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Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-07 by syberraith

I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, perform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.

The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.  

The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines.  These would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.  

The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require significant memory.

I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.  

I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most of the ones I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.

So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?

Regards,

Fred

Re: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "syberraith" <syberraith@yahoo.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project


>I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, 
>perform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
>
> The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.
>
> The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC 
> routines.  These would take a significant number instruction cycles to 
> perform.
>
> The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would 
> require significant memory.
>
> I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per 
> second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest 
> required.
>
> I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most 
> of the ones I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive 
> elaborate.
>
> So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?

dsPIC?

Leon

Re: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by David Kelly

On Nov 7, 2009, at 11:46 AM, syberraith wrote:

> I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the  
> signal, perform a non-linear function, then generate a control  
> current.
>
> The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate  
> devices.
>
> The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC  
> routines.  These would take a significant number instruction cycles  
> to perform.
>
> The function could also be performed with a look up table, which  
> would require significant memory.

How many positions can one put one's foot on the pedal? Surely no more  
than 256. Then you need only 256 pre-calculated entries in your lookup  
table. Even at 32 bits each this is only 1k bytes.

> I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples  
> per second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute  
> lowest required.

Musicians can change the position of their foot faster than 46 kHz? I  
don't know for sure but is a safe bet there is a low pass filter on  
the current input to the effect box.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by Jim Hatley

Hello Fred,

You might consider a atxmega32a4 ... it's available now ... has fast ADC and fast DAC ... will run 32Mhz on internal oscillator ... low power ... larger flash memory sizes will be available ... lots of other features and larger xmega processors available.

Jim
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: syberraith 
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:46 AM
  Subject: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project


    
  I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, perform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.

  The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices. 

  The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines. These would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform. 

  The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require significant memory.

  I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required. 

  I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up. Most of the ones I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.

  So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?

  Regards,

  Fred 



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by Donald H

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "syberraith" <syberraith@...> wrote:
>
> I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, perform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
> 
> The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.  
> 
> The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines.  These would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.  
> 
> The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require significant memory.
> 
> I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.  
> 
> I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most of the ones I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.
> 
> So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fred
>


Fred,

Look at what others have done, this will give you insight as to the problems others have fought.

http://www.circuitcellar.com/microchip2007/winners/DE/MT1518.html

What do you mean by "excessive elaborate" ?

You will need MIPs do preform any kind of algorithm.

Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??

don

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by Donald H

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Donald H" <donhamilton2002@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "syberraith" <syberraith@> wrote:
> >
> > I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, perform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
> > 
> > The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.  
> > 
> > The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines.  These would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.  
> > 
> > The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require significant memory.
> > 
> > I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second would be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.  
> > 
> > I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most of the ones I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.
> > 
> > So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Fred
> >
> 
> 
> Fred,
> 
> Look at what others have done, this will give you insight as to the problems others have fought.
> 
> http://www.circuitcellar.com/microchip2007/winners/DE/MT1518.html
> 
> What do you mean by "excessive elaborate" ?
> 
> You will need MIPs do preform any kind of algorithm.
> 
> Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??
> 
> don
>

It looks like the ATxmega series will do 32MIPs.

I will be looking over the app notes to see what algorithms are possible.

don

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-08 by ecros_technology

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Donald H" <donhamilton2002@...> wrote:

> Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??

This depends very much on what you mean by a MIP.
http://www.ecrostech.com/Resources/Dhrystone.htm

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by BobGardner@aol.com

Guitar amps aint real hifi. The speakers dont get much above 3.5KHz, so I think a 20MHz AVR might do a respectable job of a 10bit 9KHz transfer table lookup function and echo chorus type effects. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: syberraith <syberraith@yahoo.com>
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 12:46 pm
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project



I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, 
erform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.  
The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines.  
hese would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.  
The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require 
ignificant memory.
I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second 
ould be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.  
I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most of the 
nes I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.
So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?
Regards,
Fred 


------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
   Individual Email | Traditional
   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by syberraith

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, BobGardner@... wrote:
>
> Guitar amps aint real hifi. The speakers dont get much above 3.5KHz, so I think a 20MHz AVR might do a respectable job of a 10bit 9KHz transfer table lookup function and echo chorus type effects. 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syberraith <syberraith@...>
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 12:46 pm
> Subject: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project
> 
> 
> 
> I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal, 
> erform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
> The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.  
> The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC routines.  
> hese would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.  
> The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would require 
> ignificant memory.
> I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per second 
> ould be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.  
> I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up.  Most of the 
> nes I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.
> So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my project?
> Regards,
> Fred 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>    Individual Email | Traditional
>    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


I see I need to clarify some things.

This is a compression only effect,  It has two states, on an off.  The lookup table would be for a transcendental function, which could also be done with a iterative process that would take up less memory but more instruction cycles.

Yes, dsPICs look promising.  I've been looking at PIC30s and PIC33s, which run at up around 30MHz.  The trouble with them is that they come with a lot of communication peripherals that I lack any need for such as Ethernet or USB etc.  The basic MCU for those is a PIC24 that I think only runs at 16MHz.

I could just as well use a 32 bit device.  Lots of AVR models there with the the same selection problem. 

Being new to MCU and out of practice with coding.  I do need to look at what's been done before in similar projects.

Thanks,

Fred

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "syberraith" <syberraith@yahoo.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project


>
> I see I need to clarify some things.
>
> This is a compression only effect,  It has two states, on an off.  The 
> lookup table would be for a transcendental function, which could also be 
> done with a iterative process that would take up less memory but more 
> instruction cycles.
>
> Yes, dsPICs look promising.  I've been looking at PIC30s and PIC33s, which 
> run at up around 30MHz.  The trouble with them is that they come with a 
> lot of communication peripherals that I lack any need for such as Ethernet 
> or USB etc.  The basic MCU for those is a PIC24 that I think only runs at 
> 16MHz.
>
> I could just as well use a 32 bit device.  Lots of AVR models there with 
> the the same selection problem.
>
> Being new to MCU and out of practice with coding.  I do need to look at 
> what's been done before in similar projects.

You can get dsPICs with minimal peripherals - see the Microchip MAPS 
selector. The newer ones deliver 40 MIPS, and are very cheap. I'd choose a 
dsPIC over a PIC24 because of the DSP functionality.

Leon

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Roland Jollivet" <Roland.Jollivet@gmail.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project


> If you don't need a DsPic, look at these low end devices;
> 18F23K20 series  28pin, 64MHz , about $1.60        or
> 18F14K50 series, 20pin 48MHz  similar price
> 
> I'm not saying they're suited to the app, but they're budget micros' with
> oomph

64 MHz = 16 MIPS
48 MHz = 12 MIPS.

Leon

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by Roland Jollivet

If you don't need a DsPic, look at these low end devices;
18F23K20 series  28pin, 64MHz , about $1.60        or
18F14K50 series, 20pin 48MHz  similar price

I'm not saying they're suited to the app, but they're budget micros' with
oomph

Roland


2009/11/9 syberraith <syberraith@yahoo.com>

>
>
>
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com <AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com>, BobGardner@...
> wrote:
> >
> > Guitar amps aint real hifi. The speakers dont get much above 3.5KHz, so I
> think a 20MHz AVR might do a respectable job of a 10bit 9KHz transfer table
> lookup function and echo chorus type effects.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: syberraith <syberraith@...>
> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com <AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 12:46 pm
> > Subject: [AVR-Chat] Looking for the Right AVR for my Project
> >
> >
> >
> > I am designing a guitar pedal effect and need a MCU to sample the signal,
>
> > erform a non-linear function, then generate a control current.
> > The project requires one ADC and one DAC these can be separate devices.
> > The non-linear function can be performed without a FPU using CORDIC
> routines.
> > hese would take a significant number instruction cycles to perform.
> > The function could also be performed with a look up table, which would
> require
> > ignificant memory.
> > I would like to have a sample rate as high as possible, 200K samples per
> second
> > ould be the highest desired, with 46K being the absolute lowest required.
>
> > I have been looking at 16 bit devices in the 30 MIPS range and up. Most
> of the
> > nes I have seen with sufficient speed have been excessive elaborate.
> > So, does anybody know on a simple device with enough speed for my
> project?
> > Regards,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > Individual Email | Traditional
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> I see I need to clarify some things.
>
> This is a compression only effect, It has two states, on an off. The lookup
> table would be for a transcendental function, which could also be done with
> a iterative process that would take up less memory but more instruction
> cycles.
>
> Yes, dsPICs look promising. I've been looking at PIC30s and PIC33s, which
> run at up around 30MHz. The trouble with them is that they come with a lot
> of communication peripherals that I lack any need for such as Ethernet or
> USB etc. The basic MCU for those is a PIC24 that I think only runs at 16MHz.
>
> I could just as well use a 32 bit device. Lots of AVR models there with the
> the same selection problem.
>
> Being new to MCU and out of practice with coding. I do need to look at
> what's been done before in similar projects.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Fred
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by syberraith

> Fred,
> 
> Look at what others have done, this will give you insight as to the problems others have fought.
> 
> http://www.circuitcellar.com/microchip2007/winners/DE/MT1518.html

Excellent reference, thank you.

> What do you mean by "excessive elaborate" ?

Support for Ethernet, PWM controllers, wireless communication features, CAN support... 

> You will need MIPs do preform any kind of algorithm.
> 
> Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??

it seems so:  http://www.atmel.com/products/avr32/default.asp  
 
> don

I was also looking at the DIOPSIS devices.  The data sheets for MCU are hundreds of pages long, and the data sheets for the DSP engines are even longer.

All I need is a fast enough device, with or without FP multiply, and some high quality audio converters.  That example you mentioned uses separate converters.  That seems like a good idea, considering the quality I want out of this thing.  The USB connectivity I lack a need for at the moment, although in the future it would be an option.

Fred

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "syberraith" <syberraith@yahoo.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:58 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project


>
>
>
>> Fred,
>>
>> Look at what others have done, this will give you insight as to the 
>> problems others have fought.
>>
>> http://www.circuitcellar.com/microchip2007/winners/DE/MT1518.html
>
> Excellent reference, thank you.
>
>> What do you mean by "excessive elaborate" ?
>
> Support for Ethernet, PWM controllers, wireless communication features, 
> CAN support...
>
>> You will need MIPs do preform any kind of algorithm.
>>
>> Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??
>
> it seems so:  http://www.atmel.com/products/avr32/default.asp
>
>> don
>
> I was also looking at the DIOPSIS devices.  The data sheets for MCU are 
> hundreds of pages long, and the data sheets for the DSP engines are even 
> longer.

I don't think that Atmel has put it into production.

Leon

Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project

2009-11-09 by syberraith

You can get AT32UC3A0128-ALUT at Mouser for under $10

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "leon Heller" <leon355@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "syberraith" <syberraith@...>
> To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:58 PM
> Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Looking for the Right AVR for my Project
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >> Fred,
> >>
> >> Look at what others have done, this will give you insight as to the 
> >> problems others have fought.
> >>
> >> http://www.circuitcellar.com/microchip2007/winners/DE/MT1518.html
> >
> > Excellent reference, thank you.
> >
> >> What do you mean by "excessive elaborate" ?
> >
> > Support for Ethernet, PWM controllers, wireless communication features, 
> > CAN support...
> >
> >> You will need MIPs do preform any kind of algorithm.
> >>
> >> Will any AVR do 30MIPS ??
> >
> > it seems so:  http://www.atmel.com/products/avr32/default.asp
> >
> >> don
> >
> > I was also looking at the DIOPSIS devices.  The data sheets for MCU are 
> > hundreds of pages long, and the data sheets for the DSP engines are even 
> > longer.
> 
> I don't think that Atmel has put it into production.
> 
> Leon
>

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