AVR-Chat

I am a long-time AVR user who has moved mostly to the NXP ARM chips, using Crossworks (LPC2xxx and LPC1xxx). I second Leon's opinion of Crossworks, it is a very efficient programming environment with excellent support. Going from AVR Studio (or worse, PIC MPLAB) to Crossworks is like climbing into a lovely warm bath... ahhhh.....

For me the advantages of the NXP ARM are:
All memory in one map - no messing around splitting up FLASH and RAM accesses.
They are really cheap - cheaper than AVR 8 bit in a lot of cases
Availability is good in this time of Atmel unavailability
Generally more RAM, FLASH and peripherals than AVR. They nearly all have USB and onboard Ethernet is quite common too (just add PHY chip). Lots of IO too.
Most peripherals can be routed to different IO pins which allows easier PCB layout.
If you stick with NXP, the peripherals are all the same across all the ARM7 and Cortex-M3 parts so changing chips is quite easy
Lots and lots of sample projects out there
32-bit is often useful - no more declaring everything as char unless you really really need 16 bit (maybe it's only me does that)
Debugging with Crossworks is very easy with all sorts of real time memory watches and things.

The disadvantages are:
They are 3.3V only which makes using with some devices harder (eg LCD modules)
They are not always faster than AVR, it depends what you are doing
The standard JTAG connector (which you need to program the device) is enormous


-- 
Tim Mitchell

On 29/11/2010 09:56, Tim Mitchell wrote:

>
> The disadvantages are:
> They are 3.3V only which makes using with some devices harder (eg LCD modules)
> They are not always faster than AVR, it depends what you are doing

I/O can be slow. You can't toggle a pin very fast, for instance.

> The standard JTAG connector (which you need to program the device) is enormous

You don't actually need all those connections, and the Cortex connector 
is much smaller:

http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.faqs/attached/13634/cortex_debug_connectors.pdf

Leon
--
Leon Heller
G1HSM

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Mitchell
> 
> I am a long-time AVR user who has moved mostly to the NXP ARM chips, using
> Crossworks (LPC2xxx and LPC1xxx). I second Leon's opinion of Crossworks, it is
> a very efficient programming environment with excellent support. Going from
> AVR Studio (or worse, PIC MPLAB) to Crossworks is like climbing into a lovely
> warm bath... ahhhh.....
> ....

I looked at Crossworks but, since I have one product I'll be selling (small hobby
market) it kicks me from Hobby (reasonable price) to Commercial ($1,500) which I
can't justify.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philippe Habib
> 
> It seems to me that if you've got all the power you need, you're
> nowhere close to running out of flash and you own and know all of the
> tools you need to work, you don't have the kind of volume that would
> pay back the investment in a lower cost or otherwise better solution,
> why change processors and start all over?

As I mentioned, I am not necessarily looking to change but I had heard ARM mentioned
a lot so I figured I should at least take a look at it to see if it was a better fit
for me.  So far, I haven't seen anything that would make me want to switch from AVR
at this time.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: evgenii sorokin
> 
> Holy wars were always useless :). Like this one.

This is nothing, I have unsubscribed from lists because they have gone off into
great length on the Windows .vs. (flavor)NIX wars.  Some people just can't live with
"different strokes for different folks" --- Now, I don't want this to start ANY
discussion of this here!

------------------

Well, I've heard advantages and disadvantages for both AVR and ARM.  I think AVR
will do nicely for my current needs ... but I'll be keeping my ears open :-)

Thanks to all for the discussion ...

Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844 http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

> I looked at Crossworks but, since I have one product I'll be selling (small hobby
> market) it kicks me from Hobby (reasonable price) to Commercial ($1,500) which I
> can't justify.


You can use arm-gcc for ARM, it's free :). There is a clone for ms windows (winarm)

On 30/11/2010 22:46, Chuck Hackett wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tim Mitchell
>>
>> I am a long-time AVR user who has moved mostly to the NXP ARM chips, using
>> Crossworks (LPC2xxx and LPC1xxx). I second Leon's opinion of Crossworks, it is
>> a very efficient programming environment with excellent support. Going from
>> AVR Studio (or worse, PIC MPLAB) to Crossworks is like climbing into a lovely
>> warm bath... ahhhh.....
>> ....
>
> I looked at Crossworks but, since I have one product I'll be selling (small hobby
> market) it kicks me from Hobby (reasonable price) to Commercial ($1,500) which I
> can't justify.

Contact them directly, and they might let you have it at the Hobby 
price. They have even been known to give out complementary copies to 
deserving individuals.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

> From: Leon Heller
> 
> > ....
> > I looked at Crossworks but, since I have one product I'll be selling (small
> hobby
> > market) it kicks me from Hobby (reasonable price) to Commercial ($1,500)
> which I
> > can't justify.
> 
> Contact them directly, and they might let you have it at the Hobby
> price. They have even been known to give out complementary copies to
> deserving individuals.

Thanks Leon,

I'll contact them and explain that my use is hobby except for my "products" for
ride-on hobby railroads (signal system).  I'm a retired software developer and I'm
not looking for this activity to supplement my retirement income - but I'm not into
losing money either :-)
 
Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844 http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

> From: Eugene
> 
> > I looked at Crossworks but, since I have one product I'll be selling (small
> hobby
> > market) it kicks me from Hobby (reasonable price) to Commercial ($1,500)
> which I
> > can't justify.
> 
> You can use arm-gcc for ARM, it's free :). There is a clone for ms windows
> (winarm)

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I was speaking in terms of the possible switch from
AVRStudio/WinAVR (free) to Crossworks ($1,500) and staying with the AVR line of
processors.

... but I have yet to contact Crossworks to see if they will let me use the "hobby"
offer in my situation.
 
Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844 http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

Hello Chuck
  Could you report the results of your dialog with Crossworks? If you don't mind of course.

Best regards,
Eugene