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(Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

(Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-20 by gravkitty

Official Question 1:
Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

Official Question 2:
Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.

I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.

I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels. From there, to a recorder.

I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best vote (the Ion gets worst)

Sorry if this is rambling...

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by Peter Korsten

Op 21-2-2010 0:47, gravkitty schreef:

> Official Question 1:
> Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

Because headphones are not amplified?

> Official Question 2:
> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

Why would you want to record from the headphones, if you have proper 
left and right outputs? Your mixer should be able to take care of 
pre-amplification.

- Peter

Re: [english 100%] [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by Malte Krug

Am 21.02.2010, 00:47 Uhr, schrieb gravkitty <gravcat@...>:


> Official Question 2:
> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for  
> recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4  
> max volume.


Hi,

for recording you should always push the volume full up, so the  
DAconverters are handling the instrument's full dynamics. Reduces  
hisslevel, too.
Recordinglevels should be handled by your mixer's gainpots and levelfaders.

cu
Malte

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by jammie

becuase it has its own amplifier so can amplify high than line outs

the line outs are unbalanced and so are the lower volume of the line out spec balanced outs are +4dbu

if i remember right on the standard line level is -10dbu in a mixer this is not a problem as you use the trim pots to bring it to the same level as the balanced equipement

i never understood this to me any keyboard that was over £1000 should have had balanced out puts but it was only the pro audio equipment that got it costing£3000 and over at the time

now days tho you will find balanced out puts on cheap synths as well as dear synths 

i liked the old korgs as they had a switch on the back that you could switch from low to medium to hot outputs

this also depended on the mixer you used as the cheaper mixers never had balanced inputs or trim pots so it would of been wastefull
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gravkitty 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:47 PM
  Subject: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...


    
  Official Question 1:
  Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

  Official Question 2:
  Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

  Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.

  I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.

  I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels. From there, to a recorder.

  I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best vote (the Ion gets worst)

  Sorry if this is rambling...



  


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Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by jammie

you should have your synths outputs at full as this will have the least amount of noise floor you use the mixer to bring down levels otherwise if you have to turn up mixer channels to get the correct level then you will add noise as you are amplifiying the lower sound always have it at full as the synth manufacturers have made it so it can play at full volumee with out distorting it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gravkitty 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:47 PM
  Subject: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...


    
  Official Question 1:
  Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

  Official Question 2:
  Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

  Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.

  I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.

  I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels. From there, to a recorder.

  I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best vote (the Ion gets worst)

  Sorry if this is rambling...



  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2699 - Release Date: 02/20/10 07:34:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [english 100%] [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by jammie

the head phones out puts are just to give you a listen the outputs from the 
synth are cleaner and have less hiss

you can get a lot off distortion from recording from head phones out puts as 
they dont use the best pre amps for this out put
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Malte Krug" <pajacke@...>
To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [english 100%] [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to 
why...


> Am 21.02.2010, 00:47 Uhr, schrieb gravkitty <gravcat@...>:
>
>
>> Official Question 2:
>> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for
>> recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4
>> max volume.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> for recording you should always push the volume full up, so the
> DAconverters are handling the instrument's full dynamics. Reduces
> hisslevel, too.
> Recordinglevels should be handled by your mixer's gainpots and 
> levelfaders.
>
> cu
> Malte
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
>  Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
>
> The AN1x Control Synthesizer FAQ::
>  http://www.geocities.com/jondl_2000/an1x_faq/an1x_faq_toc.htm
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2700 - Release Date: 02/20/10 
19:34:00

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by Jeff

Hi !
the output impedance is much lower on the phones output than on the line 
output, even if the levels (in volts) are not very different*. The low 
impedance output can keep a high level even loaded with few ohms.
Cheers.
J.F.
*Some kind of motorcycle comparison : level would be "equivalent" to 
BHP, output impedance to torque. Plumber comparison : level is the 
pressure, output impedance is the flow.I know this is awful for an 
electronician but ...
gravkitty a \ufffdcrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Official Question 1:
> Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?
>
> Official Question 2:
> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for 
> recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 
> max volume.
>
> Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I 
> don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I 
> suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an 
> amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the 
> bedroom though.
>
> I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed 
> something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was 
> way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the 
> cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found 
> the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the 
> mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.
>
> I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a 
> broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the 
> mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into 
> there own channels. From there, to a recorder.
>
> I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my 
> best vote (the Ion gets worst)
>
> Sorry if this is rambling...
>
>

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by Bob S.

Here is my 2 cents as an EE.....

Headphone outputs are generally amplified in order to drive enough level into the lower impedance of headphones.  The amplifier used in the headphone circuit is generally of higher distortion and noise than the line outs.  If you are trying to get the lowest noise signal, stick with the line outs.  The added small amount of distortion gives the synth signal the audible drive, presence or hotness, even if the levels are the same.  However, the headphone out is capable of greater output voltage than the line outs.  As you move away from the recommended input levels of your recording equipment, it too is going to have increase distortion and for a synth, this is like compression on drums, a signal that stands out.  I many times add a small amount of distortion to a synth signal to give it more presence while there are many genre's that the distortion is not wanted.....there is no harm in using the headphone output but it is not the least noise and cleanest place to start...

Bob
El Segundo, CA



-----Original Message-----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: Jeff <jf.serviere@...>
>Sent: Feb 21, 2010 4:16 PM
>To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...
>
>Hi !
>the output impedance is much lower on the phones output than on the line 
>output, even if the levels (in volts) are not very different*. The low 
>impedance output can keep a high level even loaded with few ohms.
>Cheers.
>J.F.
>*Some kind of motorcycle comparison : level would be "equivalent" to 
>BHP, output impedance to torque. Plumber comparison : level is the 
>pressure, output impedance is the flow.I know this is awful for an 
>electronician but ...
>gravkitty a écrit :
>>
>> Official Question 1:
>> Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?
>>
>> Official Question 2:
>> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for 
>> recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 
>> max volume.
>>
>> Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I 
>> don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I 
>> suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an 
>> amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the 
>> bedroom though.
>>
>> I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed 
>> something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was 
>> way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the 
>> cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found 
>> the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the 
>> mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.
>>
>> I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a 
>> broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the 
>> mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into 
>> there own channels. From there, to a recorder.
>>
>> I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my 
>> best vote (the Ion gets worst)
>>
>> Sorry if this is rambling...
>>
>> 
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>  Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
>
>The AN1x Control Synthesizer FAQ::
>  http://www.geocities.com/jondl_2000/an1x_faq/an1x_faq_toc.htm
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by gravkitty

Thanks everyone. I guess that was kind of silly, sorry. The difference between the an1x and an200 is interesting. The an200 seems a little 'lighter' or 'thinner', still using the presets though...

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "gravkitty" <gravcat@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Official Question 1:
> Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?
> 
> Official Question 2:
> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.
> 
> Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.
> 
> I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.
> 
> I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels. From there, to a recorder.
> 
> I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best vote (the Ion gets worst)
> 
> Sorry if this is rambling...
>

RE: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-21 by Ed Edwards

Jeff’s answer was pretty good.  Here’s my try at it:

 

The danger is that each output needs to have a load equal to its needs.  A
see-saw with a fat kid on one side might launch the skinny kid into orbit.
So if you’ve got headphone levels of wattage (voltage times current) it is
meant to push the heavy load of the 32 ohm headphone speakers.  Now the
confusing thing is the impedance.  As the impedance DECREASES the wattage
necessary to do the work INCREASES.  So the 32 ohm impedance at the
headphone jack has a lot of wattage available.  On the other jacks, the line
levels, the impedance is (maybe this helps, warning- technical:
http://artsites.ucsc.edu/EMS/music/tech_background/TE-15/teces_15.html)
about 3000 ohms.  So you need much less wattage to get the signal into the
next device.  Putting headphone levels into line level inputs can literally
burn them up due to the excess.  If you could read the schematic, you would
see that the line level signals are sent to an extra stage of amplification
to produce the headphone outputs.  So stick with what balances the impedance
see-saw.

 

Ed²

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of gravkitty
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:48 PM
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

 

  

Official Question 1:
Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

Official Question 2:
Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording
in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't
understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a
live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take
care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.

I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed
something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way
lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and
connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I
have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to
get a birds eye view on the situation.

I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad
expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha
MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels.
From there, to a recorder.

I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best
vote (the Ion gets worst)

Sorry if this is rambling...



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2691 - Release Date: 02/20/10
02:34:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-22 by audiomad99@aol.com

the headphone out has a different spec than the line outs 
line outs are prolly -10 db unbalanced 600 ohms 
and the headphone out is most def made to match the ohms in a set of headphones (the sony 7502 are 24 ohms BIG difference ) plus the amp stage for the headphone output is made for headphones and not line out spec,....
hope that helps
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: gravkitty <gravcat@...>
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 20, 2010 6:47 pm
Subject: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...


  
    
                  
Official Question 1:
Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?

Official Question 2:
Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.

Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which would take care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.

I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the cables and connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in order to get a birds eye view on the situation.

I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels. From there, to a recorder.

I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my best vote (the Ion gets worst)

Sorry if this is rambling...


    
             

  
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...

2010-02-22 by Jeff

Thanks Ed !
For i don't know what is the technical background of people on this 
forum (i fell like some guys have a good one but...) i try to keep it 
simple with everyday's life comparisons. If possible, sometimes it can 
be hard to find a good one...
Cheers.
J.F.

Ed Edwards a \ufffdcrit :
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Jeff\ufffds answer was pretty good. Here\ufffds my try at it:
>
> The danger is that each output needs to have a load equal to its needs. A
> see-saw with a fat kid on one side might launch the skinny kid into orbit.
> So if you\ufffdve got headphone levels of wattage (voltage times current) it is
> meant to push the heavy load of the 32 ohm headphone speakers. Now the
> confusing thing is the impedance. As the impedance DECREASES the wattage
> necessary to do the work INCREASES. So the 32 ohm impedance at the
> headphone jack has a lot of wattage available. On the other jacks, the 
> line
> levels, the impedance is (maybe this helps, warning- technical:
> http://artsites.ucsc.edu/EMS/music/tech_background/TE-15/teces_15.html 
> <http://artsites.ucsc.edu/EMS/music/tech_background/TE-15/teces_15.html>)
> about 3000 ohms. So you need much less wattage to get the signal into the
> next device. Putting headphone levels into line level inputs can literally
> burn them up due to the excess. If you could read the schematic, you would
> see that the line level signals are sent to an extra stage of 
> amplification
> to produce the headphone outputs. So stick with what balances the 
> impedance
> see-saw.
>
> Ed\ufffd
>
> _____
>
> From: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AN1x-list%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:AN1x-list%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of gravkitty
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 6:48 PM
> To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AN1x-list%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [AN1x] (Headphone/LineOuts) Confused as to why...
>
> Official Question 1:
> Why is the headphone output hotter than the actual line outs?
>
> Official Question 2:
> Are there any issues for prolonged use of the headphone outs for recording
> in a home studio scenario? I never push any synth beyond 3/4 max volume.
>
> Is there some, not in the manual, aspect/reasoning behind this? I don't
> understand, it seems to me(IMHO), it should be the reverse. I suppose in a
> live sound application, the line outs would go to an amp/pa which 
> would take
> care of the issue. I'm just a guy in the bedroom though.
>
> I'm trying really hard to stay on track with FAWM.org, and I noticed
> something I recorded (using an1x, sh32 and an200) that the AN200 was way
> lighter than it should have been. This caused me to doubt all the 
> cables and
> connections, so I rigorously unplugged everything. Found the best cables I
> have and ran thru all the equipment 'outs', all the mixer 'ins', in 
> order to
> get a birds eye view on the situation.
>
> I have the AN1X midi out to the AN-200 then SH-32(good combo for a broad
> expansive sound), My Pk-6 is just going straight into the mixer(Yamaha
> MG10/2). The an1x, an200 and sh32 are all going into there own channels.
> >From there, to a recorder.
>
> I gotta say, the action on the AN1X keyboard is so awesome, it gets my 
> best
> vote (the Ion gets worst)
>
> Sorry if this is rambling...
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2691 - Release Date: 02/20/10
> 02:34:00
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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