AVR-Chat

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
AVR-Chat group:

I'm trying to run down the root of the unreliability problem with Studio 4.x
Please let me know what you can about your development environment.

I know some of us seem to lead a charmed life, and like George Burns at age 97, I wouldn't advise that you change ANYTHING.
I am hoping that this will pull up some common thread that can be used to avoid or solve the problem.

In order not to skew things, I am not going to allow the results to be seen till I close this, which will be soon. I hope that you will all weigh in quickly.


If necessary, please email me on the specifics of your setup. 

  o PC- CPU = Intel 
  o PC- CPU = AMD 
  o PC- CPU = Other (transmeta or ...) 
  o OS- Windows XP 
  o OS- Windows Vista 
  o OS- Windows 98 
  o OS- Linux or other unix 
  o Studio IS reliable for me in Simulation and Emulation 
  o Studio is NOT reliable for me in Emulation, but Simulation is ok 
  o Studio is NOT reliable for me in simulation, but Emulation is ok 
  o Studio is unreliable for me in Simulation and Emulation 
  o I use original Jtag ICE from Atmel 
  o I use original Jtag ICE from others. 
  o I use Atmel Jtag Ice MKII 
  o I use other Atmel debugger 
  o I don't use any ICE 


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/surveys?id=12715212 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I gave up on Studio a while ago.  I do my development on a Mac using
Eclipse, avr-gcc and avrdude.  I've not tried the debugging stuff yet - I
tend to debug using printf...

DLC

>
> Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
> AVR-Chat group:
>
> I'm trying to run down the root of the unreliability problem with Studio
> 4.x
> Please let me know what you can about your development environment.
>
> I know some of us seem to lead a charmed life, and like George Burns at
> age 97, I wouldn't advise that you change ANYTHING.
> I am hoping that this will pull up some common thread that can be used to
> avoid or solve the problem.
>
> In order not to skew things, I am not going to allow the results to be
> seen till I close this, which will be soon. I hope that you will all weigh
> in quickly.
>
>
> If necessary, please email me on the specifics of your setup.
>
>   o PC- CPU = Intel
>   o PC- CPU = AMD
>   o PC- CPU = Other (transmeta or ...)
>   o OS- Windows XP
>   o OS- Windows Vista
>   o OS- Windows 98
>   o OS- Linux or other unix
>   o Studio IS reliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
>   o Studio is NOT reliable for me in Emulation, but Simulation is ok
>   o Studio is NOT reliable for me in simulation, but Emulation is ok
>   o Studio is unreliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
>   o I use original Jtag ICE from Atmel
>   o I use original Jtag ICE from others.
>   o I use Atmel Jtag Ice MKII
>   o I use other Atmel debugger
>   o I don't use any ICE
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/surveys?id=12715212
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

On Feb 5, 2008 2:17 PM, Dennis Clark <dlc@frii.com> wrote:
> I gave up on Studio a while ago.  I do my development on a Mac using
> Eclipse, avr-gcc and avrdude.  I've not tried the debugging stuff yet - I
> tend to debug using printf...
>

What's an Eclipse?


Also, I agree on PrintF, but what about when you don't have a uart or
spare pins?
I have a little routine called "Pong" that I like, gives me a byte in
PWM on a pin, but it takes space and time to run.

> On Feb 5, 2008 2:17 PM, Dennis Clark <dlc@frii.com> wrote:
>> I gave up on Studio a while ago.  I do my development on a Mac using
>> Eclipse, avr-gcc and avrdude.  I've not tried the debugging stuff yet -
>> I
>> tend to debug using printf...
>>
>
> What's an Eclipse?

  Eclipse is a Java based open source IDE that can be configured for lots
of environments.  It is so flexible that it is almost impossible to use
at times.  :)  There is a nice AVR plugin for it and avr-gcc that while
it is a little rough around the edges, helped me over the hump of
configuring it for avr-gcc and the AVR micros.

>
> Also, I agree on PrintF, but what about when you don't have a uart or
> spare pins?
> I have a little routine called "Pong" that I like, gives me a byte in
> PWM on a pin, but it takes space and time to run.

  And winking LEDs,  - I have a library of bit-banged async serial output
routines too.  I like your method as well.  I live on the scope when
dealing with code in tiny micros with no UART.  I've never had a working
debugger setup using AVR Studio, and while I have a JTAG MKII, I've
never gotten it to work for me, so <shrug>.  I'm glad I won it as a door
prize at a seminar.

DLC

>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

>  Eclipse is a Java based open source IDE that can be configured for lots
> of environments.  It is so flexible that it is almost impossible to use
> at times.  :)  There is a nice AVR plugin for it and avr-gcc that while
> it is a little rough around the edges, helped me over the hump of
> configuring it for avr-gcc and the AVR micros.

Hmm. I might need to check that out.


>  And winking LEDs,  - I have a library of bit-banged async serial output
> routines too.  I like your method as well.  I live on the scope when
> dealing with code in tiny micros with no UART.  I've never had a working
> debugger setup using AVR Studio, and while I have a JTAG MKII, I've
> never gotten it to work for me, so <shrug>.  I'm glad I won it as a door
> prize at a seminar.

I'd wish that everyone who's had this sort of experience would drop a
note to avr@atmel.com and let them know the particulars.

I hear of a new studio in the works, a "ground up rewrite", which
makes me wonder why they would rewrite something like this if it were
truly working for everyone but me.

David VanHorn wrote:
> I hear of a new studio in the works, a "ground up rewrite", which
> makes me wonder why they would rewrite something like this if it were
> truly working for everyone but me.

I can think of several reasons for a rewrite besides that; such as a
rewrite to a portable platform and could then also run on Linux and
Mac OS X. AVR Studio does crash for me trying to debug and that is the
main reason I bought IAR with its C-Spy debugger.

Kevin

The latest Studio download includes a "beta" of something.

Jim Wagner

On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Kevin Rosenberg wrote:

> David VanHorn wrote:
> > I hear of a new studio in the works, a "ground up rewrite", which
> > makes me wonder why they would rewrite something like this if it  
> were
> > truly working for everyone but me.
>
> I can think of several reasons for a rewrite besides that; such as a
> rewrite to a portable platform and could then also run on Linux and
> Mac OS X. AVR Studio does crash for me trying to debug and that is the
> main reason I bought IAR with its C-Spy debugger.
>
> Kevin
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>  Eclipse is a Java based open source IDE that can be configured for lots
>> of environments.  It is so flexible that it is almost impossible to use
>> at times.  :)  There is a nice AVR plugin for it and avr-gcc that while
>> it is a little rough around the edges, helped me over the hump of
>> configuring it for avr-gcc and the AVR micros.
>
> Hmm. I might need to check that out.
>
>
>>  And winking LEDs,  - I have a library of bit-banged async serial output
>> routines too.  I like your method as well.  I live on the scope when
>> dealing with code in tiny micros with no UART.  I've never had a working
>> debugger setup using AVR Studio, and while I have a JTAG MKII, I've
>> never gotten it to work for me, so <shrug>.  I'm glad I won it as a door
>> prize at a seminar.
>
> I'd wish that everyone who's had this sort of experience would drop a
> note to avr@atmel.com and let them know the particulars.
>
> I hear of a new studio in the works, a "ground up rewrite", which
> makes me wonder why they would rewrite something like this if it were
> truly working for everyone but me.

  I figured it was just me.  I hope they write it so that it will run on
something OTHER than Windows as well as on Windows - I'm tired of having
to re-install the driver for something just because I unplugged it or
moved it to another USB port.  They can re-write it all they want, if I
can't run it on my Mac I'm not likely to be interested.  Once bitten,
twice scorned.

YMMV,
DLC
-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

At 06:27 AM 6/02/2008, you wrote:
>I've never had a working
>debugger setup using AVR Studio, and while I have a JTAG MKII, I've
>never gotten it to work for me, so <shrug>.  I'm glad I won it as a door
>prize at a seminar.

I wish I had won one of them :-) I'll have to buy one shortly
if another Dragon is not forthcoming. (I partially blew mine up).

I have been suffering with Studio and Atmel debuggers for the past
8 years or so. Still would not live without them, warts and all.

Sorry, I just can't understand anyone doing debugs without some way
of being able to look inside the chip, single steps, memory and port
modify, breakpoints etc. I guess I have been spoiled this past
1/4 century having always some form of debugging facility even if a
simple monitor, Motorola like.

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

You don't have the Mac OS X included in your OS list.

DLC

>
> Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
> AVR-Chat group:
>
> I'm trying to run down the root of the unreliability problem with Studio
> 4.x
> Please let me know what you can about your development environment.
>
> I know some of us seem to lead a charmed life, and like George Burns at
> age 97, I wouldn't advise that you change ANYTHING.
> I am hoping that this will pull up some common thread that can be used to
> avoid or solve the problem.
>
> In order not to skew things, I am not going to allow the results to be
> seen till I close this, which will be soon. I hope that you will all weigh
> in quickly.
>
>
> If necessary, please email me on the specifics of your setup.
>
>   o PC- CPU = Intel
>   o PC- CPU = AMD
>   o PC- CPU = Other (transmeta or ...)
>   o OS- Windows XP
>   o OS- Windows Vista
>   o OS- Windows 98
>   o OS- Linux or other unix
>   o Studio IS reliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
>   o Studio is NOT reliable for me in Emulation, but Simulation is ok
>   o Studio is NOT reliable for me in simulation, but Emulation is ok
>   o Studio is unreliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
>   o I use original Jtag ICE from Atmel
>   o I use original Jtag ICE from others.
>   o I use Atmel Jtag Ice MKII
>   o I use other Atmel debugger
>   o I don't use any ICE
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/surveys?id=12715212
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

Make that another "vote" for MacOS though, at the moment it is WinXP  
running under Fusion. I need to talk to Dennis to find out how to do  
it "right".

Jim Wagner
On Feb 5, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Dennis Clark wrote:

> You don't have the Mac OS X included in your OS list.
>
> DLC
>
> >
> > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> > AVR-Chat group:
> >
> > I'm trying to run down the root of the unreliability problem with  
> Studio
> > 4.x
> > Please let me know what you can about your development environment.
> >
> > I know some of us seem to lead a charmed life, and like George  
> Burns at
> > age 97, I wouldn't advise that you change ANYTHING.
> > I am hoping that this will pull up some common thread that can be  
> used to
> > avoid or solve the problem.
> >
> > In order not to skew things, I am not going to allow the results  
> to be
> > seen till I close this, which will be soon. I hope that you will  
> all weigh
> > in quickly.
> >
> >
> > If necessary, please email me on the specifics of your setup.
> >
> > o PC- CPU = Intel
> > o PC- CPU = AMD
> > o PC- CPU = Other (transmeta or ...)
> > o OS- Windows XP
> > o OS- Windows Vista
> > o OS- Windows 98
> > o OS- Linux or other unix
> > o Studio IS reliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
> > o Studio is NOT reliable for me in Emulation, but Simulation is ok
> > o Studio is NOT reliable for me in simulation, but Emulation is ok
> > o Studio is unreliable for me in Simulation and Emulation
> > o I use original Jtag ICE from Atmel
> > o I use original Jtag ICE from others.
> > o I use Atmel Jtag Ice MKII
> > o I use other Atmel debugger
> > o I don't use any ICE
> >
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/surveys?id=12715212
> >
> > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> > web site listed above.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Dennis Clark
> TTT Enterprises
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> At 06:27 AM 6/02/2008, you wrote:
>>I've never had a working
>>debugger setup using AVR Studio, and while I have a JTAG MKII, I've
>>never gotten it to work for me, so <shrug>.  I'm glad I won it as a door
>>prize at a seminar.
>
> I wish I had won one of them :-) I'll have to buy one shortly
> if another Dragon is not forthcoming. (I partially blew mine up).
>
> I have been suffering with Studio and Atmel debuggers for the past
> 8 years or so. Still would not live without them, warts and all.
>
> Sorry, I just can't understand anyone doing debugs without some way
> of being able to look inside the chip, single steps, memory and port
> modify, breakpoints etc. I guess I have been spoiled this past
> 1/4 century having always some form of debugging facility even if a
> simple monitor, Motorola like.

  I've been whipped by such things and have found them to be generally
impenetrable and impossible to use and unreliable at best.  I've given
up.  my Microchip debugger on an ICD2 works most of the time and is
quite useful, but that is the best I've seen, and it isn't all that
great.

DLC

> Regards
>
> John Samperi
>
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

At 08:58 AM 6/02/2008, you wrote:
> > You don't have the Mac OS X included in your OS list.

Also the Dragon is not included and debugWire, only JTAG.

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

On Feb 5, 2008 5:20 PM, John Samperi <samperi@ampertronics.com.au> wrote:
> At 08:58 AM 6/02/2008, you wrote:
> > > You don't have the Mac OS X included in your OS list.

:)

> Also the Dragon is not included and debugWire, only JTAG.

I was including the dragon with "old Jtag" and debugwire is only
available on the MkII, right?