200e

I've followed with some interest the exchanges about the Booch' on 
Analog Heaven, and since and can't post on this blog, I just wanted 
to make a comment here:
While not quite a concept for some "purists", one thing I love about 
the Buchla is the fact it is, well, a MODULAR system, meaning it can 
(most of the time), interact harmoniously (pun intended) with other 
non-Buchla kin. I have been enjoying the sonic offspring of my 259's 
and my Serge Wave Shaper M-module. Mind you, the 259 alone can come 
up with some unique/beautiful tone colours, but oh Lord, the 
possibilities of having these two systems copulating!! Certainly 
superior to many other "conventional" modulars.

Anybody tried to make some mongrel sounds with their 200e's and other 
mods?

Again, this might sound like heresy for some purists out there, but 
oh, boy, that's the beauty of patch cords! Makes it easier to have 
the mini-phone jack/banana paradigm in the Booch... (it's 
a "bilingual" system in my book....or bisexual, or..... oh, 
whatever!).

;-P

I for one had the notion that due to Buchla's unique voltage system  
that interfacing with other synths was not do-able or maybe could be  
damaging.

Could you explain what would be some basic ways one could interface?

thanks,

db

On 2-Dec-08, at 4:49 PM, cuari7 wrote:

> I've followed with some interest the exchanges about the Booch' on
> Analog Heaven, and since and can't post on this blog, I just wanted
> to make a comment here:
> While not quite a concept for some "purists", one thing I love about
> the Buchla is the fact it is, well, a MODULAR system, meaning it can
> (most of the time), interact harmoniously (pun intended) with other
> non-Buchla kin. I have been enjoying the sonic offspring of my 259's
> and my Serge Wave Shaper M-module. Mind you, the 259 alone can come
> up with some unique/beautiful tone colours, but oh Lord, the
> possibilities of having these two systems copulating!! Certainly
> superior to many other "conventional" modulars.
>
> Anybody tried to make some mongrel sounds with their 200e's and other
> mods?
>
> Again, this might sound like heresy for some purists out there, but
> oh, boy, that's the beauty of patch cords! Makes it easier to have
> the mini-phone jack/banana paradigm in the Booch... (it's
> a "bilingual" system in my book....or bisexual, or..... oh,
> whatever!).
>
> ;-P
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am pretty much on top of my 200e system but one thing I am not sure 
about is ...

Are there any things you CANT plug things into..when talking banana 
jacks...for example

I patch a random CV out into a VCO black CV...can I the jump from that 
black vco VCo to the next VCO cvin?

Ross


>
>

yes, it would be the same as running two patchcords from the random output
to the two inputs. all one wire.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 7:31 PM, amnesia <amni56@tpg.com.au> wrote:

>   I am pretty much on top of my 200e system but one thing I am not sure
> about is ...
>
> Are there any things you CANT plug things into..when talking banana
> jacks...for example
>
> I patch a random CV out into a VCO black CV...can I the jump from that
> black vco VCo to the next VCO cvin?
>
> Ross
>
> >
> >
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Firstly, most professional synth builders, and I'm sure the Buchla is
no exception, create systems where you can't damage a modular patching
it to itself. The danger lies in sending a potentially dangerous
voltage from the "outside" world to the Buchla.

One can certainly use a voltmeter and examine the outputs of what you
want to connect once you know the units well enough to set up a max
level and compare it to the levels on your Buchla. One can also use a
simple attenuator to scale down a range.

I guess with Buchla the audio paths use lower voltage ranges than it's
own CV range and systems where audio and CV mix.

You may want to connect the grounds to be common. There should be a
banana for that purpose on the Serge and Buchla for example.

Generally it's a no-no to make a patch that sends an output back into
another output. Within a system you should not do any damage but it's
generally something to be avoided. (An output back into an input for
feedback is always cool though). To a beginner, you might think you
won't connect two outputs that easily but it's tempting to take 2
outputs and patch them to a *single* input. That might seem like
nothing wrong, but you have to consider both outs will be sending
signals to each other, not just the input you were intending. That's
one thing proper mixers are for.

Aside from some sort of freak mislabeling or malfunction of another
instrument (like an input of something outputting high voltage spikes)
it will certainly do the Buchla no harm to send it's output to
something else. Now will the Buchla harm the other instrument... well
check the voltage ranges of where it's going to against the Buchla.

On Dec 3, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nicholas_kent wrote:

> Generally it's a no-no to make a patch that sends an output back into
> another output. Within a system you should not do any damage but it's
> generally something to be avoided. (An output back into an input for
> feedback is always cool though). To a beginner, you might think you
> won't connect two outputs that easily but it's tempting to take 2
> outputs and patch them to a *single* input.


i found that mixing both trigger outputs from a 260e in a single  
channel of a 256e doesn't produce what i'd expect (both triggers) so  
i'd taken to running both outputs directly into the step input of my  
250e by just stacking them there. so i shouldn't do this?

anyone else find a way to combine both trigger outs from the 260e (or  
are they pulse or gate outs? i can't keep it straight)?

thanks,

-jon
"There are no differences but differences of degree between different  
degrees
of difference and no difference."
- James, William. "Subjective Effects of Nitrous Oxide." Mind. 1882;  
Vol 7.

I stack trigger outputs into the pulse inputs of my 281e all of the
time.  It produces predictable behavior (more so than when I do this
on my Serge) so I assumed it was a feature.  I seem to remember
someone on this list mentioning this as a cool feature.

--tom

 
--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, jon schatz <jon@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On Dec 3, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nicholas_kent wrote:
> 
> > Generally it's a no-no to make a patch that sends an output back into
> > another output. Within a system you should not do any damage but it's
> > generally something to be avoided. (An output back into an input for
> > feedback is always cool though). To a beginner, you might think you
> > won't connect two outputs that easily but it's tempting to take 2
> > outputs and patch them to a *single* input.
> 
> 
> i found that mixing both trigger outputs from a 260e in a single  
> channel of a 256e doesn't produce what i'd expect (both triggers) so  
> i'd taken to running both outputs directly into the step input of my  
> 250e by just stacking them there. so i shouldn't do this?
> 
> anyone else find a way to combine both trigger outs from the 260e (or  
> are they pulse or gate outs? i can't keep it straight)?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> -jon
> "There are no differences but differences of degree between different  
> degrees
> of difference and no difference."
> - James, William. "Subjective Effects of Nitrous Oxide." Mind. 1882;  
> Vol 7.
>

yes, you've always been able to stack triggers.

the effect of mult'ing cv's is usually saturation- the highest value gets
applied.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 1:23 PM, tmeade1974 <tmeade1974@yahoo.com> wrote:

>   I stack trigger outputs into the pulse inputs of my 281e all of the
> time. It produces predictable behavior (more so than when I do this
> on my Serge) so I assumed it was a feature. I seem to remember
> someone on this list mentioning this as a cool feature.
>
> --tom
>
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com <200e%40yahoogroups.com>, jon schatz <jon@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2008, at 10:33 AM, nicholas_kent wrote:
> >
> > > Generally it's a no-no to make a patch that sends an output back into
> > > another output. Within a system you should not do any damage but it's
> > > generally something to be avoided. (An output back into an input for
> > > feedback is always cool though). To a beginner, you might think you
> > > won't connect two outputs that easily but it's tempting to take 2
> > > outputs and patch them to a *single* input.
> >
> >
> > i found that mixing both trigger outputs from a 260e in a single
> > channel of a 256e doesn't produce what i'd expect (both triggers) so
> > i'd taken to running both outputs directly into the step input of my
> > 250e by just stacking them there. so i shouldn't do this?
> >
> > anyone else find a way to combine both trigger outs from the 260e (or
> > are they pulse or gate outs? i can't keep it straight)?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > -jon
> > "There are no differences but differences of degree between different
> > degrees
> > of difference and no difference."
> > - James, William. "Subjective Effects of Nitrous Oxide." Mind. 1882;
> > Vol 7.
> >
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's nice connecting outputs to one another. The pulses/gates are diode coupled (wired-
OR, some call it) such that everything works out just nice without thinking about it at all. If 
you want to think about it, then think the pulse outputs each have their own half of a 
voltage-maximum-selector circuit. to connecting two togehter makes a whole max-
circuit and so outputs whichever of the two pulse/gate outputs is higher. the pulse/gate 
signals themselves   have 3 states: low (nothing happening), middle (gate), and high (pulse, 
only lasts a little while, a few ms or so, there's a range in the spec I think..). so taking the 
maximum of two pulse/gate signals gives you gate whenever at least one has a gate on, 
and pulses get through whenever they happen on either input.

the CV outputs are all resistively coupled so connecting them to one another takes the 
average of the lot. there are some exceptions having to do with some of the circuits with 
LEDs showing CV output levels (266e outs, 261e mod CV, 259e mod CV..) -- these can act 
weirder than just an average, but nothing will get too hurt. if anything current 
consumption will go up dumping through the LED.. try messing it up, and if you can do it 
Don'll probably fix you up someday.. or I will or somebody

audio is resistively coupled too, so you can do things like patch outputs together to get an 
equal mix of each signal. 259's sine and final outputs can be connected to cancel the 
fundamental, for example

As for what's up with trying to combine pulses with the 256e, it's sample rate is too slow 
to reliably capture the short pulses. but just connecting them all up works fine. if you want 
to do things like forming different subsets of a few pulses (for example you have 3 pulses 
and you want one subset of two triggering one thing, and another subset of two triggering 
another) then you need a little active help. using a couple 281 stages as a buffers would 
do if you don't mind the delay.

If this all isn't too clear, I think I posted it all in different words once (or twice?) before, so 
try that. and if it still doesn't make sense write and ask me. or better yet, post here 
because if you didn't get it probably someone else didn't either. or best just try it out and 
see what happens. you can't mess it up. or if you can I'd like to know, and I'll help fix it.

Yasi Perera

yasi
 this is great news ... i've always stayed away from this fearing damage
i feel like i got a new module! 
thanks
joe

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, cyaarsoil <yasi_p@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: cyaarsoil <yasi_p@hotmail.com>
Subject: [200e] output coupling (was Re: newbie question)
To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 11:05 PM










    
            It's nice connecting outputs to one another. The pulses/gates are diode coupled (wired-

OR, some call it) such that everything works out just nice without thinking about it at all. If 

you want to think about it, then think the pulse outputs each have their own half of a 

voltage-maximum- selector circuit. to connecting two togehter makes a whole max-

circuit and so outputs whichever of the two pulse/gate outputs is higher. the pulse/gate 

signals themselves   have 3 states: low (nothing happening), middle (gate), and high (pulse, 

only lasts a little while, a few ms or so, there's a range in the spec I think..). so taking the 

maximum of two pulse/gate signals gives you gate whenever at least one has a gate on, 

and pulses get through whenever they happen on either input.



the CV outputs are all resistively coupled so connecting them to one another takes the 

average of the lot. there are some exceptions having to do with some of the circuits with 

LEDs showing CV output levels (266e outs, 261e mod CV, 259e mod CV..) -- these can act 

weirder than just an average, but nothing will get too hurt. if anything current 

consumption will go up dumping through the LED.. try messing it up, and if you can do it 

Don'll probably fix you up someday.. or I will or somebody



audio is resistively coupled too, so you can do things like patch outputs together to get an 

equal mix of each signal. 259's sine and final outputs can be connected to cancel the 

fundamental, for example



As for what's up with trying to combine pulses with the 256e, it's sample rate is too slow 

to reliably capture the short pulses. but just connecting them all up works fine. if you want 

to do things like forming different subsets of a few pulses (for example you have 3 pulses 

and you want one subset of two triggering one thing, and another subset of two triggering 

another) then you need a little active help. using a couple 281 stages as a buffers would 

do if you don't mind the delay.



If this all isn't too clear, I think I posted it all in different words once (or twice?) before, so 

try that. and if it still doesn't make sense write and ask me. or better yet, post here 

because if you didn't get it probably someone else didn't either. or best just try it out and 

see what happens. you can't mess it up. or if you can I'd like to know, and I'll help fix it.



Yasi Perera




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there anyone on the list that wants a ZOe module? I put
an order for one and have changed my mind. Cynthia was unable to refund me so
as soon as I get it I am going to sell it. If someone here wants to put an
order for one, contact me and you can take my place and maybe she will be able
to give me my money back. Contact me privately at: moondog0468@yahoo.com.
 
 
Thanks,
James


      

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