The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

For coyright info go here:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/

If you're dealing with anyone else, collaborater, etc, use a lawyer.

Rainbow Jimmy
http://www.spaceanimals.com
http://www.mp3.com/spaceanimals

All,

It costs nothing to copyright a document or musical piece.  All you have to do is a) note that it is copyrighted somewhere on the document; and b) be able to prove that you actually copyrighted the item on a certain date.  The easiest way to accomplish b) is to print a copy of the document/music with the words "Copyright (C) 2003 by John E. Doe.  All rights reserved."  Then seal this up in an envelope, put a stamp on it, and mail it to yourself.  DO NOT open the envelope when you get it back from the post office; file it away in a safe or safe deposit box.  It will have a postmark and cancelled stamp on it, which is accepted in court as proof of date, should legal action be required at some point.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

Bruce Wahler schreef:
> 
> It costs nothing to copyright a document or musical piece.  All you have to do is a) note that it is copyrighted somewhere on the document; and b) be able to prove that you actually copyrighted the item on a certain date.  The easiest way to accomplish b) is to print a copy of the document/music with the words "Copyright (C) 2003 by John E. Doe.  All rights reserved."  Then seal this up in an envelope, put a stamp on it, and mail it to yourself.  DO NOT open the envelope when you get it back from the post office; file it away in a safe or safe deposit box.  It will have a postmark and cancelled stamp on it, which is accepted in court as proof of date, should legal action be required at some point.

Ah, the ever so popular Sealed Envelope Mailed To Yourself myth. This 
crops up every now and again on music related mailing lists. I usually 
write a small treatise listing the reasons why relying on this method is 
very unwise, but suffice to say that, legally speaking, this method has 
more holes in it than the average Iraqi armoured vehicle.

The *only* reliable way of proving that you wrote a particular piece of 
music on a certain date is to deposit it at a notary.

- Peter

Hi Peter,

Interesting.  I didn't find this method on the Web; it was given to me be an attorney friend, when I asked him about copyrights.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions™   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

At 12:58 AM 4/15/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>Bruce Wahler schreef:
>> 
>> It costs nothing to copyright a document or musical piece.  All you have to do is a) note that it is copyrighted somewhere on the document; and b) be able to prove that you actually copyrighted the item on a certain date.  The easiest way to accomplish b) is to print a copy of the document/music with the words "Copyright (C) 2003 by John E. Doe.  All rights reserved."  Then seal this up in an envelope, put a stamp on it, and mail it to yourself.  DO NOT open the envelope when you get it back from the post office; file it away in a safe or safe deposit box.  It will have a postmark and cancelled stamp on it, which is accepted in court as proof of date, should legal action be required at some point.
>
>Ah, the ever so popular Sealed Envelope Mailed To Yourself myth. This 
>crops up every now and again on music related mailing lists. I usually 
>write a small treatise listing the reasons why relying on this method is 
>very unwise, but suffice to say that, legally speaking, this method has 
>more holes in it than the average Iraqi armoured vehicle.
>
>The *only* reliable way of proving that you wrote a particular piece of 
>music on a certain date is to deposit it at a notary.
>
>- Peter
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "spaceanimals" 
<alciere@m...> wrote:
> For coyright info go here:
> 
> http://www.loc.gov/copyright/
> 
> If you're dealing with anyone else, collaborater, etc, use a 
lawyer.
> 
> Rainbow Jimmy
> http://www.spaceanimals.com
> http://www.mp3.com/spaceanimals

Here's another related link:

http://www.music-law.com/

Jon

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:47:26 -0400 Bruce Wahler wrote:

> Interesting.  I didn't find this method on the Web; it was given to
> me be an attorney friend, when I asked him about copyrights.

Hmm, that's interesting, since my wife is a lawyer. :) (Not that I've
asked her a lot about it, and she's in family law anyway.)

In the past, I've come up with several methods how to spoof the sealed
envelope routine, and I believe that this evidence would be thrown out
even before it made into the courtroom. In fact, most of the time I can't 
read the date stamp on an envelope.

Now, if your attorney friend has jurisprudence of court cases where this
was indeed accepted as evidence, we can conclude that it'll work in the
US. For other countries, and even the US, there's no harm in using a
notary. If you can afford a court battle, surely you must be able to
afford a notary.

- Peter
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get live updated General Election results and reports from http://www.di-ve.com

Another suggestion for those in the U.S. is simply to apply for a
copyright.  Burn the songs onto a CD, fill out a simple form, add a
small amount of money and mail.


rich


--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Peter Korsten <peterk@m...> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:47:26 -0400 Bruce Wahler wrote:
> 
> > Interesting.  I didn't find this method on the Web; it was given to
> > me be an attorney friend, when I asked him about copyrights.
> 
> Hmm, that's interesting, since my wife is a lawyer. :) (Not that I've
> asked her a lot about it, and she's in family law anyway.)
> 
> In the past, I've come up with several methods how to spoof the sealed
> envelope routine, and I believe that this evidence would be thrown out
> even before it made into the courtroom. In fact, most of the time I
can't 
> read the date stamp on an envelope.
> 
> Now, if your attorney friend has jurisprudence of court cases where this
> was indeed accepted as evidence, we can conclude that it'll work in the
> US. For other countries, and even the US, there's no harm in using a
> notary. If you can afford a court battle, surely you must be able to
> afford a notary.
> 
> - Peter
> -- 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get live updated General Election results and reports from
http://www.di-ve.com

Hi Peter,

>In the past, I've come up with several methods how to spoof the sealed
>envelope routine, and I believe that this evidence would be thrown out
>even before it made into the courtroom. In fact, most of the time I can't 
>read the date stamp on an envelope.
>
>Now, if your attorney friend has jurisprudence of court cases where this
>was indeed accepted as evidence, we can conclude that it'll work in the
>US. For other countries, and even the US, there's no harm in using a
>notary. If you can afford a court battle, surely you must be able to
>afford a notary.

I don't disagree with your suggestion of using a notary; it's a good one.  My only point was that you initially said something like, "Oh boy, here we go again with that Internet legend about mailing a song to yourself," and I was pointing out that if it is indeed a legend, then its roots are not necessarily from the Internet.  I received this advice several years ago, long before the Internet was intertwined in our daily lives.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

>b) be able to prove that you actually copyrighted the item on a certain
date.  The easiest way to accomplish b) is to print >a copy of the
document/music with the words "Copyright (C) 2003 by John E. Doe.  All
rights reserved."  Then seal this >up in an envelope, put a stamp on it, and
mail it to yourself.  DO NOT open the envelope when you get it back from the
>post office; file it away in a safe or safe deposit box.  It will have a
postmark and cancelled stamp on it, which is >accepted in court as proof of
date, should legal action be required at some point.

This is however no real evidence that the music/text in the envelope is
yours, just that you had access to it at a certain date (which probably will
be enough, unless someone else have heard your track in progress and stolen
parts of it before your track was finnished.)

/Patrik

----
The primary purpose of wings is to prevent flight