AVR-Chat

Hi,

We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The main 
reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB and we 
like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of 
Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want to 
quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the 
device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code examples. 
Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty 
much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any experince 
with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant with 
experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@microesys.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2003 9:56 PM
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AVR-Chat] AT89C5131 help
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The main 
> reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB and we 
> like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of 
> Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want to 
> quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the 
> device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code examples. 
> Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty 
> much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any experince 
> with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant with 
> experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.
> 
> Mike

First off this is the AVR list, different Processor. Second Off Atmel
are hard to deal with UNLESS you are placing reasonable orders, if you
only need say 1K parts then they are not worried, start talkin 50K+ and
they are helpful. 

If your country has an FAE, go to them, they may charge, they may have
some free advice.

Regards,

Kat.

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--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Quinlan" <kat-yahoo@k...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@m...] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2003 9:56 PM
> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [AVR-Chat] AT89C5131 help
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The 
main 
> > reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB 
and we 
> > like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of 
> > Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want 
to 
> > quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the 
> > device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code 
examples. 
> > Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty 
> > much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any 
experince 
> > with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant 
with 
> > experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.
> > 
> > Mike
> 
> First off this is the AVR list, different Processor. Second Off 
Atmel
> are hard to deal with UNLESS you are placing reasonable orders, if 
you
> only need say 1K parts then they are not worried, start talkin 50K+ 
and
> they are helpful. 
> 
> If your country has an FAE, go to them, they may charge, they may 
have
> some free advice.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kat.


Kat,

Thanks for the response. I know this is the AVR group but it was as 
close as I could get, I've searched a bunch for anything on-line 
about this part with little results. Yes, I have talked to our local 
Atmel person, the salesman at the disty, their FAE, the Rep and the 
Business Development manager at Atmel. Haven't got a lot of useful 
info, it seems you're right that it takes a lot to get Atmel's 
attention. I may end up with a Cypress chip or a Cygnal chip.

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@microesys.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 December 2003 8:52 PM
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: AT89C5131 help
> 
> 
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Quinlan" <kat-yahoo@k...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@m...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2003 9:56 PM
> > > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [AVR-Chat] AT89C5131 help
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The
> main 
> > > reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB
> and we 
> > > like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of
> > > Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want 
> to 
> > > quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the
> > > device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code 
> examples. 
> > > Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty
> > > much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any 
> experince 
> > > with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant
> with 
> > > experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > 
> > First off this is the AVR list, different Processor. Second Off
> Atmel
> > are hard to deal with UNLESS you are placing reasonable orders, if
> you
> > only need say 1K parts then they are not worried, start talkin 50K+
> and
> > they are helpful.
> > 
> > If your country has an FAE, go to them, they may charge, they may
> have
> > some free advice.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Kat.
> 
> 
> Kat,
> 
> Thanks for the response. I know this is the AVR group but it was as 
> close as I could get, I've searched a bunch for anything on-line 
> about this part with little results. Yes, I have talked to our local 
> Atmel person, the salesman at the disty, their FAE, the Rep and the 
> Business Development manager at Atmel. Haven't got a lot of useful 
> info, it seems you're right that it takes a lot to get Atmel's 
> attention. I may end up with a Cypress chip or a Cygnal chip.

If you want to switch to the AVR part AT43USB355, I can be of some
assistance, I am currently developing with this part, as it has an AVR
core it acts like an AT90S8515/ ATMEGA8515 with USB support and 2 port
hub built in :o)

Regards,

Kat.

---
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Mike Unger wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Quinlan" <kat-yahoo@k...> 
> wrote:
> 
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@m...] 
>>>Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2003 9:56 PM
>>>To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: [AVR-Chat] AT89C5131 help
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The 
> 
> main 
> 
>>>reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB 
> 
> and we 
> 
>>>like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of 
>>>Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want 
> 
> to 
> 
>>>quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the 
>>>device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code 
> 
> examples. 
> 
>>>Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty 
>>>much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any 
> 
> experince 
> 
>>>with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant 
> 
> with 
> 
>>>experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>First off this is the AVR list, different Processor. Second Off 
> 
> Atmel
> 
>>are hard to deal with UNLESS you are placing reasonable orders, if 
> 
> you
> 
>>only need say 1K parts then they are not worried, start talkin 50K+ 
> 
> and
> 
>>they are helpful. 
>>
>>If your country has an FAE, go to them, they may charge, they may 
> 
> have
> 
>>some free advice.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Kat.
> 
> 
> 
> Kat,
> 
> Thanks for the response. I know this is the AVR group but it was as 
> close as I could get, I've searched a bunch for anything on-line 
> about this part with little results. Yes, I have talked to our local 
> Atmel person, the salesman at the disty, their FAE, the Rep and the 
> Business Development manager at Atmel. Haven't got a lot of useful 
> info, it seems you're right that it takes a lot to get Atmel's 
> attention. I may end up with a Cypress chip or a Cygnal chip.
> 
> Mike

Kat any luck ?

One thing to be aware of if your already not,
is the compiler supplied with the cygnal kits is not
the full version but a limited edition.

Also its not cygnal any more but silicon laboritories.
Entering www.cygnal.com takes you to
http://www.silabs.com/products/microcontroller/

Came across another micro with usb the other day.
Bga only - pain.
Analog devices BF-535
They call it a embedded processor but its more of a dsp.
http://www.analog.com/selectiontable/ADSP-BF535P
http://www.analog.com/IST/SelectionTableProcessors/?selection_table_id=31

Also for anyone considering dsp
have a look at this
http://www.analog.com/Analog_Root/static/promotions/BlackfinGO/index.html

http://www.analog.com/processors/epProductPage/0,2542,BF533%252DHARDWARE,00.html
board comes out at Aus$150 (US$99) + p&h  from memec
not bad for a 600MHz dsp + 32MB ram

The bf-533 in the kit doesn't have usb support builtin.
(There is a lqfp chip version - runs 300MHz ).

The c\c++ compiler and ide is quite nice.
Basically visual studio 6 ide.
Compiler in the kit is executable size limited to
requires that the EZ-Kit be connected to the USB port
(like a dongle) once over the 90 eval period.
There is no time bomb.


Alex Gibson

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Gibson [mailto:alxx@alxx.net] 
> Sent: Friday, 26 December 2003 9:49 PM
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: AT89C5131 help
> 
> 
> Mike Unger wrote:
> 
> > --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy Quinlan" <kat-yahoo@k...>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Mike Unger [mailto:munger@m...]
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, 23 December 2003 9:56 PM
> >>>To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> >>>Subject: [AVR-Chat] AT89C5131 help
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>We are considering using this Atmel USB micro in a project. The
> > 
> > main
> > 
> >>>reason is for the USB. None of our products currently have USB
> > 
> > and we
> > 
> >>>like that this one has an 8051 core, is very small and has 32K of
> >>>Flash code memory. We have one of the development boards and want 
> > 
> > to
> > 
> >>>quickly start developing code for it. The documentation for the
> >>>device is somewhat lacking, there are just not many code 
> > 
> > examples.
> > 
> >>>Also, Atmel has not been very helpful, their attittude is pretty
> >>>much "what you see is what you get". Does anyone have any 
> > 
> > experince
> > 
> >>>with this chip? We would also be willing to hire a consultant
> > 
> > with
> > 
> >>>experience to get us jump-started on this project. Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >>
> >>First off this is the AVR list, different Processor. Second Off
> > 
> > Atmel
> > 
> >>are hard to deal with UNLESS you are placing reasonable orders, if
> > 
> > you
> > 
> >>only need say 1K parts then they are not worried, start talkin 50K+
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >>they are helpful.
> >>
> >>If your country has an FAE, go to them, they may charge, they may
> > 
> > have
> > 
> >>some free advice.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Kat.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Kat,
> > 
> > Thanks for the response. I know this is the AVR group but it was as
> > close as I could get, I've searched a bunch for anything on-line 
> > about this part with little results. Yes, I have talked to 
> our local 
> > Atmel person, the salesman at the disty, their FAE, the Rep and the 
> > Business Development manager at Atmel. Haven't got a lot of useful 
> > info, it seems you're right that it takes a lot to get Atmel's 
> > attention. I may end up with a Cypress chip or a Cygnal chip.
> > 
> > Mike
> 
> Kat any luck ?

I am using the AVR one :o) Apart from not being able to program the
EEPROM from the Parallel port is all good, bit of a pain pulling an 8pin
dip to program then put it back in to load code, but my Atmle rep is
looking into the problem :o)

Regards,

Kat.

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At 07:49 AM 12/26/2003 -0800, techy fellow wrote:
>Hi,
>
> 
>
>I know this thread is for AVR, but, I've no where to turn to. May I know whether the above 8051 chip can be re-programed ? I read the specs from Dallas website and it stated it is a EPROM (OTP). I guess not but, I just want to be sure.

OTP means One Time Programmable.

SOME 8051 variants can use an external bus, and you can then put an external eprom on, but that eats up most of the pins.

Thanks alot for the fast reply. I managed to buy a discarded portable hand-held device (I think it is for entering of PINs) real cheap. My intention is to savage whatever is in there. The main item I'm looking at is the 2 X 16 LCD panel (no back light). But I spotted this chip on the PCB. Thought if I can make use of it, I will buy some more. It cost about USD 3.80 per piece and it is considered cheap even for the LCD itself. In singapore, the same LCD cost about USD 7.80 when new.
 
cheers,
Davis

David VanHorn <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote:
At 07:49 AM 12/26/2003 -0800, techy fellow wrote:
>Hi,
>
> 
>
>I know this thread is for AVR, but, I've no where to turn to. May I know whether the above 8051 chip can be re-programed ? I read the specs from Dallas website and it stated it is a EPROM (OTP). I guess not but, I just want to be sure.

OTP means One Time Programmable.

SOME 8051 variants can use an external bus, and you can then put an external eprom on, but that eats up most of the pins. 




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techy fellow wrote:
> Thanks alot for the fast reply. I managed to buy a discarded portable
> hand-held device (I think it is for entering of PINs) real cheap. My
> intention is to savage whatever is in there. The main item I'm
> looking at is the 2 X 16 LCD panel (no back light). But I spotted
> this chip on the PCB. Thought if I can make use of it, I will buy
> some more. It cost about USD 3.80 per piece and it is considered
> cheap even for the LCD itself. In singapore, the same LCD cost about
> USD 7.80 when new.


The 87C530, look for the "7" in the "87", this "7" means with internal
customer programmable code memory.

In the old days, anything with "7" means an eprom, like the 27Cxx (for eprom
chips), 87C51 (for the 8051 with internal eprom), etc.   Being a 87XXX it
means the chip comes out of the factory with the memory all "FFh", and it
would be programmed by the customer.  It has a real eprom inside, the
difference is if it has a crystal window or not.

With the crystal window, you could erase the eprom (by using UV light) and
reprogram again and again.  Crystal window (not glass) requires mechanical
physical protection for installation, so the chip NEEDs to be done in
ceramic.  Without the crystal window, the chip can be made in plastic, thus,
lower cost, but then, once programmed the chip can't be erased, so the name
OTP (one time programming).  Both versions, with the window or not, will
have the same prefix "87C530", they are EXACTLY the same inside, if you
could poke a hole over the OTP chip and expose it to UV it would erase, and
would be programmed again, but chances are you would damage the chip.

Wagner Lipnharski - email:  wagner@ustr.net
UST Research Inc. - Development Director
http://www.ustr.net - Orlando Florida 32837
Licensed Consultant Atmel AVR _/_/_/_/_/_/
December 26, 2003 12:34 pm

Hi Wagner,
 
That's very kind of you to explain it in such detailed level. Gained alot from your explanation. As I'm a newbie, I will forget abt drilling holes. Anyhow, I'm into ATMEL and PIC, therefore, no point wasting effort in savaging the chip. I've savaged a LCD, a clock crystal (3.2768), a 33 Mhz crystal, a NE555D SMD chip (I think it is a 555 timer chip), etc.. I guess these already worth the USD3.80.
 
Once again, Thanks alot for the help, Wagner. You have a wonderful weekend.
 
cheers,
Davis

Wagner Lipnharski <wagner@ustr.net> wrote:
techy fellow wrote:
> Thanks alot for the fast reply. I managed to buy a discarded portable
> hand-held device (I think it is for entering of PINs) real cheap. My
> intention is to savage whatever is in there. The main item I'm
> looking at is the 2 X 16 LCD panel (no back light). But I spotted
> this chip on the PCB. Thought if I can make use of it, I will buy
> some more. It cost about USD 3.80 per piece and it is considered
> cheap even for the LCD itself. In singapore, the same LCD cost about
> USD 7.80 when new.


The 87C530, look for the "7" in the "87", this "7" means with internal
customer programmable code memory.

In the old days, anything with "7" means an eprom, like the 27Cxx (for eprom
chips), 87C51 (for the 8051 with internal eprom), etc.   Being a 87XXX it
means the chip comes out of the factory with the memory all "FFh", and it
would be programmed by the customer.  It has a real eprom inside, the
difference is if it has a crystal window or not.

With the crystal window, you could erase the eprom (by using UV light) and
reprogram again and again.  Crystal window (not glass) requires mechanical
physical protection for installation, so the chip NEEDs to be done in
ceramic.  Without the crystal window, the chip can be made in plastic, thus,
lower cost, but then, once programmed the chip can't be erased, so the name
OTP (one time programming).  Both versions, with the window or not, will
have the same prefix "87C530", they are EXACTLY the same inside, if you
could poke a hole over the OTP chip and expose it to UV it would erase, and
would be programmed again, but chances are you would damage the chip.

Wagner Lipnharski - email:  wagner@ustr.net
UST Research Inc. - Development Director
http://www.ustr.net - Orlando Florida 32837
Licensed Consultant Atmel AVR _/_/_/_/_/_/
December 26, 2003 12:34 pm





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Hi Davis,
visit my website at http://www.ustr.net, I am sure you will find lots of
good stuf. :)
http://www.ustr.net/memory.htm is a good one for memories.
http://www.ustr.net/smt/ is a good one for smd soldering.
enjoy.
Wagner.

techy fellow wrote:

> Hi Wagner,
>
> That's very kind of you to explain it in such detailed level. Gained
> alot from your explanation. As I'm a newbie, I will forget abt
> drilling holes. Anyhow, I'm into ATMEL and PIC, therefore, no point
> wasting effort in savaging the chip. I've savaged a LCD, a clock
> crystal (3.2768), a 33 Mhz crystal, a NE555D SMD chip (I think it is
> a 555 timer chip), etc.. I guess these already worth the USD3.80.
>
> Once again, Thanks alot for the help, Wagner. You have a wonderful
> weekend.
>
> cheers,
> Davis
>
> Wagner Lipnharski <wagner@ustr.net> wrote:
> techy fellow wrote:
>> Thanks alot for the fast reply. I managed to buy a discarded portable
>> hand-held device (I think it is for entering of PINs) real cheap. My
>> intention is to savage whatever is in there. The main item I'm
>> looking at is the 2 X 16 LCD panel (no back light). But I spotted
>> this chip on the PCB. Thought if I can make use of it, I will buy
>> some more. It cost about USD 3.80 per piece and it is considered
>> cheap even for the LCD itself. In singapore, the same LCD cost about
>> USD 7.80 when new.
>
>
> The 87C530, look for the "7" in the "87", this "7" means with internal
> customer programmable code memory.
>
> In the old days, anything with "7" means an eprom, like the 27Cxx
> (for eprom
> chips), 87C51 (for the 8051 with internal eprom), etc.   Being a
> 87XXX it
> means the chip comes out of the factory with the memory all "FFh",
> and it
> would be programmed by the customer.  It has a real eprom inside, the
> difference is if it has a crystal window or not.
>
> With the crystal window, you could erase the eprom (by using UV
> light) and
> reprogram again and again.  Crystal window (not glass) requires
> mechanical
> physical protection for installation, so the chip NEEDs to be done in
> ceramic.  Without the crystal window, the chip can be made in
> plastic, thus,
> lower cost, but then, once programmed the chip can't be erased, so
> the name
> OTP (one time programming).  Both versions, with the window or not,
> will
> have the same prefix "87C530", they are EXACTLY the same inside, if
> you
> could poke a hole over the OTP chip and expose it to UV it would
> erase, and
> would be programmed again, but chances are you would damage the chip.
>
> Wagner Lipnharski - email:  wagner@ustr.net
> UST Research Inc. - Development Director
> http://www.ustr.net - Orlando Florida 32837
> Licensed Consultant Atmel AVR _/_/_/_/_/_/
> December 26, 2003 12:34 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AVR-Chat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
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