570EBC3@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <EB39B792-5143-49CE-884B-C8825917D38A@gmail.com>

I just write on the cables with a silver sharpie

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 May 2021, at 4:09, Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
> 
> ?The various handheld label makers / tape label printers do a lovely job for cables. At work we used to add the label to a cable and then cover it with clear heatshrink for a really permanent solution.
> 
> For one studio?s worth of cables, you might not think it?s worth it (although some are pretty cheap now) but it might compare favourably with 1000 printer sheets and toner!
> 
> This type of thing:
> 
> https://www.staples.com/dymo-labelmanager-160-handheld-label-maker/product_344064
> 
> 
>> On 25 May 2021, at 07:33, Tom Farrand via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
>> 
>> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is uniquely identified as "AF OUT BassStation" or other identity.  I was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)  A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, humidity, or other environmental issues.
>> 
>> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!
>> 
>> Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to devise something new as a solution.
>> 
>> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)  I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!  What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just who was Robert Moog!  My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!  The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was supposed to be working that day!)
>> 
>> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!
>> 
>> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From synthdiy at adambaby.com  Tue May 25 11:32:32 2021
From: synthdiy at adambaby.com (Adam Inglis (synthDIY))
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 19:32:32 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <EB39B792-5143-49CE-884B-C8825917D38A@gmail.com>
References: <51D920D6-1620-4D91-B078-39826570EBC3@electricdruid.net>
 <EB39B792-5143-49CE-884B-C8825917D38A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5279B465-F4B8-476A-8BE5-A44F7E95E17A@adambaby.com>



> On 25 May 2021, at 7:16 pm, Quincas Moreira via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> I just write on the cables with a silver sharpie
> 


???
Quincas clearly you have very young eyes if that works for you?

my cable labels are nearly the size of old postcards by now!!! 
I have to staple them at least 15 cm from the ends so that they don?t clutter the patchbay area?  ;-)


A


From markverbos at gmail.com  Tue May 25 14:21:16 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:21:16 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>

Mike, 
You have been lucky, or maybe just haven?t taken as many shots as I have.
Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. I have bought 8 on eBay to get to 2 working ones. It took me a while to accept that the one I had here and 2 others from eBay were all fakes, but then I ordered form a new place and still got more fakes, or at least not working ones. 

I am using a recently discontinued FIFO in a product. I bought them from a Chinese supplier from Alibaba, we?ve had around 30% junk on our reels. 

I have cloned the OB-MX voice board and collected a vast array of rare ICs from Alibaba companies. The card doesn?t work yet, so I am about to start the painful process of putting all of these chips onto my working board to see which ones are bullshit. Then, have no choice but to play Russian Roulette again to get replacements. 

As soon as I get this working, I will redesign it in SMT so I can pick N place it and get the much more available parts. 


Mark





> On May 22, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> Totally agree you have to check every package contains what you ordered.  And if not ask for a refund from eBay or AliExpress which you get automatically.
> 
> But at least 99% of the time you'll get the genuine thing.  Most of these ICs come from one of several surplus electronic component markets.  One of them in Shenzhen was in the news this week when the whole tower shook for some reason despite no earthquake.
> 
> This is a very big business where wholesalers buy run-ends from contract and OEM manufacturers, from Foxconn downwards, and then send out lists of what they have to hundreds of small two man and a dog companies who advertise on AliExpress/eBay.  That is why you often see the same component and photograph from several suppliers.  Once they have orders they go and buy the components from the wholesaler and ship it to you.  But of course this system allows those making counterfeits to slip them into the system.
> 
> But the only fakes I've encountered were ten OPA2134s in DIP-8.  I think they were LM394s or something like that so I just got my refund and used them as such.
> Biggest bargain - an end reel of 138 OPA2134s in SOIC-8 at 21p each.  I'd assumed they were something else but at that price it was worth a punt, and they were absolutely genuine.  Presumably the OEM orders by the thousand or more and the contract PCB assembler didn't want to change reel half way even on an expensive part like this.  If you order volume PCBs from China you will see  'wastage' number in the invoice but was surprised the OEM allowed this many to go to waste.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: 22 May 2021 13:44
> To: ShedSynth
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> 
> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 
>> and eBay items like these which still appear to have stock?
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of 
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is the 
>> DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and links 
>> to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the last order 
>> date May 12,
>> 2022:
>> 
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_2021051212
>> 340278
>> .pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible to 
>> hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through LCSC, 
>> which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.  
>> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
>> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
>> surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
>> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, which 
>> is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version 
>> from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for 
>> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
>> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to be 
>> worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Tue May 25 14:34:11 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 12:34:11 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.  That's probably 25% LCSC/JLCPCB, 50% China/Philipines/etc (Alibaba, AliExpress, eBay and others) and 25% RS.

I am very careful who I order from on AliExpress and eBay, but I accept I'm in a different position to you as I'm producing new designs, usually for production in China, so using modern components that can be easily sourced there.  
Rare 'vintage' parts are probably more likely to attract fraudsters.

However with parts such as ST microcontrollers and memories now being on 12 months delivery, I expect to see reclaimed parts from dead PCBs appearing which will pose another issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:markverbos at gmail.com] 
Sent: 25 May 2021 13:21
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Tom Wiltshire; ShedSynth; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Mike,
You have been lucky, or maybe just haven?t taken as many shots as I have.
Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. I have bought 8 on eBay to get to 2 working ones. It took me a while to accept that the one I had here and 2 others from eBay were all fakes, but then I ordered form a new place and still got more fakes, or at least not working ones. 

I am using a recently discontinued FIFO in a product. I bought them from a Chinese supplier from Alibaba, we?ve had around 30% junk on our reels. 

I have cloned the OB-MX voice board and collected a vast array of rare ICs from Alibaba companies. The card doesn?t work yet, so I am about to start the painful process of putting all of these chips onto my working board to see which ones are bullshit. Then, have no choice but to play Russian Roulette again to get replacements. 

As soon as I get this working, I will redesign it in SMT so I can pick N place it and get the much more available parts. 


Mark





> On May 22, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> Totally agree you have to check every package contains what you ordered.  And if not ask for a refund from eBay or AliExpress which you get automatically.
> 
> But at least 99% of the time you'll get the genuine thing.  Most of these ICs come from one of several surplus electronic component markets.  One of them in Shenzhen was in the news this week when the whole tower shook for some reason despite no earthquake.
> 
> This is a very big business where wholesalers buy run-ends from contract and OEM manufacturers, from Foxconn downwards, and then send out lists of what they have to hundreds of small two man and a dog companies who advertise on AliExpress/eBay.  That is why you often see the same component and photograph from several suppliers.  Once they have orders they go and buy the components from the wholesaler and ship it to you.  But of course this system allows those making counterfeits to slip them into the system.
> 
> But the only fakes I've encountered were ten OPA2134s in DIP-8.  I think they were LM394s or something like that so I just got my refund and used them as such.
> Biggest bargain - an end reel of 138 OPA2134s in SOIC-8 at 21p each.  I'd assumed they were something else but at that price it was worth a punt, and they were absolutely genuine.  Presumably the OEM orders by the thousand or more and the contract PCB assembler didn't want to change reel half way even on an expensive part like this.  If you order volume PCBs from China you will see  'wastage' number in the invoice but was surprised the OEM allowed this many to go to waste.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: 22 May 2021 13:44
> To: ShedSynth
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> 
> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 
>> and eBay items like these which still appear to have stock?
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of 
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
>> the DIP version of the part.  Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
>> links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
>> last order date May 12,
>> 2022:
>> 
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_202105121
>> 2
>> 340278
>> .pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.  CoolAudio 
>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>> data sheet.  I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible 
>> to hobbyists.  Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through 
>> LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
>> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
>> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
>> surface-mount version of a similar part).  Interestingly, they claim 
>> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
>> which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version 
>> from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for 
>> through-hole analog electronics.  If it makes sense to discontinue 
>> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to 
>> be worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products too.  Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org





From cjuried at yahoo.com  Tue May 25 15:25:08 2021
From: cjuried at yahoo.com (Chris Juried)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 13:25:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>

I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and only purchase from 100% authentic sources.?


Sincerely,

Christopher Juried 

https://juriedengineering.com/

FCC Licensed RF Coordinator

Audio Engineering Society (AES)?Member

 
 
  On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 8:42 AM, Mike Bryant<mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:   I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.? That's probably 25% LCSC/JLCPCB, 50% China/Philipines/etc (Alibaba, AliExpress, eBay and others) and 25% RS.

I am very careful who I order from on AliExpress and eBay, but I accept I'm in a different position to you as I'm producing new designs, usually for production in China, so using modern components that can be easily sourced there.? 
Rare 'vintage' parts are probably more likely to attract fraudsters.

However with parts such as ST microcontrollers and memories now being on 12 months delivery, I expect to see reclaimed parts from dead PCBs appearing which will pose another issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:markverbos at gmail.com] 
Sent: 25 May 2021 13:21
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Tom Wiltshire; ShedSynth; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Mike,
You have been lucky, or maybe just haven?t taken as many shots as I have.
Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. I have bought 8 on eBay to get to 2 working ones. It took me a while to accept that the one I had here and 2 others from eBay were all fakes, but then I ordered form a new place and still got more fakes, or at least not working ones. 

I am using a recently discontinued FIFO in a product. I bought them from a Chinese supplier from Alibaba, we?ve had around 30% junk on our reels. 

I have cloned the OB-MX voice board and collected a vast array of rare ICs from Alibaba companies. The card doesn?t work yet, so I am about to start the painful process of putting all of these chips onto my working board to see which ones are bullshit. Then, have no choice but to play Russian Roulette again to get replacements. 

As soon as I get this working, I will redesign it in SMT so I can pick N place it and get the much more available parts. 


Mark





> On May 22, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> Totally agree you have to check every package contains what you ordered.? And if not ask for a refund from eBay or AliExpress which you get automatically.
> 
> But at least 99% of the time you'll get the genuine thing.? Most of these ICs come from one of several surplus electronic component markets.? One of them in Shenzhen was in the news this week when the whole tower shook for some reason despite no earthquake.
> 
> This is a very big business where wholesalers buy run-ends from contract and OEM manufacturers, from Foxconn downwards, and then send out lists of what they have to hundreds of small two man and a dog companies who advertise on AliExpress/eBay.? That is why you often see the same component and photograph from several suppliers.? Once they have orders they go and buy the components from the wholesaler and ship it to you.? But of course this system allows those making counterfeits to slip them into the system.
> 
> But the only fakes I've encountered were ten OPA2134s in DIP-8.? I think they were LM394s or something like that so I just got my refund and used them as such.
> Biggest bargain - an end reel of 138 OPA2134s in SOIC-8 at 21p each.? I'd assumed they were something else but at that price it was worth a punt, and they were absolutely genuine.? Presumably the OEM orders by the thousand or more and the contract PCB assembler didn't want to change reel half way even on an expensive part like this.? If you order volume PCBs from China you will see? 'wastage' number in the invoice but was surprised the OEM allowed this many to go to waste.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> Tom Wiltshire
> Sent: 22 May 2021 13:44
> To: ShedSynth
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> In my opinion, trustworthiness of the source, primarily.
> 
> On eBay, you?re buying a chip. It might have the right number of legs. It might be marked with the right writing. It might even be the right chip. But that?s definitely not always the case.
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2021, at 11:22, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> 
>> What are the practical differences between the TI/CoolAudio LM13700 
>> and eBay items like these which still appear to have stock?
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162776473998
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172160273446
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of 
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca
>> Sent: 19 May 2021 13:07
>> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> It seems Texas Instruments is discontinuing the LM13700N - that is 
>> the DIP version of the part.? Mouser lists it as "End of Life" and 
>> links to this discontinuation notice dated May 12, 2021, with the 
>> last order date May 12,
>> 2022:
>> 
>> https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Texas_Instruments_PCN20210505000_202105121
>> 2
>> 340278
>> .pdf
>> 
>> I haven't been able to find this notice on the TI Web site, which 
>> still shows the product's status as "active," including the DIP version.
>> 
>> CoolAudio makes a 13700 clone and their data sheet describes both DIP 
>> and SOIC versions, but the DIP seems to be a unicorn.? CoolAudio 
>> doesn't sell it on their Web site, neither do any distributors, and a 
>> Web search for the purported part number of V13700D only turns up the 
>> data sheet.? I don't believe it really exists in any way accessible 
>> to hobbyists.? Maybe they'd make it for you if you ordered a million units.
>> 
>> A Chinese manufacturer called "XinLuDa" offers a DIP dual operational 
>> transconductance amplifier called the XD13700, available through 
>> LCSC, which seems to be a clone; I don't know how faithful it is or isn't.
>> They do note in their data sheet that there are differences in the 
>> buffer units between the XD13700 and XL13700 (which is their own 
>> surface-mount version of a similar part).? Interestingly, they claim 
>> that the DIP version is better - in which case why make them different at all?
>> 
>> Alfa offers a 3280 clone (data sheet says both DIP and SOIC, but the 
>> Web site only lists the SOIC); and something called the AS13704, 
>> which is a 13700-like OTA in a quad instead of dual configuration, and only in SOIC.
>> Neither can directly replace a DIP 13700.
>> 
>> I think the 13700 may be a bellwether for through-hole packages in general.
>> As basically the last OTA to be available in a through-hole version 
>> from a major manufacturer, it has a big share of the market for 
>> through-hole analog electronics.? If it makes sense to discontinue 
>> this product, that means the market in question is now too small to 
>> be worth serving anymore, and that assessment will be applied to other products too.? Memento mori.
>> 
>> --
>> Matthew Skala
>> mskala at ansuz.sooke.bc.ca? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? People before tribes.
>> https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
  
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From abide at dmdrafting.com  Tue May 25 18:22:05 2021
From: abide at dmdrafting.com (Dave Magnuson)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 12:22:05 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01d75182$1b833160$52899420$@dmdrafting.com>

Hi Tom,

 

I have a Brother ?P-Touch? label maker.  Works great for this

 

Dave

 

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of Tom Farrand via Synth-diy
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 2:33 AM
To: synth-diy mailing list <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods

 

I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.

 

How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is uniquely identified as "AF OUT BassStation" or other identity.  I was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)  A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, humidity, or other environmental issues.

 

As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!

 

Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to devise something new as a solution.

 

I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)  I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!  What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just who was Robert Moog!  My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!  The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was supposed to be working that day!)

 

Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!

 

Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana

 

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From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Tue May 25 19:37:18 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 18:37:18 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>

I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from 
members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, 
they won't believe you.

(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)


> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and only 
> purchase from 100% authentic sources.

>>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume. 

>>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. 


From jschwich53 at comcast.net  Tue May 25 19:47:12 2021
From: jschwich53 at comcast.net (Jay Schwichtenberg)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 10:47:12 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d8647879-7d18-8c15-88f7-9686070e3435@comcast.net>

A Sharpie and those plastic bread bag tags work for me.

Jay S.

On 5/24/2021 11:33 PM, Tom Farrand via Synth-diy wrote:
> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.? 
> Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as 
> "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables 
> dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated 
> wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
>
> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is 
> uniquely identified as "*AF OUT BassStation*" or other identity.? I 
> was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.? 
> These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one 
> would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel 
> business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.? My 
> issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only 
> sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.? There are 28 label 
> blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.? (You can print only one label per 
> pass or the whole sheet of 28.? Your choice.)? A thousand labels cost 
> about $350.00.? That's a lot of money for labeling cables.? Sure, 
> these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for 
> labeling.? But I do want something that is bullet-proof in 
> readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.? And I sure 
> don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, 
> humidity, or other environmental issues.
>
> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for 
> labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to 
> label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.? Since I 
> bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to 
> affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied 
> circumferentially to a cable near the connector.? Using a heat-shrink 
> gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I 
> don't know about!
>
> Any ideas are welcome!? Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to 
> devise something new as a solution.
>
> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.? 
> Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a 
> "trigger finger" on each hand.? This is rather debilitating but I 
> figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.? (Wishful 
> thinking?? Probably.)? I am now an old guy with white hair.? This 
> whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.? After he gave a 
> lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the 
> future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture. 
> Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!? What a very generous and 
> kind person he was.? I was shocked to notice that none of the 
> attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just *who was Robert 
> Moog! * My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!? The 
> lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head 
> of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I 
> was supposed to be working that day!)
>
> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered. Appreciated!
>
> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Tue May 25 20:37:33 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 11:37:33 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>

I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Lenham
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from
members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they
won't believe you.

(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)


> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and 
> only purchase from 100% authentic sources.

>>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume. 

>>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. 
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From quincas at gmail.com  Tue May 25 20:50:37 2021
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 13:50:37 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <d8647879-7d18-8c15-88f7-9686070e3435@comcast.net>
References: <d8647879-7d18-8c15-88f7-9686070e3435@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <E0A6CC36-FEDD-4C6F-A454-6A42C84F1DC1@gmail.com>

Hahaha, well i use shorthand on the black neutrik barrels, just numbers or L or R etc

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 May 2021, at 12:50, Jay Schwichtenberg via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> A Sharpie and those plastic bread bag tags work for me.
> 
> Jay S.
> 
> On 5/24/2021 11:33 PM, Tom Farrand via Synth-diy wrote:
>> I finally have the makings for a smaller-studio in my basement.  Recently I received a batch of cables of assorted descriptions such as "guitar cables", MIDI cables, various other audio cables, and cables dedicated to a Mackie mixer from assorted gizmos as well as dedicated wiring to things like equalizers, reverbs, vocoder, etc.
>> 
>> How does one identify cable ends such that the device connection is uniquely identified as "AF OUT BassStation" or other identity.  I was planning to mark each cable end using Panduit LJSL11-Y3 labels.  These work a treat, are printed on a laser printer exactly as one would want, and I have used these commercially in the control panel business for labeling "inside" wiring on various control systems.  My issue is that these label blanks are rather expensive and are only sold in quantities of 1,000 labels at the minimum.  There are 28 label blanks on each 8.5" x 11" sheet.  (You can print only one label per pass or the whole sheet of 28.  Your choice.)  A thousand labels cost about $350.00.  That's a lot of money for labeling cables.  Sure, these Panduit labels work a treat but damn, $350 is a lot of dough for labeling.  But I do want something that is bullet-proof in readability, and won't discolor over long periods of time.  And I sure don't want any gooey adhesive that will migrate over time due to heat, humidity, or other environmental issues.
>> 
>> As a very late-comer to the party, I have no idea what others do for labeling that does not cost a fortune, does not take 20 minutes to label one end of a cable, and won't destroy itself over time.  Since I bought commercially made cables and snakes, there is no opportunity to affix a label on a cable end unless the label can be applied circumferentially to a cable near the connector.  Using a heat-shrink gun and some shrink tubing won't cut it unless there is a secret I don't know about!
>> 
>> Any ideas are welcome!  Sometimes a couple of ideas might be merged to devise something new as a solution.
>> 
>> I would have made my own cables and this problem would not exist.  Trouble is, I now have arthritis that is quite painful and I have a "trigger finger" on each hand.  This is rather debilitating but I figure I can fix my musical mistakes, more or less in post.  (Wishful thinking?  Probably.)  I am now an old guy with white hair.  This whole bit of nonsense is the fault of Robert Moog.  After he gave a lecture at NIU back in 1973, I had the privilege of discussing the future of synthesizers with Dr. Moog for about an hour, post-lecture.  Wow! We chatted uninterrupted for an hour!  What a very generous and kind person he was.  I was shocked to notice that none of the attendees of Dr. Moog's lecture had a clue of just who was Robert Moog!  My chat with the good doctor was surprisingly one-on-one!  The lecture hall was devoid of attendees except for myself, and the head of the physics department in a local college near Motorola (where I was supposed to be working that day!)
>> 
>> Many thanks for any suggestions that might be offered.  Appreciated!
>> 
>> Tom Farrand - now retired in rural Indiana
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Tue May 25 21:01:01 2021
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (Terry Bowman)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 15:01:01 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <A52EA0C8-3958-4C5E-B5FE-154602A8D31B@gmail.com>


> On May 25, 2021, at 2:37 PM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.


Cardboard box?


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor?

?And if a message comes from Balaam?s ass, analyze the message, don?t worship an ass.??Dr. Gene Scott, circa 1985

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From cjuried at yahoo.com  Tue May 25 21:23:30 2021
From: cjuried at yahoo.com (Chris Juried)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 19:23:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <95493639.20440.1621970610744@mail.yahoo.com>

Interesting.


Sincerely,

Christopher Juried 

https://juriedengineering.com/

FCC Licensed RF Coordinator

Audio Engineering Society (AES)?Member

 
 
  On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 1:45 PM, Steve Lenham<steve at bendentech.co.uk> wrote:   I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from 
members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, 
they won't believe you.

(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)


> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and only 
> purchase from 100% authentic sources.

>>? ? I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume. 

>>>? ? Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. 
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
  
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From igg.debus at gmail.com  Tue May 25 21:34:25 2021
From: igg.debus at gmail.com (Ingo Debus)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 21:34:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <D203D8AF-EA65-49E9-AE26-1B93F2F1D22B@gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <D203D8AF-EA65-49E9-AE26-1B93F2F1D22B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11892F81-3FB1-484E-B6D8-ED1D376970A4@gmail.com>


> Am 25.05.2021 um 11:07 schrieb Ben Riggs via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> 
> Heat shrink label cartridges are available for some types of label printers, the one we use at work is a Brother P-touch. If you have a label printer, check to see it there is a shrink label cartridge available.

Yes, these are great. Kept one piece of white shrink tubing with something printed on it in my purse. It still looked like new after several months.

But to attach it to a cable you have to remove at least one plug, no?

Ingo


From dcurriden at hotmail.com  Tue May 25 22:27:17 2021
From: dcurriden at hotmail.com (Dan Curriden)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 20:27:17 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>,
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a rolled-up newspaper.

________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk <steve at bendentech.co.uk>; synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Lenham
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from
members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they
won't believe you.

(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)


> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and
> only purchase from 100% authentic sources.

>>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.

>>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From hbissell at wowway.com  Tue May 25 23:02:47 2021
From: hbissell at wowway.com (Mr&MrsAccount)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 17:02:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
 <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>

Newspaper?  You're lucky to have a newspaper. I keep mine in a basket woven out of marsh reeds...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Curriden via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk, synth-diy at synth-diy.org, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
Sent: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} 
Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a rolled-up newspaper.

From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk <steve at bendentech.co.uk>; synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

 


-----Original Message-----

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve

Lenham

Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM

To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org

Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]


I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from

members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they

won't believe you.


(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)



> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and 

> only purchase from 100% authentic sources.


>>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume. 


>>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. 

_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


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From jason at redfish.net  Tue May 25 23:10:31 2021
From: jason at redfish.net (Jason Proctor)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 14:10:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
 <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <CALQanAL_if5X=8RrmcdYCPshfA-cRT6gzdiuEqxSbJ5gPkBA7A@mail.gmail.com>

I keep mine in a hole in t'middle o' t'road.


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:08 PM Mr&MrsAccount <hbissell at wowway.com> wrote:

> Newspaper?  You're lucky to have a newspaper. I keep mine in a basket
> woven out of marsh reeds...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Curriden via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> To: steve at bendentech.co.uk, synth-diy at synth-diy.org, David G Dixon <
> dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
> Sent: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
>
> Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a rolled-up
> newspaper.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of David G
> Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
> *To:* steve at bendentech.co.uk <steve at bendentech.co.uk>;
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org
> <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] On Behalf Of Steve
>
> Lenham
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM
>
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
>
> I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from
>
> members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they
>
> won't believe you.
>
>
> (Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)
>
>
>
> > I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and
>
> > only purchase from 100% authentic sources.
>
>
> >>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.
>
>
> >>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From admin at bugbrand.co.uk  Tue May 25 23:10:57 2021
From: admin at bugbrand.co.uk (Tom Bugs)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:10:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <007301d74ef4$687258b0$39570a10$@gmail.com>
 <BC6D4FD2-7B15-4953-808E-38E3E65C38FF@electricdruid.net>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
 <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9887e9ee-fceb-a4fd-fca8-1a84a09dc8a4@bugbrand.co.uk>

Chips should always be wrapped in newspaper, of course.


On 25/05/2021 21:27, Dan Curriden via Synth-diy wrote:
> Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a 
> rolled-up newspaper.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of David 
> G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
> *To:* steve at bendentech.co.uk <steve at bendentech.co.uk>; 
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>] On Behalf Of Steve
> Lenham
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from
> members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they
> won't believe you.
>
> (Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)
>
>
> > I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and
> > only purchase from 100% authentic sources.
>
> >>???? I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.
>
> >>>???? Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

-- 
BugBrand LTD
UK company No. 07199808
VAT No. GB 988 2629 57
1 Ninetree Hill
BRISTOL BS1 3SB
United Kingdom
www.bugbrand.co.uk

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From chris at chrismusic.de  Tue May 25 23:16:57 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 23:16:57 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
Message-ID: <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites swimming
in our garden pool...

Chris



On Tue, 25 May 2021 17:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Mr&MrsAccount
<hbissell at wowway.com> wrote:

> Newspaper?  You're lucky to have a newspaper. I keep mine in a basket woven out of marsh reeds...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Curriden via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> To: steve at bendentech.co.uk, synth-diy at synth-diy.org, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca>
> Sent: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
>  P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} 
> Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a rolled-up newspaper.
> 
> From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> on behalf of David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
> To: steve at bendentech.co.uk <steve at bendentech.co.uk>; synth-diy at synth-diy.org <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve
> 
> Lenham
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM
> 
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> 
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> 
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
> 
> 
> I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from
> 
> members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they
> 
> won't believe you.
> 
> 
> (Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)
> 
> 
> 
> > I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and 
> 
> > only purchase from 100% authentic sources.
> 
> 
> >>     I buy over ??10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume. 
> 
> 
> >>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Synth-diy mailing list
> 
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Synth-diy mailing list
> 
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Tue May 25 23:51:25 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 21:51:25 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CALQanAL_if5X=8RrmcdYCPshfA-cRT6gzdiuEqxSbJ5gPkBA7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105190739170.2156@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>
 <ef567ed5ec744351bc61777e212586d3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0F2E8EC6-9BAF-4EED-948B-0963DAE085A8@gmail.com>
 <5d7cbf35b72e4b4ba62dd3698e1784f1@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <1235877538.1510300.1621949108213@mail.yahoo.com>
 <05bd68ed-792b-be4b-63f7-5c60425f730c@bendentech.co.uk>
 <3B200237655E4E0B97884B6281384322@david78c70950b>
 <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <CALQanAL_if5X=8RrmcdYCPshfA-cRT6gzdiuEqxSbJ5gPkBA7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d2ce1bc77b3e4d7284c0eeb881b69c97@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

My wife wishes all mine were buried in a hole in middle of road !

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Jason Proctor
Sent: 25 May 2021 22:11
To: Mr&MrsAccount
Cc: synth-diy mailing list
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I keep mine in a hole in t'middle o' t'road.


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:08 PM Mr&MrsAccount <hbissell at wowway.com<mailto:hbissell at wowway.com>> wrote:
Newspaper?  You're lucky to have a newspaper. I keep mine in a basket woven out of marsh reeds...

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Curriden via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk<mailto:steve at bendentech.co.uk>, synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>, David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca<mailto:dixon at mail.ubc.ca>>
Sent: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:27:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


Shoebox! Aye, you're lucky to have a box. Have to keep mine in a rolled-up newspaper.


________________________________
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org>> on behalf of David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:37 PM
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk<mailto:steve at bendentech.co.uk> <steve at bendentech.co.uk<mailto:steve at bendentech.co.uk>>; synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I keep all my semiconductors in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.




-----Original Message-----

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve

Lenham

Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:37 AM

To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>

Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]


I order $10 million of ICs every day and will only purchase them from

members of my own family. And if you tell that to the youth of today, they

won't believe you.


(Sorry, couldn't help it. No disrespect meant :-)



> I can relate. I spend in the order of $150,000 per year on IC's and

> only purchase from 100% authentic sources.


>>     I buy over ?10,000 of parts a year, so definitely get the volume.


>>>     Recently I needed 2 DG200 metal cans for a project.

_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>



_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Wed May 26 01:48:10 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 01:48:10 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>
> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites swimming
> in our garden pool...
>
> Chris

Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
graves, singing hallelujah.


From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Wed May 26 05:18:38 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 23:18:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UDmXxrvTNOfk2Dswnna6YGotcorhKdO39noNATk9s+sHg@mail.gmail.com>

This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke
out on a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the
discussion down.  He really hates Monty Python.

MC

On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>>
>> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites swimming
>> in our garden pool...
>>
>> Chris
>
> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
> graves, singing hallelujah.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Wed May 26 05:42:40 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 23:42:40 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Cable Label choices and Preparation Methods
In-Reply-To: <11892F81-3FB1-484E-B6D8-ED1D376970A4@gmail.com>
References: <CAGYZNz8uE0v=NGdyYKwz9nEWtN9a1xkdR2giupxe3y+ceWccuQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <D203D8AF-EA65-49E9-AE26-1B93F2F1D22B@gmail.com>
 <11892F81-3FB1-484E-B6D8-ED1D376970A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBp9paQaUokYcH4LwHj0ED8ek7pqZtLaio8W7dQv1cq=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Heat gun and shrink tubing has been my preferred methods for over 30
years.  I don't label them by device names.

I build my own cables and had developed a convention of using cable
lengths in multiples of 3, 6, 10, 15, and 25 ft.  Any cable 10 ft or
longer gets shrink tubing.  I use short tubing bands indicating the
cable length - a single band is 5 ft multiple so 3 bands is a 15ft
cable, 5 bands is a 25 ft cables.  I have more of the long cables than
the short ones, and this color coding helps immensely to following
cable routing.  With various colors of shrink tubing, I can get more
than enough permutations of color combinations for the cables I make.

I have a few cables over 25 ft, they get an extra wide tubing band.  I
also have insert cables with TRS plugs, I label these with one wide
band then short bands over the wide one.

Some of my MIDI cables are 5-wire, I just write "5-wire" on the DIN shell.

I don't like using tape labels - the adhesive dries out with age, and
I never liked the gum residue that is left behind on the cable.

MC

On 5/25/21, Ingo Debus via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>> Am 25.05.2021 um 11:07 schrieb Ben Riggs via Synth-diy
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
>>
>> Heat shrink label cartridges are available for some types of label
>> printers, the one we use at work is a Brother P-touch. If you have a label
>> printer, check to see it there is a shrink label cartridge available.
>
> Yes, these are great. Kept one piece of white shrink tubing with something
> printed on it in my purse. It still looked like new after several months.
>
> But to attach it to a cable you have to remove at least one plug, no?
>
> Ingo
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


From jgrisso at det3.net  Wed May 26 07:28:53 2021
From: jgrisso at det3.net (Joe Grisso)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 22:28:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] touch-sensitive switches - how?
In-Reply-To: <98309733-C602-495D-96FB-9B07D477813C@audiobanshee.com>
References: <53afe90e-22b8-2567-a3f2-d61fa8a3813e@gmx.com>
 <98309733-C602-495D-96FB-9B07D477813C@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <CACwKyhAp+af6NM_oGghkvCEc8pEOgG9UpWFpohc-CPwZkFc5rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,

     I wanted to add a bit on the MCU-integrated solutions. You can
get LOTS of channels nowadays because MCUs have added a
mutual-capacitance sensing option in addition to the self-capacitance
sensing option. Instead of (n-1) or (n-2) pins available for
capacitive touch sensing, it can be a lot more, by configuring the
pins into a sensing matrix - this is actually how touchpads in laptops
and cell phones work. 4 tx and 4 rx lines can create a grid of 16
keys. If you're just looking for on/off functionality, this is super
easy and can be brought up on a board in less than a day with most
toolkits. Then you can get into sliders and touchpads as well, and
have some very wild user interface solutions.

Best,

Joe

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 3:21 PM Brian Willoughby
<brianw at audiobanshee.com> wrote:
>
> There's not much magic in the microcontroller implementations. It's basically all the hardware of a discrete solution, but built-in and preconfigured. Generate a high frequency square wave, feed it into one plate of a capacitor, measure the frequency (or amplitude) and use changes in frequency (or amplitude) to detect a touch.
>
> Cons:
> A) Some MCU chips have a fixed frequency generator that fails miserably in the face of certain kinds of noise. I worked with a client who designed a product that only failed in one employee's home. Investigation revealed that this particular chip manufacturer had a poor design. Competitor MCU chips would adapt to noise, or used spread spectrum, or some technique that made the cap sense work everywhere, despite noise.
> B) Most MCU chips have only one cap sense input, or if they have more than one then Murphy's Law is that it will still be less than the number of cap sense channels you need.
>
> Pros:
> A) All of the basics are handled, so it saves you time setting up details that have already been solved.
> B) For those manufacturers that adapt to noise, it's especially helpful that your design doesn't have to bother with those details.
>
> If you need lots of channels (buttons), though, then a discrete design might be better because you can incorporate a multiplexer to expand to large numbers of cap sense inputs.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2021, at 11:50, Neil Harper wrote:
> > how are touch-sensitive switches like the ones on this done?:
> >
> > https://www.perfectcircuit.com/random-source-tkb-3-5mm-jacks.html
> >
> > being able to do something like this, especially if it's latching  (one
> > press on, one press off) would come in very handy. but i've never come
> > across it in any diy schematics.
> >
> > i see that a few microcontrollers like the teensy have capacitance touch
> > pins, but i'm wondering if things like sequencer are done all discrete?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



-- 
Joe Grisso
Detachment 3, Ltd.



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May 26 11:05:34 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 09:05:34 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UDmXxrvTNOfk2Dswnna6YGotcorhKdO39noNATk9s+sHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UDmXxrvTNOfk2Dswnna6YGotcorhKdO39noNATk9s+sHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>


AH ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
Sent: 26 May 2021 04:19
To: cheater cheater
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke out on a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the discussion down.  He really hates Monty Python.

MC

On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>>
>> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites 
>> swimming in our garden pool...
>>
>> Chris
>
> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in 
> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented 
> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons 
> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work 
> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we 
> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our 
> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then 
> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time, 
> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our 
> graves, singing hallelujah.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From sines_list at scale.la  Wed May 26 13:30:04 2021
From: sines_list at scale.la (Todd Sines)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 07:30:04 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>

As in Analogue Heaven, the analogue-focused synth mailing list I created in 1992 ? and thankfully, no longer moderate ;)


Todd


> On May 26, 2021, at 5:12 AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> AH ?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
> Sent: 26 May 2021 04:19
> To: cheater cheater
> Cc: synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> 
> This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke out on a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the discussion down.  He really hates Monty Python.
> 
> MC
> 
>> On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites 
>>> swimming in our garden pool...
>>> 
>>> Chris
>> 
>> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in 
>> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
>> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented 
>> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons 
>> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work 
>> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we 
>> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our 
>> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then 
>> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time, 
>> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our 
>> graves, singing hallelujah.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Wed May 26 15:23:24 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 09:23:24 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>

I was NOT referring to you, Todd.

MC

On 5/26/21, Todd Sines <sines_list at scale.la> wrote:
> As in Analogue Heaven, the analogue-focused synth mailing list I created in
> 1992 ? and thankfully, no longer moderate ;)
>
>
> Todd
>
>
>> On May 26, 2021, at 5:12 AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> AH ?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
>> Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
>> Sent: 26 May 2021 04:19
>> To: cheater cheater
>> Cc: synth-diy
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>>
>> This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke out
>> on a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the discussion down.
>>  He really hates Monty Python.
>>
>> MC
>>
>>> On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites
>>>> swimming in our garden pool...
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
>>> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
>>> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
>>> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
>>> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
>>> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
>>> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
>>> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
>>> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
>>> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
>>> graves, singing hallelujah.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May 26 16:30:04 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 14:30:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
Message-ID: <475e3b91cfab4a57b8250fb109e13128@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Yes I thought it was another AH forum full of people who can ?hear? a TL072 ;-)


From: Todd Sines [mailto:sines_list at scale.la]
Sent: 26 May 2021 12:30
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Cc: Mike Bryant; Michael E Caloroso
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

As in Analogue Heaven, the analogue-focused synth mailing list I created in 1992 ? and thankfully, no longer moderate ;)

Todd




On May 26, 2021, at 5:12 AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com<mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:
?
AH ?

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
Sent: 26 May 2021 04:19
To: cheater cheater
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke out on a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the discussion down.  He really hates Monty Python.

MC

On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de<mailto:chris at chrismusic.de>> wrote:

Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites
swimming in our garden pool...

Chris

Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
graves, singing hallelujah.
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
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From btremblay at me.com  Wed May 26 16:48:00 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 10:48:00 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
 <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>

Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.

When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.

When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?

Thanks,

Ben


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May 26 16:58:09 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 14:58:09 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
 <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>
Message-ID: <f3a165dcc7aa419a8f11129b3c142319@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

The TL07x is just a selected TL08x, mostly for gain, which translates to better offset voltage and sometimes slightly better noise.  
Can you measure the difference ?  Just about
Can you hear the difference ?   Except in a mic amp, probably no chance, and even then probably only with an AP to convince you the noise is 1dB more above the theoretical noise floor.  It's only when you get into something like a 40 channel mixer that all these noises start adding up to something annoying.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
Sent: 26 May 2021 15:48
To: Michael E Caloroso
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.

When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.

When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?

Thanks,

Ben
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Wed May 26 19:45:59 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 19:45:59 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <f3a165dcc7aa419a8f11129b3c142319@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
 <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>
 <f3a165dcc7aa419a8f11129b3c142319@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:02 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> The TL07x is just a selected TL08x, mostly for gain, which translates to better offset voltage and sometimes slightly better noise.
> Can you measure the difference ?  Just about
> Can you hear the difference ?   Except in a mic amp, probably no chance, and even then probably only with an AP to convince you the noise is 1dB more above the theoretical noise floor.  It's only when you get into something like a 40 channel mixer that all these noises start adding up to something annoying.

It can easily matter when doing stereo. 1dB of difference can shift
the stereo field.
It can easily matter in a thing that uses many op amps in series. Like
a filter or a crossover.
You don't need an AP unit to measure low noise. You can use a Levell
TM3B, which goes real cheap, plus possibly a J-Can LNA (diy) if
necessary.

The Levell TM3B has super low self noise and input capacitance and the
right bandwidth for an audio meter.

J-Can: http://physicsopenlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JCan-NV-article.pdf


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
> Sent: 26 May 2021 15:48
> To: Michael E Caloroso
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.
>
> When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
> But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.
>
> When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Wed May 26 19:48:49 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 19:48:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <C6CCE8F3F28A4014862C760395DB86F9@david78c70950b>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UDmXxrvTNOfk2Dswnna6YGotcorhKdO39noNATk9s+sHg@mail.gmail.com>
 <C6CCE8F3F28A4014862C760395DB86F9@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_BxJ090ikeiperO6+_czuhtyqzeLrTXZjQ7F_-Ub-hRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:37 PM David G Dixon <dixon at mail.ubc.ca> wrote:
>
> What is AH?  It sounds pretty sketchy to me.

It's the sound you realize you're taking your topic to a forum where
people don't have anything to add. Or mistakenly off-list :-)

You should probably set your client to include the cc header in
reply-to-all. I can see it, it's right there.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
> Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:19 PM
> To: cheater cheater
> Cc: synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> This is why I love SDIY over AH sometimes.  If a Python tangent broke out on
> a thread on AH, the Python-hating admin would shut the discussion down.  He
> really hates Monty Python.
>
> MC
>
> On 5/25/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 11:19 PM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> Marsh reeds? When I was a little boy, we still had trilobites
> >> swimming in our garden pool...
> >>
> >> Chris
> >
> > Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
> > the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
> > i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
> > yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
> > every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
> > for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
> > had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
> > father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
> > we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
> > after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
> > graves, singing hallelujah.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


From btremblay at me.com  Wed May 26 19:51:21 2021
From: btremblay at me.com (Benjamin Tremblay)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 13:51:21 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>

So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s the pearl and I am the swine.

Benjamin Tremblay

> On May 26, 2021, at 1:46 PM, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:02 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The TL07x is just a selected TL08x, mostly for gain, which translates to better offset voltage and sometimes slightly better noise.
>> Can you measure the difference ?  Just about
>> Can you hear the difference ?   Except in a mic amp, probably no chance, and even then probably only with an AP to convince you the noise is 1dB more above the theoretical noise floor.  It's only when you get into something like a 40 channel mixer that all these noises start adding up to something annoying.
> 
> It can easily matter when doing stereo. 1dB of difference can shift
> the stereo field.
> It can easily matter in a thing that uses many op amps in series. Like
> a filter or a crossover.
> You don't need an AP unit to measure low noise. You can use a Levell
> TM3B, which goes real cheap, plus possibly a J-Can LNA (diy) if
> necessary.
> 
> The Levell TM3B has super low self noise and input capacitance and the
> right bandwidth for an audio meter.
> 
> J-Can: http://physicsopenlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JCan-NV-article.pdf
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
>> Sent: 26 May 2021 15:48
>> To: Michael E Caloroso
>> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>> 
>> Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.
>> 
>> When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
>> But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.
>> 
>> When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Ben
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Wed May 26 19:52:44 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2021 17:52:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
 <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>
 <f3a165dcc7aa419a8f11129b3c142319@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4cd8021dfbf2458ba687b9b823b1a571@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

The open loop gain of an op-amp will make no difference to the stereo levels - that is purely down to the accuracy of the gain setting resistors.

And the signal has already been through at least two to three dozen op-amps in series getting to you.  A few more are going to make very little difference.

And whilst a good instrument, a Levell TM3B is not going to accurately measure the -128dbu noise output of a mic amp.  It doesn't have the correct filters to start with.


-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: 26 May 2021 18:46
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Benjamin Tremblay; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:02 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> The TL07x is just a selected TL08x, mostly for gain, which translates to better offset voltage and sometimes slightly better noise.
> Can you measure the difference ?  Just about
> Can you hear the difference ?   Except in a mic amp, probably no chance, and even then probably only with an AP to convince you the noise is 1dB more above the theoretical noise floor.  It's only when you get into something like a 40 channel mixer that all these noises start adding up to something annoying.

It can easily matter when doing stereo. 1dB of difference can shift the stereo field.
It can easily matter in a thing that uses many op amps in series. Like a filter or a crossover.
You don't need an AP unit to measure low noise. You can use a Levell TM3B, which goes real cheap, plus possibly a J-Can LNA (diy) if necessary.

The Levell TM3B has super low self noise and input capacitance and the right bandwidth for an audio meter.

J-Can: http://physicsopenlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JCan-NV-article.pdf


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
> Sent: 26 May 2021 15:48
> To: Michael E Caloroso
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.
>
> When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
> But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.
>
> When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 27 06:57:55 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 06:57:55 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <4cd8021dfbf2458ba687b9b823b1a571@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <c5802e2f656845b1895f4e9e52574208@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <FE9AB9D4-746A-433A-8165-A694951653D6@scale.la>
 <CAAv6=UBAbc5ePCt8A1CzG0d7g6aNwDKtR7xeGCtjJUrxOhtDSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0A692D2B-A8CF-47FC-968A-0694F6F5A6D0@me.com>
 <f3a165dcc7aa419a8f11129b3c142319@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4cd8021dfbf2458ba687b9b823b1a571@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--+cZnQ=rxYSqte9iz8pkRsR_XasAGy5ovY18AkxY4DKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, as I understand the filters are something you should build
yourself and attach to the front end.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:52 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> The open loop gain of an op-amp will make no difference to the stereo levels - that is purely down to the accuracy of the gain setting resistors.
>
> And the signal has already been through at least two to three dozen op-amps in series getting to you.  A few more are going to make very little difference.
>
> And whilst a good instrument, a Levell TM3B is not going to accurately measure the -128dbu noise output of a mic amp.  It doesn't have the correct filters to start with.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com]
> Sent: 26 May 2021 18:46
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: Benjamin Tremblay; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:02 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> >
> > The TL07x is just a selected TL08x, mostly for gain, which translates to better offset voltage and sometimes slightly better noise.
> > Can you measure the difference ?  Just about
> > Can you hear the difference ?   Except in a mic amp, probably no chance, and even then probably only with an AP to convince you the noise is 1dB more above the theoretical noise floor.  It's only when you get into something like a 40 channel mixer that all these noises start adding up to something annoying.
>
> It can easily matter when doing stereo. 1dB of difference can shift the stereo field.
> It can easily matter in a thing that uses many op amps in series. Like a filter or a crossover.
> You don't need an AP unit to measure low noise. You can use a Levell TM3B, which goes real cheap, plus possibly a J-Can LNA (diy) if necessary.
>
> The Levell TM3B has super low self noise and input capacitance and the right bandwidth for an audio meter.
>
> J-Can: http://physicsopenlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/JCan-NV-article.pdf
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
> > Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
> > Sent: 26 May 2021 15:48
> > To: Michael E Caloroso
> > Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
> >
> > Okay, I will go off on a tangent in this near-dead thread.
> >
> > When I was a kid, I could only get the TL08 series op amps at Radio Shack. I see you audio people like the TL07s better, so I went and bought a tube of TL071, TL072, and TL074.
> > But I?m still going through my stock of TL084s.
> >
> > When would be a case where I pull the TL08 from its socket and replace it with a TL07? What am I getting?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ben
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Thu May 27 07:15:37 2021
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (Terry Bowman)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 01:15:37 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C27CCB02-06B5-43A9-AEE2-90688C63B8AA@gmail.com>


> On May 25, 2021, at 7:48 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
> graves, singing hallelujah.


Luxury.

There are multiple versions of this sketch, each with a considerable amount of improv. The most polished is on a live Python album, the name of which escapes me.

Here's something few Python fans have ever seen?the earliest version (that I know of):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1mGoLDRbc


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com

?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980


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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 27 07:42:35 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 07:42:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <C27CCB02-06B5-43A9-AEE2-90688C63B8AA@gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
 <C27CCB02-06B5-43A9-AEE2-90688C63B8AA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_UsbkCo4sSpwMs68O7692ng7Dws6W5tQGuL53L8cFHQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Aye, too bad about t'bigotry nowadays though

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 7:19 AM Terry Bowman via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>
> On May 25, 2021, at 7:48 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Trilobytes? You were lucky. We used to have to get up every day, in
> the morning, at 10 pm, half an hour before we went to bed, and by "up"
> i don't mean anything, because three-dimensional space wasn't invented
> yet, we had to eat ccfl light bulbs for breakfast, invent electrons
> every day before the universe collapsed into a singularity again, work
> for 100 hours buying only fake parts from alibaba, which website we
> had to invent all over again, and make the parts work, otherwise our
> father would lash us severely, which he always did anyways, and then
> we went to bed, which was only a hypothetical construct at that time,
> after which father would murder us in our sleep, and dance on our
> graves, singing hallelujah.
>
>
> Luxury.
>
> There are multiple versions of this sketch, each with a considerable amount of improv. The most polished is on a live Python album, the name of which escapes me.
>
> Here's something few Python fans have ever seen?the earliest version (that I know of):
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1mGoLDRbc
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> ?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu May 27 09:01:10 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 00:01:10 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
Message-ID: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>

Hey SDIY Team,
 
Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly
unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
 
What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
 
I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my
two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they
came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.
Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some
of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some
were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of
100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
 
I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so
much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got
shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping
them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
 
Cheers,
Dave Dixon
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Thu May 27 09:30:07 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 09:30:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9SMH3e18J6ie0qW4f-7LO8s9a2timkK8cq6yBMm7iJ4w@mail.gmail.com>

Figure out how many ounces fit in each type of bag, and start a
different type of business.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:07 AM David G Dixon via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Hey SDIY Team,
>
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Thu May 27 10:06:00 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 09:06:00 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxK7T3NXV38aX2HWHUH8ChmRXyBVOGCRvHZWBxnjyQf6-w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

Are these all ziplock bags?  Any antistatic bags?

If they're re-usable then perhaps some suggestions:
- local charity shops (good for selling small items)
- local schools (kids can keep bugs or other small things in them, or maybe
art?)
- local hackspace (storing small parts, etc)

Cheers,
Neil



On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 08:05, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Hey SDIY Team,
>
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly
> unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for
> my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags
> they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie
> ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty
> bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger
> bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a
> small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like
> so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already
> got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just
> dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From modular at go2.pl  Thu May 27 10:10:38 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:10:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <706e07e1-5f60-b02b-fadb-892b638188c6@go2.pl>

I use them to pack stuff for my customers and when I carry something 
small between work and home. Still a lot left, but they're not flooding me.
Nevertheless I can't understand some packing techniques DigiKey and many 
others use: one small bag, inside there is another bag with 
potentiometer, then another one with a nut, and another one with washer.

Maybe there is a way to comact them at higher temperature to form a 
brick out of them, then build a plastic house.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o?09:01, David G Dixon via Synth-diy pisze:
> Hey SDIY Team,
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly 
> unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for 
> my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the 
> bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red 
> Sharpie ink.? Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 
> empty bags.? Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a 
> bigger bag.? Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.? Quite a few 
> were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical 
> label.
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like 
> so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.? I've 
> already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.? I 
> hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Thu May 27 10:12:34 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 09:12:34 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <1eead756-be86-01f5-eb3f-139a69c7216e@bendentech.co.uk>

Whilst acknowledging that it is not much of a problem in the grand 
scheme of things, what irritates me every time about Digikey bags is 
that they use labels which cannot be peeled off the bags. A clean bag is 
so much easier to find another use for than one with a honking great 
data label covering one side. And it is purely down to their choice of 
adhesive - other distributors use labels which peel off cleanly, leaving 
bags that I can use for shipping parts to clients, etc.

Like you, I still keep them in the hope that they will be useful 
for...something. If you've got hundreds of them then it frankly seems 
unlikely. I do use a dozen or so when stripping down a large, complex 
device, putting each set of screws, etc. into a separate labelled bag: 
"top lid", "internal shield", "power supply to chassis", etc.

Cheers,

Steve L.


On 27/05/2021 08:01, David G Dixon via Synth-diy wrote:
> Hey SDIY Team,
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly 
> unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for 
> my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the 
> bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red 
> Sharpie ink.? Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 
> empty bags.? Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a 
> bigger bag.? Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.? Quite a few 
> were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical 
> label.
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like 
> so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.? I've 
> already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.? I 
> hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 



From markverbos at gmail.com  Thu May 27 10:26:44 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:26:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>

Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac vs. PC?..
Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters if nothing is in stock until July 2022)

Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, especially bags. 

Mark



> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey SDIY Team,
>  
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>  
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>  
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>  
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>  
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu May 27 10:35:36 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 01:35:36 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E7E1154382F45F4AE8D61EB191200F2@david78c70950b>

Mark, it's down to pure habit.  I found what I needed on Digikey and the
delivery was hyperfast, and I love the free shipping for orders over $100,
and they pay the duties and customs, etc, etc.  I suppose Mouser does all
the same things, and maybe I'll try them next time, if the prices are
better.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mark verbos [mailto:markverbos at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 1:27 AM
To: David G Dixon
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac vs.
PC...
Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? The
search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters if
nothing is in stock until July 2022)

Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, especially
bags. 

Mark



> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey SDIY Team,
>  
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly
unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>  
> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>  
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for
my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags
they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.
Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some
of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some
were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of
100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>  
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like
so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already
got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just
dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>  
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From doug at synthark.com  Thu May 27 17:05:10 2021
From: doug at synthark.com (doug at synthark.com)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 09:05:10 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
Message-ID: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>

I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).  
While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of 
the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes 
sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm 
guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd 
(since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a 
better solution?

Thanks,
-- 
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 17:23:33 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 15:23:33 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB manufacturer for something like this though

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of doug at synthark.com
Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
To: Synth-diy
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).  
While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a better solution?

Thanks,
--
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Thu May 27 17:26:47 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:26:47 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_6rvajkab2+WHH+cz7mokNr-OVKtSZBmGR3iRV29GZNg@mail.gmail.com>

I've had fabs make large holes, using a circle on the edge cuts layer.
Didn't have any problems with it....  Then it's up to them to figure out
how to cut it.

Pete

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:23 AM <doug at synthark.com> wrote:

> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of
> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm
> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
> (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a
> better solution?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 27 17:38:30 2021
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:38:30 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR_6rvajkab2+WHH+cz7mokNr-OVKtSZBmGR3iRV29GZNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACodTR_6rvajkab2+WHH+cz7mokNr-OVKtSZBmGR3iRV29GZNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33107eeb-fcee-b69a-af38-ca09c280538d@ix.netcom.com>

I use KiCad. I just put any large cut outs, circular or otherwise, on 
the edge cuts layer. I've had no issues with any of the board houses I used.

On 5/27/21 10:26 AM, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy wrote:
> I've had fabs make large holes, using a circle on the edge cuts 
> layer.? Didn't have any problems with it....? Then it's up to them to 
> figure out how to cut it.
>
> Pete
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:23 AM <doug at synthark.com 
> <mailto:doug at synthark.com>> wrote:
>
>     I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI,
>     USB).
>     While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags
>     most of
>     the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
>     sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.?
>     I'm
>     guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
>     (since the USB hole is not circular).? Can anyone confirm or
>     provide a
>     better solution?
>
>     Thanks,
>     -- 
>     Doug Huseby
>     http://synthark.com <http://synthark.com>
>     http://synthark.org <http://synthark.org>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Synth-diy mailing list
>     Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>     http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>     <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
>     Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>     <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From jpdesroc at oricom.ca  Thu May 27 17:49:52 2021
From: jpdesroc at oricom.ca (Jean-Pierre Desrochers)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:49:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>

Using Mouser, if you want a fast 1-2 days delivery time you need to pay $20 for FedEx.

If you want to pay no more than $8.00 for shipping then it's USPS shipping with 1-2 WEEKS..
Very annoying.

I'm located in Canada.

Mouser helps buyers with big orders often exceeding $100..
No shipping cost and better prices.
Digikey has higher prices but with very small orders and 1-2day FedEx delivery at $8.00CAD
I prefer that..

 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de mark verbos via Synth-diy
Envoy? : 27 mai 2021 04:27
? : David G Dixon
Cc : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Objet : Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags

 

Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac vs. PC?..

Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters if nothing is in stock until July 2022)

 

Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, especially bags. 

 

Mark

 

 

 

> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy < <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> 

> Hey SDIY Team,

>  

> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:

>  

> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?

>  

> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.

>  

> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.

>  

> Cheers,

> Dave Dixon

> _______________________________________________

> Synth-diy mailing list

>  <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

>  <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

> Selling or trading? Use  <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org> marketplace at synth-diy.org

 

 

_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

 <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org

 <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use  <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org> marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From notontv at gmail.com  Thu May 27 17:57:18 2021
From: notontv at gmail.com (Benjamin Mortimer)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:57:18 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <86D59C29-BA0C-4189-AEC0-27A7F81F918E@gmail.com>

Ask Robin, she knows what to do with them?
http://www.plasticbagstore.org/

> 
> > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> >  
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Dixon
> 
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Thu May 27 18:01:38 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 09:01:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <8E7E1154382F45F4AE8D61EB191200F2@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <8E7E1154382F45F4AE8D61EB191200F2@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <9fc9fecc-8903-d90d-2664-bf62f05c4349@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

I'd be curious how that works out. I suspect DigiKey is more 
Canada-aware being in North Dakota. Mouser is in Texas. Maybe people in 
Mexico get better service from Digikey? I haven't bought electronics in 
Canada since the Active Components days.

In the US I find that's Mouser's 2-day Fedex is pretty cheap and 
obviously fast. I don't know if there is a free Mouser shipping option 
and didn't know that DigiKey had one either.

As for the bags, I agree that the giant labels make them un-reusable for 
most things. Even if they placed the labels "higher up" it would help 
because then you could cut that segment of the bag off and still have a 
portion of usable bag left.

GB

On 5/27/2021 1:35 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy wrote:
> Mark, it's down to pure habit.  I found what I needed on Digikey and the
> delivery was hyperfast, and I love the free shipping for orders over $100,
> and they pay the duties and customs, etc, etc.  I suppose Mouser does all
> the same things, and maybe I'll try them next time, if the prices are
> better.
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark verbos [mailto:markverbos at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 1:27 AM
> To: David G Dixon
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac vs.
> PC...
> Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? The
> search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters if
> nothing is in stock until July 2022)
>
> Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, especially
> bags.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> Hey SDIY Team,
>>   
>> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly
> unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>>   
>> What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>>   
>> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for
> my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags
> they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.
> Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some
> of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some
> were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of
> 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>>   
>> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like
> so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already
> got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just
> dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>>   
>> Cheers,
>> Dave Dixon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> .



From electrocontinuo at gmail.com  Thu May 27 18:04:07 2021
From: electrocontinuo at gmail.com (Peter Pearson)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:04:07 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <86D59C29-BA0C-4189-AEC0-27A7F81F918E@gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <86D59C29-BA0C-4189-AEC0-27A7F81F918E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qbVc8LmvoHQB9YB=-tA1AqDAhHPas5EY7zpL1Ez4yBJeTdqw@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I have several big bag bags filled with multiple bag bags.  Some of
those bag bags have bag bags inside them as well.  It's bags all the way
down.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 12:00 PM Benjamin Mortimer via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Ask Robin, she knows what to do with them?
> http://www.plasticbagstore.org/
>
>
> > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like
> so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already
> got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just
> dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Dixon
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Thu May 27 18:30:37 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 17:30:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <33107eeb-fcee-b69a-af38-ca09c280538d@ix.netcom.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACodTR_6rvajkab2+WHH+cz7mokNr-OVKtSZBmGR3iRV29GZNg@mail.gmail.com>
 <33107eeb-fcee-b69a-af38-ca09c280538d@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3e13d6c6-3327-2ff1-8575-cb0db4d166dd@bendentech.co.uk>

Just wanted to backup what others have said - put anything large like 
that on the "board outline" layer and the fab will rout it out along 
with everything else. It is an absolutely normal part of the process and 
all sorts of features - gaps between panelised boards, slots for 
mounting tabs, etc - are created in the same way.

Your PCB fab will specify the size of router they use (often 2mm) and 
this defines the narrowest gap and tightest radius that you can achieve.

When you realise that:

a) PCBs can be ANY shape you like, with all sorts of cutouts in them and
b) you can panelise all sorts of pieces onto your main board and the 
incremental cost of each one is negligible,

...it is very empowering. You can get creative with it:

https://hackaday.io/project/162654-pcb-3d-startrek-enterprise

...but on a more mundane level, there are lots of times where a chunk of 
PCB can be used as a custom mounting plate, or a small panel, or to make 
a particular component quicker/easier to connect to - and so on.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound Technology


On 27/05/2021 16:38, Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy wrote:
> I use KiCad. I just put any large cut outs, circular or otherwise, on 
> the edge cuts layer. I've had no issues with any of the board houses I used.
> 
> On 5/27/21 10:26 AM, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy wrote:
>> I've had fabs make large holes, using a circle on the edge cuts 
>> layer.? Didn't have any problems with it....? Then it's up to them to 
>> figure out how to cut it.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:23 AM <doug at synthark.com 
>> <mailto:doug at synthark.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI,
>>     USB).
>>     While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags
>>     most of
>>     the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
>>     sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes. 
>>     I'm
>>     guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
>>     (since the USB hole is not circular).? Can anyone confirm or
>>     provide a
>>     better solution?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     -- 
>>     Doug Huseby


From doug at synthark.com  Thu May 27 18:35:57 2021
From: doug at synthark.com (doug at synthark.com)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 10:35:57 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>

Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board 
Cutout layer and built the holes that way.

BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut
> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with
> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB
> manufacturer for something like this though
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
> doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most
> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which
> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large
> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after
> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm
> or provide a better solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 18:38:37 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 16:38:37 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

If you're not using EasyEDA then make sure you fully check the Gerbers they return to you for sign off as you'll find small changes.   Using EasyEDA avoids this.

-----Original Message-----
From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com] 
Sent: 27 May 2021 17:36
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board Cutout layer and built the holes that way.

BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut 
> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with 
> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB 
> manufacturer for something like this though
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most 
> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which 
> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large 
> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after 
> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm 
> or provide a better solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Thu May 27 18:39:46 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 17:39:46 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <983c62e1-0a1d-0529-082e-ad83f378b19c@bendentech.co.uk>

Sounds like the deal varies quite a bit depending on where you are. I'm 
in the UK, and both Mouser and Digikey offer free transatlantic shipping 
for orders above GBP33 (about US$50). They come in via UPS and usually 
arrive in two working days. Apparently it is funded by overcharging 
their Canadian customers ;-)

Historically I have found that Mouser tend to be slicker and more 
competitive on price, but just recently I have been surprised when 
Digikey came out cheaper on a few things. I always shop around, but 
others may have more money than time.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound Technology


On 27/05/2021 16:49, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
> Using Mouser, if you want a fast 1-2 days delivery time you need to pay 
> $20 for FedEx.
> 
> If you want to pay no more than $8.00 for shipping then it's USPS 
> shipping with 1-2 WEEKS..
> Very annoying.
> 
> I'm located in Canada.
> 
> *Mouser*helps buyers with big orders often exceeding $100..
> No shipping cost and better prices.
> *Digikey* has higher prices but with very small orders and 1-2day FedEx 
> delivery at $8.00CAD
> I prefer that..
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De?: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de 
> mark verbos via Synth-diy
> Envoy??: 27 mai 2021 04:27
> ??: David G Dixon
> Cc?: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet?: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags
> 
> Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac 
> vs. PC?..
> 
> Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? 
> The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters 
> if nothing is in stock until July 2022)
> 
> Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, 
> especially bags.
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Hey SDIY Team,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a 
> fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have 
> also pondered:
> 
>  >
> 
>  > What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors 
> for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the 
> bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red 
> Sharpie ink.? Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 
> empty bags.? Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a 
> bigger bag.? Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.? Quite a few 
> were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical 
> label.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows 
> like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.? I've 
> already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.? I 
> hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Cheers,
> 
>  > Dave Dixon
> 
>  > _______________________________________________


From list at mikebeauchamp.com  Thu May 27 18:50:43 2021
From: list at mikebeauchamp.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:50:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <983c62e1-0a1d-0529-082e-ad83f378b19c@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <983c62e1-0a1d-0529-082e-ad83f378b19c@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cebee807-cc95-455a-bf7d-75a8cd08b322@mikebeauchamp.com>


On 5/27/21 12:39 PM, Steve Lenham wrote:
> Sounds like the deal varies quite a bit depending on where you are. I'm 
> in the UK, and both Mouser and Digikey offer free transatlantic shipping 
> for orders above GBP33 (about US$50). They come in via UPS and usually 
> arrive in two working days. Apparently it is funded by overcharging 
> their Canadian customers ;-)
> 
> Historically I have found that Mouser tend to be slicker and more 
> competitive on price, but just recently I have been surprised when 
> Digikey came out cheaper on a few things. I always shop around, but 
> others may have more money than time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve L.
> Benden Sound Technology

Don't forget awesome sites like octopart to find good deals on things 
and quickly compare prices. pcbshopper is another one specific to pcb 
fabrication and assembly if you're also getting that done.

octopart has introduced me to a few non-digikey and non-mouser sites, my 
favourite right now is electro-sonic ( https://www.e-sonic.com/ ) they 
are in Canada which is a bonus, but their prices on a lot of things are 
also significantly better than digikey/mouser.

Mike



From jluciani at gmail.com  Thu May 27 18:57:25 2021
From: jluciani at gmail.com (John Luciani)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:57:25 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <CA+qhd=8Y4bp7q=192mkLf4w29WTvOo-RuQY8-yWF9qb_7a==MQ@mail.gmail.com>

I specify large holes, cutouts, outlines, etc in a fabrication drawing that
I include
as part of the CAD file package.

John L

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:21 AM <doug at synthark.com> wrote:

> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of
> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm
> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
> (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a
> better solution?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From brazil.v at gmail.com  Thu May 27 19:22:30 2021
From: brazil.v at gmail.com (Vinicius Brazil)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:22:30 -0300
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CA+qhd=8Y4bp7q=192mkLf4w29WTvOo-RuQY8-yWF9qb_7a==MQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CA+qhd=8Y4bp7q=192mkLf4w29WTvOo-RuQY8-yWF9qb_7a==MQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF7fC2Dfj22X1Ju+63TwbF_uK-DTnZM7zB5VXXtTM_uKN3Kxqw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Doug,
I also use DipTrace and I have no problem with large holes.
I usually use circular pads and edit the measurements so that they have a
very small border.

Vinicius Brazil

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Livre
de v?rus. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>.
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 2:00 PM John Luciani via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I specify large holes, cutouts, outlines, etc in a fabrication drawing
> that I include
> as part of the CAD file package.
>
> John L
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:21 AM <doug at synthark.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of
>> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
>> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm
>> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
>> (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a
>> better solution?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Doug Huseby
>> http://synthark.com
>> http://synthark.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From doug at synthark.com  Thu May 27 19:32:46 2021
From: doug at synthark.com (doug at synthark.com)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:32:46 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>

Thanks for the EasyEDA tip too.  I like that it's Linux compatible 
(Diptrace is not).  I'll see how easy it is to map my mind from Diptrace 
to EasyEDA (Diptrace to KiCAD was a miserable failure).

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 10:38, Mike Bryant wrote:
> If you're not using EasyEDA then make sure you fully check the Gerbers
> they return to you for sign off as you'll find small changes.   Using
> EasyEDA avoids this.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com]
> Sent: 27 May 2021 17:36
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: Synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board
> Cutout layer and built the holes that way.
> 
> BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.
> 
> ---
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> 
> 
> On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
>> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut
>> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with
>> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB
>> manufacturer for something like this though
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
>> doug at synthark.com
>> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
>> To: Synth-diy
>> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>> 
>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most
>> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which
>> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large
>> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after
>> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm
>> or provide a better solution?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Doug Huseby
>> http://synthark.com
>> http://synthark.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 27 20:30:41 2021
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 13:30:41 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <2b117a7e-1fca-4b4a-f88a-dfd95c43c061@ix.netcom.com>

I usually get my Mouser order the next day. I live about 40 miles from 
Mouser :)

Lately, they have been packaging some items like pots, IDC wire 
housings, etc in plastic trays with individual compartments. I'm finding 
these useful for sorting matched resistor/transistor sets.

As for plastic bags, I collect the ziplock ones in a box and donate it 
when it gets full.

- Oren

On 5/27/21 10:49 AM, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>
> Using Mouser, if you want a fast 1-2 days delivery time you need to 
> pay $20 for FedEx.
>
> If you want to pay no more than $8.00 for shipping then it's USPS 
> shipping with 1-2 WEEKS..
> Very annoying.
>
> I'm located in Canada.
>
> *Mouser*helps buyers with big orders often exceeding $100..
> No shipping cost and better prices.
> *Digikey* has higher prices but with very small orders and 1-2day 
> FedEx delivery at $8.00CAD
> I prefer that..
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De?: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de 
> mark verbos via Synth-diy
> Envoy??: 27 mai 2021 04:27
> ??: David G Dixon
> Cc?: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet?: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags
>
> Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac 
> vs. PC?..
>
> Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? 
> The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it 
> matters if nothing is in stock until July 2022)
>
> Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, 
> especially bags.
>
> Mark
>
> > On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hey SDIY Team,
>
> >
>
> > Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a 
> fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have 
> also pondered:
>
> >
>
> > What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>
> >
>
> > I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors 
> for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from 
> the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in 
> red Sharpie ink.? Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like 
> about 2000 empty bags.? Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags 
> of 10 inside a bigger bag.? Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger 
> bag.? Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger 
> bag with an identical label.
>
> >
>
> > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows 
> like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.? I've 
> already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.? I 
> hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the 
> trash.
>
> >
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Dave Dixon
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Synth-diy mailing list
>
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
>
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy 
> <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From tim.parkhurst at gmail.com  Thu May 27 20:54:49 2021
From: tim.parkhurst at gmail.com (Tim Parkhurst)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 11:54:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>

Has anybody tried using aluminum PCBs as panels? There's an informative
thread about it here:
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180347&sid=cb70d7a755740e33b2aaee77ec6068e5

And the manufacturer of choice seems to be PCBWay:
https://www.pcbway.com/

The options for colors and finishes are a little limited, but I'm thinking
a black solder mask with white silkscreen (or vice-versa) would cover the
vast majority of DIY and prototype needs. Thickness of 1.6 or 2.0mm should
be fine in most cases, especially for the average Euro module. Even slots
should be easy-peasy. The prices look amazing too.

Tim (aluminum or aluminium?) Servo
---
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein





On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:24 AM <doug at synthark.com> wrote:

> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of
> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm
> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
> (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a
> better solution?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 20:58:19 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 18:58:19 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa12f6e468c44cf1abdc3846a9919aee@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Or for those in the UK
https://www.meface.co.uk/analog-digital-modular-synthesizer-front-panels/


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tim Parkhurst via Synth-diy
Sent: 27 May 2021 19:55
To: doug at synthark.com
Cc: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

Has anybody tried using aluminum PCBs as panels? There's an informative thread about it here:
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180347&sid=cb70d7a755740e33b2aaee77ec6068e5

And the manufacturer of choice seems to be PCBWay:
https://www.pcbway.com/

The options for colors and finishes are a little limited, but I'm thinking a black solder mask with white silkscreen (or vice-versa) would cover the vast majority of DIY and prototype needs. Thickness of 1.6 or 2.0mm should be fine in most cases, especially for the average Euro module. Even slots should be easy-peasy. The prices look amazing too.

Tim (aluminum or aluminium?) Servo
---
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." - Albert Einstein




On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:24 AM <doug at synthark.com<mailto:doug at synthark.com>> wrote:
I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of
the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes
sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm
guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd
(since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a
better solution?

Thanks,
--
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 20:59:43 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 18:59:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <3C1FE539-61B0-4E3D-B4BF-F4222E69BCBD@gmail.com>
References: <SN6PR11MB347224D8E90B8FC21C34DFB5BB259@SN6PR11MB3472.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
 <1790072128.16820079.1621976567512.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>
 <20210525231320.172B.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <CAGn5V--2beZPCwrEufZHVFoXkCQE+nQe2Rv-CdMzg5q7SYfGew@mail.gmail.com>
 <C27CCB02-06B5-43A9-AEE2-90688C63B8AA@gmail.com>
 <33d03caca7b944e98284fa5d474335db@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <3C1FE539-61B0-4E3D-B4BF-F4222E69BCBD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <363f0e7fa57a4194842def8cc4375fc3@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

And we like the same film :-)

From: Terry Bowman [mailto:ka4hjh at gmail.com]
Sent: 27 May 2021 19:13
To: Mike Bryant
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation


On May 27, 2021, at 5:22 AM, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com<mailto:mbryant at futurehorizons.com>> wrote:

I remember seeing that when first transmitted now !   I thought Marty Feldman had done a version but couldn?t remember how.

I suddenly feel VERY old

Paradise.

I died before my old dad was born.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe: attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion... beams...in the dark in the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time...like tears in the rain." ? Roy Batty, Blade Runner

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 21:02:01 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 19:02:01 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Or just recreate it in EasyEDA.  It always seems that people who design in EasyEDA get good results and those who import from anything else, or miss out doing that altogether have problems and moan about JLCPCB.  A key thing is they don't claim to be compatible with a footprint standard that I can't remember the name/number of - they've gone their own way.

-----Original Message-----
From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com] 
Sent: 27 May 2021 18:33
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

Thanks for the EasyEDA tip too.  I like that it's Linux compatible (Diptrace is not).  I'll see how easy it is to map my mind from Diptrace to EasyEDA (Diptrace to KiCAD was a miserable failure).

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 10:38, Mike Bryant wrote:
> If you're not using EasyEDA then make sure you fully check the Gerbers
> they return to you for sign off as you'll find small changes.   Using
> EasyEDA avoids this.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com]
> Sent: 27 May 2021 17:36
> To: Mike Bryant
> Cc: Synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board 
> Cutout layer and built the holes that way.
> 
> BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.
> 
> ---
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> 
> 
> On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
>> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut 
>> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with 
>> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB 
>> manufacturer for something like this though
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
>> doug at synthark.com
>> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
>> To: Synth-diy
>> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>> 
>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most 
>> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which 
>> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large 
>> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after 
>> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm 
>> or provide a better solution?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Doug Huseby
>> http://synthark.com
>> http://synthark.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Thu May 27 21:14:07 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:14:07 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <2b117a7e-1fca-4b4a-f88a-dfd95c43c061@ix.netcom.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <2b117a7e-1fca-4b4a-f88a-dfd95c43c061@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR8kE2t8_669gV3EGm7oT=WPfC_0EbeNMeSKPGSwsDRo_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:34 PM Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> As for plastic bags, I collect the ziplock ones in a box and donate it
> when it gets full.
>
> - Oren
>

I'm curious who takes these as donations?
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Thu May 27 21:22:23 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:22:23 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR9d7yR-18Rb-Gturahitn-oPW0We6ya_sqs8VS2Uk2HvA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:58 PM Tim Parkhurst via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Has anybody tried using aluminum PCBs as panels? There's an informative
> thread about it here:
>
> https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180347&sid=cb70d7a755740e33b2aaee77ec6068e5
>
> And the manufacturer of choice seems to be PCBWay:
> https://www.pcbway.com/
>

I should probably try PCBWay before I give up entirely, but I tried this
with some aluminum PCB material at AllPCB and the results were not good.
Mounting holes were rough, but more importantly, slikscreen directly on the
raw aluminum panel did not work very well.   Not sure if I still have my
examples around or if I just chucked them.  Silver was what I was going
for, I suppose if I were to go with colored solder mask and silkscreen onto
that it would probably be OK.  At that point I'm not sure the extra cost
for aluminum is justified though; I've seen a lot of very nice FR4 panels.
My favorite was the one where the designer of an alternate panel for Rings
put the Lord of the Rings tree circled by the engraving of the one ring in
copper under the soldermask, so it's just raised a bit.  Looks really sharp.

Pete
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From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Thu May 27 21:27:16 2021
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:27:16 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR8kE2t8_669gV3EGm7oT=WPfC_0EbeNMeSKPGSwsDRo_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <2b117a7e-1fca-4b4a-f88a-dfd95c43c061@ix.netcom.com>
 <CACodTR8kE2t8_669gV3EGm7oT=WPfC_0EbeNMeSKPGSwsDRo_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb897345-6f3e-f6ae-71c0-07922d77ca68@ix.netcom.com>

There's a local thrift shop here that takes them.

On 5/27/21 2:14 PM, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:34 PM Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy 
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>
>     As for plastic bags, I collect the ziplock ones in a box and
>     donate it when it gets full.
>
>     - Oren
>
>
> I'm curious who takes these as donations?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Thu May 27 21:29:36 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 21:29:36 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <dddaaff7-1c90-ac18-2465-b504a3c6cd48@gmx.de>


EasyEDA ...

  has (last I tried a year ago) a lot of really stupid bugs /
"features", though. A lot worse than DipTrace.
While I can't remember all the things, one issues is with their parts
libraries that make it seem you'll be saving time.
But the number of parts that will generate totally wrong (rotation and
translation) pick & place data is not small.
Ah, and, you may not care about this particular feature, but it is
representative of the level of stupidity encountered in others as well:
- Differential pair routing: You can place one set of traces with that.
Once it is placed, there is no diff-pair entity in your project, that's
just a temporary creation mode. After that, you have regular traces that
happen to be a differential pair - unless you touch it anywhere... No
edit, route it completely anew then.
Oh, and the selection of copper pours seems to work only if you exactly
hit 1 pixel wide boundaries - that was annoying to no end.

It seemed nice initially, as it's so integrated with ther PCB
manufacturer - more or less. (Beware of LCSC parts it shows you to
select from, to readily drop in, without n eeding to make own footprints
etc - most of them are not available at their partner (?) JLCPCB, if you
want to use them)
At some level of pacepalm and frustration, I ditched that thing.
(I use DipTrace)


Am 27.05.2021 um 19:32 schrieb doug at synthark.com:
> Thanks for the EasyEDA tip too.  I like that it's Linux compatible
> (Diptrace is not).  I'll see how easy it is to map my mind from
> Diptrace to EasyEDA (Diptrace to KiCAD was a miserable failure).
>
> ---
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
>
>
> On 2021-05-27 10:38, Mike Bryant wrote:
>> If you're not using EasyEDA then make sure you fully check the Gerbers
>> they return to you for sign off as you'll find small changes. Using
>> EasyEDA avoids this.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com]
>> Sent: 27 May 2021 17:36
>> To: Mike Bryant
>> Cc: Synth-diy
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>>
>> Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board
>> Cutout layer and built the holes that way.
>>
>> BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.
>>
>> ---
>> Doug Huseby
>> http://synthark.com
>> http://synthark.org
>>
>>
>> On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
>>> Depends on who is making the PCB. JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut
>>> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with
>>> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB
>>> manufacturer for something like this though
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of
>>> doug at synthark.com
>>> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
>>> To: Synth-diy
>>> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>>>
>>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
>>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most
>>> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which
>>> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large
>>> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after
>>> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm
>>> or provide a better solution?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Doug Huseby
>>> http://synthark.com
>>> http://synthark.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>




From quincas at gmail.com  Thu May 27 21:29:57 2021
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:29:57 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <983c62e1-0a1d-0529-082e-ad83f378b19c@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <983c62e1-0a1d-0529-082e-ad83f378b19c@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <10E76860-163F-412B-A898-E4B51BF20DDE@gmail.com>

Can confirm, Mexico is better served by Mouser than Digikey. Free shipping for orders over 40usd and one day delivery. Customs prepaid

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 May 2021, at 11:41, Steve Lenham <steve at bendentech.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Sounds like the deal varies quite a bit depending on where you are. I'm in the UK, and both Mouser and Digikey offer free transatlantic shipping for orders above GBP33 (about US$50). They come in via UPS and usually arrive in two working days. Apparently it is funded by overcharging their Canadian customers ;-)
> 
> Historically I have found that Mouser tend to be slicker and more competitive on price, but just recently I have been surprised when Digikey came out cheaper on a few things. I always shop around, but others may have more money than time.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve L.
> Benden Sound Technology
> 
> 
>> On 27/05/2021 16:49, Jean-Pierre Desrochers wrote:
>> Using Mouser, if you want a fast 1-2 days delivery time you need to pay $20 for FedEx.
>> If you want to pay no more than $8.00 for shipping then it's USPS shipping with 1-2 WEEKS..
>> Very annoying.
>> I'm located in Canada.
>> *Mouser*helps buyers with big orders often exceeding $100..
>> No shipping cost and better prices.
>> *Digikey* has higher prices but with very small orders and 1-2day FedEx delivery at $8.00CAD
>> I prefer that..
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de mark verbos via Synth-diy
>> Envoy? : 27 mai 2021 04:27
>> ? : David G Dixon
>> Cc : synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> Objet : Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags
>> Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac vs. PC?..
>> Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters if nothing is in stock until July 2022)
>> Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, especially bags.
>> Mark
>>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey SDIY Team,
>> >
>> > Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>> >
>> > What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
>> >
>> > I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>> >
>> > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Dave Dixon
>> > _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Thu May 27 21:32:09 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:32:09 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EFDBEE05-92B1-40B4-94C9-2F47B0E8B47D@audiobanshee.com>

Naive question: If someone actually ordered a PCB in aluminum - not as a faceplate - would the copper traces deposited on aluminum actually work? Seems like the Electrical Test would fail with everything shorted out.

By the time you go to the trouble of designing a PCB with the intention of using it as a face plate in aluminum, it seems like you might as well just start with Front Panel Express (Germany and USA). They have the ability to put letting on the face plate via routing or silk screening. I've seen both, and the silk screen seems to work fine. I think that the person ordering it may have specified a clear coat to protect the silk screen.

Brian


On May 27, 2021, at 11:54, Tim Parkhurst via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> Has anybody tried using aluminum PCBs as panels? There's an informative thread about it here:
> https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180347&sid=cb70d7a755740e33b2aaee77ec6068e5
> 
> And the manufacturer of choice seems to be PCBWay:
> https://www.pcbway.com/
> 
> The options for colors and finishes are a little limited, but I'm thinking a black solder mask with white silkscreen (or vice-versa) would cover the vast majority of DIY and prototype needs. Thickness of 1.6 or 2.0mm should be fine in most cases, especially for the average Euro module. Even slots should be easy-peasy. The prices look amazing too. 
> 
> Tim (aluminum or aluminium?) Servo
> ---
> 
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:24 AM <doug at synthark.com> wrote:
>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).  
>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of 
>> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes 
>> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm 
>> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd 
>> (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a 
>> better solution?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -- 
>> Doug Huseby



From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Thu May 27 21:47:55 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 12:47:55 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
Message-ID: <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>

I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.

TLE2082
TLE2072

Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.

Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends upon what you're hoping to accomplish.

Brian


On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s the pearl and I am the swine.
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Thu May 27 21:53:35 2021
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 21:53:35 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>

Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility. 

http://www.florian-anwander.de 


> Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> 
> Hey SDIY Team,
>  
> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>  
> What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
>  
> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>  
> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>  
> Cheers,
> Dave Dixon
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Thu May 27 21:54:36 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:54:36 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <EFDBEE05-92B1-40B4-94C9-2F47B0E8B47D@audiobanshee.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <CACDGQT9ENrf+12ABjQeU+p+yzEbxq_EveXa0EyEeAXH=w6zB-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <EFDBEE05-92B1-40B4-94C9-2F47B0E8B47D@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR-g0w=eg8aa9Pbz3eVeeSiRYCgWNZn1nOq1YREK90X70A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 2:34 PM Brian Willoughby <brianw at audiobanshee.com>
wrote:

> Naive question: If someone actually ordered a PCB in aluminum - not as a
> faceplate - would the copper traces deposited on aluminum actually work?
> Seems like the Electrical Test would fail with everything shorted out.
>
> By the time you go to the trouble of designing a PCB with the intention of
> using it as a face plate in aluminum, it seems like you might as well just
> start with Front Panel Express (Germany and USA). They have the ability to
> put letting on the face plate via routing or silk screening. I've seen
> both, and the silk screen seems to work fine. I think that the person
> ordering it may have specified a clear coat to protect the silk screen.
>

There's a layer of insulating material between the copper and the
aluminum.  I cannot remember whether it's FR4 or something else.  The main
point of the aluminum substrate is to suck away heat, as I understand it.

I believe when I did my experiment, the aluminum PCB material was still far
cheaper than the FPE options available at the time.  However it may have
been before they were doing or widely known to be doing screening on their
panels, I understand that has brought their prices down significantly.
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 22:34:07 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 20:34:07 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <026a15bdc2a44f21aefb0bb35bae552c@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Luxury.  When we were young we had uA709s wired together with wet string




Oops sorry, wrong thread :-)


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Brian Willoughby
Sent: 27 May 2021 20:48
To: Benjamin Tremblay
Cc: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.

TLE2082
TLE2072

Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.

Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends upon what you're hoping to accomplish.

Brian


On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s the pearl and I am the swine.
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Thu May 27 22:41:52 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 16:41:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <026a15bdc2a44f21aefb0bb35bae552c@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <026a15bdc2a44f21aefb0bb35bae552c@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBSV8TfG_THCU2wchBHCGTOFrBAfXGmrtOFbreXSkAhxw@mail.gmail.com>

ua709s?  Our opamps back then were built from vacuum tubes.  If you
were lucky you didn't get zapped by the plate voltage.  At least they
doubled as room heaters.

:-)

MC

On 5/27/21, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> Luxury.  When we were young we had uA709s wired together with wet string
>
>
>
>
> Oops sorry, wrong thread :-)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Brian
> Willoughby
> Sent: 27 May 2021 20:48
> To: Benjamin Tremblay
> Cc: Synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I
> assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
>
> TLE2082
> TLE2072
>
> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
>
> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends
> upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not
>> even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s the
>> pearl and I am the swine.
>>
>> Benjamin Tremblay
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Thu May 27 22:43:08 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 20:43:08 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <dddaaff7-1c90-ac18-2465-b504a3c6cd48@gmx.de>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <dddaaff7-1c90-ac18-2465-b504a3c6cd48@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <d04af4dd1a0a44c8ae05589697af750d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

The rotation thing is usually with footprints imported from other tools, as EasyEDA freely admit they don't follow the same standard as other tools.  The footprints they entered are fine, but in any case they hand edit the PnP file to make sure everything comes back in the correct rotation.

As for differential pair routing, to do it properly you need a professional tool like Zuken or Mentor.  EasyEDA makes a hash of it but KiCad is even worse.  I've seen it put all the padding on the far end so for most of the pair they aren't anything like in antiphase.  I haven't tried DipTrace so can't comment on that.

The parts thing has been fixed - it now specifically says if it's available on the JLCPCB SMD machines or not, so in fact you tend to ignore the LCSC tab totally.

The main advantage of using EasyEDA, even if importing it from another tool, is you know the Gerbers being sent are in the format they like.  Sending KiCad Gerbers directly is a gamble - sometimes ok, sometimes not.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve via Synth-diy
Sent: 27 May 2021 20:30
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?


EasyEDA ...

  has (last I tried a year ago) a lot of really stupid bugs / "features", though. A lot worse than DipTrace.
While I can't remember all the things, one issues is with their parts libraries that make it seem you'll be saving time.
But the number of parts that will generate totally wrong (rotation and
translation) pick & place data is not small.
Ah, and, you may not care about this particular feature, but it is representative of the level of stupidity encountered in others as well:
- Differential pair routing: You can place one set of traces with that.
Once it is placed, there is no diff-pair entity in your project, that's just a temporary creation mode. After that, you have regular traces that happen to be a differential pair - unless you touch it anywhere... No edit, route it completely anew then.
Oh, and the selection of copper pours seems to work only if you exactly hit 1 pixel wide boundaries - that was annoying to no end.

It seemed nice initially, as it's so integrated with ther PCB manufacturer - more or less. (Beware of LCSC parts it shows you to select from, to readily drop in, without n eeding to make own footprints etc - most of them are not available at their partner (?) JLCPCB, if you want to use them) At some level of pacepalm and frustration, I ditched that thing.
(I use DipTrace)


Am 27.05.2021 um 19:32 schrieb doug at synthark.com:
> Thanks for the EasyEDA tip too.  I like that it's Linux compatible 
> (Diptrace is not).  I'll see how easy it is to map my mind from 
> Diptrace to EasyEDA (Diptrace to KiCAD was a miserable failure).
>
> ---
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
>
>
> On 2021-05-27 10:38, Mike Bryant wrote:
>> If you're not using EasyEDA then make sure you fully check the 
>> Gerbers they return to you for sign off as you'll find small changes. 
>> Using EasyEDA avoids this.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com]
>> Sent: 27 May 2021 17:36
>> To: Mike Bryant
>> Cc: Synth-diy
>> Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>>
>> Ah, thanks for the tip!  I was overthinking it.  I found the Board 
>> Cutout layer and built the holes that way.
>>
>> BTW, I'm also using JLCPCB.
>>
>> ---
>> Doug Huseby
>> http://synthark.com
>> http://synthark.org
>>
>>
>> On 2021-05-27 09:23, Mike Bryant wrote:
>>> Depends on who is making the PCB. JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut 
>>> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with 
>>> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB 
>>> manufacturer for something like this though
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf 
>>> Of doug at synthark.com
>>> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
>>> To: Synth-diy
>>> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>>>
>>> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
>>> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags 
>>> most of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), 
>>> which makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill 
>>> large holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB 
>>> after it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone 
>>> confirm or provide a better solution?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Doug Huseby
>>> http://synthark.com
>>> http://synthark.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Thu May 27 23:44:49 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 14:44:49 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>

In 12 years of designing modules, I have never used anything other than
TL072 and TL074.  No one has complained.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Brian
Willoughby
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:48 PM
To: Benjamin Tremblay
Cc: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I
assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.

TLE2082
TLE2072

Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.

Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends
upon what you're hoping to accomplish.

Brian


On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> So, it's just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not
even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It's the
pearl and I am the swine.
> 
> Benjamin Tremblay


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 00:31:39 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 00:31:39 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>

That's because they didn't know. Now they do. I dread your next few
exchanges about op amps used in your modules.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:49 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> In 12 years of designing modules, I have never used anything other than
> TL072 and TL074.  No one has complained.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Brian
> Willoughby
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:48 PM
> To: Benjamin Tremblay
> Cc: Synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I
> assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
>
> TLE2082
> TLE2072
>
> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
>
> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends
> upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> > So, it's just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not
> even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It's the
> pearl and I am the swine.
> >
> > Benjamin Tremblay
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 00:37:05 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 00:37:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:56 PM Florian Anwander
<fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>
> Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
> This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility.
>
> http://www.florian-anwander.de
>
>
> > Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> >
> > Hey SDIY Team,
> >
> > Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
> >
> > What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
> >
> > I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
> >
> > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave Dixon
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Fri May 28 01:16:28 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 16:16:28 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <d04af4dd1a0a44c8ae05589697af750d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <dddaaff7-1c90-ac18-2465-b504a3c6cd48@gmx.de>
 <d04af4dd1a0a44c8ae05589697af750d@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <266924B3-0904-4775-A758-44C2CF0E93B7@audiobanshee.com>

One thing that companies like Advanced Circuits / 4PCB do is offer an online Gerber check service. You can submit Gerbers from any tool to FreeDFM.com and get a detailed report of any issues. I think it might only show four problems, max, but I typically have zero problems. If you have more than four issues, then just fix the first four and iterate until everything is fine.

An advantage of having this online is that it doesn't matter whether you're on Windows, Mac, or Linux. Just upload the files and get an email report later.

Advanced Circuits is not often the cheapest, but I've received very high quality boards from them. They also do assembly, now, but I've not used their service for that.


On May 27, 2021, at 13:43, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> The main advantage of using EasyEDA, even if importing it from another tool, is you know the Gerbers being sent are in the format they like.  Sending KiCad Gerbers directly is a gamble - sometimes ok, sometimes not.




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Fri May 28 03:28:15 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2021 18:28:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>

Oh, they knew.  The fact is, for what I do, TL07X is always good enough.
Sometimes I get fancy and use TL07XBCN for the lower voltage offset, but
that's almost never required, and typically the TL07XCN is good enough.
About the only place I'd be tempted to use something different is at the CV
summer of a VCO, but again, TL07X always seems to be good enough, and my
oscillators have a reputation for good accuracy and tracking.

Actually, I lied: I use LF444 for the sample and hold circuits in my analog
shift register module, because it has much lower input current.


-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 3:32 PM
To: David G Dixon
Cc: Brian Willoughby; Benjamin Tremblay; Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

That's because they didn't know. Now they do. I dread your next few
exchanges about op amps used in your modules.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 11:49 PM David G Dixon via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> In 12 years of designing modules, I have never used anything other 
> than
> TL072 and TL074.  No one has complained.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> Brian Willoughby
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 12:48 PM
> To: Benjamin Tremblay
> Cc: Synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
>
> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the 
> crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et
cetera.
>
> TLE2082
> TLE2072
>
> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
>
> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always 
> depends upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy 
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> > So, it's just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who 
> > does not
> even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It's 
> the pearl and I am the swine.
> >
> > Benjamin Tremblay
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 03:43:03 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 03:43:03 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--3jaLjf2qBxX6pfMFxJL+6-KgXaqe+np9BMeBtvoK0pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:06 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> Or just recreate it in EasyEDA.  It always seems that people who design in EasyEDA get good results and those who import from anything else, or miss out doing that altogether have problems and moan about JLCPCB.  A key thing is they don't claim to be compatible with a footprint standard that I can't remember the name/number of - they've gone their own way.

Why does EasyEDA have such an advantage?

Thanks



From usenet at teply.info  Fri May 28 06:48:43 2021
From: usenet at teply.info (usenet at teply.info)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 06:48:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29c3fa68-a3fc-2434-621e-59bae495ca1e@teply.info>

Depends a bit on what you're trying to find. There are a few smaller 
shops around like segor elektronik in Berlin, where you actually can 
walk in and have a chat with the guys, and that's actually a good thing 
to do if you're not yet fully settled on something as those guys are not 
sales clerks but really electronics geeks which happen to make a living 
out of it. Then there's also a big Competitor to digikey and mouser on a 
national scale, Conrad electronics. They have a few big stores, but 
nowadays do most of their business online. What aspired to be in the 
same league as Conrad is reichelt elektronik and V?lkner, with their 
difference to Conrad being a somewhat smaller scale and somewhat 
different customer base. Conrad's main focus is business customers 
nowadays with the shops being more of a relic from the past, reichelt 
serves more the DIYer, so SMT parts are rather rare, and there is rumors 
that you might actually buy bootleg parts or factory rejects. And 
V?lkner used to be a well-stocked small electronics shop like segor or 
B?rklin, which I find hard to categorize now, more like a dollar shop 
for electronics.

Then there's of course the other big guys like farnell and RS 
components, but they don't seem to cater to end users.

HTH,

The other Florian

On 28.05.21 00:37, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
> other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?
>
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:56 PM Florian Anwander
> <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>> Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
>> This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility.
>>
>> http://www.florian-anwander.de
>>
>>
>>> Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
>>>
>>> Hey SDIY Team,
>>>
>>> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>>>
>>> What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
>>>
>>> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>>>
>>> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave Dixon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From vladoman at gmail.com  Fri May 28 07:47:05 2021
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 07:47:05 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a50d263-08cb-8e41-3f49-b59f7dd17b18@gmail.com>

if I can reach ?50, I go to Mouser or Digikey, stuff usually takes 2
work days to arrive here :)

then there are Reichelt and tme.eu, between the two of them you can get
most of the standard parts that you would also get from Mouser or DK.

Conrad I avoid like the plague, they are called pharmacy for a reason.
well, expect when then gifted me free shipping for a year for no obvious
reason, then it was nice to have a 50 cent part overnight :)

V?lkner belongs to Conrad now, so they mostly have what Conrad has.

if you are into bag re-use Reichelt is your thing, their bags have small
and very easy to remove stickers. downside is the stickers will fade
and/or fall off after a very short time, so if you plan to keep the
parts in the bag, then sharpie them as soon as they arrives...



On 28.05.21 00:37, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
> other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?
> 
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:56 PM Florian Anwander
> <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>>
>> Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
>> This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility.
>>
>> http://www.florian-anwander.de
>>
>>
>>> Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
>>>
>>> Hey SDIY Team,
>>>
>>> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>>>
>>> What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
>>>
>>> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>>>
>>> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave Dixon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 



From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 28 10:16:25 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 10:16:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
Message-ID: <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>

Over all those years I haven't paid a cent for shipping from Mouser. 
It's easy to cross the 40EUR free-shipping boundary. They usually 
shipped in 2 days. Like order from Friday evening was delivered Monday 
morning. Faster than any domestic store. But now, since about half a 
year it was usually at least a week to 3 weeks.

At some point DigiKey introduced free shiping to my country, but the 
habit keeps me at Mouser. And those anoying 3 questions DigiKeys asking 
if I'm going to use the parts to build nuclear missile to destroy 
America. Basicaly the meaning of those 3 questions are "are you an idiot?".

The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - 
selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it 
down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the 
price at any quantity other than 1.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o?17:49, Jean-Pierre Desrochers pisze:
> Using Mouser, if you want a fast 1-2 days delivery time you need to pay 
> $20 for FedEx.
> 
> If you want to pay no more than $8.00 for shipping then it's USPS 
> shipping with 1-2 WEEKS..
> Very annoying.
> 
> I'm located in Canada.
> 
> *Mouser*helps buyers with big orders often exceeding $100..
> No shipping cost and better prices.
> *Digikey* has higher prices but with very small orders and 1-2day FedEx 
> delivery at $8.00CAD
> I prefer that..
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De?: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] De la part de 
> mark verbos via Synth-diy
> Envoy??: 27 mai 2021 04:27
> ??: David G Dixon
> Cc?: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Objet?: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags
> 
> Now is as good a time as any to ignite the Synth-Diy equivalent of Mac 
> vs. PC?..
> 
> Why would anyone choose DigiKey over Mouser? Is this a Canadian thing? 
> The search engine sucks and the prices are higher! ( not that it matters 
> if nothing is in stock until July 2022)
> 
> Mouser also gives its customers a ludicrous amount of packaging, 
> especially bags.
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:01 AM, David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Hey SDIY Team,
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python riffing, but I've got a 
> fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have 
> also pondered:
> 
>  >
> 
>  > What do you do with all of your Digikey bags?
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors 
> for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the 
> bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red 
> Sharpie ink.? Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 
> empty bags.? Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a 
> bigger bag.? Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.? Quite a few 
> were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical 
> label.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows 
> like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.? I've 
> already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.? I 
> hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> 
>  >
> 
>  > Cheers,
> 
>  > Dave Dixon
> 
>  > _______________________________________________
> 
>  > Synth-diy mailing list
> 
>  > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> 
>  > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
>  > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Synth-diy mailing list
> 
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> 
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> 
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 
> <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 28 10:26:52 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 10:26:52 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>

AFAIK JLCPSB does not use laser cutting, not even laser drilling, as 
they do not offer HDI boards where laser cut vias are common. All boards 
are milled with router bits.

Every PCB manufactures has detailed description of their capabilities 
and requirements, that nobody reads. Usually all manufacturers drill up 
to 6mm diameter, and anything above is milled. You can draw anything in 
Keepout layer as long it is doable with 2mm mill bit (no sharp inside 
corners) and they will cut it without bothering you asking what your 
intention was. And without increase in price.
I used to add mechanical layer to show them how nice I am and want to 
minimize their precious engineering time, but turns out they rely on 
keepout layer mostly to do all the routing.

There is free tool out there - gerbv.exe, search the net. I check all my 
designs with it before sending. And whatever it shows, is always the 
same in real thing from JLCPCB. Even if online JLCPCB Gerber viewer gets 
totally confused and shows rubbish.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o?17:23, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB manufacturer for something like this though
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a better solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Fri May 28 10:46:59 2021
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 09:46:59 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

For PCB profile routing (milling) is it normal to:

1. Draw the Gerber line where you want the PCB edge to end up?  (and they 
make allowances for the cutting tool diameter.)

_or_

2. Draw the Gerber line where you want the centre line of the cutting tool 
to follow, knowing in advance what the cutting tool diameter is, so that you 
end up getting the right size cut-out?

I've encountered both approach, and on occasion been caught out!  Just 
wondered if there was a consensus on the way it is normally handled?

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

-Richie,




-----Original Message----- 
From: Roman Sowa
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:26 AM
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

AFAIK JLCPSB does not use laser cutting, not even laser drilling, as
they do not offer HDI boards where laser cut vias are common. All boards
are milled with router bits.

Every PCB manufactures has detailed description of their capabilities
and requirements, that nobody reads. Usually all manufacturers drill up
to 6mm diameter, and anything above is milled. You can draw anything in
Keepout layer as long it is doable with 2mm mill bit (no sharp inside
corners) and they will cut it without bothering you asking what your
intention was. And without increase in price.
I used to add mechanical layer to show them how nice I am and want to
minimize their precious engineering time, but turns out they rely on
keepout layer mostly to do all the routing.

There is free tool out there - gerbv.exe, search the net. I check all my
designs with it before sending. And whatever it shows, is always the
same in real thing from JLCPCB. Even if online JLCPCB Gerber viewer gets
totally confused and shows rubbish.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o 17:23, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut any 
> shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with crosshairs in my 
> last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB manufacturer for something 
> like this though
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of 
> the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes 
> sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm 
> guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd (since 
> the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a better 
> solution?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 11:10:26 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 09:10:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <9468c1f431d34b83bb27738fa47c6155@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Hi Roman

JLCPCB introduced a laser PCB cutter in 2019 as discussed in their forum and on some blogs.  But they still use mechanical milling as well and indeed their capabilities page states that this is the only offering.  But it's been quite clear on quite a few of my recent designs that the cutouts have been lasered as there are no circular corners - just two straight edges meeting sharply.   But there is no way of specifying you must have laser cutting.  Vias are always drilled as far as I can work out.

Agree the JLCPCB Gerber viewer is rubbish.  I believe it was bought in and uses the IPC-7531 footprint standard, whereas EasyEDA and JLCPCB use their own standard which is why it shows everything in random rotations.  It's even worse if you put components on the back of the board.  But as you say they all come back perfect every time.

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Roman Sowa
Sent: 28 May 2021 09:27
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

AFAIK JLCPSB does not use laser cutting, not even laser drilling, as they do not offer HDI boards where laser cut vias are common. All boards are milled with router bits.

Every PCB manufactures has detailed description of their capabilities and requirements, that nobody reads. Usually all manufacturers drill up to 6mm diameter, and anything above is milled. You can draw anything in Keepout layer as long it is doable with 2mm mill bit (no sharp inside
corners) and they will cut it without bothering you asking what your intention was. And without increase in price.
I used to add mechanical layer to show them how nice I am and want to minimize their precious engineering time, but turns out they rely on keepout layer mostly to do all the routing.

There is free tool out there - gerbv.exe, search the net. I check all my designs with it before sending. And whatever it shows, is always the same in real thing from JLCPCB. Even if online JLCPCB Gerber viewer gets totally confused and shows rubbish.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o?17:23, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut 
> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with 
> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB 
> manufacturer for something like this though
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
> 
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm or provide a better solution?
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
_______________________________________________
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 11:16:23 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 09:16:23 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
 <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <16d84d6822664293b278d111b8a4be89@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Depends on your vendor.  For JLCPCB it seems to be the outer edge, not the centre line, as their DRC allows tracks within 0.2mm of the edge (not that I ever put them that close), and they route the outline with a 0.65mm mill if not done with laser.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Richie Burnett
Sent: 28 May 2021 09:47
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

For PCB profile routing (milling) is it normal to:

1. Draw the Gerber line where you want the PCB edge to end up?  (and they make allowances for the cutting tool diameter.)

_or_

2. Draw the Gerber line where you want the centre line of the cutting tool to follow, knowing in advance what the cutting tool diameter is, so that you end up getting the right size cut-out?

I've encountered both approach, and on occasion been caught out!  Just wondered if there was a consensus on the way it is normally handled?

I can see advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

-Richie,




-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Sowa
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 9:26 AM
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

AFAIK JLCPSB does not use laser cutting, not even laser drilling, as they do not offer HDI boards where laser cut vias are common. All boards are milled with router bits.

Every PCB manufactures has detailed description of their capabilities and requirements, that nobody reads. Usually all manufacturers drill up to 6mm diameter, and anything above is milled. You can draw anything in Keepout layer as long it is doable with 2mm mill bit (no sharp inside
corners) and they will cut it without bothering you asking what your intention was. And without increase in price.
I used to add mechanical layer to show them how nice I am and want to minimize their precious engineering time, but turns out they rely on keepout layer mostly to do all the routing.

There is free tool out there - gerbv.exe, search the net. I check all my designs with it before sending. And whatever it shows, is always the same in real thing from JLCPCB. Even if online JLCPCB Gerber viewer gets totally confused and shows rubbish.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-27 o 17:23, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Depends on who is making the PCB.  JLCPCB use a laser cutter to cut 
> any shape in the PCB.  I had some large fan sized holes with 
> crosshairs in my last order.  Best to use the tool of the PCB 
> manufacturer for something like this though
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of 
> doug at synthark.com
> Sent: 27 May 2021 16:05
> To: Synth-diy
> Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
>
> I'm building a jack faceplate, which requires large holes (MIDI, USB).
> While I can create the holes in my PCB tool (DipTrace), it flags most 
> of the holes as DRC violations (too large to drill, > 0.2"), which 
> makes sense, since PCB fabs probably aren't setup to drill large 
> holes.  I'm guessing my best solution would be to CNC the PCB after 
> it's fab'd (since the USB hole is not circular).  Can anyone confirm 
> or provide a better solution?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Doug Huseby
> http://synthark.com
> http://synthark.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org 


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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri May 28 11:36:57 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 10:36:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>

David G Dixon wrote:
> In 12 years of designing modules, I have never used anything other than
> TL072 and TL074.  No one has complained.

For what they cost they're pretty good opamps, and suitable for many
applications.  Sure, they're not the lowest noise, or distortion, or
offset, or drift, or power consumption, but they are incredibly cheap
(but not too cheap!).  For general use they're hard to beat.

Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks,
where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532
or 5534 for the sum amps.
As an example, https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/wz14-4-2/

Brian Willoughby wrote:
> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the
> crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
>
> TLE2082
> TLE2072

Over-priced for the noise and distortion.  Unless you're an "072"
fetishist with deep pockets there are much better opamps for much less
money.  The mutts nuts right now for audio appears to be the OPA1656,
with the OPA1678 trying to take over the TL072's position.

One opamp I'm having a lot of fun with right now is the TLV9102 in a
battery-powered application.  It's cousin the TLV9152 is astonishing!

Neil


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 12:14:32 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 10:14:32 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

And 5532s for the output amps.  TL072s aren't so good there.

I've been asked why we don't just use 5532s everywhere.  Simple - the mixer would be so hot you'd need several extra fans which rather messes up the signal to noise ratio for the guy doing the mixing.  
And in fact for the mic amp the distortion is slightly worse than with a TL072 as it loads the input pair more.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Neil Johnson via Synth-diy
Sent: 28 May 2021 10:37
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

For what they cost they're pretty good opamps, and suitable for many applications.  Sure, they're not the lowest noise, or distortion, or offset, or drift, or power consumption, but they are incredibly cheap (but not too cheap!).  For general use they're hard to beat.

Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks, where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532 or 5534 for the sum amps.



From steve at bendentech.co.uk  Fri May 28 12:44:37 2021
From: steve at bendentech.co.uk (Steve Lenham)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 11:44:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <395f0309-a05c-2185-f4a8-6fc75bc300d3@bendentech.co.uk>

On 28/05/2021 10:36, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:

> Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks,
> where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532
> or 5534 for the sum amps.
> As an example, https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/wz14-4-2/

Bearing in mind the rate of change in the electronics industry, it's 
worth acknowledging that this has been the case for 30 YEARS or more! I 
was working on broadcast mixers back in the early '90s and the opamp 
lineup was exactly the same. Those devices just tick most if not all the 
boxes for a wide range of audio applications, and the multiple sources 
and ubiquity they have built up helps prolong the situation.

Yes, there are modern alternatives but the improvements are usually 
marginal and often offset by cost or single-sourcing. The NE5532 shows 
its age a bit with its power consumption and tendency to go unstable 
without some decoupling caps nearby to keep it company and I admit I 
tend to use the MC33178 in that position now, but the TL07x is still a 
go-to device.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound technology


From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Fri May 28 13:01:37 2021
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 12:01:37 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <395f0309-a05c-2185-f4a8-6fc75bc300d3@bendentech.co.uk>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <395f0309-a05c-2185-f4a8-6fc75bc300d3@bendentech.co.uk>
Message-ID: <43F0A5065351456CB0DE3589608B7C8A@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

I was just about to post the same thing!  I was amazed to see that this is 
still the case after seeing those exact chips used in mixers 30 years ago!

-Richie,



-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Lenham
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 11:44 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

On 28/05/2021 10:36, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:

> Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks,
> where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532
> or 5534 for the sum amps.
> As an example, https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/wz14-4-2/

Bearing in mind the rate of change in the electronics industry, it's
worth acknowledging that this has been the case for 30 YEARS or more! I
was working on broadcast mixers back in the early '90s and the opamp
lineup was exactly the same. Those devices just tick most if not all the
boxes for a wide range of audio applications, and the multiple sources
and ubiquity they have built up helps prolong the situation.

Yes, there are modern alternatives but the improvements are usually
marginal and often offset by cost or single-sourcing. The NE5532 shows
its age a bit with its power consumption and tendency to go unstable
without some decoupling caps nearby to keep it company and I admit I
tend to use the MC33178 in that position now, but the TL07x is still a
go-to device.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound technology
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
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-- 
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From markverbos at gmail.com  Fri May 28 14:43:51 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 14:43:51 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>

So weird Brian. 

I was talking about these yesterday afternoon. I have never heard them mentioned before now. TLE2062 is used a bunch in the OB-MX, which of course was designed for Gibson/Oberheim by Don Buchla using many parts they already had(or so the story goes). Since Don never used anything besides TL082 and TL062 starting in about 1975 (OK an LM301 here and there), I was trying to figure out why he used those here (They are 10x the price after all). It could be that this was not on his dime, so he used what he really wanted to. It could be that they already had them. It could be that he always wanted to use them, and it was the first chance he got (it was 1994). Anyway, it seems that with them he got the low power benefit of the TL062 and the higher slew rate of the TL082 all in one overpriced package. There are 20 per voice card. With 6 cards in there, the current would start to add up?

Mark







> On May 27, 2021, at 9:47 PM, Brian Willoughby <brianw at audiobanshee.com> wrote:
> 
> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
> 
> TLE2082
> TLE2072
> 
> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
> 
> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s the pearl and I am the swine.
>> 
>> Benjamin Tremblay
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From markverbos at gmail.com  Fri May 28 14:45:15 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 14:45:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>

I?m in Germany and I order from Mouser pretty much every week. They crank up the prices when you tell them you are outside the US, but they cover the import duties and the shipping is free. I get most packages in 2 days. 


Mark





> On May 28, 2021, at 12:37 AM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
> other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?
> 
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:56 PM Florian Anwander
> <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
>> 
>> Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
>> This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility.
>> 
>> http://www.florian-anwander.de
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
>>> 
>>> Hey SDIY Team,
>>> 
>>> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
>>> 
>>> What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
>>> 
>>> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
>>> 
>>> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave Dixon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 28 15:00:15 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 15:00:15 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <9468c1f431d34b83bb27738fa47c6155@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
 <9468c1f431d34b83bb27738fa47c6155@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <bf2e5993-7548-70e3-8009-57ed64fb61b7@go2.pl>

Good to know, I had no idea.
So next time when I'll design tight, maze, ridiculous cutouts in my PCB, 
they will be forced to use laser cut. Gotta try it...

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-28 o?11:10, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Hi Roman
> 
> JLCPCB introduced a laser PCB cutter in 2019 as discussed in their forum and on some blogs.  But they still use mechanical milling as well and indeed their capabilities page states that this is the only offering.  But it's been quite clear on quite a few of my recent designs that the cutouts have been lasered as there are no circular corners - just two straight edges meeting sharply.   But there is no way of specifying you must have laser cutting.  Vias are always drilled as far as I can work out.
> 


From modular at go2.pl  Fri May 28 15:04:50 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 15:04:50 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>

I enjoy entire family of TLV9xxx, several speed and power variants, good 
specs and what's most welcome - the dual version comes in 2mm WSON 
package, while many other dual opamps come in huge an bulky 3mm DFN :)

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-28 o?11:36, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy pisze:
> 
> One opamp I'm having a lot of fun with right now is the TLV9102 in a
> battery-powered application.  It's cousin the TLV9152 is astonishing!
> 
> Neil
> _______________________________________________


From doug at synthark.com  Fri May 28 15:55:08 2021
From: doug at synthark.com (doug at synthark.com)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 07:55:08 -0600
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--3jaLjf2qBxX6pfMFxJL+6-KgXaqe+np9BMeBtvoK0pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V--3jaLjf2qBxX6pfMFxJL+6-KgXaqe+np9BMeBtvoK0pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a44c207b76cc424a1fc16a9a7a4ce23@synthark.com>

I'm sure Mike can answer this better than I can, but I'm assuming 
EasyEDA accounts for any manufacturing quirks JLCPCB has, since it's 
their tool.  That said, I've never had an issue uploading Gerber from 
Diptrace, along with CSV BOM and PnP files for PCB fab and assembly 
(although I do edit the BOM and PnP files a bit to match their 
formatting examples and part numbers).

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 19:43, cheater cheater wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:06 PM Mike Bryant 
> <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Or just recreate it in EasyEDA.  It always seems that people who 
>> design in EasyEDA get good results and those who import from anything 
>> else, or miss out doing that altogether have problems and moan about 
>> JLCPCB.  A key thing is they don't claim to be compatible with a 
>> footprint standard that I can't remember the name/number of - they've 
>> gone their own way.
> 
> Why does EasyEDA have such an advantage?
> 
> Thanks


From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Fri May 28 16:43:15 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 07:43:15 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

I've use Seeed for a few orders of 25-ers (Q25). The first batch had the 
wrong SMD resistors all over the place, but they took them back and 
fixed them. I've order since then with no problems.

I noticed DigiKey offers "DKRed" now, but know nothing about it. It's 
just PCB though, no PCBA.

Either way, with no microcontrollers available anywhere that I can find, 
things will be slowing down for digital folks.

GB


On 5/24/2021 5:56 AM, john slee via Synth-diy wrote:

> I'm curious about trying low-volume outsourced assembly though (eg. 
> Seeed's "Fusion" service) just for the experience of trying it. I enjoy 
> the schematic capture and board layout process in Eagle ? especially 
> since I added automatic generation of front panel PCBs to my workflow! ? 
> but frankly I don't enjoy the assembly process that much anymore
> 
> John


From markverbos at gmail.com  Fri May 28 17:02:24 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:02:24 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>

I just spent 2 days on the mouser site looking for parts that aren?t backordered until summer ?22. I ordered every piece in stock of some analog ICs and about 25 different CMOS chips. Also, the 0603 resistor stock didn?t look great. I was buying SO package SMT, so maybe you are using through hole and it?s better. Dreading what life looks like in 3 months?.

In case that makes you feel any better. (not just micro guys)



Mark



> On May 28, 2021, at 4:43 PM, MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, with no microcontrollers available anywhere that I can find, things will be slowing down for digital folks.
> 




From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Fri May 28 18:29:16 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 12:29:16 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>

The reason why the TLE2062 was used in the OBMx instead of the Buchla
preferred TL07x/06x is before Don was brought on board, Gibson CEO
Henry J stockpiled parts to build production OBMx units before a
working prototype was even completed.  You NEVER do that.  The
pre-Buchla prototype was never satisfactory, Gibson was paying
expensive warehouse costs for these parts that couldn't be used, and
the value of these components were dropping like a rock.  So when
Buchla was brought in, it was under the condition that the purchased
components had to be used wherever possible.

MC

On 5/28/21, mark verbos via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> So weird Brian.
>
> I was talking about these yesterday afternoon. I have never heard them
> mentioned before now. TLE2062 is used a bunch in the OB-MX, which of course
> was designed for Gibson/Oberheim by Don Buchla using many parts they already
> had(or so the story goes). Since Don never used anything besides TL082 and
> TL062 starting in about 1975 (OK an LM301 here and there), I was trying to
> figure out why he used those here (They are 10x the price after all). It
> could be that this was not on his dime, so he used what he really wanted to.
> It could be that they already had them. It could be that he always wanted to
> use them, and it was the first chance he got (it was 1994). Anyway, it seems
> that with them he got the low power benefit of the TL062 and the higher slew
> rate of the TL082 all in one overpriced package. There are 20 per voice
> card. With 6 cards in there, the current would start to add up?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:47 PM, Brian Willoughby <brianw at audiobanshee.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I
>> assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
>>
>> TLE2082
>> TLE2072
>>
>> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
>>
>> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends
>> upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not
>>> even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s
>>> the pearl and I am the swine.
>>>
>>> Benjamin Tremblay
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From shedsynth at gmail.com  Fri May 28 18:57:33 2021
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:57:33 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
Message-ID: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>

I have an Arduino-based module, with a GATE input protected by 1K input
resistor then clamping diodes to 0V & +5V.

https://shedsynth.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/adsr-a-schematic-gate-to-d2.pn
g

I find that with power off to that module any GATE or CV to the input can
pull up the module's +5V through the diode and even power the whole case's
+5V rail.

The clue was seeing the case's +5V LED flashing in time with the GATE input.

 

And I think that if the input is more than +5V, the un-powered voltage
regulator will not be able to regulate so digital components (and perhaps
the voltage regulator itself) might be damaged.

Have I understood this correctly?

 

I'm wondering whether to put a 5.1V zener across the module's 0V and +5V to
catch any over-voltage.

Have I understood THAT correctly?

 

Thanks in advance,

Al

 

SHEDSYNTH <https://shedsynth.wordpress.com/>  - home-knitted eurorack

 

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 19:33:44 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:33:44 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Roman Sowa
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:05
To: Neil Johnson; Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I enjoy entire family of TLV9xxx, several speed and power variants, good specs and what's most welcome - the dual version comes in 2mm WSON package, while many other dual opamps come in huge an bulky 3mm DFN :)

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-28 o?11:36, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy pisze:
> 
> One opamp I'm having a lot of fun with right now is the TLV9102 in a 
> battery-powered application.  It's cousin the TLV9152 is astonishing!
> 
> Neil
> _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri May 28 20:22:17 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 20:22:17 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>

Mike Bryant:
> Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.

 From my observations, it seems to just shuffle the timing a bit, so you
might get the missing ones tomorrow :D  That happened only sometimes
(that I'm aware of)





From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri May 28 20:26:53 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 20:26:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed55985c-5e4c-ce3a-a98b-4710d97c88a9@gmx.de>

Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy:
> The reason why the TLE2062 was used in the OBMx instead of the Buchla
> preferred TL07x/06x is before Don was brought on board, Gibson CEO
> Henry J stockpiled parts to build production OBMx units before a
> working prototype was even completed.  You NEVER do that.  The
> pre-Buchla prototype was never satisfactory, Gibson was paying
> expensive warehouse costs for these parts that couldn't be used, and
> the value of these components were dropping like a rock.  So when
> Buchla was brought in, it was under the condition that the purchased
> components had to be used wherever possible.

Henry J, no longer CEO, btw, ... heheh... a weird guy.
Not the only questionable decision he's ever made :D (In the mid 2010's:
thicker Les Paul necks, and no choice anymore to *not* have the Robo
Tuning on high <strike>end</strike> price guitar models...)

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From d2ba at xtra.co.nz  Fri May 28 20:48:19 2021
From: d2ba at xtra.co.nz (David Bulog)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 06:48:19 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>

HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?

" There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."


cheers Dave B



> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 20:55:28 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 18:55:28 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] FW:  rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <231cef296e234445a11bec19dfad4b56@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>


I think everyone is being affected.  I have two products prototyped and on hold because I can't get the parts to even make a pilot run of 20 units each.  So no chance on thousands.  I suspect even Apple will see problems with the next iPhone.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of David Bulog via Synth-diy
Sent: 28 May 2021 19:48
To: Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage

HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?

" There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."


cheers Dave B



> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 21:00:52 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 19:00:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <43F0A5065351456CB0DE3589608B7C8A@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <395f0309-a05c-2185-f4a8-6fc75bc300d3@bendentech.co.uk>
 <43F0A5065351456CB0DE3589608B7C8A@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <015a88e15dda45ea9bab454441f66b49@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

The thing is we almost reached the theoretical noise floors in the early 90s, and have had more than adequate distortion figures since the 80s, so there's really nowhere much else to go in analogue audio mixer design.  Digital mixers added a bit of fun getting the A-D conversion done but that's now near perfect as well so really mixer design is now all about lowering cost or improving the human interface, preferably both.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Richie Burnett
Sent: 28 May 2021 12:02
To: steve at bendentech.co.uk; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

I was just about to post the same thing!  I was amazed to see that this is still the case after seeing those exact chips used in mixers 30 years ago!

-Richie,



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Lenham
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 11:44 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

On 28/05/2021 10:36, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:

> Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks, 
> where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532 
> or 5534 for the sum amps.
> As an example, https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/wz14-4-2/

Bearing in mind the rate of change in the electronics industry, it's worth acknowledging that this has been the case for 30 YEARS or more! I was working on broadcast mixers back in the early '90s and the opamp lineup was exactly the same. Those devices just tick most if not all the boxes for a wide range of audio applications, and the multiple sources and ubiquity they have built up helps prolong the situation.

Yes, there are modern alternatives but the improvements are usually marginal and often offset by cost or single-sourcing. The NE5532 shows its age a bit with its power consumption and tendency to go unstable without some decoupling caps nearby to keep it company and I admit I tend to use the MC33178 in that position now, but the TL07x is still a go-to device.

Cheers,

Steve L.
Benden Sound technology
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--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 21:07:36 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 19:07:36 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <4a44c207b76cc424a1fc16a9a7a4ce23@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V--3jaLjf2qBxX6pfMFxJL+6-KgXaqe+np9BMeBtvoK0pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a44c207b76cc424a1fc16a9a7a4ce23@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <4ca92dcbf8ea445988433b7952d9abf7@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Yes it does seem to handle all the manufacturing quirks.   For analogue PCBs I find it easiest to just design in EasyEDA, whilst for digital ones I use Zuken but then import into EasyEDA for a final check and to send it off to them.  

As a test I imported the open-source Raspberry Pi CM4 IO card into EasyEDA from KiCad and it had quite a few errors that KiCad apparently wasn't throwing up.

-----Original Message-----
From: doug at synthark.com [mailto:doug at synthark.com] 
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:55
To: cheater cheater
Cc: Mike Bryant; Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

I'm sure Mike can answer this better than I can, but I'm assuming EasyEDA accounts for any manufacturing quirks JLCPCB has, since it's their tool.  That said, I've never had an issue uploading Gerber from Diptrace, along with CSV BOM and PnP files for PCB fab and assembly (although I do edit the BOM and PnP files a bit to match their formatting examples and part numbers).

---
Doug Huseby
http://synthark.com
http://synthark.org


On 2021-05-27 19:43, cheater cheater wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:06 PM Mike Bryant 
> <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Or just recreate it in EasyEDA.  It always seems that people who 
>> design in EasyEDA get good results and those who import from anything 
>> else, or miss out doing that altogether have problems and moan about 
>> JLCPCB.  A key thing is they don't claim to be compatible with a 
>> footprint standard that I can't remember the name/number of - they've 
>> gone their own way.
> 
> Why does EasyEDA have such an advantage?
> 
> Thanks




From benjamin_gebhardt at yahoo.com  Fri May 28 21:28:43 2021
From: benjamin_gebhardt at yahoo.com (Ben Gebhardt)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 15:28:43 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
References: <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <3D69C976-4988-4247-882E-EEB4C633D3AA@yahoo.com>

It?s getting bad out there. A few days ago a client asked me to sub a tssop opa1679 for a circuit I designed for him that?s going into production.


> On May 28, 2021, at 2:56 PM, David Bulog via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
> How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
> 
> " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
> 
> 
> cheers Dave B
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 21:35:29 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 19:35:29 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <bf2e5993-7548-70e3-8009-57ed64fb61b7@go2.pl>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
 <9468c1f431d34b83bb27738fa47c6155@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <bf2e5993-7548-70e3-8009-57ed64fb61b7@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <38f546bd461b430c9ea445ffe520af7e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Don't blame me if they just bodge it :-)    They don't have infinite time on the laser available.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Sowa [mailto:modular at go2.pl] 
Sent: 28 May 2021 14:00
To: Mike Bryant; Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?

Good to know, I had no idea.
So next time when I'll design tight, maze, ridiculous cutouts in my PCB, they will be forced to use laser cut. Gotta try it...

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-28 o?11:10, Mike Bryant pisze:
> Hi Roman
> 
> JLCPCB introduced a laser PCB cutter in 2019 as discussed in their forum and on some blogs.  But they still use mechanical milling as well and indeed their capabilities page states that this is the only offering.  But it's been quite clear on quite a few of my recent designs that the cutouts have been lasered as there are no circular corners - just two straight edges meeting sharply.   But there is no way of specifying you must have laser cutting.  Vias are always drilled as far as I can work out.
> 




From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Fri May 28 21:56:29 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 21:56:29 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] FW: rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <231cef296e234445a11bec19dfad4b56@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
 <231cef296e234445a11bec19dfad4b56@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <1704f1e9-cee0-bdf3-c970-a0456032b1bb@gmx.de>

Mike Bryant:
> I suspect even Apple will see problems with the next iPhone.
[OT]
I already see problems with the current one!

youtube.com/watch?v=p0_nXC30snk

(and with big G just the same, of course)




From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Fri May 28 22:32:31 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 13:32:31 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>

I have put the odd 5532 in as the final output amp on some VCAs.  However, I
have neither the skill nor the equipment to measure whether they are
demonstrably better.  Like probably 99% of DIY electronics guys, I just went
by what I read in Douglas Self's book about it.



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Bryant
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 3:15 AM
To: Neil Johnson
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

And 5532s for the output amps.  TL072s aren't so good there.

I've been asked why we don't just use 5532s everywhere.  Simple - the mixer
would be so hot you'd need several extra fans which rather messes up the
signal to noise ratio for the guy doing the mixing.  
And in fact for the mic amp the distortion is slightly worse than with a
TL072 as it loads the input pair more.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Neil
Johnson via Synth-diy
Sent: 28 May 2021 10:37
To: Synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

For what they cost they're pretty good opamps, and suitable for many
applications.  Sure, they're not the lowest noise, or distortion, or offset,
or drift, or power consumption, but they are incredibly cheap (but not too
cheap!).  For general use they're hard to beat.

Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks, where
it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532 or 5534 for
the sum amps.

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 22:32:43 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:32:43 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>

to everyone who says Mouser delivers in 2 days to Germany, is it still
the case recently? Thanks

What are delivery times like on Digikey?

I agree Conrad is a pharmacy, their selection is bad, their prices are
hilarious, and a lot of the stuff is just rebadged aliexpress. Plus,
they don't do a lot of semis from what I've seen. Definitely not
enough for even the kind of simple needs I have.

I guess I'll order at Mouser unless everyone says they're a 3 week
lead time now.

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 2:45 PM mark verbos <markverbos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I?m in Germany and I order from Mouser pretty much every week. They crank up the prices when you tell them you are outside the US, but they cover the import duties and the shipping is free. I get most packages in 2 days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 2021, at 12:37 AM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
> > other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?
> >
> > On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:56 PM Florian Anwander
> > <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here in Germany is a Mouser-like shop called Buerklin. Since the mid eighties they store everything in wooden shelves in cardbox boxes. They ship everything in paperbags (with the exception of electrostatic sensitive parts).
> >> This was my first business contact to someone who showed something like ecologic responsibility.
> >>
> >> http://www.florian-anwander.de
> >>
> >>
> >>> Am 27.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb David G Dixon via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>:
> >>>
> >>> Hey SDIY Team,
> >>>
> >>> Sorry to interrupt all the Monty Python  riffing, but I've got a fairly unconventional question, which I would guess many of you have also pondered:
> >>>
> >>> What do you do with all of your Digikey  bags?
> >>>
> >>> I just ordered 100 each of about 54 different values of 1% resistors for my two Dome filter designs, and I transferred the resistors from the bags they came in to the bags I already had brightly labelled in red Sharpie ink.  Somehow, I seem to be left with what looks like about 2000 empty bags.  Some of the resistors were packed in 10 bags of 10 inside a bigger bag.  Some were in 4 bags of 25 in a bigger bag.  Quite a few were in a small bag of 100 placed inside a bigger bag with an identical label.
> >>>
> >>> I can imagine blue Digikey bags flowing out of my doors and windows like so much flood water if I make too many more Digikey orders.  I've already got shoeboxes of the damn things stored all over my garage.  I hate just dumping them in the recycling bin, or (heaven forfend) the trash.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Dave Dixon
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Synth-diy mailing list
> >>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 22:36:23 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:36:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-84Gb6G0w6v+P0P-pCXXQqLGPRRzMtrDDFJ08FuGJWQag@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Neil,
what makes the OPA1656 and TLV9152 so amazing?

Also, do they come in convenient smd packages?

Thanks.

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 11:41 AM Neil Johnson via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> David G Dixon wrote:
> > In 12 years of designing modules, I have never used anything other than
> > TL072 and TL074.  No one has complained.
>
> For what they cost they're pretty good opamps, and suitable for many
> applications.  Sure, they're not the lowest noise, or distortion, or
> offset, or drift, or power consumption, but they are incredibly cheap
> (but not too cheap!).  For general use they're hard to beat.
>
> Typical mixing desk these days is TL072 for all but high-gain blocks,
> where it's either transistors as the gain elements (mic pre) or 5532
> or 5534 for the sum amps.
> As an example, https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/wz14-4-2/
>
> Brian Willoughby wrote:
> > I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the
> > crop. I assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
> >
> > TLE2082
> > TLE2072
>
> Over-priced for the noise and distortion.  Unless you're an "072"
> fetishist with deep pockets there are much better opamps for much less
> money.  The mutts nuts right now for audio appears to be the OPA1656,
> with the OPA1678 trying to take over the TL072's position.
>
> One opamp I'm having a lot of fun with right now is the TLV9102 in a
> battery-powered application.  It's cousin the TLV9152 is astonishing!
>
> Neil
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 22:38:07 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:38:07 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_OkGPjwaakZvLyWm6RfoXyWkoE_p=wo_JYFGX6U5QdjQ@mail.gmail.com>

What's a Q25?

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 4:48 PM MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
>
> I've use Seeed for a few orders of 25-ers (Q25). The first batch had the
> wrong SMD resistors all over the place, but they took them back and
> fixed them. I've order since then with no problems.
>
> I noticed DigiKey offers "DKRed" now, but know nothing about it. It's
> just PCB though, no PCBA.
>
> Either way, with no microcontrollers available anywhere that I can find,
> things will be slowing down for digital folks.
>
> GB
>
>
> On 5/24/2021 5:56 AM, john slee via Synth-diy wrote:
>
> > I'm curious about trying low-volume outsourced assembly though (eg.
> > Seeed's "Fusion" service) just for the experience of trying it. I enjoy
> > the schematic capture and board layout process in Eagle ? especially
> > since I added automatic generation of front panel PCBs to my workflow! ?
> > but frankly I don't enjoy the assembly process that much anymore
> >
> > John
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Fri May 28 22:44:28 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:44:28 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>

I can see the eurocrackheads running prices up 10x. Just you wait and see.


On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:51 PM David Bulog via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
> How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
>
> " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
>
>
> cheers Dave B
>
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From ben at stuyts.nl  Fri May 28 22:46:48 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:46:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>


> On 28 May 2021, at 20:22, Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Mike Bryant:
>> Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.

I don?t see any delays or errors in delivering messages to Mike?s address. If so it must be a problem somewhere upstream.

> From my observations, it seems to just shuffle the timing a bit, so you
> might get the missing ones tomorrow :D  That happened only sometimes
> (that I'm aware of)


Normally a new message is delivered in about 10 or 15 minutes to all (?looks at membership list...) 1124 members.

There are a few ISP?s that are very tough on mailing list traffic, though: cox.net <http://cox.net/> and the various gmx.com <http://gmx.com/> variants are the biggest offenders. Cox.net <http://cox.net/> is the worst and delays messages up to 5 days (and then the mailing list just gives up). Too many of those and the list automatically unsubscribes you. Gmx refuses a message for maybe a few hours or max ~1 day. Over the past years I?ve tried all kinds of things to get past these restrictions (including trying to contact someone at those ISP?s), but this is what it is. I know that even mailing list specialist groups.io <http://groups.io/> has trouble delivering to cox.net <http://cox.net/>.

I?m sorry for the two remaining cox.net <http://cox.net/> members, you?re missing out on most of the Python jokes...

Ben

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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Fri May 28 22:52:32 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 15:52:32 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
 <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACodTR8Cs5arKZ6DLbQa4SmkEmqEPcnVDpf6JAegh6G4z8v1Ag@mail.gmail.com>

In what world does this hobby bear more impact on the global semiconductor
market than Apple, Google, Auto manufacturers, etc?

Or have I completely misunderstood your point?

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I can see the eurocrackheads running prices up 10x. Just you wait and see.
>
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:51 PM David Bulog via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
> > How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
> >
> > " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or
> early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global
> semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than
> likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until
> late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure
> out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
> >
> >
> > cheers Dave B
> >
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 22:59:57 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 20:59:57 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-84Gb6G0w6v+P0P-pCXXQqLGPRRzMtrDDFJ08FuGJWQag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-84Gb6G0w6v+P0P-pCXXQqLGPRRzMtrDDFJ08FuGJWQag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0da7eb63723b42fa81bd5d941905529e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>


> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy

> what makes the OPA1656 and TLV9152 so amazing?

> Also, do they come in convenient smd packages?

Fortunately there is a SOIC version of the TLV9152.   I'll give the 9152 a go in my reference A-D convertor design sometime.

As for the OPA1656, it's possibly gone that little bit too far beyond what anybody can hear although it is cheaper than the OPA2134.  It's not optimised for mic preamps, and too good for most other things.  Guitar preamps and similar pickups for violins, etc, is probably its main use.



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 23:02:13 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 21:02:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
 <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Ok thanks for looking at it.  I seem to get most replies but the odd one just blackholes.  I?ll see if the one I mentioned arrives tomorrow.

From: Ben Stuyts [mailto:ben at stuyts.nl]
Sent: 28 May 2021 21:47
To: sleepy_dog at gmx.de; Mike Bryant
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)


On 28 May 2021, at 20:22, Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:

Mike Bryant:

Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.

I don?t see any delays or errors in delivering messages to Mike?s address. If so it must be a problem somewhere upstream.


From my observations, it seems to just shuffle the timing a bit, so you
might get the missing ones tomorrow :D  That happened only sometimes
(that I'm aware of)

Normally a new message is delivered in about 10 or 15 minutes to all (?looks at membership list...) 1124 members.

There are a few ISP?s that are very tough on mailing list traffic, though: cox.net<http://cox.net> and the various gmx.com<http://gmx.com> variants are the biggest offenders. Cox.net<http://Cox.net> is the worst and delays messages up to 5 days (and then the mailing list just gives up). Too many of those and the list automatically unsubscribes you. Gmx refuses a message for maybe a few hours or max ~1 day. Over the past years I?ve tried all kinds of things to get past these restrictions (including trying to contact someone at those ISP?s), but this is what it is. I know that even mailing list specialist groups.io<http://groups.io> has trouble delivering to cox.net<http://cox.net>.

I?m sorry for the two remaining cox.net<http://cox.net> members, you?re missing out on most of the Python jokes...

Ben

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Fri May 28 23:04:18 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 21:04:18 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>



From: David G Dixon [mailto:dixon at mail.ubc.ca] 

> .  Like probably 99% of DIY electronics guys, I just went by what I read in Douglas Self's book about it.

That's a good practice.  It's filtering out the 1% who don't that is the issue :-)



From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Fri May 28 23:38:20 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 14:38:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>

Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.

This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.

I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.

Brian


On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
> 
> Roman




From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Fri May 28 23:40:49 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 22:40:49 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
 <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMx+PaNG3yAXOzHFxbny176CQP4RT2x5SfYZEAEX+ON8Amw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 28 May 2021, 22:04 Mike Bryant, <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:

>
>
> From: David G Dixon [mailto:dixon at mail.ubc.ca]
>
> > .  Like probably 99% of DIY electronics guys, I just went by what I read
> in Douglas Self's book about it.
>
> That's a good practice.  It's filtering out the 1% who don't that is the
> issue :-)
>

It would be nice if it was as high as 99%....

Neil

>
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From mskala at northcoastsynthesis.com  Fri May 28 23:53:21 2021
From: mskala at northcoastsynthesis.com (mskala at northcoastsynthesis.com)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:53:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.20.2105281748390.13840@kharasan.bonobo-conspiracy.ca>

On Fri, 28 May 2021, Brian Willoughby wrote:
> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on
> it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better,
> incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least
> they're moving in the right direction.

I wish they'd just drop all attempts to interfere with scrolling.  It used
to be that I could grab the browser-native horizontal scroll bar and
scroll to different parts of the table.  Now, the first click changes some
kind of "mode" and then I need to click a second time to actually scroll,
apparently just so that they can override the normal operation of the
browser's native scroll bar to keep a couple of columns locked at the left
side of the screen - which is a feature I never asked for and I'm sure
nobody did.  It's annoying and completely unnecessary.

-- 
Matthew Skala
North Coast Synthesis, Ltd.


From obl64 at ix.netcom.com  Sat May 29 00:11:05 2021
From: obl64 at ix.netcom.com (Oren Leavitt)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:11:05 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
Message-ID: <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>

Luxury!

Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill 
out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.

On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
> Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
>
> This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
>
> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
>>
>> Roman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From tom at electricdruid.net  Sat May 29 00:18:03 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 23:18:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR8Cs5arKZ6DLbQa4SmkEmqEPcnVDpf6JAegh6G4z8v1Ag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
 <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR8Cs5arKZ6DLbQa4SmkEmqEPcnVDpf6JAegh6G4z8v1Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200BFB66-86FD-416C-9072-8CB3A6CC2D5A@electricdruid.net>

You?d be surprised. Try buying a V3207 BBD at the moment. They?re selling out everywhere, and Coolaudio are quoting an eight month lead time if you can get them to answer an email at all.

So, yeah, prices will probably rise. Even in our hobby world.

Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 28 May 2021, at 21:52, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> In what world does this hobby bear more impact on the global semiconductor market than Apple, Google, Auto manufacturers, etc?
> 
> Or have I completely misunderstood your point?
> 
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> I can see the eurocrackheads running prices up 10x. Just you wait and see.
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:51 PM David Bulog via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:synth-diy at synth-diy.org>> wrote:
> >
> > HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
> > How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
> >
> > " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
> >
> >
> > cheers Dave B
> >
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Synth-diy mailing list
> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org <mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy <http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy>
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org <mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
> 
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> _______________________________________________
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From hbissell at wowway.com  Sat May 29 00:26:31 2021
From: hbissell at wowway.com (Mr&MrsAccount)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 18:26:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
In-Reply-To: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
References: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1243697804.22694741.1622240791166.JavaMail.zimbra@wowway.com>

Yes you are basically correct.
The "unpowered" regulator issue is misunderstood. It (almost always) can only source current, not sink it. So the excess voltage coming through the upper clamp diode never goes "back" into the regulator but "forward" into your circuit.  The current available is the difference of the input voltage to the gate, and the nominal supply voltage, across the input resistor (1K). so if you put 15V at the input, there is 10V across the 1K resistor = 10mA extra current.
This might even be enough to run your circuit (as long as the gate is high)
Another issue with putting the zener clamp across the power supply is tolerances.  The 5.1V zener might always draw a little current from the supply if the supply is on the "high side" and the zener clamp is on the "low side".   In addition, if the supply were to go high because of a malfunction, the zener could get very hot unless it were able to dump all the excess power as heat.
Another technique is to use the zener on the input right after the input diode.  For a positive voltage it will clamp at the zener voltage, and the inherent reverse diode will stop a negative input from going more than 0.7V below ground.
If you expect unpredictable input voltages this is the way to go.  If you want to protect all the inputs at once, try using the "high side" clamp diode but instead of running it to the power supply, run it to a single zener instead. Then you can share the single zener between all inputs.  But watch out, if ALL the inputs are overvoltage, the input resistors end up in parallel and contribute to the power the zener needs to dump.  Doing it this way means you never risk an overvoltage on your system power supply.
The two clamp diodes to the power supply rails is more intended to prevent against a transient overvoltage only.  In this case the energy from the overvoltage transient dumps into the system power supply capacitors, which are usually chosen large enough that the spike doesn't raise the supply voltage too much, thinkof dumping a glass of water into an already full bathtub.  Not much change is going to happen to the water level.
Harry
----- Original Message -----
From: ShedSynth via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Sent: Fri, 28 May 2021 12:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?

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-->I have an Arduino-based module, with a GATE input protected by 1K input resistor then clamping diodes to 0V & +5V.https://shedsynth.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/adsr-a-schematic-gate-to-d2.pngI find that with power off to that module any GATE or CV to the input can pull up the module's +5V through the diode and even power the whole case's +5V rail.The clue was seeing the case?s +5V LED flashing in time with the GATE input. And I think that if the input is more than +5V, the un-powered voltage regulator will not be able to regulate so digital components (and perhaps the voltage regulator itself) might be damaged.Have I understood this correctly? I'm wondering whether to put a 5.1V zener across the module's 0V and +5V to catch any over-voltage.Have I understood THAT correctly? Thanks in advance,Al SHEDSYNTH ? home-knitted eurorack 
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From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Sat May 29 00:31:18 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:31:18 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <200BFB66-86FD-416C-9072-8CB3A6CC2D5A@electricdruid.net>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
 <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR8Cs5arKZ6DLbQa4SmkEmqEPcnVDpf6JAegh6G4z8v1Ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <200BFB66-86FD-416C-9072-8CB3A6CC2D5A@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CACodTR8ghaXFMG0gjPMj2vL0CNpV1z5RiEtojRFud_EBJ=wZSw@mail.gmail.com>

Well yes, of course prices will go up and affect us as well.

But that's not *us* or some subset that matches "eurocrackheads" driving up
the prices.  Even the manufacturers of Euro modules don't have enough
volume to swing that market, I don't believe.

Pete

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 5:18 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:

> You?d be surprised. Try buying a V3207 BBD at the moment. They?re selling
> out everywhere, and Coolaudio are quoting an eight month lead time if you
> can get them to answer an email at all.
>
> So, yeah, prices will probably rise. Even in our hobby world.
>
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
>
>
> On 28 May 2021, at 21:52, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> In what world does this hobby bear more impact on the global semiconductor
> market than Apple, Google, Auto manufacturers, etc?
>
> Or have I completely misunderstood your point?
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>> I can see the eurocrackheads running prices up 10x. Just you wait and see.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:51 PM David Bulog via Synth-diy
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259
>> Osc
>> > How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
>> >
>> > " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022
>> or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global
>> semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than
>> likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until
>> late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure
>> out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
>> >
>> >
>> > cheers Dave B
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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>
>
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From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sat May 29 00:55:04 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 15:55:04 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
In-Reply-To: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
References: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD9B8892-176F-4DA6-BBA1-B769DA681CF6@audiobanshee.com>

Someone already answered your exact question, but I wanted to add...

Yours is not the only circuit to mysteriously power up with unexpected inputs. Many MCU chips have similar clamping diodes on all GPIO pins, but that allows uncontrolled inputs to power the chip. Sometimes, the power is enough to turn the chip on, but not enough for everything to operate correctly; or perhaps enough that the chip never does a proper power-on reset. I've seen USB devices stay on when their power switch and main USB cable were disconnected, because an accessory cable feeding an A/D input (GPIO) had enough voltage to keep the chip going. Some of these MCU chips - like those from Microchip - can run on anything from 3 V to 5 V, but the clock speeds are reduced at 3 V along with certain other capabilities. It can be very frustrating to diagnose if you don't realize that the chip is half-way powering up.

Typically, the solution for this is to add something like 100 ? in series with any input. That's not much resistance, but it's enough to drop 5 V to below 3 V with any more than 20 mA draw. Not all inputs will work with series resistance, so you have to adapt to the situation.

Brian


On May 28, 2021, at 09:57, ShedSynth wrote:
> I have an Arduino-based module, with a GATE input protected by 1K input resistor then clamping diodes to 0V & +5V.
> https://shedsynth.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/adsr-a-schematic-gate-to-d2.png
> I find that with power off to that module any GATE or CV to the input can pull up the module's +5V through the diode and even power the whole case's +5V rail.
> The clue was seeing the case?s +5V LED flashing in time with the GATE input.
>  
> And I think that if the input is more than +5V, the un-powered voltage regulator will not be able to regulate so digital components (and perhaps the voltage regulator itself) might be damaged.
> Have I understood this correctly?
>  
> I'm wondering whether to put a 5.1V zener across the module's 0V and +5V to catch any over-voltage.
> Have I understood THAT correctly?
>  
> Thanks in advance,
> Al



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 01:04:26 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:04:26 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8xQ-iSS-vV=ZFNFBYFR+Cf65hVoyERO1EaVhXqJhvhVg@mail.gmail.com>

You had parts in stock? We won't have parts in stock through to 2023!!!

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 12:14 AM Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Luxury!
>
> Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill
> out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.
>
> On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
> > Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
> >
> > This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
> >
> > I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> >> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
> >>
> >> Roman
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 01:07:11 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:07:11 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
 <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
 <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>

Check spam.

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> Ok thanks for looking at it.  I seem to get most replies but the odd one just blackholes.  I?ll see if the one I mentioned arrives tomorrow.
>
>
>
> From: Ben Stuyts [mailto:ben at stuyts.nl]
> Sent: 28 May 2021 21:47
> To: sleepy_dog at gmx.de; Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28 May 2021, at 20:22, Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Mike Bryant:
>
> Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.
>
>
>
> I don?t see any delays or errors in delivering messages to Mike?s address. If so it must be a problem somewhere upstream.
>
>
>
> From my observations, it seems to just shuffle the timing a bit, so you
> might get the missing ones tomorrow :D  That happened only sometimes
> (that I'm aware of)
>
>
>
> Normally a new message is delivered in about 10 or 15 minutes to all (?looks at membership list...) 1124 members.
>
>
>
> There are a few ISP?s that are very tough on mailing list traffic, though: cox.net and the various gmx.com variants are the biggest offenders. Cox.net is the worst and delays messages up to 5 days (and then the mailing list just gives up). Too many of those and the list automatically unsubscribes you. Gmx refuses a message for maybe a few hours or max ~1 day. Over the past years I?ve tried all kinds of things to get past these restrictions (including trying to contact someone at those ISP?s), but this is what it is. I know that even mailing list specialist groups.io has trouble delivering to cox.net.
>
>
>
> I?m sorry for the two remaining cox.net members, you?re missing out on most of the Python jokes...
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 01:08:33 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:08:33 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage
In-Reply-To: <CACodTR8ghaXFMG0gjPMj2vL0CNpV1z5RiEtojRFud_EBJ=wZSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fce2b298-2b38-4d04-3be6-c574d2e52ee6@go2.pl>
 <5564FB55-536F-4C08-A688-AAC9A58353F5@me.com>
 <CAK+JDy318KQ91Xx-hzwFEiJoDauRazM21PUrQOLFNakjt01-zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <884675a6-f29a-bb0b-3b0b-1c000524aabd@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
 <5AA3451E-21D4-42AA-8D28-BAA95B70692D@gmail.com>
 <1370729390.2065095.1622227699774@webmail.xtra.co.nz>
 <CAGn5V--DGoRB6L+QkYnA4Znf1z5zHNXNkSkN=f9oNBvNdVQAAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACodTR8Cs5arKZ6DLbQa4SmkEmqEPcnVDpf6JAegh6G4z8v1Ag@mail.gmail.com>
 <200BFB66-86FD-416C-9072-8CB3A6CC2D5A@electricdruid.net>
 <CACodTR8ghaXFMG0gjPMj2vL0CNpV1z5RiEtojRFud_EBJ=wZSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9OZpDSqsNZg8B+7Ofb+5-F6ocKbQNuV5wMnY+7KyP-dw@mail.gmail.com>

I mean they'll drive up the prices of the modules themselves. It's all
going on in the second hand market right now and it'll easily spill
over into the first hand market soon enough. It'll be a very unhealthy
market, that's for sure. Higher prices are NOT good for manufacturers.

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 12:34 AM Pete Hartman via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> Well yes, of course prices will go up and affect us as well.
>
> But that's not *us* or some subset that matches "eurocrackheads" driving up the prices.  Even the manufacturers of Euro modules don't have enough volume to swing that market, I don't believe.
>
> Pete
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 5:18 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>>
>> You?d be surprised. Try buying a V3207 BBD at the moment. They?re selling out everywhere, and Coolaudio are quoting an eight month lead time if you can get them to answer an email at all.
>>
>> So, yeah, prices will probably rise. Even in our hobby world.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> ==================
>>        Electric Druid
>> Synth & Stompbox DIY
>> ==================
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 May 2021, at 21:52, Pete Hartman via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> In what world does this hobby bear more impact on the global semiconductor market than Apple, Google, Auto manufacturers, etc?
>>
>> Or have I completely misunderstood your point?
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 3:47 PM cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can see the eurocrackheads running prices up 10x. Just you wait and see.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 8:51 PM David Bulog via Synth-diy
>>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > HexInvertor made this post on Muffs re the Mindphaser 259 Complex 259 Osc
>>> > How seriously do you think the Eurorack Industry will be impacted ?
>>> >
>>> > " There likely will not be any more Mindphasers built until late 2022 or early 2023. Since April, there has been a rapidly developing global semiconductor shortage. Mindphaser is seriously affected, and it more than likely means that there will not be a new run of them coming ready until late 2022 or early 2023, unless circumstances change or we manage to figure out how to grow silicon on trees (not likely)."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > cheers Dave B
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > > Synth-diy mailing list
>>> > > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> > > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> > > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Synth-diy mailing list
>>> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sat May 29 01:08:38 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 23:08:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
 <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
 <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <099b11e0187a4cc3ae457a0db657bf17@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Definitely not there

-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: 29 May 2021 00:07
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Ben Stuyts; sleepy_dog at gmx.de; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)

Check spam.

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 11:05 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> Ok thanks for looking at it.  I seem to get most replies but the odd one just blackholes.  I?ll see if the one I mentioned arrives tomorrow.
>
>
>
> From: Ben Stuyts [mailto:ben at stuyts.nl]
> Sent: 28 May 2021 21:47
> To: sleepy_dog at gmx.de; Mike Bryant
> Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 
> discontinuation)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28 May 2021, at 20:22, Steve via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Mike Bryant:
>
> Does the list server only give people a subset of all posts ?   I received the post by Roman here, but not the one from Neil he is answering.  Very odd.
>
>
>
> I don?t see any delays or errors in delivering messages to Mike?s address. If so it must be a problem somewhere upstream.
>
>
>
> From my observations, it seems to just shuffle the timing a bit, so 
> you might get the missing ones tomorrow :D  That happened only 
> sometimes (that I'm aware of)
>
>
>
> Normally a new message is delivered in about 10 or 15 minutes to all (?looks at membership list...) 1124 members.
>
>
>
> There are a few ISP?s that are very tough on mailing list traffic, though: cox.net and the various gmx.com variants are the biggest offenders. Cox.net is the worst and delays messages up to 5 days (and then the mailing list just gives up). Too many of those and the list automatically unsubscribes you. Gmx refuses a message for maybe a few hours or max ~1 day. Over the past years I?ve tried all kinds of things to get past these restrictions (including trying to contact someone at those ISP?s), but this is what it is. I know that even mailing list specialist groups.io has trouble delivering to cox.net.
>
>
>
> I?m sorry for the two remaining cox.net members, you?re missing out on most of the Python jokes...
>
>
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 01:14:06 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:14:06 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9duGV70K2dWVnZx4DTGQhqD08MgcqkLT9wWo6jj38ijw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 6:33 PM Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> The reason why the TLE2062 was used in the OBMx instead of the Buchla
> preferred TL07x/06x is before Don was brought on board, Gibson CEO
> Henry J stockpiled parts to build production OBMx units before a
> working prototype was even completed.  You NEVER do that.  The
> pre-Buchla prototype was never satisfactory, Gibson was paying
> expensive warehouse costs for these parts that couldn't be used, and
> the value of these components were dropping like a rock.  So when
> Buchla was brought in, it was under the condition that the purchased
> components had to be used wherever possible.

lol.


From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sat May 29 01:46:00 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 16:46:00 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <9EAD3FBF-4AD8-4730-A185-BC6C429F2EAE@audiobanshee.com>

Yeah!

Four to six weeks was considered standard.


On May 28, 2021, at 15:11, Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> Luxury!
> 
> Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.
> 
> On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>> Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
>> 
>> This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
>> 
>> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
>>> 
>>> Roman
> 




From ben at stuyts.nl  Sat May 29 01:56:20 2021
From: ben at stuyts.nl (Ben Stuyts)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 01:56:20 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
 <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
 <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FBEB6417-FC53-4F67-B01F-7D6A76BBCE6E@stuyts.nl>


> On 29 May 2021, at 01:07, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Check spam.

Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam; spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam; or Lobster Thermidor au Crevettes with a mornay sauce served in a Proven?ale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Ben





From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sat May 29 02:14:38 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:14:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <4a44c207b76cc424a1fc16a9a7a4ce23@synthark.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <d68202529cbe987ebac17364c2add4a7@synthark.com>
 <e1543b7841e54f928c76110a6c929c92@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <0d6f744723351a61700149cc9efd51c1@synthark.com>
 <c14b52c05b4c49a1adedf0efe481bae4@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V--3jaLjf2qBxX6pfMFxJL+6-KgXaqe+np9BMeBtvoK0pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a44c207b76cc424a1fc16a9a7a4ce23@synthark.com>
Message-ID: <0C7859B5-B7EA-4ECB-B6F1-B9ED5E4671EC@audiobanshee.com>

Do you folks use the DFM rules?

I use Eagle, and I have a DFM file for each fab house. Some fab houses provide an Eagle DFM. Some just have a table with the values. A given board turns out vastly differently when the rules are changed.

I've found it much less likely to have errors when the rules match the capabilities.

That said, FreeDFM complained about Gerber files from Eagle that met the DFM checks for Advanced Circuits (4PCB). Perhaps their rendering algorithms differed somehow. I usually decide whether to move things enough to avoid the warnings, increase the copper size, or just ignore them. The boards always turn out and pass ET.

Brian


On May 28, 2021, at 06:55, doug at synthark.com wrote:
> I'm sure Mike can answer this better than I can, but I'm assuming EasyEDA accounts for any manufacturing quirks JLCPCB has, since it's their tool.  That said, I've never had an issue uploading Gerber from Diptrace, along with CSV BOM and PnP files for PCB fab and assembly (although I do edit the BOM and PnP files a bit to match their formatting examples and part numbers).
> ---
> Doug Huseby
> 
> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 9:06 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>> Or just recreate it in EasyEDA.  It always seems that people who design in EasyEDA get good results and those who import from anything else, or miss out doing that altogether have problems and moan about JLCPCB.  A key thing is they don't claim to be compatible with a footprint standard that I can't remember the name/number of - they've gone their own way.




From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sat May 29 02:20:54 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:20:54 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
 <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <0E010F55-4A9E-44DF-8F87-F8AF89CD821B@audiobanshee.com>

You have to call your fab house to verify, but I'd say that 1) is normal.

Sometimes, they'll break a bit and change to a different size. If you designed for 2) and they lost the bit, they'd have to adjust the file based on two measurements rather than one.

A fab house should have tolerances advertised. That's how close they'll get to your specifications, and the tighter the specs, the more it costs.

These are great questions, but sometimes it's surprising how difficult it is to get answers even when you're talking to the folks who'll do the work. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard, "Whatever you need, we can make it work!" - I'd be a rich man. I often call because I want to find the cheapest specifications that they have so I can adjust my design to work within that, but the fab house flips that around and claims they can do anything. I always assume that it will cost more if I unknowingly challenge the limits of their setup(s).

Brian


On May 28, 2021, at 01:46, Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk> wrote:
> For PCB profile routing (milling) is it normal to:
> 
> 1. Draw the Gerber line where you want the PCB edge to end up?  (and they make allowances for the cutting tool diameter.)
> 
> _or_
> 
> 2. Draw the Gerber line where you want the centre line of the cutting tool to follow, knowing in advance what the cutting tool diameter is, so that you end up getting the right size cut-out?
> 
> I've encountered both approach, and on occasion been caught out!  Just wondered if there was a consensus on the way it is normally handled?
> 
> I can see advantages and disadvantages to both methods.
> 
> -Richie,
> 



From brianw at audiobanshee.com  Sat May 29 02:30:38 2021
From: brianw at audiobanshee.com (Brian Willoughby)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2021 17:30:38 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] PCB faceplate large hole creation?
In-Reply-To: <16d84d6822664293b278d111b8a4be89@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <cb0dea4110930ed3d2bad8a7f5abf79f@synthark.com>
 <ef0bb838a2164da48b5b228a5bf84be0@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <83e3c64f-23af-a44d-4e76-f4af99bf6e76@go2.pl>
 <67A5FB2FDA2B464F948DDFB1626A0416@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <16d84d6822664293b278d111b8a4be89@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <086C497B-00D9-46CF-9EA0-26DDFDF33818@audiobanshee.com>

That "0.2mm from edge" rule is not only about the routing accuracy. It also affects layers shorting to each other and/or shorting to the case (assuming a metal or conductive case).


I once toured a fab house who bragged about their engineering staff who "fixed" things. She told a story about a military contractor during the Gulf War who used them for prototypes, won the contract bid, but then switched to another fab house to save money. The result? Tens of thousands of military radios delivered to the desert that would not work because the PCB power rails were shorted to the case. Turns out the layout designer had allowed copper layers to be 0.0mm from the edge and the prototype fab house had "corrected" that. The cheap fab house did not.

Of course, my silent response was, "That's not a thing to brag about!"

(not to mention: anyone who switches fab houses without a prototype run to confirm 100% functionality is getting what they asked for)

Later, I confirmed with larger clients in the music industry that they have contracts with fab houses (and everyone else) stating that any changes to engineering design files must be looped back to them and approved. A smart company knows that they need to own all of the IP so that they can switch fabrication and assembly - whether due to someone going out of business, or just being out-bid - and still be able to manufacture "the same product" anywhere.


Another issue is that panelized boards need to be held in some sort of frame for assembly, and if all of your components are close to the edge then they can't do that. But this is more of an assembly limitation and not a PCB fab limitation. They're still related, though.

Brian Willoughby


On May 28, 2021, at 02:16, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> Depends on your vendor.  For JLCPCB it seems to be the outer edge, not the centre line, as their DRC allows tracks within 0.2mm of the edge (not that I ever put them that close), and they route the outline with a 0.65mm mill if not done with laser.




From chris at chrismusic.de  Sat May 29 02:38:12 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 02:38:12 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

On Fri, 28 May 2021 22:32:43 +0200 cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> to everyone who says Mouser delivers in 2 days to Germany, is it still
> the case recently? Thanks


2 weeks ago I placed an order on thursday in the evening, and on tuesday
morning the friendly FedEx guy rang the bell.

I was positively surprised - this was my very first Mouser order, and I
didn't expect transatlantic delivery to be that fast.

Chris



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 03:02:23 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 03:02:23 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] List delivery delays (was: DIP LM13700 discontinuation)
In-Reply-To: <FBEB6417-FC53-4F67-B01F-7D6A76BBCE6E@stuyts.nl>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbcc098f-7e45-8b7b-ea40-68baaf6b055e@go2.pl>
 <c52857468eeb4109a326a54f2dd2a3e8@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <6f362815-d157-02de-de03-49f22e290077@gmx.de>
 <4CFD817E-200F-481D-B3B2-F06BA4EB59CE@stuyts.nl>
 <cf5d3bee363c48d9ac2934c4ff77709f@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-9z2RV-kX8t-u7PkaEv7NGMadZb_2x8VZf_jV6Q4fMc9g@mail.gmail.com>
 <FBEB6417-FC53-4F67-B01F-7D6A76BBCE6E@stuyts.nl>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--R1Qh=EfArO+VK8tRZw51EtgL9JzSA-oSF42tad-_9SQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, I'll have the plain toast with butter.

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 1:56 AM Ben Stuyts <ben at stuyts.nl> wrote:
>
>
> > On 29 May 2021, at 01:07, cheater cheater <cheater00social at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Check spam.
>
> Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam; spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam; or Lobster Thermidor au Crevettes with a mornay sauce served in a Proven?ale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.
>
> Ben
>
>



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 03:03:06 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 03:03:06 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_ci+cAyEzSEuu8NocXWH0Z94-Pa-JWXiL+m8U7z3VY4w@mail.gmail.com>

Alright, I'm pulling the plug then. Thanks.

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 2:40 AM chris <chris at chrismusic.de> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 28 May 2021 22:32:43 +0200 cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> > to everyone who says Mouser delivers in 2 days to Germany, is it still
> > the case recently? Thanks
>
>
> 2 weeks ago I placed an order on thursday in the evening, and on tuesday
> morning the friendly FedEx guy rang the bell.
>
> I was positively surprised - this was my very first Mouser order, and I
> didn't expect transatlantic delivery to be that fast.
>
> Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From oakleysound at gmail.com  Sat May 29 09:41:25 2021
From: oakleysound at gmail.com (Tony Allgood)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 08:41:25 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMx+PaNG3yAXOzHFxbny176CQP4RT2x5SfYZEAEX+ON8Amw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
 <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CACZGMx+PaNG3yAXOzHFxbny176CQP4RT2x5SfYZEAEX+ON8Amw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e7c549f7-5c6b-9ee6-0c0b-51f3e1b311a1@gmail.com>

I accidentally pulled a 180 in Doug Self's car once when I borrowed it 
for some work related errand. Probably one of the scariest moments of my 
life. Luckily, and it really was down to luck, no one was hurt and the 
car was unscathed other than a bit of mud splatter.

I didn't tell him, but somehow he found out and I never got to drive it 
again.

I think it was a Peugeot 309GTi and I got the feeling it accelerated 
faster than it could stop. It certainly handled way different to my 
Vauxhall Chevette.

Tony


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sat May 29 09:49:25 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 09:49:25 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <e7c549f7-5c6b-9ee6-0c0b-51f3e1b311a1@gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
 <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CACZGMx+PaNG3yAXOzHFxbny176CQP4RT2x5SfYZEAEX+ON8Amw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e7c549f7-5c6b-9ee6-0c0b-51f3e1b311a1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8fYmD-hGx8o-5Ap90zHFX7shx+y0gt__h5ZAsAPaqU=w@mail.gmail.com>

Oof - glad you went unscathed, never mind the car.

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 9:45 AM Tony Allgood via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> I accidentally pulled a 180 in Doug Self's car once when I borrowed it
> for some work related errand. Probably one of the scariest moments of my
> life. Luckily, and it really was down to luck, no one was hurt and the
> car was unscathed other than a bit of mud splatter.
>
> I didn't tell him, but somehow he found out and I never got to drive it
> again.
>
> I think it was a Peugeot 309GTi and I got the feeling it accelerated
> faster than it could stop. It certainly handled way different to my
> Vauxhall Chevette.
>
> Tony
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From ackolonges at hotmail.com  Sat May 29 10:34:13 2021
From: ackolonges at hotmail.com (ackolonges fds)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 08:34:13 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
Message-ID: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Hi All,

I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg

The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.

I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.

Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend?

Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC glide circuit that is more suitable?

Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.

FALSTAD CIRCUIT
------------------------

$ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
g 48 224 48 240 0 0
R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
w 64 176 96 176 0
r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
w 176 176 176 240 0
a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
g 240 208 240 240 0 0
w 176 176 240 176 0
c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
w 320 192 336 192 0
d 400 192 400 256 2 default
w 336 192 400 192 0
w 176 240 176 272 0
w 176 272 304 272 0
w 304 272 304 256 0
w 304 256 336 256 0
w 336 256 400 256 0
w 400 256 464 256 0
t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
w 464 256 464 240 0
w 432 224 432 192 0
w 432 192 400 192 0
w 464 208 464 144 0
r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
w 464 80 752 80 0
w 752 80 752 320 0
w 768 352 800 352 0
c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
g 800 416 800 432 0 0
w 800 352 848 352 0
r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
w 656 384 656 496 0
w 656 496 672 496 0
a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 0.18007155406906683 100000
w 752 496 864 496 0
w 848 352 912 352 0
w 864 496 864 320 0
w 864 320 912 320 0
w 864 320 864 272 0
w 864 272 992 272 0
w 992 272 992 336 0
r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
g 96 240 96 272 0 0
o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3


[https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg]

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From quincas at gmail.com  Sat May 29 11:13:33 2021
From: quincas at gmail.com (Quincas Moreira)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 04:13:33 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <9317D8C5-4766-4648-A8E6-C072CDF44F8D@gmail.com>

Can?t beat the Serge DUSG

https://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/cgs/serge/cgs75/cgs75_vcs.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 May 2021, at 3:37, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi All,
> 
> I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg
> 
> The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.
> 
> I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.
> 
> Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend? 
> 
> Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC glide circuit that is more suitable?
> 
> Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.
> 
> FALSTAD CIRCUIT
> ------------------------
> 
> $ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
> 174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
> g 48 224 48 240 0 0
> R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
> w 64 176 96 176 0
> r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
> r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
> w 176 176 176 240 0
> a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
> g 240 208 240 240 0 0
> w 176 176 240 176 0
> c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
> w 320 192 336 192 0
> d 400 192 400 256 2 default
> w 336 192 400 192 0
> w 176 240 176 272 0
> w 176 272 304 272 0
> w 304 272 304 256 0
> w 304 256 336 256 0
> w 336 256 400 256 0
> w 400 256 464 256 0
> t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
> w 464 256 464 240 0
> w 432 224 432 192 0
> w 432 192 400 192 0
> w 464 208 464 144 0
> r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
> 402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
> r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
> R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
> w 464 80 752 80 0
> w 752 80 752 320 0
> w 768 352 800 352 0
> c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
> g 800 416 800 432 0 0
> w 800 352 848 352 0
> r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
> w 656 384 656 496 0
> w 656 496 672 496 0
> a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 0.18007155406906683 100000
> w 752 496 864 496 0
> w 848 352 912 352 0
> w 864 496 864 320 0
> w 864 320 912 320 0
> w 864 320 864 272 0
> w 864 272 992 272 0
> w 992 272 992 336 0
> r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
> g 96 240 96 272 0 0
> o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
> o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From spridley1 at gmail.com  Sat May 29 14:10:52 2021
From: spridley1 at gmail.com (S Ridley)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 13:10:52 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
In-Reply-To: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
References: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPgGCkJJ2U+VV2QEJGeik0jNzKCoEK-GZM+JNSvwqjz0O=MjYw@mail.gmail.com>

Many voltage regulators suggest adding a diode from output to input to
protect them against a higher voltage on the output than the input.  The
LM1117 datasheet (used in Arduinos) has this (on page 14):

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm1117.pdf

but Arduinos don't have this AFAIK.

If you only have a problem with one input, you could try a 4.7v zener after
your 1k input resistance - that would allow sufficient voltage to read as
high, but shouldn't have the possible leakage current problem of slapping a
5.1v zener across the 5v supply.

Another option is to invert the gate in the software, use the pin's
internal input pull-up and use an npn transistor to switch it to 0v.  I
suppose current might flow through the BC junction if the power is off, but
you'd be using a much higher base resistor on the input so current through
that route can be minimised.

Steve








<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, 28 May 2021 at 17:59, ShedSynth via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> I have an Arduino-based module, with a GATE input protected by 1K input
> resistor then clamping diodes to 0V & +5V.
>
>
> https://shedsynth.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/adsr-a-schematic-gate-to-d2.png
>
> I find that with power off to that module any GATE or CV to the input can
> pull up the module's +5V through the diode and even power the whole case's
> +5V rail.
>
> The clue was seeing the case?s +5V LED flashing in time with the GATE
> input.
>
>
>
> And I think that if the input is more than +5V, the un-powered voltage
> regulator will not be able to regulate so digital components (and perhaps
> the voltage regulator itself) might be damaged.
>
> Have I understood this correctly?
>
>
>
> I'm wondering whether to put a 5.1V zener across the module's 0V and +5V
> to catch any over-voltage.
>
> Have I understood THAT correctly?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Al
>
>
>
> SHEDSYNTH <https://shedsynth.wordpress.com/> ? home-knitted eurorack
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From sleepy_dog at gmx.de  Sat May 29 18:10:40 2021
From: sleepy_dog at gmx.de (sleepy_dog at gmx.de)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 18:10:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <f671bca0-107b-9774-c9ac-1e6a3b2568df@gmx.de>

David G Dixon via Synth-diy:
> I have put the odd 5532 in as the final output amp on some VCAs.  However, I
> have neither the skill nor the equipment to measure whether they are
> demonstrably better.  Like probably 99% of DIY electronics guys, I just went
> by what I read in Douglas Self's book about it.

IIRC there are different varieties of the NE5532 around, right? Some
cheaper, said to be markedly worse in performance.




From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Sat May 29 18:45:53 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 09:45:53 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
In-Reply-To: <CAPgGCkJJ2U+VV2QEJGeik0jNzKCoEK-GZM+JNSvwqjz0O=MjYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
 <CAPgGCkJJ2U+VV2QEJGeik0jNzKCoEK-GZM+JNSvwqjz0O=MjYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c5f517ee-cc35-be4d-ba39-e187328bd81b@musictechnologiesgroup.com>

This is a cool idea, but I'm curious about the OP's problem. What's the 
use-case here where part of the rig is powered? Is this just 
power-on-off timing situation or is powering part of the system a normal 
part of using it?


On 5/29/2021 5:10 AM, S Ridley via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> Another option is to invert the gate in the software, use the pin's 
> internal input pull-up and use an npn transistor to switch it to 0v.? I 
> suppose current might flow through the BC junction if the power is off, 
> but you'd be using a much higher base resistor on the input so current 
> through that route can be minimised.
> 
> Steve
> 


From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sat May 29 20:32:17 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 11:32:17 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <f671bca0-107b-9774-c9ac-1e6a3b2568df@gmx.de>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
 <f671bca0-107b-9774-c9ac-1e6a3b2568df@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <77FD2DCF532540FAAB38902CFE4D9383@david78c70950b>

Actually, I only used 5532 in one VCA module.  TL07X is good enough for me.
For me, if the waveform looks clean and sounds clean, then it is clean.



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Steve
via Synth-diy
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:11 AM
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

David G Dixon via Synth-diy:
> I have put the odd 5532 in as the final output amp on some VCAs.  
> However, I have neither the skill nor the equipment to measure whether 
> they are demonstrably better.  Like probably 99% of DIY electronics 
> guys, I just went by what I read in Douglas Self's book about it.

IIRC there are different varieties of the NE5532 around, right? Some
cheaper, said to be markedly worse in performance.


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sat May 29 21:45:27 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 19:45:27 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] JLCPCB
Message-ID: <f83f5bff4d9f4622b70996aca38d6547@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

So of course after saying my last few orders have been laser cut, this morning's delivery is most obviously rotary milled !!

Oh well.  Still looks better quality than UK PCB houses.
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From ackolonges at hotmail.com  Sun May 30 02:15:22 2021
From: ackolonges at hotmail.com (ackolonges fds)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 00:15:22 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <9317D8C5-4766-4648-A8E6-C072CDF44F8D@gmail.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
 <9317D8C5-4766-4648-A8E6-C072CDF44F8D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SY3PR01MB1787B0AA601C9C4B00D58A3CD5209@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks a lot to David and Quincas for recommending alternative designs.

I found the Morphlag and DUSG schematics, and they look great, though for my application I was hoping to make 8 of them to try to get that nice polyphonic portamento sound out of my synth, and these designs with separate up and down rates, and exponential/linear control seem a little bit overboard for this... Also, for the Morphlag, I'd still have to add in VC control, which for me would look like the OTA section of the Unipole that I linked, and I'd worry that I'd be stuck with the same issue if I don't understand what the problem is with my current circuit.

Thanks again for the comments - much appreciated, and if anyone has any idea why my built circuits aren't able to achieve the fast glide times of the simulation, I'd love to hear it.

________________________________
From: Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:13 PM
To: ackolonges fds <ackolonges at hotmail.com>
Cc: Synth-Diy mailing list <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit

Can?t beat the Serge DUSG

https://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/cgs/serge/cgs75/cgs75_vcs.html

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 May 2021, at 3:37, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

?
Hi All,

I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg

The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.

I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.

Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend?

Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC glide circuit that is more suitable?

Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.

FALSTAD CIRCUIT
------------------------

$ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
g 48 224 48 240 0 0
R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
w 64 176 96 176 0
r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
w 176 176 176 240 0
a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
g 240 208 240 240 0 0
w 176 176 240 176 0
c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
w 320 192 336 192 0
d 400 192 400 256 2 default
w 336 192 400 192 0
w 176 240 176 272 0
w 176 272 304 272 0
w 304 272 304 256 0
w 304 256 336 256 0
w 336 256 400 256 0
w 400 256 464 256 0
t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
w 464 256 464 240 0
w 432 224 432 192 0
w 432 192 400 192 0
w 464 208 464 144 0
r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
w 464 80 752 80 0
w 752 80 752 320 0
w 768 352 800 352 0
c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
g 800 416 800 432 0 0
w 800 352 848 352 0
r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
w 656 384 656 496 0
w 656 496 672 496 0
a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 0.18007155406906683 100000
w 752 496 864 496 0
w 848 352 912 352 0
w 864 496 864 320 0
w 864 320 912 320 0
w 864 320 864 272 0
w 864 272 992 272 0
w 992 272 992 336 0
r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
g 96 240 96 272 0 0
o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3


[https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg]

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From shedsynth at gmail.com  Sun May 30 10:15:56 2021
From: shedsynth at gmail.com (ShedSynth)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 09:15:56 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?
In-Reply-To: <c5f517ee-cc35-be4d-ba39-e187328bd81b@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <001b01d753e2$8e125780$aa370680$@gmail.com>
 <CAPgGCkJJ2U+VV2QEJGeik0jNzKCoEK-GZM+JNSvwqjz0O=MjYw@mail.gmail.com>
 <c5f517ee-cc35-be4d-ba39-e187328bd81b@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <010f01d7552c$045dd820$0d198860$@gmail.com>

Thank you to everybody for the replies.

I have previously experimented with a 5.1V Zener across Arduino inputs: GATE inputs triggered successfully but CVs appeared not to be read linearly by the analog inputs.
I'll experiment with clamping each input through diodes to a Zener to 0V, if I understood that suggestion correctly.

I'll experiment to measure current through a Zener across 0V and +5V when the module is powered normally.

I hadn't understood the reason for the diodes across voltage regulators.

The use-case is that I have two boxes which share the same 19V DC supply and are normally switched on and off together as a single unit.
I noticed the issue when I switched off the second box to fiddle with a module under test, while it was still connected to the CV from an LFO module in the first box.
To me this seems like a common risk when fiddling, less so when actually playing any music (and for me that ratio is about 90/10%).

I want to mitigate against likely mistakes in the expected range -12V to +12V.

So far I seem to have got away with it, although I'm now trying to remember when and how I broke the voltage regulator in the only Arduino that has failed on me so far - that still works on USB power, not on +12V.

Spotting the issue, and your replies, has helped me understand some fundamentals.
Thank you all again,
Al



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy <synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org> On Behalf Of MTG
Sent: 29 May 2021 17:46
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Will clamping diode work when power is off?

This is a cool idea, but I'm curious about the OP's problem. What's the use-case here where part of the rig is powered? Is this just power-on-off timing situation or is powering part of the system a normal part of using it?


On 5/29/2021 5:10 AM, S Ridley via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> Another option is to invert the gate in the software, use the pin's 
> internal input pull-up and use an npn transistor to switch it to 0v.  
> I suppose current might flow through the BC junction if the power is 
> off, but you'd be using a much higher base resistor on the input so 
> current through that route can be minimised.
> 
> Steve
> 
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May 30 10:27:54 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 10:27:54 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
this is only tangentially synth related, but I believe some of this
applies pretty well to synths as well.

I would like to build a monitor controller for my speakers. They're a
monitoring set which I'm building up for a future mastering studio.


Here's my current setup:

DAC -> preamp -> active line level analog crossover -> 3x power amps -> speakers

I would like to accomplish a few things.

First of all, because the power amps have very high amplification, I
need to insert attenuating pads in front of them. They need to be
after the xo (crossover) but before the power amps; it's because if
the attenuation happens before the crossover, then the crossover's
self noise starts being noticeable. (however, using 48Vpp op amps, it
has a huge dynamic range). So I need to attenuate 6 balanced signals
(later 8, once I change the electronics to 4-way amplification). As a
certain level of attenuation might be good for long term listening,
and meanwhile you might want to listen at higher volumes every now and
then for checking what a song sounds like at high SPL. So I'd like to
build a switchable pad. This is for voltages that are up to 50V. I'm
not sure what to use here: relays, reed switches, or something else? I
don't want to use any semiconductor based system as this is for
mastering, so a) fluctuations in resistance will mean differences in
levels and b) additional distortion is not good.

I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.

Second of all, I'd be looking to build an output switching system for
hooking up the speakers either to the 3-way amplification system, or
to just one of the amplifiers, as a 1-way amplified speaker. This is
to simulate different ways of listening to the music. I understand at
this point, this will require handling of high currents. The largest
of these power amps is able to produce up to 900W. I would most likely
be automatically turning off these amplifiers before re-routing the
outputs, but I understand that any relays or reed switches still need
to be able to handle the current going through them during operation.


I would appreciate any suggestions. What do I use: relays? reed
switches? some sort of mechanized throw switches?

Thanks


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Sun May 30 10:34:12 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 09:34:12 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> 

You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).

You cannot use relays to switch audio.

-- 
Gordonjcp



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Sun May 30 10:48:02 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 01:48:02 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB1787B0AA601C9C4B00D58A3CD5209@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>,
 <9317D8C5-4766-4648-A8E6-C072CDF44F8D@gmail.com>
 <SY3PR01MB1787B0AA601C9C4B00D58A3CD5209@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <807B612BC1494306B4EF3E5E82FB3CCA@david78c70950b>

I added VC to Morphlag with the 2164 VCA -- it was pretty straightforward.

  _____  

From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of ackolonges fds via Synth-diy
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 5:15 PM
To: Quincas Moreira
Cc: Synth-Diy mailing list
Subject: Re: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit


[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]	
Thanks a lot to David and Quincas for recommending alternative designs.

I found the Morphlag and DUSG schematics, and they look great, though for my application I was hoping to make 8 of them to try to get that nice polyphonic portamento sound out of my synth, and these designs with separate up and down rates, and exponential/linear control seem a little bit overboard for this... Also, for the Morphlag, I'd still have to add in VC control, which for me would look like the OTA section of the Unipole that I linked, and I'd worry that I'd be stuck with the same issue if I don't understand what the problem is with my current circuit. 


Thanks again for the comments - much appreciated, and if anyone has any idea why my built circuits aren't able to achieve the fast glide times of the simulation, I'd love to hear it.


  _____  

From: Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:13 PM
To: ackolonges fds <ackolonges at hotmail.com>
Cc: Synth-Diy mailing list <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
Subject: Re: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit 
 
Can?t beat the Serge DUSG 

https://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/cgs/serge/cgs75/cgs75_vcs.html


Sent from my iPhone


On 29 May 2021, at 3:37, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:



? 
Hi All,

I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg


The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.

I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.


Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend? 


Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC glide circuit that is more suitable?

Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.

FALSTAD CIRCUIT
------------------------


$ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11 
174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
g 48 224 48 240 0 0
R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
w 64 176 96 176 0
r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
w 176 176 176 240 0
a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
g 240 208 240 240 0 0
w 176 176 240 176 0
c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
w 320 192 336 192 0
d 400 192 400 256 2 default
w 336 192 400 192 0
w 176 240 176 272 0
w 176 272 304 272 0
w 304 272 304 256 0
w 304 256 336 256 0
w 336 256 400 256 0
w 400 256 464 256 0
t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
w 464 256 464 240 0
w 432 224 432 192 0
w 432 192 400 192 0
w 464 208 464 144 0
r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
w 464 80 752 80 0
w 752 80 752 320 0
w 768 352 800 352 0
c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
g 800 416 800 432 0 0
w 800 352 848 352 0
r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
w 656 384 656 496 0
w 656 496 672 496 0
a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 0.18007155406906683 100000
w 752 496 864 496 0
w 848 352 912 352 0
w 864 496 864 320 0
w 864 320 912 320 0
w 864 320 864 272 0
w 864 272 992 272 0
w 992 272 992 336 0
r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
g 96 240 96 272 0 0
o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3



  <https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg> 

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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May 30 11:22:38 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 11:22:38 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>

Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?

BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
proofing foam.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:37 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> >
> > I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> > efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> > Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> > work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> >
>
> You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).
>
> You cannot use relays to switch audio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May 30 11:49:52 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 09:49:52 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <h1vmb28keest4i1a9n3qs072.1622368188841@email.android.com>

I've used thousands of relays to switch audio and higher frequencies in my designs over 50 years.  They have zero loss and no crosstalk.


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: Gordonjcp
Date:30/05/2021 09:35 (GMT+00:00)
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
>
> I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
>

You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).

You cannot use relays to switch audio.

--
Gordonjcp

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May 30 11:54:24 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 09:54:24 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>,
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <x84oga9hp326xbvgi149fiac.1622368460795@email.android.com>

Look for relays in a cylindrical case with wire legs.  I think West in g house used to make them.  Already silent,  though more expensive.   We used them for all audio and r.f. switching at BP.


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: cheater cheater via Synth-diy
Date:30/05/2021 10:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: Gordonjcp
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?

BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
proofing foam.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:37 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> >
> > I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> > efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> > Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> > work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> >
>
> You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).
>
> You cannot use relays to switch audio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May 30 12:02:04 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 10:02:04 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <x84oga9hp326xbvgi149fiac.1622368460795@email.android.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>,
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <x84oga9hp326xbvgi149fiac.1622368460795@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <akdd2cb5up9pguvffk5xut25.1622368921284@email.android.com>

That should have said HP
 My temporary phone has an insane autocorrect feature.


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: Mike Bryant
Date:30/05/2021 10:55 (GMT+00:00)
To: cheater cheater , Gordonjcp
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

Look for relays in a cylindrical case with wire legs.  I think West in g house used to make them.  Already silent,  though more expensive.   We used them for all audio and r.f. switching at BP.


Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: cheater cheater via Synth-diy
Date:30/05/2021 10:25 (GMT+00:00)
To: Gordonjcp
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?

BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
proofing foam.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:37 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> >
> > I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> > efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> > Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> > work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> >
>
> You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).
>
> You cannot use relays to switch audio.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org

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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Sun May 30 12:19:44 2021
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 12:19:44 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB1787B0AA601C9C4B00D58A3CD5209@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
 <9317D8C5-4766-4648-A8E6-C072CDF44F8D@gmail.com>
 <SY3PR01MB1787B0AA601C9C4B00D58A3CD5209@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <e342fdfe-6899-dab5-513d-5271cf12cfba@schmitzbits.de>

On 30.05.2021 02:15, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy wrote:
> Thanks a lot to David and Quincas for recommending alternative designs.
>
> I found the Morphlag and DUSG schematics, and they look great, though 
> for my application I was hoping to make 8 of them to try to get that 
> nice polyphonic portamento sound out of my synth, and these designs 
> with separate up and down rates, and exponential/linear control seem a 
> little bit overboard for this... Also, for the Morphlag, I'd still 
> have to add in VC control, which for me would look like the OTA 
> section of the Unipole that I linked, and I'd worry that I'd be stuck 
> with the same issue if I don't understand what the problem is with my 
> current circuit.
>
> Thanks again for the comments - much appreciated, and if anyone has 
> any idea why my built circuits aren't able to achieve the fast glide 
> times of the simulation, I'd love to hear it.
>


It's just a wild guess, but R3 does delimit the maximum current that 
flows into the Iabc pin. Maybe go a bit lower 6.8k or so.

Are you running it on 15V as well? As a change in supply voltage will 
bring the maximum control current down also.

However these effects should not account for the big difference you see.


Have you measured the control current properly, i.e. with a meter in 
series to confirm the current source is working as expected?


Your current source maybe is oscillating. You should check that with a 
scope. To dampen, I would place a 1k resistor between the cap C2 and 
diode D1.



Best,
 ?Ren?



> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Quincas Moreira <quincas at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 29, 2021 9:13 PM
> *To:* ackolonges fds <ackolonges at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* Synth-Diy mailing list <synth-diy at synth-diy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
> Can?t beat the Serge DUSG
>
> https://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/cgs/serge/cgs75/cgs75_vcs.html 
> <https://www.elby-designs.com/webtek/cgs/serge/cgs75/cgs75_vcs.html>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 29 May 2021, at 3:37, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy 
>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so 
>> I searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 
>> 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at 
>> https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg 
>> <https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg>
>>
>> The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal 
>> slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit 
>> Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even 
>> faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.
>>
>> I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, 
>> bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the 
>> fastest I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV 
>> input together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms 
>> over 10V.
>>
>> Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts 
>> faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a 
>> different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend?
>>
>> Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having 
>> trouble getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a 
>> few times with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a 
>> different VC glide circuit that is more suitable?
>>
>> Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.
>>
>> FALSTAD CIRCUIT
>> ------------------------
>>
>> $ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
>> 174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
>> g 48 224 48 240 0 0
>> R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
>> w 64 176 96 176 0
>> r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
>> r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
>> w 176 176 176 240 0
>> a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
>> g 240 208 240 240 0 0
>> w 176 176 240 176 0
>> c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
>> w 320 192 336 192 0
>> d 400 192 400 256 2 default
>> w 336 192 400 192 0
>> w 176 240 176 272 0
>> w 176 272 304 272 0
>> w 304 272 304 256 0
>> w 304 256 336 256 0
>> w 336 256 400 256 0
>> w 400 256 464 256 0
>> t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
>> w 464 256 464 240 0
>> w 432 224 432 192 0
>> w 432 192 400 192 0
>> w 464 208 464 144 0
>> r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
>> 402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 
>> 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 
>> 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
>> r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
>> R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
>> w 464 80 752 80 0
>> w 752 80 752 320 0
>> w 768 352 800 352 0
>> c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
>> g 800 416 800 432 0 0
>> w 800 352 848 352 0
>> r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
>> w 656 384 656 496 0
>> w 656 496 672 496 0
>> a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 
>> 0.18007155406906683 100000
>> w 752 496 864 496 0
>> w 848 352 912 352 0
>> w 864 496 864 320 0
>> w 864 320 912 320 0
>> w 864 320 864 272 0
>> w 864 272 992 272 0
>> w 992 272 992 336 0
>> r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
>> g 96 240 96 272 0 0
>> o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
>> o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


-- 
--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de

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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May 30 13:53:40 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 13:53:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <akdd2cb5up9pguvffk5xut25.1622368921284@email.android.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <x84oga9hp326xbvgi149fiac.1622368460795@email.android.com>
 <akdd2cb5up9pguvffk5xut25.1622368921284@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--Xsi8bEQCkE+1cjFEjpaULegRw2HhOo5dZFsTQzhgSww@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Mike, I didn't realize you had worked at HP. What were you
doing there, and during what years, if I may ask?

Best regards

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 12:02 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> That should have said HP
>  My temporary phone has an insane autocorrect feature.
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mike Bryant
> Date:30/05/2021 10:55 (GMT+00:00)
> To: cheater cheater , Gordonjcp
> Cc: synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
>
> Look for relays in a cylindrical case with wire legs.  I think West in g house used to make them.  Already silent,  though more expensive.   We used them for all audio and r.f. switching at BP.
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: cheater cheater via Synth-diy
> Date:30/05/2021 10:25 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Gordonjcp
> Cc: synth-diy
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
>
> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
>
> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
> proofing foam.
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:37 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 10:27:54AM +0200, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> > > efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> > > Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> > > work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> > >
> >
> > You probably want to go with analogue switches or even just VCAs (you'll need to ensure they track correctly, but small errors will not be noticeable).
> >
> > You cannot use relays to switch audio.
> >
> > --
> > Gordonjcp
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Sun May 30 16:48:10 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 10:48:10 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>

Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
keyboards.

When I switched to Mac, my only beef was the keyboard that ships with
them.  I was never happy with the feel and they're more prone to
typos.  Fine with auto-correct, but not good when developing software.
They also were a risk with RSI which I have had years ago.  I really
wanted a Mac keyboard with the feel of the old IBM keyboard.

I learned that Unicomp - who acquired the technology and tools to make
those IBM keyboards - still makes a similar keyboard, and they make
one for Mac computers.  It's called the Spacesaver M.  I ordered one
and it is very similar to the old IBM keyboard.  Only downside is it
is currently only available in black (most peripherals are black only,
big deal).  I make far less typos than the Mac keyboard, and it feels
the same to my old IBM keyboard.  Not cheap at $105 but well worth the
money.

MC


From recompas at gmail.com  Sun May 30 16:59:52 2021
From: recompas at gmail.com (Travis Thatcher)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 10:59:52 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>

As a former programmer and current nerd I?ve long been a fan of the IBM Model M keyboards. I have an old one setup at work w my Mac laptop and I love it. Plus, it?s an easy way to let every know you are doing work! 

The vintage space saving ones go for stupid money. Does anyone know of any uses of these sort of key switches in synth/seq gear ever? While not the same I always loved the keys on the Yamaha SU700 for similar reasons.

> On May 30, 2021, at 10:50, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
> like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
> computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
> work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
> keyboards.
> 
> When I switched to Mac, my only beef was the keyboard that ships with
> them.  I was never happy with the feel and they're more prone to
> typos.  Fine with auto-correct, but not good when developing software.
> They also were a risk with RSI which I have had years ago.  I really
> wanted a Mac keyboard with the feel of the old IBM keyboard.
> 
> I learned that Unicomp - who acquired the technology and tools to make
> those IBM keyboards - still makes a similar keyboard, and they make
> one for Mac computers.  It's called the Spacesaver M.  I ordered one
> and it is very similar to the old IBM keyboard.  Only downside is it
> is currently only available in black (most peripherals are black only,
> big deal).  I make far less typos than the Mac keyboard, and it feels
> the same to my old IBM keyboard.  Not cheap at $105 but well worth the
> money.
> 
> MC
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From metadata at gmx.com  Sun May 30 19:21:13 2021
From: metadata at gmx.com (Neil Harper)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 13:21:13 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
Message-ID: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>

I recently breadboarded this tilt equalizer filter as found on EDN:

https://www.edn.com/implement-an-audio-frequency-tilt-equalizer-filter/

A similar (the same?) circuit is shown here:
https://sound-au.com/articles/eq.htm#s10

It's pretty cool, low parts count and can sound interesting - i'm kinda
digging it to eq an fx for sample.

of course my next question was "how can I get this under voltage control"?

here's what I plan to try, maybe you can steer me in the right direction.

my first guess was to replace the potentiometer (P1) with two
vactrols/LDRs, but I'm not sure how to basically 'crossfade' the two
vactrols in opposite directions and I think the response curves of the
vactrols with regard to voltage input (light) and resistance are far
from linear.

i've read that OTA's like the LM13700 (the monty python chip) can be
used as voltage controlled resistors, but I've never seen them
implemented as a pair replacing a potentiometer - so I don't know if
that route is possible either.

my last guess was wondering if an equivalent circuit could be made by
combining a lowpassed and hipassed audio signal and then crossfading
them. I can imagine it would somewhat similar, but I'm not sure if you
would get the same totally flat frequency response in the middle setting.



--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks



From vladoman at gmail.com  Sun May 30 20:48:04 2021
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 20:48:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6bb3bcf3-52e9-821f-5236-c5743f45b4b9@gmail.com>

I have four, one each at home and at the office and a hot spare in each location :)




On 30/05/2021 16:59, Travis Thatcher via Synth-diy wrote:
> As a former programmer and current nerd I?ve long been a fan of the IBM Model M keyboards. I have an old one setup at work w my Mac laptop and I love it. Plus, it?s an easy way to let every know you are doing work!
> 
> The vintage space saving ones go for stupid money. Does anyone know of any uses of these sort of key switches in synth/seq gear ever? While not the same I always loved the keys on the Yamaha SU700 for similar reasons.
> 
>> On May 30, 2021, at 10:50, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>
>> ?Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
>> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
>> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
>> like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
>> computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
>> work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
>> keyboards.
>>
>> When I switched to Mac, my only beef was the keyboard that ships with
>> them.  I was never happy with the feel and they're more prone to
>> typos.  Fine with auto-correct, but not good when developing software.
>> They also were a risk with RSI which I have had years ago.  I really
>> wanted a Mac keyboard with the feel of the old IBM keyboard.
>>
>> I learned that Unicomp - who acquired the technology and tools to make
>> those IBM keyboards - still makes a similar keyboard, and they make
>> one for Mac computers.  It's called the Spacesaver M.  I ordered one
>> and it is very similar to the old IBM keyboard.  Only downside is it
>> is currently only available in black (most peripherals are black only,
>> big deal).  I make far less typos than the Mac keyboard, and it feels
>> the same to my old IBM keyboard.  Not cheap at $105 but well worth the
>> money.
>>
>> MC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Sun May 30 20:49:26 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 18:49:26 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <3c8807d3ffd94894a62573f3b98970fa@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>


I think your final suggestion is the most likely to succeed well.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Neil Harper via Synth-diy
Sent: 30 May 2021 18:21
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?

I recently breadboarded this tilt equalizer filter as found on EDN:

https://www.edn.com/implement-an-audio-frequency-tilt-equalizer-filter/

A similar (the same?) circuit is shown here:
https://sound-au.com/articles/eq.htm#s10

It's pretty cool, low parts count and can sound interesting - i'm kinda digging it to eq an fx for sample.

of course my next question was "how can I get this under voltage control"?

here's what I plan to try, maybe you can steer me in the right direction.

my first guess was to replace the potentiometer (P1) with two vactrols/LDRs, but I'm not sure how to basically 'crossfade' the two vactrols in opposite directions and I think the response curves of the vactrols with regard to voltage input (light) and resistance are far from linear.

i've read that OTA's like the LM13700 (the monty python chip) can be used as voltage controlled resistors, but I've never seen them implemented as a pair replacing a potentiometer - so I don't know if that route is possible either.

my last guess was wondering if an equivalent circuit could be made by combining a lowpassed and hipassed audio signal and then crossfading them. I can imagine it would somewhat similar, but I'm not sure if you would get the same totally flat frequency response in the middle setting.



--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks

_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May 30 22:47:22 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 22:47:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>

I might be missing something - what's the functional difference
between this and a pair of shelving equalizers with opposite control
from a single potentiometer?

(parts count is not a functional difference)

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:25 PM Neil Harper via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> I recently breadboarded this tilt equalizer filter as found on EDN:
>
> https://www.edn.com/implement-an-audio-frequency-tilt-equalizer-filter/
>
> A similar (the same?) circuit is shown here:
> https://sound-au.com/articles/eq.htm#s10
>
> It's pretty cool, low parts count and can sound interesting - i'm kinda
> digging it to eq an fx for sample.
>
> of course my next question was "how can I get this under voltage control"?
>
> here's what I plan to try, maybe you can steer me in the right direction.
>
> my first guess was to replace the potentiometer (P1) with two
> vactrols/LDRs, but I'm not sure how to basically 'crossfade' the two
> vactrols in opposite directions and I think the response curves of the
> vactrols with regard to voltage input (light) and resistance are far
> from linear.
>
> i've read that OTA's like the LM13700 (the monty python chip) can be
> used as voltage controlled resistors, but I've never seen them
> implemented as a pair replacing a potentiometer - so I don't know if
> that route is possible either.
>
> my last guess was wondering if an equivalent circuit could be made by
> combining a lowpassed and hipassed audio signal and then crossfading
> them. I can imagine it would somewhat similar, but I'm not sure if you
> would get the same totally flat frequency response in the middle setting.
>
>
>
> --
> /// Neil Harper
> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Sun May 30 22:54:27 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 22:54:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <6bb3bcf3-52e9-821f-5236-c5743f45b4b9@gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>
 <6bb3bcf3-52e9-821f-5236-c5743f45b4b9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--Ba6fL2FWeb2F-ikRsCu-uiYVOfgypqujfv7BwDMxvGQ@mail.gmail.com>

As someone who has multiple vintage model M's in good nick, as well as
Model F's, and a nearly unused Beam Spring keyboard (apparently
replaced for a spare while it still was in the data center), I still
use my Cherry MX Blue keyboard daily. IMO the M and F just don't
really compare, the shafts just bind a lot even in perfect condition.
The tactility is nice, but the slight binding kills it for me, and the
MX Blue still has a bunch of nice tactility without the annoying
binding. I don't know, maybe I'm using the IBMs wrong. Maybe they're
supposed to be lubed up. My next keyboard will be using Kailh Box Navy
switches which are way more tactile.

I've recently posted a thread asking if anyone considered using
keyboard style switches for music keyboards, but no one picked it up.
I think having a nice tactile response at the end of a key's travel
(or conversely at the beginning) could be pretty cool. And also, some
switches have hall capability now, as well as other analog sensing
methods.

Best regards

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 8:51 PM Vladimir Pantelic via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> I have four, one each at home and at the office and a hot spare in each location :)
>
>
>
>
> On 30/05/2021 16:59, Travis Thatcher via Synth-diy wrote:
> > As a former programmer and current nerd I?ve long been a fan of the IBM Model M keyboards. I have an old one setup at work w my Mac laptop and I love it. Plus, it?s an easy way to let every know you are doing work!
> >
> > The vintage space saving ones go for stupid money. Does anyone know of any uses of these sort of key switches in synth/seq gear ever? While not the same I always loved the keys on the Yamaha SU700 for similar reasons.
> >
> >> On May 30, 2021, at 10:50, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
> >> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
> >> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
> >> like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
> >> computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
> >> work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
> >> keyboards.
> >>
> >> When I switched to Mac, my only beef was the keyboard that ships with
> >> them.  I was never happy with the feel and they're more prone to
> >> typos.  Fine with auto-correct, but not good when developing software.
> >> They also were a risk with RSI which I have had years ago.  I really
> >> wanted a Mac keyboard with the feel of the old IBM keyboard.
> >>
> >> I learned that Unicomp - who acquired the technology and tools to make
> >> those IBM keyboards - still makes a similar keyboard, and they make
> >> one for Mac computers.  It's called the Spacesaver M.  I ordered one
> >> and it is very similar to the old IBM keyboard.  Only downside is it
> >> is currently only available in black (most peripherals are black only,
> >> big deal).  I make far less typos than the Mac keyboard, and it feels
> >> the same to my old IBM keyboard.  Not cheap at $105 but well worth the
> >> money.
> >>
> >> MC
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Sun May 30 23:28:35 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 22:28:35 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>

 Michael E Caloroso wrote:

> Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
> like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
> computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
> work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
> keyboards.
>

Nice keyboards. At work some years ago we got into clicky keyboards.  I
went for this one:
https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html

Click Click click ...

Neil

>
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From metadata at gmx.com  Sun May 30 23:53:45 2021
From: metadata at gmx.com (Neil Harper)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 17:53:45 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>



On 5/30/21 4:47 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> I might be missing something - what's the functional difference
> between this and a pair of shelving equalizers with opposite control
> from a single potentiometer?
>
> (parts count is not a functional difference)

if there exists a voltage-controlled shelving EQ, then you might be on
to a path to solve this by ganging two up as you describe..


--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks



From eidorian at aladan.net  Mon May 31 00:45:08 2021
From: eidorian at aladan.net (Adrian Corston)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 08:15:08 +0930
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f495afc4-2210-2560-bc12-c5abde154672@aladan.net>

If it don't clack, send it back.


On 31/05/2021 6:58 am, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:
> ?Michael E Caloroso wrote:
>
>     Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
>     keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
>     on the joints.? They were great for work involving frequent typing
>     like documentation and software development.? When I threw out my PS/2
>     computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.? I could
>     work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
>     keyboards.
>
>
> Nice keyboards. At work some years ago we got into clicky keyboards.? 
> I went for this one:
> https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html 
> <https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html>
>
> Click Click click ...
>
> Neil
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 01:23:55 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 23:23:55 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <f495afc4-2210-2560-bc12-c5abde154672@aladan.net>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f495afc4-2210-2560-bc12-c5abde154672@aladan.net>
Message-ID: <2c462b108ac14638b66d879239546809@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

No !   I remember for some reason we got a single IBM PC into the lab at HP which the keyboard made a racket in the open-plan office.  Fortunately HP released the Vectra some time later which had a much better tactile feel and was quiet !


From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Corston
Sent: 30 May 2021 23:45
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM


If it don't clack, send it back.


On 31/05/2021 6:58 am, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:
 Michael E Caloroso wrote:
Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
keyboards.

Nice keyboards. At work some years ago we got into clicky keyboards.  I went for this one:
https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html

Click Click click ...

Neil



_______________________________________________

Synth-diy mailing list

Synth-diy at synth-diy.org<mailto:Synth-diy at synth-diy.org>

http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy

Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org<mailto:marketplace at synth-diy.org>
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From ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com  Mon May 31 01:55:11 2021
From: ben.pi.bradley at gmail.com (Ben Bradley)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 19:55:11 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <2c462b108ac14638b66d879239546809@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <f495afc4-2210-2560-bc12-c5abde154672@aladan.net>
 <2c462b108ac14638b66d879239546809@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wjhVsPfiNgXOF4kM1Q7puGc=4mLLWmM5nx=H1Tu1g60WrNNg@mail.gmail.com>

Don't modern Macs have USB ports? You can get a PS/2 to USB converter
for cheap, then use an original Model M keyboard with a Mac. I don't
know how or if all the keys map. I use one on my Windows machines, the
program menu comes up with ctrl-esc instead of the Windows key.

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:25 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> No !   I remember for some reason we got a single IBM PC into the lab at HP which the keyboard made a racket in the open-plan office.  Fortunately HP released the Vectra some time later which had a much better tactile feel and was quiet !
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Corston
> Sent: 30 May 2021 23:45
> To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> Subject: Re: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
>
>
>
> If it don't clack, send it back.
>
>
>
> On 31/05/2021 6:58 am, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:
>
>  Michael E Caloroso wrote:
>
> Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
> like documentation and software development.  When I threw out my PS/2
> computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.  I could
> work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
> keyboards.
>
>
>
> Nice keyboards. At work some years ago we got into clicky keyboards.  I went for this one:
>
> https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html
>
>
>
> Click Click click ...
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Synth-diy mailing list
>
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From colindorward at gmail.com  Mon May 31 05:28:41 2021
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 20:28:41 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>

Is this tilt circuit the same as a Baxeandall EQ?

For VC shelving you could dig into the mutable instruments files. Olivier
has one using 2164 VCA chips. Might be called the "shelves" module.

As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase problems
and get a bit of notch filtering, no?

C


On Sun, May 30, 2021, 2:57 PM Neil Harper via Synth-diy, <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 5/30/21 4:47 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> > I might be missing something - what's the functional difference
> > between this and a pair of shelving equalizers with opposite control
> > from a single potentiometer?
> >
> > (parts count is not a functional difference)
>
> if there exists a voltage-controlled shelving EQ, then you might be on
> to a path to solve this by ganging two up as you describe..
>
>
> --
> /// Neil Harper
> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From ka4hjh at gmail.com  Mon May 31 05:33:56 2021
From: ka4hjh at gmail.com (Terry Bowman)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 23:33:56 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A63F1842-D950-4D45-A017-4FAF84A5FE54@gmail.com>


> On May 30, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> When I switched to Mac, my only beef was the keyboard that ships with
> them.  I was never happy with the feel and they're more prone to
> typos.  Fine with auto-correct, but not good when developing software.
> They also were a risk with RSI which I have had years ago.  I really
> wanted a Mac keyboard with the feel of the old IBM keyboard.

My Apple ][+ has the classic ALPS key-switches. Being a touch typist it's still once of the best keyboards I've ever used. Over about four years I had to replace five of them and they weren't cheap.

When I bought my LCIII in 1993 I paid $50 extra for the legendary Apple Extended II keyboard. I enjoyed that luxury until Apple removed the ADB connector from new Macs and started shipping mushy keyboards that were utter crap. The first thing I did when I got my MDD G4 was to buy a cheap third-party keyboard that was only half crap. My Early 2009 iMac which came with that very pretty and utterly unusable laptop keyboard, the one they're still using today. I continued to use the cheap keyboard until something better came along...

> I learned that Unicomp - who acquired the technology and tools to make
> those IBM keyboards - still makes a similar keyboard, and they make
> one for Mac computers.  It's called the Spacesaver M.  I ordered one
> and it is very similar to the old IBM keyboard.  Only downside is it
> is currently only available in black (most peripherals are black only,
> big deal).  I make far less typos than the Mac keyboard, and it feels
> the same to my old IBM keyboard.  Not cheap at $105 but well worth the
> money.

There are a number of "clicky" keyboards available but I rely on Matias now. They offer a variety with different key-switches but for that classic ALPS feel I use the Tactile Pro:

http://www.matias.ca/tactilepro/


$149 retail, sells for $139. The downside is that there's no back-lit version in black.


Here's a comparison of the Matias reproduction ALPS switches vs. the second-best thing, Cherry:

https://matias.ca/switches/click/


I have two of those old ADB keyboards sitting here in the hoard...


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com

?...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.??Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980


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From grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com  Mon May 31 05:39:20 2021
From: grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com (MTG)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 20:39:20 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--Ba6fL2FWeb2F-ikRsCu-uiYVOfgypqujfv7BwDMxvGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>
 <6bb3bcf3-52e9-821f-5236-c5743f45b4b9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V--Ba6fL2FWeb2F-ikRsCu-uiYVOfgypqujfv7BwDMxvGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f8b455b7-e568-b236-4869-92ccc88ea014@musictechnologiesgroup.com>


On 5/30/2021 1:54 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> I've recently posted a thread asking if anyone considered using
> keyboard style switches for music keyboards, but no one picked it up.
> I think having a nice tactile response at the end of a key's travel
> (or conversely at the beginning) could be pretty cool. And also, some
> switches have hall capability now, as well as other analog sensing
> methods.

Not sure about Cherry, but I'm sure there are found somewhere in synth 
land. I have seen Alps, but I can't recall where ... I'm thinking an old 
drum machine maybe.


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 31 09:20:14 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 09:20:14 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <f8b455b7-e568-b236-4869-92ccc88ea014@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <FDC693D1-76D8-4D99-8677-16F5E962EA50@gmail.com>
 <6bb3bcf3-52e9-821f-5236-c5743f45b4b9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V--Ba6fL2FWeb2F-ikRsCu-uiYVOfgypqujfv7BwDMxvGQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <f8b455b7-e568-b236-4869-92ccc88ea014@musictechnologiesgroup.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-8Z0i3fv5nw7WoH1sKfu-T7Cnt5Z7S43Zzn2DKg_PN4ng@mail.gmail.com>

I'm thinking as tactile elements under the synth keyboard

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 5:43 AM MTG <grant at musictechnologiesgroup.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 5/30/2021 1:54 PM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> >
> > I've recently posted a thread asking if anyone considered using
> > keyboard style switches for music keyboards, but no one picked it up.
> > I think having a nice tactile response at the end of a key's travel
> > (or conversely at the beginning) could be pretty cool. And also, some
> > switches have hall capability now, as well as other analog sensing
> > methods.
>
> Not sure about Cherry, but I'm sure there are found somewhere in synth
> land. I have seen Alps, but I can't recall where ... I'm thinking an old
> drum machine maybe.
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From synth at schmitzbits.de  Mon May 31 10:17:48 2021
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:17:48 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b03a1556-264e-7b6d-ce81-ccb30e75ded5@schmitzbits.de>

On 30.05.2021 23:28, Neil Johnson via Synth-diy wrote:
> ?Michael E Caloroso wrote:
>
>     Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
>     keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
>     on the joints.? They were great for work involving frequent typing
>     like documentation and software development.? When I threw out my PS/2
>     computer I kept the keyboard for my other Windows computers.? I could
>     work for hours on them and never have RSI problems, unlike newer
>     keyboards.
>
>
> Nice keyboards. At work some years ago we got into clicky keyboards.? 
> I went for this one:
> https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html 
> <https://www.njohnson.co.uk/page/f122.html>
>
> Click Click click ...
>
They look similar to the keyboards used on mainframe terminals on an IBM 
System 370.

I remember some terminals that had the ability to lock the keys. I.e. 
you would feel when

your input wasn't accepted. (Because your cursor was in the weeds.) A 
bit like a jammed typewriter.


Best,

 ?Ren?


--
synth at schmitzbits.de
http://schmitzbits.de

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From vladoman at gmail.com  Mon May 31 10:31:41 2021
From: vladoman at gmail.com (Vladimir Pantelic)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:31:41 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <b03a1556-264e-7b6d-ce81-ccb30e75ded5@schmitzbits.de>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b03a1556-264e-7b6d-ce81-ccb30e75ded5@schmitzbits.de>
Message-ID: <b87b8f0d-2135-20c9-609c-0d8f12ff7c1e@gmail.com>

On 31.05.21 10:17, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
>
> They look similar to the keyboards used on mainframe terminals on an IBM
> System 370.

yes, that's the keyboard my Mom had at work, together with an IBM 3270
terminal. as a kid I was impressed that it had F1 - F12 and PF1 - PF24 :)

And separate RETURN (as in next line) and ENTER (send the form to the
mainframe) keys.

when she had to use my PC to work from home she asked me where my ENTER
(send form) key was - eventually we found out it was mapped to F3 for
measly PC users...


From guy.mccusker at gmail.com  Mon May 31 11:01:41 2021
From: guy.mccusker at gmail.com (Guy McCusker)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:01:41 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPx-PW6W-EdtuFAm8ex7kNooVssUCXoamcC=3QRD1RLpEVxUXw@mail.gmail.com>

Seems odd that this simple circuit isn't working as intended. I'm not sure
how adept you are at troubleshooting so for what it's worth here is how I
would start approaching this. Apologies if this is telling you things you
already know.

The basic setup should be that CV generates a current (via the input
resistors), which is fed into the OTA control pin, and that same amount of
current comes out of the OTA output, into the capacitor which integrates
it, giving the slew ramp. When slewing in the other direction the OTA sinks
the current rather than sourcing it. The OTA is driven hard by the
input voltages so for most of the time the current into or out of the
output pin is equal to the control current.

I'd look at the circuit in two parts: the part that turns CV into current
that goes to the OTA, and the OTA output/integrator.

First check that the expected current is being fed to the OTA control pin.
You can do this by measuring the voltage across the input resistors R4 and
R5, and calculating the current flowing there (add the two currents), and
then the voltage across R3, and calculate the current there. If the two
figures you get are not the same or very close, something is wrong in that
section. Transistor pinout would be one thing to look at.

If the control current checks out, then you need to look at the post-OTA
section. That's not so easy to do without reworking the circuit a bit --
maybe someone else has a suggestion for how to verify the OTA's output
current and take a look around the integration section.

Maybe this gets you started, or maybe it's tedious stuff you have already
thought about!

Guy.


On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 9:38 AM ackolonges fds via Synth-diy <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I
> searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 'Unopole',
> - circuit diagram at
> https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg
>
> The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal
> slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit Simulator
> (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even faster. However,
> when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.
>
> I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, bringing
> down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest I'm able to
> get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input together) is about
> 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.
>
> Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts faltering.
> I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a different type of
> cap? If so, which would you recommend?
>
> Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble
> getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times
> with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC glide
> circuit that is more suitable?
>
> Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.
>
> FALSTAD CIRCUIT
> ------------------------
>
> $ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
> 174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
> g 48 224 48 240 0 0
> R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
> w 64 176 96 176 0
> r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
> r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
> w 176 176 176 240 0
> a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
> g 240 208 240 240 0 0
> w 176 176 240 176 0
> c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
> w 320 192 336 192 0
> d 400 192 400 256 2 default
> w 336 192 400 192 0
> w 176 240 176 272 0
> w 176 272 304 272 0
> w 304 272 304 256 0
> w 304 256 336 256 0
> w 336 256 400 256 0
> w 400 256 464 256 0
> t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
> w 464 256 464 240 0
> w 432 224 432 192 0
> w 432 192 400 192 0
> w 464 208 464 144 0
> r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
> 402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5
> 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault
> 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault
> 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
> r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
> R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
> w 464 80 752 80 0
> w 752 80 752 320 0
> w 768 352 800 352 0
> c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
> g 800 416 800 432 0 0
> w 800 352 848 352 0
> r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
> w 656 384 656 496 0
> w 656 496 672 496 0
> a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 0.18007155406906683
> 100000
> w 752 496 864 496 0
> w 848 352 912 352 0
> w 864 496 864 320 0
> w 864 320 912 320 0
> w 864 320 864 272 0
> w 864 272 992 272 0
> w 992 272 992 336 0
> r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
> g 96 240 96 272 0 0
> o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
> o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk  Mon May 31 11:56:11 2021
From: rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk (Richie Burnett)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:56:11 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D20202653DF407B8B170D679323923C@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>

Crossfading between the outputs of a 1st order low-pass filter and 1st order 
high-pass filter (both with fc=1kHz) gives the responses shown in TILT1.PNG 
attached.  Whilst it does approximate a "tilt" response, it's probably not 
quite what you want.  There are no phase cancellation or notches provided 
neither of the two filters inverts the signal, and they add to a perfectly 
flat "wire" when they're mixed in equal amounts, but the centre of the 
response drifts to the left and the right as the mixing ratio is changed. 
It doesn't always cross 0dB at the same place.

The correct tilt response is shown in TILT2.PNG.  Notice how the frequency 
response stays centred around the middle of the audio band and always 
crosses 0dB at 1kHz in this example.  In order to get this response the 
positions of the poles and zeros in the filters have to move.  (This is 
unlike the previous example where both filters had fixed 1kHz cutoff 
frequencies.)  When the pole and the zero are both at 1kHz they cancel each 
other out and the resulting response is flat.  Move the pole down below 
1kHz, and the zero up by the corresponding amount and you get a tilted 
response with LF boost followed by HF cut.  Conversely, if the zero comes 
first you get a response with LF cut followed by HF boost.  That is how I 
generated those response curves.  Mathematically.  With no thought to what 
hardware is needed to implement the transfer functions!

So, you can get a kind of tilt response just by mixing the outputs from 
1-pole LPF and HPF but it will move from side-to-side which might or might 
not be acceptable for your application.  To get a perfect balanced response 
will take something a bit more clever.

Hope this helps,

-Richie,


> Neil Harper wrote:
>
> my last guess was wondering if an equivalent circuit could be made by 
> combining a lowpassed and hipassed audio signal and then crossfading them. 
> I can imagine it would somewhat similar, but I'm not sure if you would get 
> the same totally flat frequency response in the middle setting.


> ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>
> As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase 
> problems and get a bit of notch filtering, no?


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
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From modular at go2.pl  Mon May 31 12:11:46 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 12:11:46 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>

Luxury squared!

back in my early days we had to travel by bus to various distant parts 
of the town and visit all 7 electronic stores to find something remotely 
working like needed part, and most of all looking for parts not needed 
now but surprisingly available. I learned to come up with circuit ideas 
on the spot when I saw a component that I haven't seen before in any shop.

On rare ocasions I used to ride several hundred km to visit yet another 
stores. There were really good ones, people from entire country went 
there, and they were always crowded.

I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had 
no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-29 o?00:11, Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy pisze:
> Luxury!
> 
> Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill 
> out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.
> 
> On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>> Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can 
>> type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search 
>> results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
>>
>> This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in 
>> a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting 
>> (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
>>
>> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on 
>> it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, 
>> incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least 
>> they're moving in the right direction.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>> On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - 
>>> selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow 
>>> it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by 
>>> the price at any quantity other than 1.
>>>
>>> Roman
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From modular at go2.pl  Mon May 31 12:19:50 2021
From: modular at go2.pl (Roman Sowa)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 12:19:50 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] VC Glide Circuit
In-Reply-To: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SY3PR01MB17872670179921BE905D6098D5219@SY3PR01MB1787.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2687917c-60a4-01f1-b37e-eca953df75df@go2.pl>

My wild guess is that you had put 100k resistor instead of 10k as R4 by 
mistake. Same goes for R5
Set the input CV to 5V and measure current in crucial points: thru R4 
and R5, collector of Q1, output of U1 and you'll find what's wrong.
But if you say already confirmed 2mA to Iabc, then maybe inputs of U1 
are accidently shorted by some resistor, or the OTA is broken.

Roman

W dniu 2021-05-29 o?10:34, ackolonges fds via Synth-diy pisze:
> Hi All,
> 
> I wanted some VC slew for keyboard-style playing from my modular, so I 
> searched for a circuit, and decided to try and build one called 
> 'Unopole', - circuit diagram at 
> https://thonk.co.uk/documents/stroh/Wiring/Unopole.jpg
> 
> The graph on the bottom right of the diagram shows a 0V to 10V signal 
> slewing in 10ms, and I simulated the circuit in Falstad Circuit 
> Simulator (text for circuit pasted at end), and it is slewing even 
> faster. However, when I build the real circuit the glide is much slower.
> 
> I've tried putting maximum current (2ma) to the OTA control pin, 
> bringing down the value of the charging cap C1 to 10nF, and the fastest 
> I'm able to get it to glide (at fastest pot setting and CV input 
> together) is about 32ms from 0V to 1V, which is about 300ms over 10V.
> 
> Below about 10nF for C1, the tuning of the 1V/Oct signal starts 
> faltering. I'm using a ceramic C0G cap for this. Should I be using a 
> different type of cap? If so, which would you recommend?
> 
> Alternatively, does anyone have any ideas as to why I'm having trouble 
> getting fast enough glides with this circuit? I've built it a few times 
> with the same results. Or, has anybody on here built a different VC 
> glide circuit that is more suitable?
> 
> Thanks so much for any advice any of you may have.
> 
> FALSTAD CIRCUIT
> ------------------------
> 
> $ 1 0.000005 11.086722712598126 17 5 50 5e-11
> 174 48 128 48 208 1 100000 0.48020000000000007 Resistance
> g 48 224 48 240 0 0
> R 48 128 48 96 0 0 40 12 0 0 0.5
> w 64 176 96 176 0
> r 96 176 176 176 0 15000
> r 96 240 176 240 0 10000
> w 176 176 176 240 0
> a 240 192 320 192 8 12 -12 1000000 0.000005472331080331692 0 100000
> g 240 208 240 240 0 0
> w 176 176 240 176 0
> c 336 192 336 256 0 1e-10 -0.5472385803642495 0.001
> w 320 192 336 192 0
> d 400 192 400 256 2 default
> w 336 192 400 192 0
> w 176 240 176 272 0
> w 176 272 304 272 0
> w 304 272 304 256 0
> w 304 256 336 256 0
> w 336 256 400 256 0
> w 400 256 464 256 0
> t 432 224 464 224 1 -1 5.814783631368241 -0.5472385803642495 100 default
> w 464 256 464 240 0
> w 432 224 432 192 0
> w 432 192 400 192 0
> w 464 208 464 144 0
> r 464 144 464 80 0 10000
> 402 656 352 768 352 1 0\s0\s40\s-9\s0\s0\s0.5 0\s0\s40\s9\s0\s0\s0.5 
> 0\s1\s-12.343529771373202\s0.5472335109924158\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s-0.5472335109924158\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s0\s0.5469786835162118\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s-8.547498288201437\s-4.257672077077218\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s-2.9215945571340436\s0.5469761486367535\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s0.12505886554275492\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.14737295745119638\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s17.405000677164992\s-0.12505886554275492\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s0.5469710782877009\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s0\s-0.5467162500596725\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s-1\s7.72624111758356\s-0.5469710782877009\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s0\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s-0.159115513874303\s0.1634519859667556\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s-8.857504054228007\s0.159115513874303\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s0\s0.10015101242435948\s100\sdefault 
> 0\s1\s0\s-4.704497213289612\s100\sdefault
> r 656 320 560 320 0 10000
> R 560 320 512 320 0 2 100 5 0 0 0.5
> w 464 80 752 80 0
> w 752 80 752 320 0
> w 768 352 800 352 0
> c 800 352 800 416 0 8.2e-8 0.18007155406906683 0.001
> g 800 416 800 432 0 0
> w 800 352 848 352 0
> r 672 496 752 496 0 10000
> w 656 384 656 496 0
> w 656 496 672 496 0
> a 912 336 992 336 8 15 -15 1000000 0.1800697533715331 
> 0.18007155406906683 100000
> w 752 496 864 496 0
> w 848 352 912 352 0
> w 864 496 864 320 0
> w 864 320 912 320 0
> w 864 320 864 272 0
> w 864 272 992 272 0
> w 992 272 992 336 0
> r 992 336 1072 336 0 330
> g 96 240 96 272 0 0
> o 28 64 0 4098 10 0.1 0 2 28 3
> o 45 64 0 4098 10 0.1 1 2 45 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> 


From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 12:27:50 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:27:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

> I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.

Uh, isn't that what we are all in now ??


In the UK, Maplin wiped out the independents such as Henrys, and then went bust.  RS have walk-in warehouses but never any electronic components stored there, those are all in Corby.  All they stock at the walk-ins are the same stuff Toolstation and Screwfix stock.



From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 31 12:47:44 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 11:47:44 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <7D20202653DF407B8B170D679323923C@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <7D20202653DF407B8B170D679323923C@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
Message-ID: <D10270BE-39A7-4BA1-955F-AA66E2E1FB76@electricdruid.net>

Richie?s simple 1st order version is pretty much what I did for a voltage-controlled Big Muff Pi tone control:

https://electricdruid.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/VCBigMuffTonecontrol.jpg

This was used in the Frequency Central "Meth Amp? eurorack module, which is mostly a eurorack-supply, voltage-controlled version of the Big Muff fuzz box?so we changed everything, pretty much!

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 31 May 2021, at 10:56, Richie Burnett <rburnett at richieburnett.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Crossfading between the outputs of a 1st order low-pass filter and 1st order high-pass filter (both with fc=1kHz) gives the responses shown in TILT1.PNG attached.  Whilst it does approximate a "tilt" response, it's probably not quite what you want.  There are no phase cancellation or notches provided neither of the two filters inverts the signal, and they add to a perfectly flat "wire" when they're mixed in equal amounts, but the centre of the response drifts to the left and the right as the mixing ratio is changed. It doesn't always cross 0dB at the same place.
> 
> The correct tilt response is shown in TILT2.PNG.  Notice how the frequency response stays centred around the middle of the audio band and always crosses 0dB at 1kHz in this example.  In order to get this response the positions of the poles and zeros in the filters have to move.  (This is unlike the previous example where both filters had fixed 1kHz cutoff frequencies.)  When the pole and the zero are both at 1kHz they cancel each other out and the resulting response is flat.  Move the pole down below 1kHz, and the zero up by the corresponding amount and you get a tilted response with LF boost followed by HF cut.  Conversely, if the zero comes first you get a response with LF cut followed by HF boost.  That is how I generated those response curves.  Mathematically.  With no thought to what hardware is needed to implement the transfer functions!
> 
> So, you can get a kind of tilt response just by mixing the outputs from 1-pole LPF and HPF but it will move from side-to-side which might or might not be acceptable for your application.  To get a perfect balanced response will take something a bit more clever.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> -Richie,
> 
> 
>> Neil Harper wrote:
>> 
>> my last guess was wondering if an equivalent circuit could be made by combining a lowpassed and hipassed audio signal and then crossfading them. I can imagine it would somewhat similar, but I'm not sure if you would get the same totally flat frequency response in the middle setting.
> 
> 
>> ColinMuirDorward wrote:
>> 
>> As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase problems and get a bit of notch filtering, no?
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
> <tilt1.png><tilt2.png>_______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 31 12:53:03 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:03 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
 <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <B0C5D78E-9D00-4E74-A7BB-B3F01E918BCB@electricdruid.net>


> On 31 May 2021, at 11:27, Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
> 
>> I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.
> 
> Uh, isn't that what we are all in now ??

Not quite! Potts is still going!

https://www.rfpotts.com

(Derby, UK)

When I was a kid, I used to go to Derby just to visit - a hour and half on the bus. The shop is tiny, but rammed full of stuff, so they could often find something that would work.

Still, places like that must be rare as hen's teeth now. The Maplin shop that Derby also had is long gone, as Mike mentioned.


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Mon May 31 12:53:32 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 11:53:32 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <e7c549f7-5c6b-9ee6-0c0b-51f3e1b311a1@gmail.com>
References: <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <30A94D953EA343569C16EF929B802A87@david78c70950b>
 <CAGn5V-8oVTvvARZrWryWDKZdNnCeKtk3w5qdEjHL52D-aHgnqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CB7CD21CBE5240AA9FE5EC1637BE57FE@david78c70950b>
 <CACZGMxJPnkHLQBt=MU0oKDJch3fqP1jMc0F8mVfG6oyaAwEiWA@mail.gmail.com>
 <d1e648ac04594bc2ab6b31cbb3a7f305@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <2A8A8A5770D5481E94FC631ACE2FFF59@david78c70950b>
 <d333231c450c49dda4d12d91ccea510e@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CACZGMx+PaNG3yAXOzHFxbny176CQP4RT2x5SfYZEAEX+ON8Amw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e7c549f7-5c6b-9ee6-0c0b-51f3e1b311a1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210531105332.GA6460@gjcp.net>

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 08:41:25AM +0100, Tony Allgood via Synth-diy wrote:
> 
> I think it was a Peugeot 309GTi and I got the feeling it accelerated faster
> than it could stop. It certainly handled way different to my Vauxhall
> Chevette.

I have driven a Peugeot 205GTi and it could certainly accelerate far more quickly than it could stop.  I also drove the similarly-engined and similar weight to the 309 Citro?n BX 19GTi but with its fully-powered braking system driven off the same coffee-mug-sized pump as the hydraulic suspension, a very hard stop felt like it would alter the rotation of the Earth.

The much heavier and larger Citro?n CX could - if you buried the brake pedal hard - stop from 60mph in rather less than 100 feet, less than half what's printed in the back of the Highway Code, but doing so left you feeling like you'd been in one of those centrifuges they stress test astronauts with.  Far better than hitting the kid that chased the ball out onto the road though!

-- 
Gordonjcp


From markverbos at gmail.com  Mon May 31 13:52:34 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 13:52:34 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] DIP LM13700 discontinuation
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-_eV+pmcyR3cZwz7J2ocxX0DzeAeFoLEbhys-x-ZMMmAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <4D687617-BDFA-49A5-9A95-ED7E031A0966@me.com>
 <6886F113-548A-4203-8504-E0437F58CE22@audiobanshee.com>
 <3E594F3F-EB30-4D16-8628-3FC2CC9A6E8A@gmail.com>
 <CAAv6=UC78_vrDYxu3=YDWOWZo+5dKNVy3mhG40KFuHzxnJ6B7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCD35242-F216-478A-928F-C999DDAF43DA@gmail.com>

But Trent Reznor said the OberMoog sounds WAY better than the OBMX!?

:)

Mark




> On May 28, 2021, at 6:29 PM, Michael E Caloroso <mec.forumreader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The reason why the TLE2062 was used in the OBMx instead of the Buchla
> preferred TL07x/06x is before Don was brought on board, Gibson CEO
> Henry J stockpiled parts to build production OBMx units before a
> working prototype was even completed.  You NEVER do that.  The
> pre-Buchla prototype was never satisfactory, Gibson was paying
> expensive warehouse costs for these parts that couldn't be used, and
> the value of these components were dropping like a rock.  So when
> Buchla was brought in, it was under the condition that the purchased
> components had to be used wherever possible.
> 
> MC
> 
> On 5/28/21, mark verbos via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> So weird Brian.
>> 
>> I was talking about these yesterday afternoon. I have never heard them
>> mentioned before now. TLE2062 is used a bunch in the OB-MX, which of course
>> was designed for Gibson/Oberheim by Don Buchla using many parts they already
>> had(or so the story goes). Since Don never used anything besides TL082 and
>> TL062 starting in about 1975 (OK an LM301 here and there), I was trying to
>> figure out why he used those here (They are 10x the price after all). It
>> could be that this was not on his dime, so he used what he really wanted to.
>> It could be that they already had them. It could be that he always wanted to
>> use them, and it was the first chance he got (it was 1994). Anyway, it seems
>> that with them he got the low power benefit of the TL062 and the higher slew
>> rate of the TL082 all in one overpriced package. There are 20 per voice
>> card. With 6 cards in there, the current would start to add up?
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2021, at 9:47 PM, Brian Willoughby <brianw at audiobanshee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I consider the Excalibur series of op-amps to be the cream of the crop. I
>>> assume they're just modern versions of the TL082 and TL072, et cetera.
>>> 
>>> TLE2082
>>> TLE2072
>>> 
>>> Plus the usual single, dual, quad options, through-hole and SMD.
>>> 
>>> Of course, there are 10,000 op-amps to choose from, and it always depends
>>> upon what you're hoping to accomplish.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 26, 2021, at 10:51, Benjamin Tremblay via Synth-diy
>>> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>>>> So, it?s just a cream-of-the-crop bifet op amp. Nice. For me who does not
>>>> even use tempco resistors or balanced outputs, probably too nice. It?s
>>>> the pearl and I am the swine.
>>>> 
>>>> Benjamin Tremblay
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> 




From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Mon May 31 14:06:48 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 13:06:48 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
> 
> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
> proofing foam.

They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.

Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.

-- 
Gordonjcp



From pete.hartman at gmail.com  Mon May 31 14:36:28 2021
From: pete.hartman at gmail.com (Pete Hartman)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 07:36:28 -0500
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CACodTR_UxNbYx2MeevF3fLu+ysBhFNqi0cYiFOZ09ynx8dSAvw@mail.gmail.com>

Many of the smaller relays you would want to use have limited on times --
i.e. you wouldn't want to use them as a toggle replacement.  If you were to
go down this path make sure you read the data sheets closely.

Once upon a time I was looking at how I could replace multi-pole switches
with spdt, and relays were on the table until I found this out.  For most
applications good analog switches (e.g. DG*) are sufficient.  In my case
V104 fets did well for the rest.

Pete



On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 7:09 AM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:

> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> > Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
> >
> > BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
> > proofing foam.
>
> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're
> unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a
> lot of distortion.
>
> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 31 14:57:49 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 14:57:49 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>

Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor
that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> > Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
> >
> > BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
> > proofing foam.
>
> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.
>
> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From john at sleefamily.org  Mon May 31 14:59:10 2021
From: john at sleefamily.org (jslee)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 22:59:10 +1000
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c874ff3a-2952-4fd8-bd40-e4a47b4fc941@beta.fastmail.com>

On Mon, 31 May 2021, at 00:48, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy wrote:
> Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
> like documentation and software development

As someone who has had joint problems since teen years (rheumatoid arthritis) I tried buckling-spring keyboards a few times and lasted less than five minutes. Just typing the classic ?the quick brown fox?? made me feel tired!

Not even in the same galaxy as ?easy on the joints?.

There does seem to be a lot of options for people who like antisocial loud keyboards, though.

John



From markverbos at gmail.com  Mon May 31 15:19:31 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 15:19:31 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
Message-ID: <9924373A-ECA7-4055-B792-64C41A9C5792@gmail.com>

I have a friend in India operating a pedals and synth company. He can top any of us in this regard. In many cases the products are built from reclaiming components from used gear and trash. The target prices for modules are well below $100 and the parts budgets reflect that.

Mark



> On May 31, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> Luxury squared!
> 
> back in my early days we had to travel by bus to various distant parts of the town and visit all 7 electronic stores to find something remotely working like needed part, and most of all looking for parts not needed now but surprisingly available. I learned to come up with circuit ideas on the spot when I saw a component that I haven't seen before in any shop.
> 
> On rare ocasions I used to ride several hundred km to visit yet another stores. There were really good ones, people from entire country went there, and they were always crowded.
> 
> I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.
> 
> Roman
> 
> W dniu 2021-05-29 o 00:11, Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy pisze:
>> Luxury!
>> Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.
>> On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>>> Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
>>> 
>>> This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
>>> 
>>> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>>> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
>>>> 
>>>> Roman
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon May 31 15:51:32 2021
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 15:51:32 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
References: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
Message-ID: <bfdb4aa5-9015-6020-09c7-2115fb483b6b@mnet-online.de>

Hi Chris

Am 29.05.21 um 02:38 schrieb chris:
> I didn't expect transatlantic delivery to be that fast.
As far as I know, Mouser-Europe is located in Munich. So two day within 
Germany delivery is quite normal.

Florian


From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 31 15:56:22 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 15:56:22 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <b87b8f0d-2135-20c9-609c-0d8f12ff7c1e@gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b03a1556-264e-7b6d-ce81-ccb30e75ded5@schmitzbits.de>
 <b87b8f0d-2135-20c9-609c-0d8f12ff7c1e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9f3DDp5kKHoxV+ZO+1mDrJVT0DQkEtDu=EhWRux7QBXw@mail.gmail.com>

Nope, the IBM 3270 is a beam spring keyboard. I have one here at home.
There is no conceivable locking mechanism. I think Rene is talking
about a Model A or even Model 01 converted to TTY. Those keyboards
used a drive shaft that propelled the keys forward, otherwise they
felt "stuck". If the motor wasn't on, the drive cylinder was not
moving, and the key wouldn't operate... but I don't know if it would
feel "stuck". I don't remember which of the ancient IBM typewriters
had a drive cylinder, but I knew half a year ago.

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:34 AM Vladimir Pantelic via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>
> On 31.05.21 10:17, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
> >
> > They look similar to the keyboards used on mainframe terminals on an IBM
> > System 370.
>
> yes, that's the keyboard my Mom had at work, together with an IBM 3270
> terminal. as a kid I was impressed that it had F1 - F12 and PF1 - PF24 :)
>
> And separate RETURN (as in next line) and ENTER (send the form to the
> mainframe) keys.
>
> when she had to use my PC to work from home she asked me where my ENTER
> (send form) key was - eventually we found out it was mapped to F3 for
> measly PC users...
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Mon May 31 16:05:08 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:05:08 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <c874ff3a-2952-4fd8-bd40-e4a47b4fc941@beta.fastmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <c874ff3a-2952-4fd8-bd40-e4a47b4fc941@beta.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UAf+VmnETcTfFPHM7EJM_xvuZ-4MWPo60q2tZxVPLK0aQ@mail.gmail.com>

"Easy on the joints" is a matter of perspective.

I never had joint problems until I developed Tendinitis while
developing software on a VAX mainframe.  Those VAX keyboard were
awful.

MC

On 5/31/21, jslee <john at sleefamily.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 May 2021, at 00:48, Michael E Caloroso via Synth-diy wrote:
>> Showing my age here... I loved those IBM model M "buckling spring"
>> keyboards from the 1980s that had a great tactile feel and were easy
>> on the joints.  They were great for work involving frequent typing
>> like documentation and software development
>
> As someone who has had joint problems since teen years (rheumatoid
> arthritis) I tried buckling-spring keyboards a few times and lasted less
> than five minutes. Just typing the classic ?the quick brown fox?? made me
> feel tired!
>
> Not even in the same galaxy as ?easy on the joints?.
>
> There does seem to be a lot of options for people who like antisocial loud
> keyboards, though.
>
> John
>



From fanwander at mnet-online.de  Mon May 31 16:07:40 2021
From: fanwander at mnet-online.de (Florian Anwander)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:07:40 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <B73C75E3-0CC3-40EC-9859-9899ECCC8EC8@mnet-online.de>
 <CAGn5V-_Z26pb9U-hjjTjpOq9jXwwBHxXb13k5UABo04MpETO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <525fe41b-8a1e-4a18-4e07-acef218a683c@mnet-online.de>

Hi

Am 28.05.21 um 00:37 schrieb cheater cheater:
> Where do you buy small to medium amounts of parts from in Germany
> other than Buerklin? Do you just go to Mouser?

If I am really in hurry, I go to the local Conrad store? which is 10 
minutes by bike for me. The staff in the parts department is quite 
knowledged (when did you get the last time the hint by a clerk, that the 
socket you want to buy won't fit the pcb/panel distance of the 
potentiometer?). But I don't like their web shop.

Reichelt.de has not the largest stock, but is ok as webshop.

Recently I started buying https://www.tme.eu/. I had a good impression.
I think they ship from Poland (??d?). They ask relative high shipping 
costs, but their parts prices are good.
And their product range is really wide.

And once again for Buerklin: if you are in Munich, then visiting their 
local shop in the suburbs is great. You can go there, ask for a 
mechanically suitable part for your circuit, they order 20 different 
variants from their automated ware house, they comp a coffee for the 
witing time, and then you can check which of the parts will suit your 
mechanical needs. That is really really great. And last but not least, 
the owner runs an excellent recording studio and a small record label 
for jazz.

Florian
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From mec.forumreader at gmail.com  Mon May 31 16:10:57 2021
From: mec.forumreader at gmail.com (Michael E Caloroso)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:10:57 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAv6=UBWp7d-_0KyFejxy88Ceh4YHoW9wJ9aPfm+uReh6CuiPQ@mail.gmail.com>

The distortion comes from the relay contacts as they oxidize and/or
become intermittent, which no longer give a reliable conductive path.
The distortion is unpredictable and not something that fits a uniform
transfer function.

Relays have a limited life of switching cycles.  Either the contacts
fail or the coil pulling the switch lever loses its magnetism.

MC

On 5/31/21, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
>> > Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
>> >
>> > BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
>> > proofing foam.
>>
>> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're
>> unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce
>> a lot of distortion.
>>
>> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>>
>> --
>> Gordonjcp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>


From colindorward at gmail.com  Mon May 31 16:18:32 2021
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:18:32 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <3eef0fd3-e7c4-1a2f-3797-f08e97145e12@gmx.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3eef0fd3-e7c4-1a2f-3797-f08e97145e12@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy4Cw8-1WiF-234OUuVBF=UsGwXLK_OQ6kqAav6=POp-4g@mail.gmail.com>

John, I deduced that it was me you wanted to give a spanking to. Please use
my name if you want to address me. I'm sorry you took offence that I
inadvertently used a deadname. I'm not sure why you assumed I chose to do
this deliberately. Next time you might consider a simple, polite note
letting me know of my error.
And for the record, that's ?milie, not Emilie.
Colin

On Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:32 AM Neil Harper via Synth-diy, <
synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 5/30/21 11:28 PM, ColinMuirDorward via Synth-diy wrote:
> > Is this tilt circuit the same as a Baxeandall EQ?
> >
> > For VC shelving you could dig into the mutable instruments files.
> > Olivier has one using 2164 VCA chips. Might be called the "shelves"
> module.
> >
> > As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase
> > problems and get a bit of notch filtering, no?
> >
> > C
>
> Thanks for that suggestion colin, I wasn't familiar with the MI shelves
> module. Schematic here:
>
> https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/shelves/downloads/shelves_v05.pdf
>
>
> --
> /// Neil Harper
> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From chris at chrismusic.de  Mon May 31 17:37:37 2021
From: chris at chrismusic.de (chris)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 17:37:37 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <bfdb4aa5-9015-6020-09c7-2115fb483b6b@mnet-online.de>
References: <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <bfdb4aa5-9015-6020-09c7-2115fb483b6b@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <20210531172959.9D90.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>

They only have an office in Munich, no store.
Shipping is from Texas. But they add customs/tax to the bill in advance,
so according to tracking french customs at the Paris airport didn't cause
any delay.

However, I read somewhere that this customs collaboration only works
when ordering via the german Mouser web site.

Chris



On Mon, 31 May 2021 15:51:32 +0200 Florian Anwander
<fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:

> Hi Chris
> 
> Am 29.05.21 um 02:38 schrieb chris:
> > I didn't expect transatlantic delivery to be that fast.
> As far as I know, Mouser-Europe is located in Munich. So two day within 
> Germany delivery is quite normal.
> 
> Florian



From markverbos at gmail.com  Mon May 31 17:49:04 2021
From: markverbos at gmail.com (mark verbos)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 17:49:04 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <bfdb4aa5-9015-6020-09c7-2115fb483b6b@mnet-online.de>
References: <0835AFAC-B170-4826-87EB-C6A46306E2C9@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-_QCmFEoUhZogsSStQ4qCdzoaDfXU55ok5gJa6NmcvR+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210529023321.2AAC.CHRIS@chrismusic.de>
 <bfdb4aa5-9015-6020-09c7-2115fb483b6b@mnet-online.de>
Message-ID: <4FA2FC0B-6E29-495F-8B6C-CAFC9D8D66FD@gmail.com>

But, everything is shipped from Texas. It is usually 2 days, but since COVID and the blizzard in Texas it is a bit longer.

Mark




> On May 31, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Florian Anwander <fanwander at mnet-online.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris
> 
> Am 29.05.21 um 02:38 schrieb chris:
>> I didn't expect transatlantic delivery to be that fast.
> As far as I know, Mouser-Europe is located in Munich. So two day within Germany delivery is quite normal.
> 
> Florian
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From metadata at gmx.com  Mon May 31 18:22:48 2021
From: metadata at gmx.com (Neil Harper)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 12:22:48 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <D10270BE-39A7-4BA1-955F-AA66E2E1FB76@electricdruid.net>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <7D20202653DF407B8B170D679323923C@DESKTOPUHPK2VO>
 <D10270BE-39A7-4BA1-955F-AA66E2E1FB76@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <9a3990d5-fbd6-d425-b58f-881aac1f96d1@gmx.com>



On 5/31/21 6:47 AM, Tom Wiltshire wrote:
> Richie?s simple 1st order version is pretty much what I did for a voltage-controlled Big Muff Pi tone control:
>
> https://electricdruid.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/VCBigMuffTonecontrol.jpg
>
> This was used in the Frequency Central "Meth Amp? eurorack module, which is mostly a eurorack-supply, voltage-controlled version of the Big Muff fuzz box?so we changed everything, pretty much!
>
> ==================
>         Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================

Hi tom, thanks for sharing that schematic - that's simple enough to
breadboard and try. i'd probably try it with a linearized 2164 though,
this one shows a 13700 and the exponential response would move the
'centre' of the VC crossfade asymmetrically.




--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 18:28:43 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:28:43 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95447cad03ac4ce39e8fa949e9ccb218@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

> Why would relays introduce distortion ?

They don't, unless they are some pretty shit ones.  Panasonic ones are guaranteed for at least 100,000 operations and there is no contact non-linearity at all to cause distortion.  If you think about it they are just switches with an electromagnetic actuator and any music will have gone through dozens of switches and/or relays to get to your preferred method of audio delivery.  Or even hundreds if the recording studio has a computer controlled patch panel.  One more is not going to be audible.

Also on some older APs you can hear relays switching during measurements which far exceed the limits of human perception.  Not sure of their exact function but I bet it's to measure a reference signal first.

Finally, to not use them would break the first rule of pro-audio - "what would Rupert do ?" or unfortunately now "have done ?"

For example :
https://rupertneve.com/products/master-buss-converter

"These Reference Level calibration standards are implemented with a superb degree of accuracy via high-precision resistors and relay-controlled stepped attenuation."

Or for example look at the Amek 9098i he helped design, possibly the highest quality analogue mixer ever built where most signal switching is via relays.

So just use them - you'll be in the absolute best of company.



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of cheater cheater via Synth-diy
Sent: 31 May 2021 13:58
To: Gordonjcp
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> > Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
> >
> > BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound 
> > proofing foam.
>
> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.
>
> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>
> --
> Gordonjcp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From metadata at gmx.com  Mon May 31 18:29:02 2021
From: metadata at gmx.com (Neil Harper)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 12:29:02 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3eef0fd3-e7c4-1a2f-3797-f08e97145e12@gmx.com>



On 5/30/21 11:28 PM, ColinMuirDorward via Synth-diy wrote:
> Is this tilt circuit the same as a Baxeandall EQ?
>
> For VC shelving you could dig into the mutable instruments files.
> Olivier has one using 2164 VCA chips. Might be called the "shelves" module.
>
> As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase
> problems and get a bit of notch filtering, no?
>
> C

Thanks for that suggestion colin, I wasn't familiar with the MI shelves
module. Schematic here:

https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/shelves/downloads/shelves_v05.pdf


--
/// Neil Harper
/// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 18:31:59 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:31:59 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] FW:  Digikey bags
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
 <9924373A-ECA7-4055-B792-64C41A9C5792@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <281a9d64c9bb41509939eae9688a5712@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bryant 
Sent: 31 May 2021 17:32
To: 'mark verbos'; Roman Sowa
Subject: RE: [sdiy] Digikey bags

With the way component shortages are going, we'll all be doing reclaim soon.

-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of mark verbos via Synth-diy
Sent: 31 May 2021 14:20
To: Roman Sowa
Cc: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags

I have a friend in India operating a pedals and synth company. He can top any of us in this regard. In many cases the products are built from reclaiming components from used gear and trash. The target prices for modules are well below $100 and the parts budgets reflect that.

Mark



> On May 31, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
> 
> Luxury squared!
> 
> back in my early days we had to travel by bus to various distant parts of the town and visit all 7 electronic stores to find something remotely working like needed part, and most of all looking for parts not needed now but surprisingly available. I learned to come up with circuit ideas on the spot when I saw a component that I haven't seen before in any shop.
> 
> On rare ocasions I used to ride several hundred km to visit yet another stores. There were really good ones, people from entire country went there, and they were always crowded.
> 
> I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.
> 
> Roman
> 
> W dniu 2021-05-29 o 00:11, Oren Leavitt via Synth-diy pisze:
>> Luxury!
>> Back in my day we had to leaf thru a 2 inch thick paper catalog, fill out and mail in an order form, and hope everything was in stock.
>> On 5/28/21 4:38 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>>> Mouser recently added a feature that helps with this a bit. You can type in a value in the column heading for quantity, and the search results will hide all price ranges that don't include that quantity.
>>> 
>>> This doesn't allow sort to, e.g., sort by Q100 price, but if you're in a habit of scanning the search results for bargains, this highlighting (hiding) feature really speeds that up.
>>> 
>>> I have a hunch that they know what we want, and are slowly working on it. The search features keep surprising me by getting better, incrementally, over the years. They don't move fast, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
>>> 
>>> Brian
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 28, 2021, at 01:16, Roman Sowa <modular at go2.pl> wrote:
>>>> The nicest thing about DigiKey over Mouser is the search filters - selected parameters do not disappear in next step, so you can narrow it down later. And something Mouser can never do: select the list by the price at any quantity other than 1.
>>>> 
>>>> Roman
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Synth-diy mailing list
>>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 18:37:38 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:37:38 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <B0C5D78E-9D00-4E74-A7BB-B3F01E918BCB@electricdruid.net>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
 <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <B0C5D78E-9D00-4E74-A7BB-B3F01E918BCB@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <9c2ae51925be491fb5dbec1fa7ab09e5@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

> Not quite! Potts is still going!   https://www.rfpotts.com

Looks good.  Oddly the shop front font looks just like Maplin's in the early days.  And inside is similar to what Maplin had upstairs serving Manchester University electronics department.  But most other Maplins went into electronic toys and forgot their roots, and hence they all went bust.



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Mon May 31 19:32:40 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 10:32:40 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Digikey bags
In-Reply-To: <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <939D264BA4CC46A4B63FEB7849ADD92F@david78c70950b>
 <C66C5C2F-1729-4146-875C-7DA25C459C79@gmail.com>
 <000c01d7530f$f0b493e0$d21dbba0$@oricom.ca>
 <a956565c-62f4-5b0f-e0cb-50c8d33cc046@go2.pl>
 <F160DC35-44CD-4AB5-BF50-9208417AC30F@audiobanshee.com>
 <8fd35dd5-1336-678f-2857-441ba0600a18@ix.netcom.com>
 <0efaa7ce-ff6c-4f56-748c-712589b05261@go2.pl>
 <7d292e62cc2a4a9da62bf55c2732b554@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <7E89A3E9523A4EFCB07C161AE286345B@david78c70950b>

We're super lucky here in Vancouver, BC, Canada, because we have Lee's
Electronic Components on Fraser Street.  Back in the good old days, they
were on Main Street, and there was another shop literally three doors down
the street called Main Electronics that was a good second choice if Lee's
didn't have what you wanted.  Main went out of business, and Lee's moved a
few blocks east (and slightly north) and doubled the size of their store.

The only issues with Lees are the following: 1) During the pandemic, they
only allow 3 punters in the store at a time, so the lineup outside can be
long, and 2) they pander mostly to those who don't really know very much
about electronics.  One very annoying result of this is that they mostly
stock 5% resistors.  Back in the day, when the "new" owners acquired the
shop, they acquired a complete collection of 1% resistors, and I fell in the
habit of buying what I needed for my strange designs there.  However, they
quickly realized that I was one of the only customers in the entire Lower
Mainland who was actually buying "weird" resistor values, so when they ran
out of odd E96 values, they simply didn't restock.  Now, they are mostly out
of many of the lees common values, and even out of some of the more common
values (like 200k).  It is very annoying when you need half a dozen 13.7k
resistors (for example) and having to either change a design or come up with
$100 worth of stuff to order from Digikey so that you don't end up spending
$8 for those resistors, when a local store should have them hanging in a
little bag on the resistor wall.  Plus, I live quite a few kilometers south
of Vancouver, so getting to Lee's is a 30-minute chore now, and there is
never anywhere to park.  It's very annoying to drive all the way there, find
a parking spot, stand in line, and then get in only to find that they are
out of the damn resistors I need.  As a result, Lee's has basically lost a
very good customer.  I rarely go there now.  They don't miss me.

The result of this is that I changed my buying habits entirely.  I now keep
inventories of everything I have on my computer, and I tend to buy parts
$500 or so at a time from places like Tayda (which sells the exact same
stuff that Lee's carries, but at about 20% of the price, and with a far
wider selection, and stuff is almost never out of stock).  For those special
resistors, I still buy from Digikey, but I almost never have any problem
getting up to $100.  



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Bryant
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 3:28 AM
To: Roman Sowa; Oren Leavitt; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Digikey bags

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

> I can forsee someone will raise the stake to luxury^3 by saying they had
no walk-in electronic stores. Well, I can't beat that. I was the lucky one.

Uh, isn't that what we are all in now ??


In the UK, Maplin wiped out the independents such as Henrys, and then went
bust.  RS have walk-in warehouses but never any electronic components stored
there, those are all in Corby.  All they stock at the walk-ins are the same
stuff Toolstation and Screwfix stock.

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From synth at schmitzbits.de  Mon May 31 20:39:27 2021
From: synth at schmitzbits.de (=?UTF-8?Q?Ren=c3=a9_Schmitz?=)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 20:39:27 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Mac users - excellent keyboard similar to IBM
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9f3DDp5kKHoxV+ZO+1mDrJVT0DQkEtDu=EhWRux7QBXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAv6=UAvuvgVeYkZCqBw9GSRwmWhUr1O+x1uyE3GcFsCpSRLag@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACZGMxLeXPbLD9oTJ881313Ae_1ah-dV8N0A6q=ZBLtpicqQDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b03a1556-264e-7b6d-ce81-ccb30e75ded5@schmitzbits.de>
 <b87b8f0d-2135-20c9-609c-0d8f12ff7c1e@gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-9f3DDp5kKHoxV+ZO+1mDrJVT0DQkEtDu=EhWRux7QBXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d0b1f985-214c-ff27-c56d-7999de3a6665@schmitzbits.de>


There were many different types of 3270 (and compatible) Terminals.

However the operating system must had support for this.

A quick search revealed this:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/3270.html

"Users are generally presented with forms to fill out. The user moves 
about the form with arrow, tab, and backtab keys, filling in and 
correcting the various fields, and then presses the Enter key when ready 
to submit the form to the mainframe. The mainframe receives a series of 
data elements tagged to identify which field they belong to. When the 
mainframe is not ready for input, it literally "locks" the keyboard."


Best,

 ?Ren?


Am 31.05.2021 um 15:56 schrieb cheater cheater via Synth-diy:
> Nope, the IBM 3270 is a beam spring keyboard. I have one here at home.
> There is no conceivable locking mechanism. I think Rene is talking
> about a Model A or even Model 01 converted to TTY. Those keyboards
> used a drive shaft that propelled the keys forward, otherwise they
> felt "stuck". If the motor wasn't on, the drive cylinder was not
> moving, and the key wouldn't operate... but I don't know if it would
> feel "stuck". I don't remember which of the ancient IBM typewriters
> had a drive cylinder, but I knew half a year ago.
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:34 AM Vladimir Pantelic via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
>> On 31.05.21 10:17, Ren? Schmitz wrote:
>>> They look similar to the keyboards used on mainframe terminals on an IBM
>>> System 370.
>> yes, that's the keyboard my Mom had at work, together with an IBM 3270
>> terminal. as a kid I was impressed that it had F1 - F12 and PF1 - PF24 :)
>>
>> And separate RETURN (as in next line) and ENTER (send the form to the
>> mainframe) keys.
>>
>> when she had to use my PC to work from home she asked me where my ENTER
>> (send form) key was - eventually we found out it was mapped to F3 for
>> measly PC users...
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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> _______________________________________________
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> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


From gordonjcp at gjcp.net  Mon May 31 21:31:10 2021
From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordonjcp)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 20:31:10 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 02:57:49PM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?

The fine layer of oxide on the contact that never gets wiped away and never gets "burnt through" because the current is too low.

-- 
Gordonjcp



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 21:53:03 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 19:53:03 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>
Message-ID: <2378dbe9e8db4d489eae258b4e5af233@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

> The fine layer of oxide on the contact that never gets wiped away and never gets "burnt through" because the current is too low.

The highest quality relays can't have a layer of oxide as gold plating on silver nickel simply cannot oxidise - it's chemically impossible.   The thickness of the gold plating determines the lifetime of the relay, with ones available for over a million operations if you want.  But a typical 100,000 operation one will be more than good enough for any audio application I can think of.

Or if you want something a little cheaper the hermetically sealed but unplated or rhodium plated silver nickel contact ones likewise won't oxidise as there is no oxygen in the sealed contact area.

It's only the vented ones with pure silver contacts that do what you suggest as those have the lowest resistance and are designed for switching power lines or high current signals, not low level audio signals.

Cheater just referred me to a product I designed over 40 years ago that is still running and the audio path on that is absolutely stuffed full of relays.  http://www.museum-nt.de/objekte/hp_3779c.html



-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Gordonjcp
Sent: 31 May 2021 20:31
To: synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 02:57:49PM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor 
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?

The fine layer of oxide on the contact that never gets wiped away and never gets "burnt through" because the current is too low.

--
Gordonjcp

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From list at mikebeauchamp.com  Mon May 31 22:14:54 2021
From: list at mikebeauchamp.com (Mike Beauchamp)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 16:14:54 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45b574de-9ae3-e30b-3f21-63767fe89693@mikebeauchamp.com>

I recently tested some analog audio switch IC's and was very happy with 
the results. Some are in packages of 4 switches in a single IC, and are 
configured as SPST switches either normally open or normally closed or 
even SPDT switches. Each "switcH" has a logic input and you hit it with 
5V logic signal and the switch does its thing.

I've repaired a few guitar amps where relays were the culprits of some 
intermittent behavior or not working. They also require a relatively 
high current 12V supply to activate the coils in the relays.

Mike

On 5/30/21 4:27 AM, cheater cheater via Synth-diy wrote:
> Hi all,
> this is only tangentially synth related, but I believe some of this
> applies pretty well to synths as well.
> 
> I would like to build a monitor controller for my speakers. They're a
> monitoring set which I'm building up for a future mastering studio.
> 
> 
> Here's my current setup:
> 
> DAC -> preamp -> active line level analog crossover -> 3x power amps -> speakers
> 
> I would like to accomplish a few things.
> 
> First of all, because the power amps have very high amplification, I
> need to insert attenuating pads in front of them. They need to be
> after the xo (crossover) but before the power amps; it's because if
> the attenuation happens before the crossover, then the crossover's
> self noise starts being noticeable. (however, using 48Vpp op amps, it
> has a huge dynamic range). So I need to attenuate 6 balanced signals
> (later 8, once I change the electronics to 4-way amplification). As a
> certain level of attenuation might be good for long term listening,
> and meanwhile you might want to listen at higher volumes every now and
> then for checking what a song sounds like at high SPL. So I'd like to
> build a switchable pad. This is for voltages that are up to 50V. I'm
> not sure what to use here: relays, reed switches, or something else? I
> don't want to use any semiconductor based system as this is for
> mastering, so a) fluctuations in resistance will mean differences in
> levels and b) additional distortion is not good.
> 
> I'd be looking for something that's able to be switched quickly and
> efficiently, but is also quiet, and won't need replacing very quickly.
> Having loud "thock" happen during monitoring would be disruptive to
> work, as you really want to listen to the music itself.
> 
> Second of all, I'd be looking to build an output switching system for
> hooking up the speakers either to the 3-way amplification system, or
> to just one of the amplifiers, as a 1-way amplified speaker. This is
> to simulate different ways of listening to the music. I understand at
> this point, this will require handling of high currents. The largest
> of these power amps is able to produce up to 900W. I would most likely
> be automatically turning off these amplifiers before re-routing the
> outputs, but I understand that any relays or reed switches still need
> to be able to handle the current going through them during operation.
> 
> 
> I would appreciate any suggestions. What do I use: relays? reed
> switches? some sort of mechanized throw switches?
> 
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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> 


From tom at electricdruid.net  Mon May 31 22:48:05 2021
From: tom at electricdruid.net (Tom Wiltshire)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 21:48:05 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>

It?s not that they cause distortion. If there is a problem with relays, it would be contact bounce. The acoustic noise they make is not the issue so much as the electrical noise. They switch fast, so any non-zero signal causes a click. Obviously some are much worse than others. Some may be good enough. Silent switching generally means ?slow switching? - it?s a crossfade in a few tens of msecs, not a hard jump from one to another.

In stompbox-world, a lot of people are currently hung up on ?true bypass switching? which is (mostly) taken to mean a solid path of metal from input to output when the effect is out of circuit. This is the current holy grail because having extra buffers in your signal path is taken to be clearly wrong (despite highly-thought-of mixing desks having dozens between the signal coming in and going out). In an attempt to meet this demand whilst providing silent switching (and also to avoid expensive and failure-prone 3PDT footswitches), some manufacturers have moved to relays, but these are often (mostly) accompanied by some type of short-to-ground element to silence the output while the relay switches. This makes up for the instantaneous switching and contact bounce of the metal-on-metal relay switching. The previous pedal generation used FETs to provide this switching action, and they could be ramped on softly, unlike relays. But for pedalworld, switching FETs in the signal path and the buffers that go with them are now often regarded as not the right answer, so other solutions have been found that hit the current marketing buzzword.

HTH,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 31 May 2021, at 13:57, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?
> 
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
>>> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
>>> 
>>> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
>>> proofing foam.
>> 
>> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.
>> 
>> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>> 
>> --
>> Gordonjcp
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
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> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org




From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 31 22:53:53 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 22:53:53 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-_ZAG0M2UjX2oEV_68YwsmAQx4XPTTPPLf6bYy7sc5CPA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tom,
thanks a lot.

I don't care much about electrically silent switching - just
mechanically silent would be nice.

I can't use semiconductor attenuation elements because the monitoring
setup for mastering has to be repeatable and we're operating at pretty
low tolerances here with regards to matching the stereo as well as
matching the separate parts of the balanced attenuation. Matching
groups 16 attenuating resistors (balanced * 8 bands) will be bad
enough... I don't think I would want to do that with semiconductors...

Cheers

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 10:48 PM Tom Wiltshire <tom at electricdruid.net> wrote:
>
> It?s not that they cause distortion. If there is a problem with relays, it would be contact bounce. The acoustic noise they make is not the issue so much as the electrical noise. They switch fast, so any non-zero signal causes a click. Obviously some are much worse than others. Some may be good enough. Silent switching generally means ?slow switching? - it?s a crossfade in a few tens of msecs, not a hard jump from one to another.
>
> In stompbox-world, a lot of people are currently hung up on ?true bypass switching? which is (mostly) taken to mean a solid path of metal from input to output when the effect is out of circuit. This is the current holy grail because having extra buffers in your signal path is taken to be clearly wrong (despite highly-thought-of mixing desks having dozens between the signal coming in and going out). In an attempt to meet this demand whilst providing silent switching (and also to avoid expensive and failure-prone 3PDT footswitches), some manufacturers have moved to relays, but these are often (mostly) accompanied by some type of short-to-ground element to silence the output while the relay switches. This makes up for the instantaneous switching and contact bounce of the metal-on-metal relay switching. The previous pedal generation used FETs to provide this switching action, and they could be ramped on softly, unlike relays. But for pedalworld, switching FETs in the signal path and the buffers that go with them are now often regarded as not the right answer, so other solutions have been found that hit the current marketing buzzword.
>
> HTH,
> Tom
>
> ==================
>        Electric Druid
> Synth & Stompbox DIY
> ==================
>
>
>
> > On 31 May 2021, at 13:57, cheater cheater via Synth-diy <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor
> > that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?
> >
> > On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
> >>> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
> >>>
> >>> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound
> >>> proofing foam.
> >>
> >> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.
> >>
> >> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gordonjcp
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>



From cheater00social at gmail.com  Mon May 31 22:55:42 2021
From: cheater00social at gmail.com (cheater cheater)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 22:55:42 +0200
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <2378dbe9e8db4d489eae258b4e5af233@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>
 <2378dbe9e8db4d489eae258b4e5af233@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CAGn5V-9j4WpbiE6jk_qeGkKL-GbsARa+LNeskr31mmvEu5UMzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:56 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> > The fine layer of oxide on the contact that never gets wiped away and never gets "burnt through" because the current is too low.
>
> The highest quality relays can't have a layer of oxide as gold plating on silver nickel simply cannot oxidise - it's chemically impossible.   The thickness of the gold plating determines the lifetime of the relay, with ones available for over a million operations if you want.  But a typical 100,000 operation one will be more than good enough for any audio application I can think of.
>
> Or if you want something a little cheaper the hermetically sealed but unplated or rhodium plated silver nickel contact ones likewise won't oxidise as there is no oxygen in the sealed contact area.
>
> It's only the vented ones with pure silver contacts that do what you suggest as those have the lowest resistance and are designed for switching power lines or high current signals, not low level audio signals.
>
> Cheater just referred me to a product I designed over 40 years ago that is still running and the audio path on that is absolutely stuffed full of relays.  http://www.museum-nt.de/objekte/hp_3779c.html

That's really interesting. I knew all that stuff about relays ages
ago, so thanks for reminding me about all of it. I'll have a gander at
what's available on Mouser - sounds like a fun evening.

Cheers



From dixon at mail.ubc.ca  Mon May 31 23:04:48 2021
From: dixon at mail.ubc.ca (David G Dixon)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 14:04:48 -0700
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>
Message-ID: <095389F529BA4039A83C764E37AD1928@david78c70950b>

For audio switching, why would anyone today use anything other than a CMOS
switch?  The DG series are excellent, and there are lots of configurations
to choose from (although, like everything else, a bunch of them were just
made obsolete in DIP format, like the excellent DG333 quad SPDT -- luckily,
I found a pile of them at a very good price).


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom
Wiltshire
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 1:48 PM
To: cheater cheater
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

It's not that they cause distortion. If there is a problem with relays, it
would be contact bounce. The acoustic noise they make is not the issue so
much as the electrical noise. They switch fast, so any non-zero signal
causes a click. Obviously some are much worse than others. Some may be good
enough. Silent switching generally means "slow switching" - it's a crossfade
in a few tens of msecs, not a hard jump from one to another.

In stompbox-world, a lot of people are currently hung up on "true bypass
switching" which is (mostly) taken to mean a solid path of metal from input
to output when the effect is out of circuit. This is the current holy grail
because having extra buffers in your signal path is taken to be clearly
wrong (despite highly-thought-of mixing desks having dozens between the
signal coming in and going out). In an attempt to meet this demand whilst
providing silent switching (and also to avoid expensive and failure-prone
3PDT footswitches), some manufacturers have moved to relays, but these are
often (mostly) accompanied by some type of short-to-ground element to
silence the output while the relay switches. This makes up for the
instantaneous switching and contact bounce of the metal-on-metal relay
switching. The previous pedal generation used FETs to provide this switching
action, and they could be ramped on softly, unlike relays. But for
pedalworld, switching FETs in the signal path and the buffers that go with
them are now often regarded as not the right answer, so other solutions have
been found that hit the current marketing buzzword.

HTH,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 31 May 2021, at 13:57, cheater cheater via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor 
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?
> 
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
>>> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
>>> 
>>> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound 
>>> proofing foam.
>> 
>> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're
unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a
lot of distortion.
>> 
>> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>> 
>> --
>> Gordonjcp
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


_______________________________________________
Synth-diy mailing list
Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org



From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 23:07:15 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 21:07:15 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-9j4WpbiE6jk_qeGkKL-GbsARa+LNeskr31mmvEu5UMzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>
 <2378dbe9e8db4d489eae258b4e5af233@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-9j4WpbiE6jk_qeGkKL-GbsARa+LNeskr31mmvEu5UMzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <09a4ea351b5f49838f48dc9ed9148252@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

Go to Mouser and sort by highest price first and work down.   Good relays aren't cheap.  

If you want to see "as good as it gets no matter what the price" have a look at https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/high-frequency-rf-relays/7582455/
10 million cycles, DC to UHF, almost zero resistance .... and now almost $100 each :-)    We used to use them by the handful at HP, but they used to be a lot cheaper.





-----Original Message-----
From: cheater cheater [mailto:cheater00social at gmail.com] 
Sent: 31 May 2021 21:56
To: Mike Bryant
Cc: Gordonjcp; synth-diy at synth-diy.org
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 9:56 PM Mike Bryant <mbryant at futurehorizons.com> wrote:
>
> > The fine layer of oxide on the contact that never gets wiped away and never gets "burnt through" because the current is too low.
>
> The highest quality relays can't have a layer of oxide as gold plating on silver nickel simply cannot oxidise - it's chemically impossible.   The thickness of the gold plating determines the lifetime of the relay, with ones available for over a million operations if you want.  But a typical 100,000 operation one will be more than good enough for any audio application I can think of.
>
> Or if you want something a little cheaper the hermetically sealed but unplated or rhodium plated silver nickel contact ones likewise won't oxidise as there is no oxygen in the sealed contact area.
>
> It's only the vented ones with pure silver contacts that do what you suggest as those have the lowest resistance and are designed for switching power lines or high current signals, not low level audio signals.
>
> Cheater just referred me to a product I designed over 40 years ago 
> that is still running and the audio path on that is absolutely stuffed 
> full of relays.  http://www.museum-nt.de/objekte/hp_3779c.html

That's really interesting. I knew all that stuff about relays ages ago, so thanks for reminding me about all of it. I'll have a gander at what's available on Mouser - sounds like a fun evening.

Cheers




From colindorward at gmail.com  Mon May 31 23:41:38 2021
From: colindorward at gmail.com (ColinMuirDorward)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 17:41:38 -0400
Subject: [sdiy] Anyone do a voltage controlled "Tilt" Filter?
In-Reply-To: <CAGn5V-8FHV0oy-K9b93a32aqOQxJ+YeuVXJaHugW0td2bXf--w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <967f8745-eb4d-0f0c-62d2-10fd06f6fe2c@gmx.com>
 <CAGn5V-_W_=Nj4GhiTh5iJY3SzxbKGrp=LgfYZU4qpQiVBcN=rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <b13ebceb-b7e4-9698-696b-59ec93c7827f@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy7e2Di4Qpy0igXUcX9ELgS6ir+SaqFkP+ehG7miEcdP=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3eef0fd3-e7c4-1a2f-3797-f08e97145e12@gmx.com>
 <CAGV3gy4Cw8-1WiF-234OUuVBF=UsGwXLK_OQ6kqAav6=POp-4g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGn5V-8FHV0oy-K9b93a32aqOQxJ+YeuVXJaHugW0td2bXf--w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGV3gy7iNPc_gyuvnEr5c4dEZ2vgShBZn+FzbHboMz7em6V0cg@mail.gmail.com>

The only relevant point in that interchange was that I inadvertently
deadnamed ?milie Gillet of MI.
Of course I had no idea they had changed their name, and have no problem
making the update whatsoever.

The Elliott Sound article on EQs is a great read, with some good laughs,
too. The section on tilt EQs is quite scathing.
https://sound-au.com/articles/eq.htm

On Mon, May 31, 2021, 5:10 PM cheater cheater, <cheater00social at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm sure I speak for everyone when I ask "What?!" followed by a quick
> "You know what, never mind, keep it off list"
>
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 7:20 PM ColinMuirDorward via Synth-diy
> <synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >
> > John, I deduced that it was me you wanted to give a spanking to. Please
> use my name if you want to address me. I'm sorry you took offence that I
> inadvertently used a deadname. I'm not sure why you assumed I chose to do
> this deliberately. Next time you might consider a simple, polite note
> letting me know of my error.
> > And for the record, that's ?milie, not Emilie.
> > Colin
> >
> > On Mon, May 31, 2021, 9:32 AM Neil Harper via Synth-diy, <
> synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/30/21 11:28 PM, ColinMuirDorward via Synth-diy wrote:
> >> > Is this tilt circuit the same as a Baxeandall EQ?
> >> >
> >> > For VC shelving you could dig into the mutable instruments files.
> >> > Olivier has one using 2164 VCA chips. Might be called the "shelves"
> module.
> >> >
> >> > As for x-fading between high and low shelves, you might have phase
> >> > problems and get a bit of notch filtering, no?
> >> >
> >> > C
> >>
> >> Thanks for that suggestion colin, I wasn't familiar with the MI shelves
> >> module. Schematic here:
> >>
> >>
> https://mutable-instruments.net/modules/shelves/downloads/shelves_v05.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> /// Neil Harper
> >> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Synth-diy mailing list
> >> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> >> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> >> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Synth-diy mailing list
> > Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> > http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> > Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
>
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From neil.johnson71 at gmail.com  Mon May 31 23:47:57 2021
From: neil.johnson71 at gmail.com (Neil Johnson)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 22:47:57 +0100
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <09a4ea351b5f49838f48dc9ed9148252@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531193110.GB9400@gjcp.net>
 <2378dbe9e8db4d489eae258b4e5af233@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
 <CAGn5V-9j4WpbiE6jk_qeGkKL-GbsARa+LNeskr31mmvEu5UMzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <09a4ea351b5f49838f48dc9ed9148252@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>
Message-ID: <CACZGMxJjAkZ61-9X18j8v7JK=YgU6JoC2Rv65A=ttvZdTcNChQ@mail.gmail.com>

Mike Bryant wrote:

> Go to Mouser and sort by highest price first and work down.   Good relays
> aren't cheap.
>
> If you want to see "as good as it gets no matter what the price" have a
> look at https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/high-frequency-rf-relays/7582455/
> 10 million cycles, DC to UHF, almost zero resistance .... and now almost
> $100 each :-)    We used to use them by the handful at HP, but they used to
> be a lot cheaper.
>

Before clicking on the link I knew they'd be Teledyne. And yup, they were.
When you buy in volume direct from the manufacturer the price will be
significantly better, but then we're talking volumes that are way beyond
this tiny little backwater of electronic music.

Neil
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From mbryant at futurehorizons.com  Mon May 31 23:57:50 2021
From: mbryant at futurehorizons.com (Mike Bryant)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 21:57:50 +0000
Subject: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?
In-Reply-To: <095389F529BA4039A83C764E37AD1928@david78c70950b>
References: <CAGn5V-8=X=oJhD8XNuGCTU6_JLgw=bEkUhDhjVpXqC1=nc7oEw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210530083412.GA29581@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--Bp3PFKuMaKcWJzjK=0cp9JCenpqcu-kD9E-i8rqqoxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20210531120648.GA6888@gjcp.net>
 <CAGn5V--cPTAQcK4NggoQSN8z_hsneYVVWQ-dN00aMOWp=9j_zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <803F39E4-CE77-443E-96C6-9D188543B2E8@electricdruid.net>
 <095389F529BA4039A83C764E37AD1928@david78c70950b>
Message-ID: <e1b8da60480741578b1a9799372fe0ce@CP1-L2-MB-1006.CloudPlatform1.com>

The DG series are excellent, and I sometimes use them for setting mic preamp gains.  But some applications such as automated patch panels need to switch low impedance line level signals into pretty capacitive loads without loss and they're not so good at that.  And if you're running a 48 or 100 volt supply to provide more headroom, then CMOS switches definitely aren't a solution.  There the choice is MOSFETs or relays, and I've used both over the years.


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of David G Dixon via Synth-diy
Sent: 31 May 2021 22:05
To: 'Tom Wiltshire'; 'cheater cheater'
Cc: 'synth-diy'
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

For audio switching, why would anyone today use anything other than a CMOS switch?  The DG series are excellent, and there are lots of configurations to choose from (although, like everything else, a bunch of them were just made obsolete in DIP format, like the excellent DG333 quad SPDT -- luckily, I found a pile of them at a very good price).


-----Original Message-----
From: Synth-diy [mailto:synth-diy-bounces at synth-diy.org] On Behalf Of Tom Wiltshire
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 1:48 PM
To: cheater cheater
Cc: synth-diy
Subject: Re: [sdiy] Relays or reed switches for routing?

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

It's not that they cause distortion. If there is a problem with relays, it would be contact bounce. The acoustic noise they make is not the issue so much as the electrical noise. They switch fast, so any non-zero signal causes a click. Obviously some are much worse than others. Some may be good enough. Silent switching generally means "slow switching" - it's a crossfade in a few tens of msecs, not a hard jump from one to another.

In stompbox-world, a lot of people are currently hung up on "true bypass switching" which is (mostly) taken to mean a solid path of metal from input to output when the effect is out of circuit. This is the current holy grail because having extra buffers in your signal path is taken to be clearly wrong (despite highly-thought-of mixing desks having dozens between the signal coming in and going out). In an attempt to meet this demand whilst providing silent switching (and also to avoid expensive and failure-prone 3PDT footswitches), some manufacturers have moved to relays, but these are often (mostly) accompanied by some type of short-to-ground element to silence the output while the relay switches. This makes up for the instantaneous switching and contact bounce of the metal-on-metal relay switching. The previous pedal generation used FETs to provide this switching action, and they could be ramped on softly, unlike relays. But for pedalworld, switching FETs in the signal path and the buffers that go with them are now often regarded as not the right answer, so other solutions have been found that hit the current marketing buzzword.

HTH,
Tom

==================
       Electric Druid
Synth & Stompbox DIY
==================



> On 31 May 2021, at 13:57, cheater cheater via Synth-diy
<synth-diy at synth-diy.org> wrote:
> 
> Why would relays introduce distortion? Aren't they just a conductor 
> that gets mechanically moved back and forth. What's the nonlinearity?
> 
> On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:10 PM Gordonjcp <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 11:22:38AM +0200, cheater cheater wrote:
>>> Why can I not use relays to switch audio? What's wrong with relays?
>>> 
>>> BTW, I was thinking of acoustically dampening relays. EG use sound 
>>> proofing foam.
>> 
>> They're electrically noisy as well as mechanically noisy.  They're
unreliable when you use them for switching tiny currents.  They introduce a lot of distortion.
>> 
>> Literally nothing sane uses relays in the audio path.
>> 
>> --
>> Gordonjcp
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Synth-diy mailing list
>> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
>> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
>> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org
> _______________________________________________
> Synth-diy mailing list
> Synth-diy at synth-diy.org
> http://synth-diy.org/mailman/listinfo/synth-diy
> Selling or trading? Use marketplace at synth-diy.org


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