AVR-Chat

What you're asking here, Philippe, is an awful lot of work for the 
moderators.  I'm not one here, but do moderate others and have moderated 
several over the years.

I don't know about the others, but I get a bit frustrated with those who 
want someone else to do the work for their gig...whether it's a work 
project, commercial product, hobby project, or school work.  Apparently 
you've run into the same kinds of people over the years.

It's easy to just not reply, but perhaps you haven't been around this 
list long enough to see those who, when they don't get anyone to answer 
their question, continue to post it.  To be sure, there are means to 
address that issue...but it also requires a bit more work on the part of 
the moderators.  They're volunteers.  Do they deserve to get dumped on 
like that?  I don't think so...better for the list to handle the situation.

I don't recall anyone getting particularly nasty with any of the goobers 
who've come looking for information that's easily obtained within the 
first 10 pages of the datasheets, but we could have.  There have been 
some, like the last person who came to the list looking for code, who 
just don't seem to be able to comprehend RTFMC before they ask for 
additional information.  They aren't willing to do any of the work 
themselves, nor are they apparently willing to seek help at 
school...which says they probably aren't doing much of their work 
themselves, if I remember back a couple of years when I was 
there...maybe 30 some odd.

I don't remember how long I've been a subscriber to this list, but I 
remember when it was on e-groups and then Dave VanHorn hosted it on his 
server for a while and then brought it back over here to the yahoos.  
There have been trends during that time, and we see this kind of issue 
come up at the end of school semesters.  There have also been some come 
along who are just getting back into this kind of work who've asked for 
help.  And we have.  However, they've also come here with reasonable 
questions after having done some work themselves.

Now, from a more philosophical standpoint, do we really want to have 
people who aren't willing to do their own work in this field of 
endeavor?  I know a lot of us have never had the first bit of classroom 
training with microcontrollers or processors.  I, for one, tried for 
many years to stay away from all this digital stuff...but was forced to 
do so because of customer requirements.  I'll still do things with an 
analog circuit first if I can unload resources from the controller 
because it simplifies the program and allows the system to operate 
faster in many instances.  But that's just me and my own design method.

Do we really want to continue to have people coming into our field of 
endeavor, our profession, who spend more time trying to get others to do 
their work for them, thereby additionally wasting that other person's 
time too, than it would take to sit down and figure it out for 
themselves?  I don't think so.  Or do we want people to be able to slide 
through their studies, wasting their time if they just aren't capable, 
and ultimately going out into the workforce where they'll waste an 
employer's time, money and resources trying to make them into something 
they'll never be?  I don't think so.

It's better to run them off before they get too far and waste not only 
their time, but the time and resources of others.

Just my $0.022 this afternoon...


REB



Philippe Habib wrote:

>I guess that in saying I didn't like the responses without suggesting a fix,
>I was doing it too.  At least no one suggested I was trying to get a
>solution from others as part of a sociology class.
>
>I've been thinking about it and I don't think I have a solution either.  I
>thought that maybe the group should be limited to professionals and
>qualified hobbyists.  Does that mean an on-line quiz you have to pass to
>join?  Does it mean you need to provide the moderator with a resume before
>being allowed to join?  Maybe each new subscriber should just get an auto
>email that explains what they can/can't expect from the group and what
>they're expected to contribute.  If you're not answering questions at least
>in 30% of your posts, you get put on read only status.  Maybe all new users
>should be read only for a month or two.  That would at least weed out those
>who join a week before the final project is due.
>
>That would approach it from the "dumb questions" side.  The thing that set
>me off to write my message was what I saw as an unfriendly tone to the group
>that seemed to treat questions with a "don't bother us, just figure it out"
>message.
>
>The only thing I can think of for that is if you don't want to answer, just
>don't answer instead of accusing the person of being a cheater in a course,
>which you really have no way of knowing if that's the case.  I can say that
>I've worked with my share of people who work for a living and still want it
>all handed to them by others.  I'm sure others have too.
>
>After a few weeks of being on this list, I think I'm losing patience with
>the people that just ask for code too so I can understand being short with
>the umpteenth request to do free work for people.
>
>Sorry for the longwinded answer.  I'm afraid the only concrete thing in it
>is to restrict the list and I don't know if there is any interest in that.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>Of Tom Becker
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 4:57 AM
>To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Interrupt Service Routine for Atmega 16: Homework
>
>
>--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Philippe Habib <phabib@...> wrote:
> 
>  
>
>>I've been writing code professionally for 20+ years but sometimes, I  
>>suspect like all of us, I don't get something or overlook something  
>>stupid and at those times it sure would be nice to know I could ask a  
>>group of professionals for some help without someone deciding my  
>>question is too stupid and that I must be a 20 year old looking for  
>>someone to do his homework for him.
>>    
>>
>
>Some of us have been doing this for awhile, Philippe, and we see
>patterns.  How would you suggest this real first post (just arrived on
>another group) should be answered?  Want a job (no pay, no thanks)?
>
>"bharadwaz_srikanth wrote:
>I need complete ultimate information on Microcontrollers which must be
>self explanatory."
>
>Tom
>
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> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>  
>


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