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2008-06-28 by Frank
Hello, I'm a n00b with an at90usb162. What is the easiest/cheapest hardware I can use for emulation debugging? Currently, I use FLIP to program the Atmel chip via the USB port. I saw some projects like avarice, avrdude, ice-gdb and company. Does any of them work with anything I could solder together quickly? Would a dragon be my only hardware choice? Frank
2008-06-28 by John Samperi
At 02:34 AM 29/06/2008, you wrote: >Would a dragon be my only hardware choice? No, you also have the JTAG Mk2. Nothing else for In Circuit Debugging that I know of for that chip. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: john@ampertronics.com.au Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************
2008-06-29 by Frank
Thanks for your response. Is it right to say that to program and to debug on the same group of pins, the only choice is the JTAG port? Are the folllowing generilzations true? All AVRs have ICSP Some AVRs have HWD Some AVRs have JTAG Not all AVRs have built in harware bootloaders --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote:
> > At 02:34 AM 29/06/2008, you wrote: > >Would a dragon be my only hardware choice? > > No, you also have the JTAG Mk2. Nothing else for > In Circuit Debugging that I know of for that chip. > > Regards > > John Samperi > > ******************************************************** > Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. > 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA > Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 > Email: john@... > Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au > *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly > ******************************************************** >
2008-06-30 by Frank
John, I was shown this JTAG emulator clone http://www.scienceprog.com/build-your-own-avr-jtagice-clone/ Frank --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote:
> > At 02:34 AM 29/06/2008, you wrote: > >Would a dragon be my only hardware choice? > > No, you also have the JTAG Mk2. Nothing else for > In Circuit Debugging that I know of for that chip. > > Regards > > John Samperi > > ******************************************************** > Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. > 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA > Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 > Email: john@... > Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au > *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly > ******************************************************** >
2008-06-30 by John Samperi
At 02:47 PM 30/06/2008, you wrote: >I was shown this JTAG emulator clone >http://www.scienceprog.com/build-your-own-avr-jtagice-clone/ But have you looked at the supported device list? An NO there will NOT be any more added as it is obsolete now. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: john@ampertronics.com.au Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************
2008-06-30 by John Samperi
At 02:59 AM 30/06/2008, you wrote: >Are the folllowing generilzations true? >All AVRs have ICSP True >Some AVRs have HWD Most of the new ones have, either DW or JTAG >Some AVRs have JTAG Chips with 40 pins or more and at least 16K flash >Not all AVRs have built in harware bootloaders NONE of them have it. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: john@ampertronics.com.au Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************
2008-07-02 by Frank
John, Thanks for the heads up on the limited support list for that build your own jtag clone. It's looking that I should just go DRAGON for being the most complete solution. For the hardware bootloader, I'm a bit confused. Now, FLIP works on the principle that there is a HWB pin on AT90USBxxx chips. Doesn't that mean that there's a bootloader? Maybe my concept is wrong and all...
> >Not all AVRs have built in harware bootloaders > > NONE of them have it. > > Regards > > John Samperi
2008-07-02 by Graham Davies
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <transistortoaster@...> wrote: > For the hardware bootloader, > I'm a bit confused. Maybe you could clarify what you mean by a "hardware bootloader". Many AVRs have the ability to sort-of cordon off part of the Flash for a program that can accept a new application firmware image from somewhere (such as the serial port) and program it into the main Flash. Atmel refers to this as a bootloader, although traditionally a bootloader does something quite different. But, this "bootloader" is still firmware that you program into the chip and that disappears when you erase the chip. A hardware bootloader, in my experience, is held in the chip in ROM (and so can't be erased) and loads the application (perhaps from a serial port) into RAM and executes it from there. The AVRs don't have this. They have no ROM and can't execute from RAM. Graham.
2008-07-02 by Graham Davies
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Zack Widup <w9sz@...> wrote: > ... PDP-11/20, ... bootloader was ... > toggle switches on the front ... Well, since you bring it up, that's pretty much what I meant by the "traditional" use of the term "bootloader", formerly "bootstrap loader". On power-up, the device has no program at all to execute or only the very simplest program that just looks for data to show up, moves that data into memory and at some point begins to execute the data as instructions. On a mini-computer (I used Prime rather than DEC), the switch-entered loader was often only able to read paper tape and you then ran in a secondary loader from tape that was able to read the operating system from disk and then you were finally up. By contrast, microcomputers have their applications programs ready to go when power is applied, so there is no bootstrap process at all. The thing we've unfortunately got into the habit of calling a bootloader is only activated on request and then replaces the application image with a new one. It's a "loader", but has no role in "boot"ing. I think it's a Flash loader or an application loader. Graham.
2008-07-02 by Zack Widup
Back when I used a PDP-11/20, the hardware bootloader was a series of toggle switches on the front of the unit. I'm glad those days are gone! :-) Zack
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Graham Davies wrote: > --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <transistortoaster@...> wrote: > >> For the hardware bootloader, >> I'm a bit confused. > > Maybe you could clarify what you mean by a "hardware bootloader". Many > AVRs have the ability to sort-of cordon off part of the Flash for a > program that can accept a new application firmware image from somewhere > (such as the serial port) and program it into the main Flash. Atmel > refers to this as a bootloader, although traditionally a bootloader > does something quite different. But, this "bootloader" is still > firmware that you program into the chip and that disappears when you > erase the chip. A hardware bootloader, in my experience, is held in > the chip in ROM (and so can't be erased) and loads the application > (perhaps from a serial port) into RAM and executes it from there. The > AVRs don't have this. They have no ROM and can't execute from RAM. > > Graham. > > >
2008-07-02 by John Samperi
At 12:52 AM 3/07/2008, you wrote: > Now, FLIP works on >the principle that there is a HWB pin on AT90USBxxx chips. Doesn't >that mean that there's a bootloader? That will teach me to talk about chips I don't use. :-[ As a self inflicted punishment I had look up the data sheet: Optional Boot Code Section with Independent Lock Bits USB boot-loader programmed by default in the factory ********** In-System Programming by on-chip Boot Program hardware-activated after reset So looks like the USB type chips have a pre programmed BL. Didn't know that it only has DW for debugging so the Dragon or a JTAG Mk2 are the only tools available. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: john@ampertronics.com.au Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************