The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

FYI - there's a Press Release on Harmony Central regarding 
Yamaha's OPT 
http://www.harmony-central.com/News/2002/Open-Plug-In-Tech
nology.html

I don't quite understand what benefit this offers that isn't already 
accounted for via MIDI, VST FX and VSTi's? Hmm...

Jon

From: "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@...>

> FYI - there's a Press Release on Harmony Central regarding
> Yamaha's OPT
> http://www.harmony-central.com/News/2002/Open-Plug-In-Tech
> nology.html
>
> I don't quite understand what benefit this offers that isn't already
> accounted for via MIDI, VST FX and VSTi's? Hmm...

What I don't like about it is that using COM precludes the word 'Open'.
Phrases like 'industry standard' also make me fret.

- Peter

VST/VSTi and DXi formats are primarily Audio plugin formats. Their
handling of MIDI is actually quite limited.

OPT is primarily designed to provide MIDI plugins to third party
sequencers. i.e. it is not competitive to VSTi/DXi, but complimentary.

From Yamahas viewpoint the overall aim is to simplify the integration of
external hardware into third party sequencer environments i.e. to make
external hardware as seamless to use as softsynths.

OPT provides access to client sequencer MIDI services (including direct
access to events stored within sequencer tracks, timing information,
MIDI ports and transport/status functions etc).

OPT is divided into 3 levels of support:

Level 1 - Panels: Basic control panels that can transmit data via client
sequencers MIDI ports. e.g. simple device editors/librarians etc

Level2 - Processors: Access to client real-time and offline event
queues. Allows automation of Level 1 panels plus real-time/offline MIDI
effect effects (arpeggiators, tempo delays, auto-accompaniments etc)

Level3 - Views: Direct access to client track, block event structures
(including master track and selections etc). This allows editors to be
written that can do almost anything a native sequencer editor can do
(e.g List views, Piano rolls etc). However it is intended that views be
supplied that augment the features of existing client editors (for
example Yamaha has a list view that utilises an OPT database component,
to interpret all Yamaha device sysex, NRPNs, RPNs etc into plain English
parameters. So instead of seeing F0 43 4C.... etc you see: Variation
Effect: Amp Simulation). In this way you can edit the parameters in a
more intuitive way, rather than attempting to perform rocket science on
meaningless bytes! Furthermore the view can perform search back, such
that it can interpret data contextually (e.g. come up with the correct
parameter name and values for a given effect program).

Similarly you can write complex device editors that can both extract and
insert MIDI setup data directly to client tracks etc. Essentially I
could write a version of XGedit/An1xEdit that runs within your sequencer
and stores all data directly to the sequencers tracks. No need for Hubi
pipes or import/export of MIDI files! 

In the limit, using OPT can you can produce a totally modular sequencer,
where you can pick and choose which views/editors you want and tailor
them to your setup!

The OPT SDK is available under a royalty free license from Yamaha. For a
copy contact: sibazaki@...

Regards

Gary Gregson

Email:gary@...
http://www.yme.co.uk/yme 

-----Original Message-----
From: jondl_2000 [mailto:jondl_2000@...] 
Sent: 03 April 2002 16:56
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x] OT: Yamaha Debuts New Open Plug-in Technology

FYI - there's a Press Release on Harmony Central regarding 
Yamaha's OPT 
http://www.harmony-central.com/News/2002/Open-Plug-In-Tech
nology.html

I don't quite understand what benefit this offers that isn't already 
accounted for via MIDI, VST FX and VSTi's? Hmm...

Jon

In a message dated 3/4/02 6:14:52 pm, peterk@... writes:

>What I don't like about it is that using COM precludes the word 'Open'.
>Phrases like 'industry standard' also make me fret.
>
Couldn't agree more LOL!- To me, 'Industry Standard' usually means- 'Really 
Boring'!!!

Tom

I guess Gary's down wit' OPT.  :)

Yeah you know me,
Elson



- 30 -
: . elson trinidad, los angeles, california, usa
: . elson@...  :  www.westworld.com/~elson
: . groove to the futurethnic beats of e:trinity at www.e-trinity.org and 
www.mp3.com/etrinity

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Gary Gregson" <gary@y...> wrote:
> VST/VSTi and DXi formats are primarily Audio plugin formats. 
Their
> handling of MIDI is actually quite limited.
> 
> OPT is primarily designed to provide MIDI plugins to third party
> sequencers. i.e. it is not competitive to VSTi/DXi, but 
complimentary.
> 
> From Yamahas viewpoint the overall aim is to simplify the 
integration of
> external hardware into third party sequencer environments i.e. 
to make
> external hardware as seamless to use as softsynths.
> 
> OPT provides access to client sequencer MIDI services 
(including direct
> access to events stored within sequencer tracks, timing 
information,
> MIDI ports and transport/status functions etc).
> 
> OPT is divided into 3 levels of support:

I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be similar to 
the Environment in Logic Audio. Is this based upon the old CAL 
language from Cakewalk?

> 
> Level 1 - Panels: Basic control panels that can transmit data 
via client
> sequencers MIDI ports. e.g. simple device editors/librarians 
etc
> 
> Level2 - Processors: Access to client real-time and offline 
event
> queues. Allows automation of Level 1 panels plus 
real-time/offline MIDI
> effect effects (arpeggiators, tempo delays, 
auto-accompaniments etc)
> 
> Level3 - Views: Direct access to client track, block event 
structures
> (including master track and selections etc). This allows editors 
to be
> written that can do almost anything a native sequencer editor 
can do
> (e.g List views, Piano rolls etc). However it is intended that 
views be
> supplied that augment the features of existing client editors (for
> example Yamaha has a list view that utilises an OPT database 
component,
> to interpret all Yamaha device sysex, NRPNs, RPNs etc into 
plain English
> parameters. So instead of seeing F0 43 4C.... etc you see: 
Variation
> Effect: Amp Simulation). In this way you can edit the 
parameters in a
> more intuitive way, rather than attempting to perform rocket 
science on
> meaningless bytes! Furthermore the view can perform search 
back, such
> that it can interpret data contextually (e.g. come up with the 
correct
> parameter name and values for a given effect program).
> 
> Similarly you can write complex device editors that can both 
extract and
> insert MIDI setup data directly to client tracks etc. Essentially I
> could write a version of XGedit/An1xEdit that runs within your 
sequencer
> and stores all data directly to the sequencers tracks. No need 
for Hubi
> pipes or import/export of MIDI files! 
> 

Okay, now I'm beginning to see some separation but, again, this 
reminds me of a 'universal' version of Logic Control. Perhaps I'm 
conceptualizing this incorrectly. Thanks for the details - I'll read 
up on this some more.

> In the limit, using OPT can you can produce a totally modular 
sequencer,
> where you can pick and choose which views/editors you want 
and tailor
> them to your setup!
> 

Analagous to Screen Sets...?

> The OPT SDK is available under a royalty free license from 
Yamaha. For a
> copy contact: sibazaki@e...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary Gregson
> 
> Email:gary@y...
> http://www.yme.co.uk/yme 
> 
regards,

Jon

 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jondl_2000 [mailto:jondl_2000@y...] 
> Sent: 03 April 2002 16:56
> To: AN1x-list@y...
> Subject: [AN1x] OT: Yamaha Debuts New Open Plug-in 
Technology
> 
> FYI - there's a Press Release on Harmony Central regarding 
> Yamaha's OPT 
> 
http://www.harmony-central.com/News/2002/Open-Plug-In-Tech
> nology.html
> 
> I don't quite understand what benefit this offers that isn't 
already 

> accounted for via MIDI, VST FX and VSTi's? Hmm...
> 
> Jon

--- In AN1x-list@y..., Elson Trinidad <elson@w...> wrote:
> I guess Gary's down wit' OPT.  :)
> 
> Yeah you know me,
> Elson
> 

ROFL! ha haha

Jon

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
> I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be similar to 
> the Environment in Logic Audio. 

That was my first thought as well...except, a version of AN1xedit 
that runs in your sequencer...hmmmmm :)

Tom

> --- In AN1x-list@y..., "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
>> I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be similar to
>> the Environment in Logic Audio.
> 
> That was my first thought as well...except, a version of AN1xedit
> that runs in your sequencer...hmmmmm :)
> 
> Tom

It would be an overkill to operate the 2 timbre of AN1x through an ext.
sequencer.

Kamy

A version of any synth/Sampler editor you choose inside your sequencer 
of choice is what appeals to me, no more hubis loopback devices to make 
Midi ports multiclient, I like the idea of getting the same kind of 
access to my 'real' synths as you get to a vsti.  From what I can see, 
OPT is a breath of life for 'hardware' midi devices.  Now we just have 
to wait for the programmers to come up with some neat stuff for us to 
use.

it probably does sound a bit like logic environments, but then again 
environments are a purely Logic thing, OPT is for everyone, and I'm sure 
that a long hard look would have been taken at the architectures that 
were available at the time of developing OPT, and the good bits would be 
taken into consideration.

Steinberg are giving SX buyers a load of Cakewalk midi plugins (Which I 
am sure will be useful) but the thing that bothers me most is that while 
VST is upgrading to version SX (at a price), while Sonar (Err, isn't 
that CAKEWALK Sonar?) isn't upgrading to a new version (Or price), but 
is adding support for OPT!

So, us steiny users will get a load of Cakewalk hand-me downs, while 
sonar users get shiny new OPT Plugin support :-(  (No doubt funded by 
the sale of Cakewalk midi plugins to Steinberg, LOL)



In article <a8h195+1kbj@...>, tomfinegan <tomfinegan@...> 
writes
>--- In AN1x-list@y..., "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
>> I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be similar to
>> the Environment in Logic Audio.
>
>That was my first thought as well...except, a version of AN1xedit
>that runs in your sequencer...hmmmmm :)
>
>Tom
-- 
See ya,

Reggie

--- In AN1x-list@y..., Kamy <kamy@e...> wrote:
> > --- In AN1x-list@y..., "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
> >> I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be 
similar to
> >> the Environment in Logic Audio.
> > 
> > That was my first thought as well...except, a version of 
AN1xedit
> > that runs in your sequencer...hmmmmm :)
> > 
> > Tom
> 
> It would be an overkill to operate the 2 timbre of AN1x through 
an ext.
> sequencer.
> 
> Kamy

How so? Why do you say that? Have you worked with any of the 
AN1x or PLG150AN Logic Environments? They're available from 
the Files section and from Swiftkick.com

Remember, we're discussing the ability to manipulate and store 
hardware specific SysEx in addition to MIDI CCs, RPNs, and 
NRPNs from within a sequence - something I contest can 
already be done today within a Logic Environment (or along 
similar lines with SoundDiver + Logic. Or even Galaxy + Vision 
for that matter.) To my way of thinking OPT = CAL but all "growed 
up" and I don't to see why Cubase users would favor this?

Jon

As a vst user I would favour OPT over nothing, because that is 
effectively what we have in VST for external Midi devices at the moment.

At the moment we have to use Hubis and another external midi 
application, which is a pain in the backside, and unnecessary.  WE can't 
use logic environments, but with OPT there is no need for external apps, 
so it will keep the system/midi overheads to a minimum too, plus 
providing more than just synth editing options.


In article <a8hol0+97l8@...>, jondl_2000 <jondl_2000@...> 
writes
>--- In AN1x-list@y..., Kamy <kamy@e...> wrote:
>> > --- In AN1x-list@y..., "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
>> >> I don't mean to sound facetious but this appears to be
>similar to
>> >> the Environment in Logic Audio.
>> >
>> > That was my first thought as well...except, a version of
>AN1xedit
>> > that runs in your sequencer...hmmmmm :)
>> >
>> > Tom
>>
>> It would be an overkill to operate the 2 timbre of AN1x through
>an ext.
>> sequencer.
>>
>> Kamy
>
>How so? Why do you say that? Have you worked with any of the
>AN1x or PLG150AN Logic Environments? They're available from
>the Files section and from Swiftkick.com
>
>Remember, we're discussing the ability to manipulate and store
>hardware specific SysEx in addition to MIDI CCs, RPNs, and
>NRPNs from within a sequence - something I contest can
>already be done today within a Logic Environment (or along
>similar lines with SoundDiver + Logic. Or even Galaxy + Vision
>for that matter.) To my way of thinking OPT = CAL but all "growed
>up" and I don't to see why Cubase users would favor this?
>
>Jon
>
>
>
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>

-- 
See ya,

Reggie

At 02:26 PM 4/4/02 +0100, Reggie wrote:
>   but the thing that bothers me most is that while
>VST is upgrading to version SX (at a price), while Sonar (Err, isn't
>that CAKEWALK Sonar?) isn't upgrading to a new version (Or price), but
>is adding support for OPT!

What do you mean? Sonar 2.0 has just been released. That's a new version 
right there.

>So, us steiny users will get a load of Cakewalk hand-me downs, while
>sonar users get shiny new OPT Plugin support :-(

I personally would end that sentence with a " : - ) "

Elson  |   e:trinity
Hardcore Sonar user


- 30 -
: . elson trinidad, los angeles, california, usa
: . elson@...  :  www.westworld.com/~elson
: . groove to the futurethnic beats of e:trinity at www.e-trinity.org and 
www.mp3.com/etrinity

In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020404112521.00a24d90@...>, 
Elson Trinidad <elson@...> writes
>At 02:26 PM 4/4/02 +0100, Reggie wrote:
>>   but the thing that bothers me most is that while
>>VST is upgrading to version SX (at a price), while Sonar (Err, isn't
>>that CAKEWALK Sonar?) isn't upgrading to a new version (Or price), but
>>is adding support for OPT!
>
>What do you mean? Sonar 2.0 has just been released. That's a new version
>right there.
Sorry, I didn't realise it had been updated, do you have to pay for the 
update?


>
>>So, us steiny users will get a load of Cakewalk hand-me downs, while
>>sonar users get shiny new OPT Plugin support :-(
>
>I personally would end that sentence with a " : - ) "
You must be a Sonar user.


>
>Elson  |   e:trinity
>Hardcore Sonar user
>
>
>- 30 -
>: . elson trinidad, los angeles, california, usa
>: . elson@...  :  www.westworld.com/~elson
>: . groove to the futurethnic beats of e:trinity at www.e-trinity.org and
>www.mp3.com/etrinity
>
>
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
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>  Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
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>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

-- 
See ya,

Reggie

At 09:15 PM 4/4/02 +0100, Reggie wrote:
>
> >What do you mean? Sonar 2.0 has just been released. That's a new version
> >right there.
>Sorry, I didn't realise it had been updated, do you have to pay for the
>update?

Yeah, in my case, it was $79, depending on the previous product I owned and 
if I wanted the regular Sonar 2.0 or Sonar 2.0XL (with a couple extra 
plugins I didn't personally really need).


> >I personally would end that sentence with a " : - ) "
>You must be a Sonar user.
>

But of course. :)

> >
> >Elson  |   e:trinity
> >Hardcore Sonar user

  - 30 -
: . elson trinidad, los angeles, california, usa
: . elson@...  :  www.westworld.com/~elson
: . groove to the futurethnic beats of e:trinity at www.e-trinity.org and 
www.mp3.com/etrinity

--- In AN1x-list@y..., Reggie <reggie@t...> wrote:
> As a vst user I would favour OPT over nothing, because that is 
> effectively what we have in VST for external Midi devices at the 
moment.
> 
> At the moment we have to use Hubis and another external midi 
> application, which is a pain in the backside, and unnecessary.  
WE can't 
> use logic environments, but with OPT there is no need for 
external apps, 
> so it will keep the system/midi overheads to a minimum too, 
plus 
> providing more than just synth editing options.
> 

Okay *now* it's beginning to make sense to me :-)

 I didn't pick up on it in the previous posts but when you said 
"have to use Hubis and another external midi application, which 
is a pain in the backside" a little bell went off. We have a similar 
situation on the Mac OS with OMS, and FreeMIDI, as they serve a 
similar purpose as Hubis (inter application communication and 
a shared timing soure amongst other benefits.) It's getting long 
in the tooth after having been ignored by 'Gibcode' for so many 
years - I've (reluctantly) made a concious effort to move off OMS 
when and where possible and have centered everything around 
Logic Audio and a multiport MIDI Interface run in MTP Emulation 
mode (the next step is a proper Emagic MIDI Interface.)

regards,

Jon