AVR-Chat

Hi gang..

Just a quickie to let ya know so far, so good..!! I got the Buttery 
to sit on Graham's carrier board. It is a well done PCB Graham..!! 
(Butterfly guy's gota get this thing) http://www.ecrostech.com
Idea for next PCB rev: FTDI FT8U232 USB chip..!! 
      Yea baby!  Steal the power to run the whole board..

Anyway, I got the WinAvr tools and AVR s4 installed and settled in..

I also did some poking around the Bascomus group and at AVRfreaks 
site, there is an email I found that said the next version of Bascom 
will contain an ATmega 169 setup and it will work with the "factory" 
installed monitor code..!!! I bought the copy of Basecom I have so 
the updates sould show up for it..

I want to thank EVERYONE in the GROUP for the time spent helpin 
us "newbie's" get some..!!

        jea

Hi All,
 
While looking at ECROS Technology website, I came across the, 'JTAG-ICE for Atmel AVR ATmega', and comtemplated to buy one for my STK500. Before I part with USD 53 (ie. including air-mail costs to Singapore), can someone be so kind to share with his/ her experience using it. Just FYI, I am a newbie in electronics.
 
Thanks in advance for the info.
 
cheers,


John Allen <johna_zonker@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi gang..

Just a quickie to let ya know so far, so good..!! I got the Buttery 
to sit on Graham's carrier board. It is a well done PCB Graham..!! 
(Butterfly guy's gota get this thing) http://www.ecrostech.com
Idea for next PCB rev: FTDI FT8U232 USB chip..!! 
      Yea baby!  Steal the power to run the whole board..

Anyway, I got the WinAvr tools and AVR s4 installed and settled in..

I also did some poking around the Bascomus group and at AVRfreaks 
site, there is an email I found that said the next version of Bascom 
will contain an ATmega 169 setup and it will work with the "factory" 
installed monitor code..!!! I bought the copy of Basecom I have so 
the updates sould show up for it..

I want to thank EVERYONE in the GROUP for the time spent helpin 
us "newbie's" get some..!!

        jea





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I have just received the Butterfly carrier board and the JTAG ICE Cube from
ECROS.  Hope to test them tomorrow.  I'll let you know.  I'll also test the JTAG
ICE Cube with the STK-500.
 
... unless maybe someone else cares to comment before I get to it.



Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck 


  _____  

From: techy fellow [mailto:techyf@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:46 PM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] The Butterfly is flying !!


Hi All,
 
While looking at ECROS Technology website, I came across the, 'JTAG-ICE for
Atmel AVR ATmega', and comtemplated to buy one for my STK500. Before I part with
USD 53 (ie. including air-mail costs to Singapore), can someone be so kind to
share with his/ her experience using it. Just FYI, I am a newbie in electronics.
 
Thanks in advance for the info.
 
cheers,


John Allen <johna_zonker@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, techy fellow <techyf@y...> wrote:

> Before I part with [money] can
> someone be so kind to share ...
> his/ her experience using [the
> ECROS Technology AVR ICE-Cube]

This is a great idea ... just what discussion groups are for. I don't 
want to discourage you from seeking opinions before you buy, but let 
me say that if the AVR ICE-Cube does not perform as I claim, anyone 
can return it for a full refund.

For example, someone bought it to use with an ATmega162 in an STK500. 
It turns out that the JTAG interface is on a different set of port 
pins on the ATmega162 as opposed to the ATmega16. This means that the 
STK500 adapter is incorrectly wired for the ATmega162. So, although 
the AVR ICE-Cube is fine - it is only the free adapter that does not 
work in this particular case - I will refund the purchase price to 
this customer.

Discussion groups like this make sure people like me deliver the 
value they promise. If anyone finds my products to be defective or 
shoddy they can greatly affect my sales by posting that information 
here (or the reverse, of course). My thanks go out to the ATmega162 
guy for not flaming me in public because it wasn't obvious at first 
that the problem lay in the free adapter and the ATmega162 pinout and 
not in the AVE ICE-Cube itself.

Graham.

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "John Allen" <johna_zonker@y...> 
wrote:

> Idea for next PCB rev:
> FTDI FT8U232 USB chip..!! 

USB is actually in my product plan and I've begun collecting parts.

My products don't (yet?!?) bring in enough to call a proper income 
and in fact my intent is to become known as a source of engineering 
services for microcontroller products. At the moment, I am dipping 
back into my former career that went bust with the Internet crash. I 
am writing software to control a high-end Ethernet switch chip in an 
Ethernet-over-SONET box. This limits the time I have to develop new 
products and I'm concentrating on the Butterfly Carrier and ICE-Cube. 
But, when this contract is over, I will be back on the bench (in more 
ways than one).

Thanks to everyone for their support and suggestions. Let me know if 
my advertising ever gets to pushy. My intent in mentioning my 
products is often to pick up someone who may have recently joined the 
group. I will restrain myself and not even put my Web site in this 
post!

Graham.

We're always interested in new tools, especially those that WORK, and have 
good support!

BTW: I'll be mostly offline for the next few days.

> From: techy fellow
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> While looking at ECROS Technology website, I came across the, 
> 'JTAG-ICE for Atmel AVR ATmega', and comtemplated to buy one 
> for my STK500. Before I part with USD 53 (ie. including 
> air-mail costs to Singapore), can someone be so kind to share 
> with his/ her experience using it. Just FYI, I am a newbie in 
> electronics.
>  
> Thanks in advance for the info.

Hi techy,

I told you that I would get back to you after I had put my new JTAG ICE Cube to
work.  In attempting to use it with both the STK500 and ECROS's Butterfly
Carrier Board I had a couple of problems but I discovered that:

1) As an experienced mainframe and minicomputer software developer trained as an
Electrical Engineer ... I've got a lot to learn to catch up on technology!

2) You have to have the JTAGEN fuse programmed in the ATMega16 (Brain Dead User
problem #1, as a new user I misread the programming dialog box).

3) You can't use all of PORTC on an ATMega16 with the JTAG enabled 'cause they
share pins (Brain Dead User problem #2, I should have read the docs more closely
... But hey, it was only the LED version of 'hello world', easy, right ...)

4) Graham provides great support ... Even to newbies like me!  He answers email
questions quickly and it was obvious he was still thinking about my problem even
after having answered my email as he sent a follow-up email later.

My opinion: Send your money, it's a great product with great support ...

... I have no financial interest in ECROS (http://www.ecrostech.com/) other than
as a happy customer ...

Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

Hi Chuck,
 
Thanks so much for the detailed explanations. I will order one from Graham together with the 'Butterfly Carrier board'.
 
cheers,
Davis

Chuck Hackett <egroupscdh@WhiteTrout.net> wrote:
> From: techy fellow
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> While looking at ECROS Technology website, I came across the, 
> 'JTAG-ICE for Atmel AVR ATmega', and comtemplated to buy one 
> for my STK500. Before I part with USD 53 (ie. including 
> air-mail costs to Singapore), can someone be so kind to share 
> with his/ her experience using it. Just FYI, I am a newbie in 
> electronics.
>  
> Thanks in advance for the info.

Hi techy,

I told you that I would get back to you after I had put my new JTAG ICE Cube to
work.  In attempting to use it with both the STK500 and ECROS's Butterfly
Carrier Board I had a couple of problems but I discovered that:

1) As an experienced mainframe and minicomputer software developer trained as an
Electrical Engineer ... I've got a lot to learn to catch up on technology!

2) You have to have the JTAGEN fuse programmed in the ATMega16 (Brain Dead User
problem #1, as a new user I misread the programming dialog box).

3) You can't use all of PORTC on an ATMega16 with the JTAG enabled 'cause they
share pins (Brain Dead User problem #2, I should have read the docs more closely
... But hey, it was only the LED version of 'hello world', easy, right ...)

4) Graham provides great support ... Even to newbies like me!  He answers email
questions quickly and it was obvious he was still thinking about my problem even
after having answered my email as he sent a follow-up email later.

My opinion: Send your money, it's a great product with great support ...

... I have no financial interest in ECROS (http://www.ecrostech.com/) other than
as a happy customer ...

Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck



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--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@W...> 
wrote:

> ... JTAG ICE Cube ... STK500 and ECROS's
> Butterfly Carrier ... couple of problems ...

Thanks for this post, Chuck, this is the Internet at its best. If I 
do a good job I win, if I don't I lose. No hiding here!

Your start-up problems were, of course, unrelated to the ICE-Cube 
itself and you would have had the same issues with the Atmel JTAG ICE 
or any other. It should also be said that you solved the problems 
yourself though my brain certainly got a work out too!

Regarding the JTAGEN fuse, it is programmed in the chips as they come 
from Atmel, so the safest thing is to leave it alone. You do not need 
an ISP interface (in addition to JTAG) to program this fuse before 
you can start debugging. I agree that AVR Studio's fuse dialog can be 
confusing. The text does seem to say you have the fuse programmed, 
but this is only true if the checkbox at the left has the check mark 
in it. Otherwise, the text is precisely false! (Embedded Systems 
Programming magazine has a good article on user interface design this 
month.)

Graham.

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Drennan" <ianid@s...> wrote:

> Please can someone explain when and
> why I will need to use an ICE ...

When and why are both the same. You will need to use 'an ICE' 
when/because you want to see the effect of your software on the 
actual hardware or when the hardware is affecting the operation of 
your software and you need to see how. In my opinion, this situation 
is bound to come up sooner or later in any serious embedded systems 
work. The simulator is great while you're interested only in what's 
going on inside the microcontroller. When you interact with the real 
world, it gets harder to use effectively.

> ... and how an ICE actually works.

See http://www.ecrostech.com, click on JTAG ICE for Atmel AVR and 
click on technical details.

> I intend using Mega8 and Mega16
> chips which I inderstand are JTAG
> supported.

ATmega16, yes. Not the ATmega8, though. It's only a 28/32 pin package.

Graham.

> From: Graham Davies
> ....
> Regarding the JTAGEN fuse, it is programmed in the chips as 
> they come from Atmel, so the safest thing is to leave it 
> alone.

Strange.  The ATMega16 I was using was fresh from Digikey but, in my noviceness
I may have cleared the fuse.

But, if the fuse is enabled from the factory doesn't this mean that the JTAG
lines on the PORTC are unavailable until you clear it?  Of course that would
mean that you couldn't use the JTAG to program the chip as received from the
factory.

Oh, well, I'm up and running so no matter :-)

Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

----- Original Message -----

From: "Graham Davies" <YahooGroups@ecrostech.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:55 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: The Butterfly is flying !!


>
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@W...>
> wrote:
>
> > ... JTAG ICE Cube ... STK500 and ECROS's
> > Butterfly Carrier ... couple of problems ...
>
> Thanks for this post, Chuck, this is the Internet at its best. If I
> do a good job I win, if I don't I lose. No hiding here!
>
> Your start-up problems were, of course, unrelated to the ICE-Cube
> itself and you would have had the same issues with the Atmel JTAG ICE
> or any other. It should also be said that you solved the problems
> yourself though my brain certainly got a work out too!
>
> Regarding the JTAGEN fuse, it is programmed in the chips as they come
> from Atmel, so the safest thing is to leave it alone. You do not need
> an ISP interface (in addition to JTAG) to program this fuse before
> you can start debugging. I agree that AVR Studio's fuse dialog can be
> confusing. The text does seem to say you have the fuse programmed,
> but this is only true if the checkbox at the left has the check mark
> in it. Otherwise, the text is precisely false! (Embedded Systems
> Programming magazine has a good article on user interface design this
> month.)
>
> Graham.

Greetings all
I am new to this group and have some experience with PIC's, Oopics and have
now started experimenting with AVR's. I received my STK500 a week ago and
have been pleasantly surprised at how things have fallen into place. The
richer instruction set is almost like a higher level language, especially
after bashing around with the PIC instruction set.
So far I have managed to get most of the peripherals on the AT90S8515
working and have been debugging my code using the Atmel Studio 4 Simulator.
There are obvious limitations with what can be achieved with the simulator
in terms of real time debugging.

Please can someone explain when and why I will need to use an ICE and how an
ICE actually works. I intend using Mega8 and Mega16 chips which I inderstand
are JTAG supported.

Many thanks
Ian

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Hackett" <egroupscdh@W...> 
wrote:

> ...  The ATMega16 I was using was
> fresh from Digikey but ... I may
> have cleared the fuse.

This is worth getting straight because if Atmel don't program the 
fuse it means you can't have a JTAG-only development setup. You'd 
need ISP as well just to program that fuse before you can get into 
the chip with JTAG. This would be a shame. I can't think of anything 
you'd need ISP for if you had JTAG. This, of course, only applies if 
you've taken the decision to go JTAG, which is not right for everyone.

I looked at the data sheets for the ATmega16, ATmega32, ATmega169, 
ATmega64 and AT90CAN128. In all of them, the 'default' state of the 
JTAGEN fuse is zero (programmed) which enables the JTAG interface. I 
am assuming that 'default' means the state in which the fuse is when 
the part is shipped from the factory.

I also fired up some AVR ICE-Cubes that are assembled but not yet 
loaded with software. The JTAGEN fuse was already programmed.

I have some ATmega64s, ATmega128s and AT90CAN128s, but they look so 
peaceful and comfortable in their little conductive plastic trays 
with the clear lid on top that I didn't have the heart to rip them 
out. I would do it if there is real concern about the correctness of 
the data sheets.

> ... if the fuse is enabled from
> the factory doesn't this mean that
> the JTAG lines on the PORTC are
> unavailable until you clear it?

Yes, or you could disable the JTAG interface in your software by 
setting a bit the name of which escapes me for the moment (JTD?). 
That method gives you some ability to reclaim the four JTAG pins for 
your application but still use JTAG for on-chip debug. Clearing the 
fuse is not a great inconvenience as you're almost certain to be in 
there fiddling with the clock fuses anyway.

> ... that would mean that you
> couldn't use the JTAG to program
> the chip as received from the
> factory.

Until you'd programmed the fuse with ISP, right. This is no problem 
if you have ISP, but it would be nice to know you don't need it if 
you have JTAG.

Conclusion - evidence points to my assertion that the JTAGEN fuse is 
programmed at the factory being correct. A JTAG OCD interface will 
work with devices as Atmel deliver them. You don't need ISP as well.

Graham.

P.S. Isn't there anyone from Atmel here? The Z8 Encore! group is 
erratically visited by ZiLOG people, though I should say that the 
answers they give are more often wrong than right.

> From: Graham Davies
> ....
> Conclusion - evidence points to my assertion that the JTAGEN 
> fuse is programmed at the factory being correct. A JTAG OCD 
> interface will work with devices as Atmel deliver them. You 
> don't need ISP as well.

No way I doubt your assertion.  It makes perfect sense and agrees with
documentation.  All I was saying was that when I looked at my ATMega16 it wasn't
programmed but my assumption all along was that in my 'newbieness' I had somehow
cleared it.

Cheers,

Chuck Hackett
"Good judgment comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgment"
7.5" gauge Union Pacific Northern (4-8-4) 844
http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Graham Davies" <YahooGroups@ecrostech.com>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:50 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: The Butterfly is flying !!


> 
> 
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Drennan" <ianid@s...> wrote:
> 
> > Please can someone explain when and
> > why I will need to use an ICE ...
> 
> When and why are both the same. You will need to use 'an ICE' 
> when/because you want to see the effect of your software on the 
> actual hardware or when the hardware is affecting the operation of 
> your software and you need to see how. In my opinion, this situation 
> is bound to come up sooner or later in any serious embedded systems 
> work. The simulator is great while you're interested only in what's 
> going on inside the microcontroller. When you interact with the real 
> world, it gets harder to use effectively.
> 
> > ... and how an ICE actually works.
> 
> See http://www.ecrostech.com, click on JTAG ICE for Atmel AVR and 
> click on technical details.
> 
> > I intend using Mega8 and Mega16
> > chips which I inderstand are JTAG
> > supported.
> 
> ATmega16, yes. Not the ATmega8, though. It's only a 28/32 pin package.
> 
> Graham.

Graham
Thanks for your reply and explanation,
Will give you a shout when I need one, which I think will be soon.
Have read up on JTAG today so I think I now understand the concept.
Regards
Ian