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WTF have I got myself into ?

WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-24 by Kathy Quinlan

Hi All,

OK a customer has asked me to solder up some PCB's, no problem, apart 
from the main part a DSP in a 40 lead QFN with centre ground pad this 
sucker is 6mm Sq with 0.5mm pad centres, has anyone ever soldered one of 
these ? I am planning on using solder paste and hot air, the PCB's were 
designed by me for mass production ie reflow soldering not HAND 
soldering, I am wondering if an electric skillet would get hot enough 
and reflow it ? I could quite easily go buy one and hack the sides off 
to make a flat plate, if it could also go down to 90C I could use it as 
a heat pad for warming PCB's ready for hot air re work (a re work 
station I was looking at had pads to heat the PCB up so the hot air or 
IR worked quicker)

Regards,

Kat.

Re: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-24 by Jeffrey Engel

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this, so I don't know how well it works.

Sparkfun has done a couple of DIY reflow projects.  Here's one:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=81

Best of Luck,

Jeff
--- On Sat, 1/24/09, Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet.net.au>
Subject: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 2:02 AM










    
            Hi All,



OK a customer has asked me to solder up some PCB's, no problem, apart 

from the main part a DSP in a 40 lead QFN with centre ground pad this 

sucker is 6mm Sq with 0.5mm pad centres, has anyone ever soldered one of 

these ? I am planning on using solder paste and hot air, the PCB's were 

designed by me for mass production ie reflow soldering not HAND 

soldering, I am wondering if an electric skillet would get hot enough 

and reflow it ? I could quite easily go buy one and hack the sides off 

to make a flat plate, if it could also go down to 90C I could use it as 

a heat pad for warming PCB's ready for hot air re work (a re work 

station I was looking at had pads to heat the PCB up so the hot air or 

IR worked quicker)



Regards,



Kat.


      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-24 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@...> wrote:

> ... solder ... a 40 lead QFN with
> centre ground pad ... 6mm Sq with
> 0.5mm pad centres ...

It's not a good idea to heat the PCB from underneath.  Even heat from
above takes the material of the PCB above its glass transition
temperature.  I have had lots of success with a carefully chosen and
slightly modified toaster oven.  I have soldered parts down to 0.5 mm
centres, although not with the pad underneath, but I can't see that
presenting a problem.  I've soldered high-power LEDs where the pad is
completely hidden underneath the body of the part.

I found a toaster oven with a large cavity and four heaters, two above
the food grid and two below, for $30 US in a chain drug store.  There
is no thermostat.  I rewired the bake / toast / broil switch so that
on bake the heaters above and below are in series and on broil the
upper heaters only are on.  I preheat the oven for five minutes on
bake.  Then I put in the PCB(s) and give it another five minutes on
bake.  Then I turn it to broil and watch very carefully through the
glass front.  I have some temperature tell-tale material and I put a
chip of it on the PCB and watch for the colour change.  But, you can
also look for the joints to melt and turn silvery.  After all have
melted, count to ten to make sure, turn the heaters off and open the
door.  If the PCB is not so small as to be in danger of dropping
through the grid, during the last few seconds I tap the sides of the
oven with my fingertips.  This jostles the smaller parts into place,
particularly 0603s, SOT23s and those devilish TinyLogic SC70s.

I think the two heaters on the top are important for all but the
smallest PCBs.  I have recently done a small run of 3.6 inch (90 mm)
square PCBs and, not to boast, they look as if they came off a re-flow
assembly line.  I plan, actually, to move the bottom heaters to the
top too and add a controller, but what I have works well enough that I
don't seem to get around to this.

Kathy, if you can find a toaster oven with two heaters at the top I
think you should try some variation of my method.

Graham.

P.S. I know I'm too far from Kathy to help her out directly, but for
anyone in the US I am not fully loaded right now and have general
embedded systems capacity available.

Re: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-24 by Bill Knight

Kat
   I've done surface mount with a convection toaster oven several times 
in the past.  There are a number of articles out there describing the 
process.  I also know of a couple of folks who routinely use the process 
you are considering.  One thing I would caution you about is not using 
too much solder paste under the IC.  It could lift it to the point where 
the leads would fail to make contact with their pads.

Regards
-Bill Knight

PS - a special temperature controller is not necessary to use the 
convection toaster oven.



Kathy Quinlan wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi All,
> 
> OK a customer has asked me to solder up some PCB's, no problem, apart
> from the main part a DSP in a 40 lead QFN with centre ground pad this
> sucker is 6mm Sq with 0.5mm pad centres, has anyone ever soldered one of
> these ? I am planning on using solder paste and hot air, the PCB's were
> designed by me for mass production ie reflow soldering not HAND
> soldering, I am wondering if an electric skillet would get hot enough
> and reflow it ? I could quite easily go buy one and hack the sides off
> to make a flat plate, if it could also go down to 90C I could use it as
> a heat pad for warming PCB's ready for hot air re work (a re work
> station I was looking at had pads to heat the PCB up so the hot air or
> IR worked quicker)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kat.

Re: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by rutabagalips

Google for Toaster Oven Reflow...I have seen a number of articles on this, including one on Circuit Cellar Ink.

--- On Sat, 1/24/09, Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet.net.au>
Subject: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 3:02 AM






Hi All,

OK a customer has asked me to solder up some PCB's, no problem, apart 
from the main part a DSP in a 40 lead QFN with centre ground pad this 
sucker is 6mm Sq with 0.5mm pad centres, has anyone ever soldered one of 
these ? I am planning on using solder paste and hot air, the PCB's were 
designed by me for mass production ie reflow soldering not HAND 
soldering, I am wondering if an electric skillet would get hot enough 
and reflow it ? I could quite easily go buy one and hack the sides off 
to make a flat plate, if it could also go down to 90C I could use it as 
a heat pad for warming PCB's ready for hot air re work (a re work 
station I was looking at had pads to heat the PCB up so the hot air or 
IR worked quicker)

Regards,

Kat.
 













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by avr@m-s-m.biz

Try to have a read of Silicon Chip Issue 234, March 2008.
 
I have used the article by Jim Rowe, titled "How to Solder Surface Mount
Devices", as a basis for the reflow Soldering of protoypes.
 
It took a few tries to work out the correct amount of paste to use, as well
as the correct maximum temperature. (can provide further details)
 
For those of you from Oz:
I got the oven from Myers and found a good place in Penrith (NSW) that has a
range of solder pastes which makes applying the paste easier than using the
product mentioned in the article.
 
Cheers
        Tim


 



--- On Sat, 1/24/09, Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet.
<mailto:kaqdialup%40iinet.net.au> net.au> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@iinet. <mailto:kaqdialup%40iinet.net.au>
net.au>
Subject: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroup <mailto:AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 3:02 AM

Hi All,

OK a customer has asked me to solder up some PCB's, no problem, apart 
from the main part a DSP in a 40 lead QFN with centre ground pad this 
sucker is 6mm Sq with 0.5mm pad centres, has anyone ever soldered one of 
these ? I am planning on using solder paste and hot air, the PCB's were 
designed by me for mass production ie reflow soldering not HAND 
soldering, I am wondering if an electric skillet would get hot enough 
and reflow it ? I could quite easily go buy one and hack the sides off 
to make a flat plate, if it could also go down to 90C I could use it as 
a heat pad for warming PCB's ready for hot air re work (a re work 
station I was looking at had pads to heat the PCB up so the hot air or 
IR worked quicker)

Regards,

Kat.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by Dave Hylands

On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:06 PM, rutabagalips <renaissancetech@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Google for Toaster Oven Reflow...I have seen a number of articles on this, including one on Circuit Cellar Ink.

My brother Jon built a reflow oven using a design based on the one
from the Circuit Cellar Ink, but using an ATMega168.

http://www.huv.com/blog/2007_03_01_archive.html

-- 
Dave Hylands
Shuswap, BC, Canada
http://www.DaveHylands.com/

RE: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by John Samperi

At 05:13 PM 25/01/2009, you wrote:
>found a good place in Penrith (NSW) that has a
>range of solder pastes which makes applying the paste easier

Company mane please. :-)



Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

RE: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by avr@m-s-m.biz

OKAY Technologies
Pullman Place
Emu Plains
 
okay.com.au
Visited warehouse for 1st purchase & they were helpful although I spent less
than $25 with them that time.
They gave me plenty of catalogues & seem to be able to supply all your
soldering needs
 
Cheers
        Tim
 
P.S. I found that getting the correct Syringe Tip helped when reflow
soldering.
I ended up using the blue TT series tip (22 gauge), but the range consists
of over 20 different tips.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of John Samperi
Sent: Monday, 26 January 2009 09:40
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?



At 05:13 PM 25/01/2009, you wrote:
>found a good place in Penrith (NSW) that has a
>range of solder pastes which makes applying the paste easier

Company mane please. :-)

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website http://www.ampertro <http://www.ampertronics.com.au> nics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-01-25 by John Samperi

At 10:12 AM 26/01/2009, you wrote:
>OKAY Technologies
>Pullman Place
>Emu Plains

Thanks Tim.

Normal "WTF have I got myself into" can now resume. :-)


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-02-04 by Kathy Quinlan

Dave Hylands wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:06 PM, rutabagalips 
> <renaissancetech@yahoo.com <mailto:renaissancetech%40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > Google for Toaster Oven Reflow...I have seen a number of articles on 
> this, including one on Circuit Cellar Ink.
>
> My brother Jon built a reflow oven using a design based on the one
> from the Circuit Cellar Ink, but using an ATMega168.
>
> http://www.huv.com/blog/2007_03_01_archive.html 
> <http://www.huv.com/blog/2007_03_01_archive.html>
>
> -- 
> Dave Hylands
> Shuswap, BC, Canada
> http://www.DaveHylands.com/ <http://www.DaveHylands.com/>
>
On the circuit Cellar site I noticed the oven has IR heaters, now are 
these the quartz tube heaters that glow orange and put a fair amount of 
heater out ?

I have a 1200W 3 bar room heater that I am about to through out and I 
could pull the heaters and put them in a microwave cavity so I can 
routate the PCBS to avoid hot areas ;) also has nice control push button 
panel to interface to an AVR ;)

I am thinking I might have to find a convection microwave that is dead, 
and have a play :)

Regards,

Kat.

(can you tell my workshop is just about up and running ? I am in idea 
mode :)

Re: WTF have I got myself into ?

2009-02-04 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Quinlan <kaqdialup@...> wrote:

> ... I noticed the oven has IR heaters ...

In my toaster oven, the heaters are, indeed, quartz tubes with 
resistive wire embedded in them.  They glow bright enough to see by 
(there is no other source of light in the oven).

> I have a 1200W 3 bar room heater ...

Heater elements intended for room heating might overheat in an enclosed 
space, so allow for that in your design.

> ... put them in a microwave ...

You'll have to make sure that the interior can take the heat, 
especially the turntable mechanism.  Rotating the work is an 
interesting idea.  Make sure you'll be able to see when the solder is 
melted when the PCB is rotating.

Graham.

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