200e

Can anybody tell me what the symmetry and high order controls on the 
new 261e oscilator do?

--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Moroney" <sm52uk@y...> wrote:
>
> Can anybody tell me what the symmetry and high order controls on the 
> new 261e oscilator do?
>

I can only use the old 259 as reference, but based on that....

With the Symetry control on one side, the wave is the same on the top
and bottom of the zero volts line. At the other end, the 2 halves are
different. The bottom is more rounded. Guitar payers like the
harmonics they get from asymetrical distortion.

High Order is one side and Low order is the other side of the Order
Control. That has to do with the harmonic content. Low order is a saw
wave and high order is the output of the wave multiplier section,
which is as much as 6 times the root frequency. he Higher order should
sound more dense.


I hope that helps somehow.

Mark

for those of you who are members of the Buchla Modular group, I
uploaded samples of the classic 259 Osc. tot he Files section...

  the 259e uses a different waveshaping technique (non-linear
waveshaping), but the new 261e has similar controls/waveshaping
circuitry and sounds alot like the original 259 so those samples can
give you an idea of what to expect.  the samples are just a 259 OSC
with no other modules, I made these several years ago.

  I like FM'd chaotic sounds so thats what i recorded but Buchla
Oscillators are capable of a wide range of sounds which would be next
to impossible to fully demonstrate.. please keep in mind this is just
one example of what they are capable of.









--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Stewart Moroney <sm52uk@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark
> 
> It sort of gives me an idea but i still don't really have my head 
> around it.  Anybody know if there is any more detailed info on the old 
> 259 I can look at, preferably something with some oscilloscope diagrams 
> or something?
> 
> 
> On 13 Jan 2006, at 17:58, Mark Verbos wrote:
> 
> >  I can only use the old 259 as reference, but based on that....
> >
> >  With the Symetry control on one side, the wave is the same on the top
> >  and bottom of the zero volts line. At the other end, the 2 halves are
> >  different. The bottom is more rounded. Guitar payers like the
> >  harmonics they get from asymetrical distortion.
> >
> >  High Order is one side and Low order is the other side of the Order
> >  Control. That has to do with the harmonic content. Low order is a saw
> >  wave and high order is the output of the wave multiplier section,
> >  which is as much as 6 times the root frequency. he Higher order
should

> >  sound more dense.
> >
> >
> >  I hope that helps somehow.
> >
> >  Mark
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks Mark

It sort of gives me an idea but i still don't really have my head 
around it.  Anybody know if there is any more detailed info on the old 
259 I can look at, preferably something with some oscilloscope diagrams 
or something?


On 13 Jan 2006, at 17:58, Mark Verbos wrote:

>  I can only use the old 259 as reference, but based on that....
>
>  With the Symetry control on one side, the wave is the same on the top
>  and bottom of the zero volts line. At the other end, the 2 halves are
>  different. The bottom is more rounded. Guitar payers like the
>  harmonics they get from asymetrical distortion.
>
>  High Order is one side and Low order is the other side of the Order
>  Control. That has to do with the harmonic content. Low order is a saw
>  wave and high order is the output of the wave multiplier section,
>  which is as much as 6 times the root frequency. he Higher order should
>  sound more dense.
>
>
>  I hope that helps somehow.
>
>  Mark


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Rick, they are great examples of how much variety of sounds you 
can get from 1 osc module.


On 14 Jan 2006, at 17:16, Rick wrote:

> for those of you who are members of the Buchla Modular group, I
>  uploaded samples of the classic 259 Osc. tot he Files section...
>
>    the 259e uses a different waveshaping technique (non-linear
>  waveshaping), but the new 261e has similar controls/waveshaping
>  circuitry and sounds alot like the original 259 so those samples can
>  give you an idea of what to expect.  the samples are just a 259 OSC
>  with no other modules, I made these several years ago.
>
>    I like FM'd chaotic sounds so thats what i recorded but Buchla
>  Oscillators are capable of a wide range of sounds which would be next
>  to impossible to fully demonstrate.. please keep in mind this is just
>  one example of what they are capable of.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Stewart Moroney <sm52uk@y...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Thanks Mark
>  >
>  > It sort of gives me an idea but i still don't really have my head
>  > around it.  Anybody know if there is any more detailed info on the 
> old
>  > 259 I can look at, preferably something with some oscilloscope 
> diagrams
>  > or something?
>  >
>  >
>  > On 13 Jan 2006, at 17:58, Mark Verbos wrote:
>  >
>  > >  I can only use the old 259 as reference, but based on that....
>  > >
>  > >  With the Symetry control on one side, the wave is the same on 
> the top
>  > >  and bottom of the zero volts line. At the other end, the 2 
> halves are
>  > >  different. The bottom is more rounded. Guitar payers like the
>  > >  harmonics they get from asymetrical distortion.
>  > >
>  > >  High Order is one side and Low order is the other side of the 
> Order
>  > >  Control. That has to do with the harmonic content. Low order is 
> a saw
>  > >  wave and high order is the output of the wave multiplier section,
>  > >  which is as much as 6 times the root frequency. he Higher order
>  should
>  > >  sound more dense.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  I hope that helps somehow.
>  > >
>  > >  Mark
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Can anybody tell me what the symmetry and high order controls on 
>the new 261e oscilator do?

well, you know how the "timbre" control works, folding up the sine, 
sounding like a resonant filter as the number of wiggles per cycle 
goes up, but the period stays the same. the symmetry control bunches 
up the wiggles in one half of the period. spectrally it suppresses the 
fundamental a bit and pushes more energy into the even harmonics. to 
me sounds like a nasal zero. 

high order blends in the derivative of a squared-up version of the 
would be output. spikes instead of humps. thin but aggro

in addition/correction to mark's comments about the 259:
order is a crossfade between the folded-sine (bandwith-limited/low 
order) and an wide-band signal (infinite-bandwidth/high order). the 
symmetry control moves the wide-band signal from even harmonics, 
through all harmonics, to odd harmonics. 
to me higher order sounds LESS dense, but that perception probably has 
alot to do with what else is going on with the sound.

and a final comment regarding both the 259 and 261: I've been fooling 
around with patching the outputs together on the 259 as I noticed the 
sine output is out of phase with the final output. patching them 
together cancels the fundamental. I bet it was built that way on 
purpose. the 261e has the same phase relation between the sine and 
final outputs. though, with only one output jack each, I'd need to use 
a mixer to try it, and I haven't yet.

anyone know if the 292 has any phase shift? I geuss it'd be the same 
on every channel anyways..

Yasi Perera

That is interesting. The 292's output is in phase with the input,
however the Buchla mixers invert the signal on it's way thru, I assume
to allow phase cancellation. So in a 206 you can use one side to
invert and the other side to mix the signals. You could do the same
with the 207 using panning to make two separate mixers. The 205, 204
and maybe even 227 all allow it as well.

Mark



--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "cyaarsoil" <yasi_p@h...> wrote:

> and a final comment regarding both the 259 and 261: I've been fooling 
> around with patching the outputs together on the 259 as I noticed the 
> sine output is out of phase with the final output. patching them 
> together cancels the fundamental. I bet it was built that way on 
> purpose. the 261e has the same phase relation between the sine and 
> final outputs. though, with only one output jack each, I'd need to use 
> a mixer to try it, and I haven't yet.
> 
> anyone know if the 292 has any phase shift? I geuss it'd be the same 
> on every channel anyways..
> 
> Yasi Perera
>