AVR-Chat

Dear all,

  Is it possible to somehow program say 40 or 50 AVRs all at the same time?
Or somehow automate it?
 Also is it possible to do this with Surface mount versions before they're
inserted into the PCB?

 I've had a look and the only thing I can find has lots of 10way IDCs, so
I'd need to mount them all before programming them, which adds parts and
space (and hence cost) to the PCBs?

Paul

Kathy,

> I built a programming jig that can program AVR's quite quickly, it first
> programs the fuses for external clock 16Mhz etc. then programms at ~8Mhz
> then programs the fuses as they are needed.

neat.

> You can use the Idea I use on production PCB's I just place 6 Pads on
> the PCB with a PTH hole, the trace is connected on the bottom of the PCB
> and the top pad has NO traces leeding from it (this is to prevent
> problems if the PTH is damaged) then I press the PCB on a set of gold
> nails and the points sit in the PTH hole, I have a traffic light that
> tells me what is happening (RED means Fail Green means PASS and Yellow
> means programming) If you want speed and you know the PCB is ok and the
> program algorythm is good then you can skip the verify and just test the
> PCB's that fail (sometimes some chips need a slightly slower SCK for ISP)

Damn thats a good idea!
Cheers

> This method does not add much in the way of board realestate, and
> virtually nill cost (only 6 extra holes and size is not important as
> long as you can get some gold nails (mine are Oscope probe tips from RS
> that are just soldered to a dummy PCB (I try to keep as many designs as
> possible using the same mounting holes and places for the ISP connections)

cool, another good idea, I've got a pile of old probes in a box at home.

> Another option one customer of mine uses is to route the traces to the
> edge of the PCB and has a snap off section that goes into an edge card
> connector, just rub the contacts with a pencil eraser, plug in, program,
> test and snap off the excess PCB (the traces are spaced apart wide
> enough not to need any cleaning once snapped and do not short out....

nice, but if you run into problems and need to repair the board later,
you've desctroyed the interface.

Thanks for the ideas.
I think JIG with PTH idea is the way to go, something I can make myself.

Paul

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Paul Maddox
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:07 PM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Programming multiple AVRs


Dear all,

  Is it possible to somehow program say 40 or 50 AVRs all at the same time?
Or somehow automate it?
Also is it possible to do this with Surface mount versions before they're
inserted into the PCB?

I've had a look and the only thing I can find has lots of 10way IDCs, so
I'd need to mount them all before programming them, which adds parts and
space (and hence cost) to the PCBs?

There are quite expensive gang programmers that will program several devices 
at the same time. I've designed a simple programmer PCB for the Tiny11 that 
takes the SOIC device, with an expensive adapter.

Leon

Paul Maddox wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
>   Is it possible to somehow program say 40 or 50 AVRs all at the same time?
> Or somehow automate it?

I built a programming jig that can program AVR's quite quickly, it first 
programs the fuses for external clock 16Mhz etc. then programms at ~8Mhz 
then programs the fuses as they are needed.

>  Also is it possible to do this with Surface mount versions before they're
> inserted into the PCB?

Yeap mine has a TSOP socket, but they are expensive.
> 
>  I've had a look and the only thing I can find has lots of 10way IDCs, so
> I'd need to mount them all before programming them, which adds parts and
> space (and hence cost) to the PCBs?
> 

You can use the Idea I use on production PCB's I just place 6 Pads on 
the PCB with a PTH hole, the trace is connected on the bottom of the PCB 
and the top pad has NO traces leeding from it (this is to prevent 
problems if the PTH is damaged) then I press the PCB on a set of gold 
nails and the points sit in the PTH hole, I have a traffic light that 
tells me what is happening (RED means Fail Green means PASS and Yellow 
means programming) If you want speed and you know the PCB is ok and the 
program algorythm is good then you can skip the verify and just test the 
PCB's that fail (sometimes some chips need a slightly slower SCK for ISP)

This method does not add much in the way of board realestate, and 
virtually nill cost (only 6 extra holes and size is not important as 
long as you can get some gold nails (mine are Oscope probe tips from RS 
that are just soldered to a dummy PCB (I try to keep as many designs as 
possible using the same mounting holes and places for the ISP connections)

Another option one customer of mine uses is to route the traces to the 
edge of the PCB and has a snap off section that goes into an edge card 
connector, just rub the contacts with a pencil eraser, plug in, program, 
test and snap off the excess PCB (the traces are spaced apart wide 
enough not to need any cleaning once snapped and do not short out....


Regards,

Kat.




-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
K.A.Q. Electronics	Website: www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
IM: Yahoo: PinkyDwaggy  MSN: katinka@kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
For Everything Electronics     Phone: 0419 923 731
---------------------------------------------------------------

Paul,

In another life, I was a Purchasing Agent for a small
electronics firm.  It depends on the quantity of parts
you order and who you order them from, but you can
often get programmable parts of all sorts programmed
by the vendor.  A well-equipped vendor should be able
to program SMT parts as well.

Unfortunately, we're talking about the Arrows,
Pioneers and Hamilton-Avnets of the world to do volume
programming, not the small vendors I purchase from
now.

And no, you don't have to install the 10 pin headers. 
If your having a 3rd party program the boards, just
make sure they have a 'bed of nails' system.  You'll
find the headers cheaper, though.

HTH,

Jeff Engel
--- Paul Maddox <P.Maddox@signal.qinetiq.com> wrote:

> 
> Dear all,
> 
>   Is it possible to somehow program say 40 or 50
> AVRs all at the same time?
> Or somehow automate it?
>  Also is it possible to do this with Surface mount
> versions before they're
> inserted into the PCB?
> 
>  I've had a look and the only thing I can find has
> lots of 10way IDCs, so
> I'd need to mount them all before programming them,
> which adds parts and
> space (and hence cost) to the PCBs?
> 
> Paul


=====
Happiness is - positive intake manifold pressure.


		
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Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Maddox" <P.Maddox@s...> wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
>   Is it possible to somehow program say 40 or 50 AVRs all at the 
same time?
> Or somehow automate it?
>  Also is it possible to do this with Surface mount versions before 
they're
> inserted into the PCB?
> 
>  I've had a look and the only thing I can find has lots of 10way 
IDCs, so
> I'd need to mount them all before programming them, which adds 
parts and
> space (and hence cost) to the PCBs?

Have a look at how Dieter is making his Nixie clocks ...

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/v300/chronotronix-v300.htm

He has a really simple jig built of wood that uses a couple of card 
guides to position the board correctly.  The board has bare fingers 
routed right to the edge that slide into an edge connector.

Slide the board into the jig, program/test and you're done.

Dean.

Good god, Nixie tubes!?!? Can you still buy those things?

I remember designing a time code generator for our tracking stations that
had a bank of nine tubes in the display. That was 35 years ago! What next,
counters using ac cross coupled triodes (tubes)?

Bruce

> 
> Have a look at how Dieter is making his Nixie clocks ...
> 
> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/v300/chronotronix-v300.htm
> 
> He has a really simple jig built of wood that uses a couple of card
> guides to position the board correctly.  The board has bare fingers
> routed right to the edge that slide into an edge connector.
> 
> Slide the board into the jig, program/test and you're done.
> 
> Dean.

Dean,

> Have a look at how Dieter is making his Nixie clocks ...
> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/v300/chronotronix-v300.htm

yep, nice, another suggestion to consider...

Paul