200e

Hi,

I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
rack ears?

thanks,
--david

At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
>I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
>rack ears?

The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are any)

-C

-- 
Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

cool thanks. 

i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
ask...

do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern modulars.

thanks,
--david

--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@...> wrote:
>
> At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
> >rack ears?
> 
> The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are any)

> 
> -C
> 
> -- 
> Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
> cbm@...         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
>

Buchla modules integrate poorly with the
Doepfer/Blacet/Wiard/Paia/MOTM world. The Buchla modules use 0-15 volt
control voltages (0-10 volts on the later 200 series) and line level
audio signals. The pulse inputs expect a 15 volt trigger pulse and a
7.5 volt gate on the same cable. The scale is not 1 volt/octave but
1.2 volts/octvae on the 200e.

I wouldn't say there are grounding issues though. You can change all
of this with simple voltage processing, but it is more complicated
that adapter cables. 

Mark





--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@...> wrote:
>
> cool thanks. 
> 
> i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
> before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
> ask...
> 
> do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> 1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
modulars.
> 
> thanks,
> --david
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> >
> > At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
> > >rack ears?
> > 
> > The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
> there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are any)
> > 
> > -C
> > 
> > -- 
> > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
quo.

> > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> >
>

At 9:31 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
>do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
>any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
>1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
>question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern modulars.

Keep in mind that my knowledge is theoretical. I have a Buchla system on order, but don't yet have it in hand.

You would definitely need a good source of ground. A banana jack on the back would probably do. I don't know how Buchla handles this.

Electrically, Buchla's "standards" pre-date the currently accepted "standards" of 1V/oct, etc.

Buchla uses 1.2 V/oct (.1v / semitone), so some gain or attenuation will need to take place for pitch CVs (gain to drive Buchla from 1V./oct, attenuation going the other way)

I'm still a little confused about the Buchla pulse world. From some things that I've read, in common terms, it seems like a trigger signal is imposed onto a gate signal for the pulse jacks.

If I was you, and I had any FracRack space left, I would probably make a custom patch panel, that had a bunch of banana jacks wired to 1/8" jacks, and would put whatever signal conditioning I needed there. I suppose this could also go in a Buchla boat, but that space is more pricey than FracRack space.

-C
-- 
Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno

Thanks for the info. more to think about...

--david

--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@...> wrote:
>
> At 9:31 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> >do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> >any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> >1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> >question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
modulars.
> 
> Keep in mind that my knowledge is theoretical. I have a Buchla
system on order, but don't yet have it in hand.
> 
> You would definitely need a good source of ground. A banana jack on
the back would probably do. I don't know how Buchla handles this.
> 
> Electrically, Buchla's "standards" pre-date the currently accepted
"standards" of 1V/oct, etc.
> 
> Buchla uses 1.2 V/oct (.1v / semitone), so some gain or attenuation
will need to take place for pitch CVs (gain to drive Buchla from
1V./oct, attenuation going the other way)
> 
> I'm still a little confused about the Buchla pulse world. From some
things that I've read, in common terms, it seems like a trigger signal
is imposed onto a gate signal for the pulse jacks.
> 
> If I was you, and I had any FracRack space left, I would probably
make a custom patch panel, that had a bunch of banana jacks wired to
1/8" jacks, and would put whatever signal conditioning I needed there.
I suppose this could also go in a Buchla boat, but that space is more
pricey than FracRack space.

> 
> -C
> -- 
> Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status quo.
> cbm@...         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
>

Just another opinion from the peanut gallery, from someone who doesn't
have a 200e, but has some experience with older Buchla systems...

Don't even try to interface/interconnect your Buchla system to other
systems - you will waste many years of your life...!  

The simplest way to get external pitches to the 200e is going to be
midi.  A device, such as an Analog Systems AS300 cv to midi converter
will do the trick.  It will convert your CVs and gate/trigger
information perfectly to the 200e's liking.  And vise versa for going
the other way, back to the Frac synth.

Years ago (1876!), at Calarts, I would bring my 9 panel Serge into the
electronic music studios at Calarts, in which a really large Buchla
system was the central system.  To make a long story short, I found
myself spending all my time messing around with the processors,
contantly tweaking the rescaling of signal between the two.

It's like having two really beautiful rooms, but you are spending all
of your time in the hallway, never really enjoying one or the other...

Of course, that's just my opinion - I could be wrong!

Gary


--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. more to think about...
> 
> --david
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> >
> > At 9:31 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > >do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> > >any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> > >1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> > >question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
> modulars.
> > 
> > Keep in mind that my knowledge is theoretical. I have a Buchla
> system on order, but don't yet have it in hand.
> > 
> > You would definitely need a good source of ground. A banana jack on
> the back would probably do. I don't know how Buchla handles this.
> > 
> > Electrically, Buchla's "standards" pre-date the currently accepted
> "standards" of 1V/oct, etc.
> > 
> > Buchla uses 1.2 V/oct (.1v / semitone), so some gain or attenuation
> will need to take place for pitch CVs (gain to drive Buchla from
> 1V./oct, attenuation going the other way)
> > 
> > I'm still a little confused about the Buchla pulse world. From some
> things that I've read, in common terms, it seems like a trigger signal
> is imposed onto a gate signal for the pulse jacks.
> > 
> > If I was you, and I had any FracRack space left, I would probably
> make a custom patch panel, that had a bunch of banana jacks wired to
> 1/8" jacks, and would put whatever signal conditioning I needed there.
> I suppose this could also go in a Buchla boat, but that space is more
> pricey than FracRack space.
> > 
> > -C
> > -- 
> > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
quo.

> > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> >
>

I agree partially.

However, getting a nice, clean sawtooth wave from my Serge and 
feeding it into a 292e gives me a sound I just can't get from the 
Serge alone (or the Buchla alone, for that matter). Also, playing my 
Buchla with my Serge TKB is an awesome experience (I don't think 
I'll get the new Thunder thingie. My TKB does everything I need!)


cuari7

--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> wrote:
>
> Just another opinion from the peanut gallery, from someone who 
doesn't
> have a 200e, but has some experience with older Buchla systems...
> 
> Don't even try to interface/interconnect your Buchla system to 
other
> systems - you will waste many years of your life...!  
> 
> The simplest way to get external pitches to the 200e is going to be
> midi.  A device, such as an Analog Systems AS300 cv to midi 
converter
> will do the trick.  It will convert your CVs and gate/trigger
> information perfectly to the 200e's liking.  And vise versa for 
going
> the other way, back to the Frac synth.
> 
> Years ago (1876!), at Calarts, I would bring my 9 panel Serge into 
the
> electronic music studios at Calarts, in which a really large Buchla
> system was the central system.  To make a long story short, I found
> myself spending all my time messing around with the processors,
> contantly tweaking the rescaling of signal between the two.
> 
> It's like having two really beautiful rooms, but you are spending 
all
> of your time in the hallway, never really enjoying one or the 
other...
> 
> Of course, that's just my opinion - I could be wrong!
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the info. more to think about...
> > 
> > --david
> > 
> > --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At 9:31 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > > >do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? 
are there
> > > >any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some 
banana to
> > > >1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the 
basic
> > > >question is how well does the buchla work with the other 
modern
> > modulars.
> > > 
> > > Keep in mind that my knowledge is theoretical. I have a Buchla
> > system on order, but don't yet have it in hand.
> > > 
> > > You would definitely need a good source of ground. A banana 
jack on
> > the back would probably do. I don't know how Buchla handles this.
> > > 
> > > Electrically, Buchla's "standards" pre-date the currently 
accepted
> > "standards" of 1V/oct, etc.
> > > 
> > > Buchla uses 1.2 V/oct (.1v / semitone), so some gain or 
attenuation
> > will need to take place for pitch CVs (gain to drive Buchla from
> > 1V./oct, attenuation going the other way)
> > > 
> > > I'm still a little confused about the Buchla pulse world. From 
some
> > things that I've read, in common terms, it seems like a trigger 
signal
> > is imposed onto a gate signal for the pulse jacks.
> > > 
> > > If I was you, and I had any FracRack space left, I would 
probably
> > make a custom patch panel, that had a bunch of banana jacks 
wired to
> > 1/8" jacks, and would put whatever signal conditioning I needed 
there.
> > I suppose this could also go in a Buchla boat, but that space is 
more
> > pricey than FracRack space.
> > > 
> > > -C
> > > -- 
> > > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one 
status

> quo.
> > > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> > >
> >
>

> Years ago (1876!), at Calarts, I would bring my 9 panel Serge into 
the
> electronic music studios at Calarts, in which a really large Buchla
> system was the central system.  

Wow, Gary, and were you ever commisioned music for the first 
Centennial of the USA?

Serge tcherepnin must have been awful' young back then....!



;-P

Up front, I apologize for my off-topicness....

No cenntenial commisions, 1976 - not ready for primetime yet....

I built my Serge system in the summer of 1976 while living at Serge's
Lab, above a massage parlor on Western Avenue!  It was the summer in
the middle of my MFA studies.  

FWIW, I am indebted to Serge for his wisdom and candor during period
of time.  Perhaps not often mentioned, Serge has a very pedigree
musical upbringing - his grandfather, Alexander Tcherepnin, the
notable Russian piano composer, his father. Nicolai Tcherepnin, who
was a composer-in-residence for the Chicago Symphony, and his mother,
a Shanghai Chinese Pianist who lived in France.  Studies with Nadia
Boulanger (he studied with her during the time when Quincy Jones
Studied with her!), and his ties to the Darmstadt crew makes him one
of the last of a dying breed of the post WWII avant garde.  When it
comes down to it, he was brought up in the ranks of Carlos and Glass,
but came out to California to Calarts, building Mort special custom
boxes, and, eventually creating his bathtub-gin version of the modular
synthesizer....  

For not knowing this young student from Pittsburgh, PA (e.i., me),
Serge was quite generous to let me stay in the back room of the lab
for 2 months, though, to be honest, it wasn't the most pleasant
neighborhood - porno movie theaters and a rather motley crew loitering
on the street nightly.  My only sense of security was the next door
neighbors, who were a metal rock band - they had a shot gun....

Serge was fascinated with all of the little idiomatic statements of my
chatter at the time, such as, 

"that really blows a dead dog!" and 
"lick the street" or 
"that's better that me dragged from the back of a truck!"

He finally came up with one of his own, speaking in his thick French
accent;

"Fuck a Duck on a Crutch!"

Perhaps this says it all about Serge...!


gary



"cuari7" <cuari7@...> wrote:

> 
> Wow, Gary, and were you ever commisioned music for the first 
> Centennial of the USA?
> 
> Serge tcherepnin must have been awful' young back then....!
> 
> 
> 
> ;-P
>

Great story, man!




- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Chang" <gchang@...> wrote:
>
> Up front, I apologize for my off-topicness....
> 
> No cenntenial commisions, 1976 - not ready for primetime yet....
> 
> I built my Serge system in the summer of 1976 while living at 
Serge's
> Lab, above a massage parlor on Western Avenue!  It was the summer 
in
> the middle of my MFA studies.  
> 
> FWIW, I am indebted to Serge for his wisdom and candor during 
period
> of time.  Perhaps not often mentioned, Serge has a very pedigree
> musical upbringing - his grandfather, Alexander Tcherepnin, the
> notable Russian piano composer, his father. Nicolai Tcherepnin, who
> was a composer-in-residence for the Chicago Symphony, and his 
mother,
> a Shanghai Chinese Pianist who lived in France.  Studies with Nadia
> Boulanger (he studied with her during the time when Quincy Jones
> Studied with her!), and his ties to the Darmstadt crew makes him 
one
> of the last of a dying breed of the post WWII avant garde.  When it
> comes down to it, he was brought up in the ranks of Carlos and 
Glass,
> but came out to California to Calarts, building Mort special custom
> boxes, and, eventually creating his bathtub-gin version of the 
modular
> synthesizer....  
> 
> For not knowing this young student from Pittsburgh, PA (e.i., me),
> Serge was quite generous to let me stay in the back room of the lab
> for 2 months, though, to be honest, it wasn't the most pleasant
> neighborhood - porno movie theaters and a rather motley crew 
loitering
> on the street nightly.  My only sense of security was the next door
> neighbors, who were a metal rock band - they had a shot gun....
> 
> Serge was fascinated with all of the little idiomatic statements 
of my
> chatter at the time, such as, 
> 
> "that really blows a dead dog!" and 
> "lick the street" or 
> "that's better that me dragged from the back of a truck!"
> 
> He finally came up with one of his own, speaking in his thick 
French

> accent;
> 
> "Fuck a Duck on a Crutch!"
> 
> Perhaps this says it all about Serge...!
> 
> 
> gary
> 
> 
> 
> "cuari7" <cuari7@> wrote:
>   
> > 
> > Wow, Gary, and were you ever commisioned music for the first 
> > Centennial of the USA?
> > 
> > Serge tcherepnin must have been awful' young back then....!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ;-P
> >
>

hi david!

hi list! i am finally compelled to join yahoo groups. oh well. 

here are my answers to these questions:

- there are in fact a couple of things sticking out the top of the
powered boats (the power switch and memory card socket). the boats are
3.2 inches deep. so you can either put something narrower than that on
above it in the rack, or make some modifications to the boat and power
supply (which i could help describe in detail if anyone is interested
in doing this).

- it's not difficult to interface the 200e voltages with other systems
as long as you a)account for the 0-10 volt buchla standard, and b)
ground the systems together; this can be easily accomplished using
e.g. one of the 1/8" audio outputs.

hope that helps!

-eb 


--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@...> wrote:
>
> cool thanks. 
> 
> i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
> before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
> ask...
> 
> do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> 1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
modulars.
> 
> thanks,
> --david
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> >
> > At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
> > >rack ears?
> > 
> > The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
> there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are any)
> > 
> > -C
> > 
> > -- 
> > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
quo.

> > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> >
>

on second glance, i think i misunderstood yr intent. you are wondering
about installing 200e modules in an existing frac-rack enclosure (e.g.
http://www.paia.com/fracrak.htm ?), presumably with its own power
supply? this would be very difficult because 200e modules have
somewhat specialized power needs; for example, our supplies contain
dedicated rails for bussing data streams between modules and for
updating firmware. it would be much more advisable to get one of our
2- or 4-panel boats and work that into yr setup somehow.

-eb



--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@...> wrote:
>
> cool thanks. 
> 
> i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
> before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
> ask...
> 
> do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> 1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
modulars.
> 
> thanks,
> --david
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> >
> > At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with the 19"
> > >rack ears?
> > 
> > The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
> there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are any)
> > 
> > -C
> > 
> > -- 
> > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
quo.

> > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> >
>

Hi Ezra!

I don't know if you remember, we emailed back and forth a bit about
building 200 series modules from schematics a few years ago. I ran
accross your band on Myspace. I like the music.

anyway, welcome


Mark





--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "ezra.buchla" <ezra.buchla@...> wrote:
>
> hi david!
> 
> hi list! i am finally compelled to join yahoo groups. oh well. 
> 
> here are my answers to these questions:
> 
> - there are in fact a couple of things sticking out the top of the
> powered boats (the power switch and memory card socket). the boats are
> 3.2 inches deep. so you can either put something narrower than that on
> above it in the rack, or make some modifications to the boat and power
> supply (which i could help describe in detail if anyone is interested
> in doing this).
> 
> - it's not difficult to interface the 200e voltages with other systems
> as long as you a)account for the 0-10 volt buchla standard, and b)
> ground the systems together; this can be easily accomplished using
> e.g. one of the 1/8" audio outputs.
> 
> hope that helps!
> 
> -eb 
> 
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@> wrote:
> >
> > cool thanks. 
> > 
> > i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
> > before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
> > ask...
> > 
> > do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> > any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> > 1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> > question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
> modulars.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > --david
> > 
> > --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > > >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with
the 19"
> > > >rack ears?
> > > 
> > > The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
> > there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are
any)

> > > 
> > > -C
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
> quo.
> > > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> > >
> >
>

hi Ezra,

thanks for the reply. i was not thinking of trying to use the blacet
P/S for the buchla modules but was thinking what you suggested --
adding them to my existing set-up using a powered boat, which is why i
asked about the rack stuff. though it might be cool to use a 6 powered
boat and use it separately.

and to be more specific as far as compatibility goes i was thinking of
getting a 227e & a 250e to start. so i was wondering how the audio,
control and pulse/gate signals would work together. i.e would i have
to attenuate the frac audio signals to avoid distorting the inputs of
the 227e and how well would the frac CV signals control the buchla
modules. i.e could i generate a clock signal that would run the 250e,
use a MOTM eg to control the spatial dynamics on the 227e etc. and the
last part would be regarding the pulse/gate signals coming out of the
250e. would they work as is to trigger the frac envelopes, sequencer
clock etc?

sorry for being so long winded... but i have no way at the moment to
try i out before hand.

best,
--david


--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "ezra.buchla" <ezra.buchla@...> wrote:
>
> on second glance, i think i misunderstood yr intent. you are wondering
> about installing 200e modules in an existing frac-rack enclosure (e.g.
> http://www.paia.com/fracrak.htm ?), presumably with its own power
> supply? this would be very difficult because 200e modules have
> somewhat specialized power needs; for example, our supplies contain
> dedicated rails for bussing data streams between modules and for
> updating firmware. it would be much more advisable to get one of our
> 2- or 4-panel boats and work that into yr setup somehow.
> 
> -eb
> 
> 
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "david rothbaum" <david@> wrote:
> >
> > cool thanks. 
> > 
> > i also have another question. while it has probably been answered
> > before my search of this list did not come up with anything so i will
> > ask...
> > 
> > do the buchla modules incorporate well into a frac system? are there
> > any weird issues with grounding if you were to make some banana to
> > 1/8' cables? differences with the control voltages etc. the basic
> > question is how well does the buchla work with the other modern
> modulars.
> > 
> > thanks,
> > --david
> > 
> > --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At 6:32 PM +0000 5/14/06, david rothbaum wrote:
> > > >I was wondering how many spaces the 4 powered boat uses with
the 19"
> > > >rack ears?
> > > 
> > > The modules are 7" high, so it would take four spaces, assuming
> > there were no connectors on the top. (I don't think that there are
any)

> > > 
> > > -C
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Chris Muir           | "There are many futures and only one status
> quo.
> > > cbm@         |  This is why conservatives mostly agree,
> > > http://www.xfade.com |  and radicals always argue." - Brian Eno
> > >
> >
>