AVR-Chat

Hi to all!
  Is it possible to use FPGA to inerface the Atmega 128 with 32-bit
CardBus PC Card.
  Or else we can omit the FPGa and directly interface with AVR?

Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will replace my
current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.

It must work from 1.8V to 5V and support standard SPI programming.

I'm fed up with my damn Kanda device letting me down once every month and
always two days before my deadline this is not the only time this has
happened I'm sick and tired of my "tools" not working 

The dongle I'm looking for must be totally isolated able to withstand a
hellfire missile and if I tell it to program a totally shorted AVR processor
then it must burn the shorts making it work again... 

I'm so mad right now that cost is really no issue, as long as it works and
its one billion percent reliable, in environments from deep space to the
polar circle and finally on the sun it self...

Since my Kanda properly fucked my parallel port up I'm in no mood for
another obsolete serial or parallel port dongle that I have to purchase an
old Pico line 8086 pc in order to operate successfully... 

There must be some USB, Firewire, PCI or even PCMCIA card that can be
purchased that just works...

Please give me a lot of response to what tools you are using and please
please please tell me if they work every day or you must walk three times
around a berry bush and sing Indian songs to make it work very other day...

Regards
Lasse Madsen

Lasse Madsen wrote:
> Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will replace my
> current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.
> 
> It must work from 1.8V to 5V and support standard SPI programming.
> 
> I'm fed up with my damn Kanda device letting me down once every month and
> always two days before my deadline this is not the only time this has
> happened I'm sick and tired of my "tools" not working 
> 
> The dongle I'm looking for must be totally isolated able to withstand a
> hellfire missile and if I tell it to program a totally shorted AVR processor
> then it must burn the shorts making it work again... 
> 
> I'm so mad right now that cost is really no issue, as long as it works and
> its one billion percent reliable, in environments from deep space to the
> polar circle and finally on the sun it self...
> 
> Since my Kanda properly fucked my parallel port up I'm in no mood for
> another obsolete serial or parallel port dongle that I have to purchase an
> old Pico line 8086 pc in order to operate successfully... 
> 
> There must be some USB, Firewire, PCI or even PCMCIA card that can be
> purchased that just works...
> 
> Please give me a lot of response to what tools you are using and please
> please please tell me if they work every day or you must walk three times
> around a berry bush and sing Indian songs to make it work very other day...
> 
> Regards
> Lasse Madsen

I use a genuine atmel avr isp serial programmer that works ok. 1.8V would
be a bit low tho.

AVR Studio Interface
ISP Programming of all AVR Devices

Programs both Flash and EEPROM
Supports Fuses and Lock Bit Programming

Supports RC Oscillator Calibration

Upgradeable to Support Future Devices

Operates at Target Voltages from 2.7V to 5.5V
Adjustable Speed ­ Supports all Target Boards Running at a Speed Higher than 8

kHz
RS-232 Interface

Powered from Target ­ No need for Additional Power

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:37:15 +1000, you wrote:

>Lasse Madsen wrote:
>> Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will replace my
>> current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.
>> 
>> It must work from 1.8V to 5V and support standard SPI programming.
>> 
>> I'm fed up with my damn Kanda device letting me down once every month and
>> always two days before my deadline this is not the only time this has
>> happened I'm sick and tired of my "tools" not working 
>> 
>> The dongle I'm looking for must be totally isolated able to withstand a
>> hellfire missile and if I tell it to program a totally shorted AVR processor
>> then it must burn the shorts making it work again... 
>> 
>> I'm so mad right now that cost is really no issue, as long as it works and
>> its one billion percent reliable, in environments from deep space to the
>> polar circle and finally on the sun it self...
>> 
>> Since my Kanda properly fucked my parallel port up I'm in no mood for
>> another obsolete serial or parallel port dongle that I have to purchase an
>> old Pico line 8086 pc in order to operate successfully... 
>> 
>> There must be some USB, Firewire, PCI or even PCMCIA card that can be
>> purchased that just works...
>> 
>> Please give me a lot of response to what tools you are using and please
>> please please tell me if they work every day or you must walk three times
>> around a berry bush and sing Indian songs to make it work very other day...
>> 
>> Regards
>> Lasse Madsen
>
>I use a genuine atmel avr isp serial programmer that works ok. 1.8V would
>be a bit low tho.
>
>AVR Studio Interface
>ISP Programming of all AVR Devices
>
>Programs both Flash and EEPROM
>Supports Fuses and Lock Bit Programming
>
>Supports RC Oscillator Calibration
>
>Upgradeable to Support Future Devices
>
>Operates at Target Voltages from 2.7V to 5.5V
>Adjustable Speed ­ Supports all Target Boards Running at a Speed Higher than 8
>
>kHz
>RS-232 Interface
>
>Powered from Target ­ No need for Additional Power

Does not fit 'reliable' criteria - My third one died recently for no obvious reason.
Also seems to quite like. trashing the osc fuse settings of the first device programmed after
startup (probably an AVR Studio bug)
However they are cheap enough to carry a couple of spares....

Have you looked at the Equinox range ? They are promoted as production programmers.

At 01:03 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
>Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will replace my
>current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.

Hmmm....I thought everybody knew about AVRISP or STK500 :-)

I have been using the humble AVR910 kit for which I made some
firmware changes (can be found in the files section) and it has
never failed. It is a bit slowish but reliable. I then purchased
the AVRISP which is lightning fast compared to the other programmer
and again very reliable.

The STK500 has the added advantage of parallel high voltage
programming in case you mess up the fuses.
So far in about 5 years I have never needed it.

There are those on this list that swear AT the above of course :-)


Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

At 01:54 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
>Also seems to quite like. trashing the osc fuse settings of the 
>first device programmed after
>startup (probably an AVR Studio bug)

The unfortunate thing I found, and complained about, it the
automatic reading of the fuses and lock bits at start up
instead of remembering MY SETTINGS. So I made it a habit
of starting up the programmer, make sure all the files
required for programming are correct, then set the fuses
and lock bits the way I want them and go to the AUTO page
for programming and don't go back.

I hope future version of studio remove or at least give a choice
of automatic reading or fixed settings.

Apart from that quite reliable.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

John Samperi wrote:

> At 01:03 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
> >Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will 
> replace my
> >current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.
>
> Hmmm....I thought everybody knew about AVRISP or STK500 :-)
>
> I have been using the humble AVR910 kit for which I made some
> firmware changes (can be found in the files section) and it has
> never failed. It is a bit slowish but reliable. I then purchased
> the AVRISP which is lightning fast compared to the other programmer
> and again very reliable.

I made my own super fast (115,200 baud) AVR910 ISP compatible 
programmer. Total cost is less than $9 - see my project page for 
details. If you prefer, the Atmel programmer is $29 from Digikey. Either 
way you should always have the right tool for the right job.

Mike
http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/Projects/

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:17:39 -0500 you wrote:

>John Samperi wrote:
>
>> At 01:03 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
>> >Is it possible to purchase a WORKING programming dongle that will 
>> replace my
>> >current no good totally useless piece of Kanda crap STK200 dongle.
>>
>> Hmmm....I thought everybody knew about AVRISP or STK500 :-)
>>
>> I have been using the humble AVR910 kit for which I made some
>> firmware changes (can be found in the files section) and it has
>> never failed. It is a bit slowish but reliable. I then purchased
>> the AVRISP which is lightning fast compared to the other programmer
>> and again very reliable.
>
>I made my own super fast (115,200 baud) AVR910 ISP compatible 
>programmer. Total cost is less than $9 - see my project page for 
>details. If you prefer, the Atmel programmer is $29 from Digikey. Either 
>way you should always have the right tool for the right job.

I like the 6 pin SIL too. I program my ATmega32s with 6 pins in a row mounted on an old toothbrush
:-)


--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net

John Samperi wrote:
> At 01:54 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
> 
>>Also seems to quite like. trashing the osc fuse settings of the 
>>first device programmed after
>>startup (probably an AVR Studio bug)
> 
> 
> The unfortunate thing I found, and complained about, it the
> automatic reading of the fuses and lock bits at start up
> instead of remembering MY SETTINGS. So I made it a habit
> of starting up the programmer, make sure all the files
> required for programming are correct, then set the fuses
> and lock bits the way I want them and go to the AUTO page
> for programming and don't go back.
> 
> I hope future version of studio remove or at least give a choice
> of automatic reading or fixed settings.
> 
> Apart from that quite reliable.

I've always run the avrisp using avrdude from a script in
debian. Unlike windows, the results are always repeatable
and traceable.

At 09:17 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
>I made my own super fast (115,200 baud) AVR910 ISP compatible
>programmer.

Thanks for the reference to my version...it makes me feel important :-)

Do you still need AVRprog to use your programmer? If so then you will
still be limited in speed by it. I don't know how much difference it
makes running at 115kbaud versus 19200, perhaps you could do some
comparisons and let us know. I know it seems a lot faster, and it would
be if programming speed depended on serial port speed, but it doesn't.
For instance in older chips that are programmed 1 byte at the time I
doubt you would see any difference as the programming time for the
byte is much longer than the ~0.5 ms it takes to send a byte from
the computer.


Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

John Samperi wrote:

> At 09:17 AM 15/08/2005, you wrote:
> >I made my own super fast (115,200 baud) AVR910 ISP compatible
> >programmer.
>
> Thanks for the reference to my version...it makes me feel important :-)
>
> Do you still need AVRprog to use your programmer? If so then you will
> still be limited in speed by it. I don't know how much difference it
> makes running at 115kbaud versus 19200, perhaps you could do some
> comparisons and let us know. I know it seems a lot faster, and it would
> be if programming speed depended on serial port speed, but it doesn't.
> For instance in older chips that are programmed 1 byte at the time I
> doubt you would see any difference as the programming time for the
> byte is much longer than the ~0.5 ms it takes to send a byte from
> the computer.
>
Actually I just reworked a little the programmer developed by Klaus 
Leidinger 
(http://www.klaus-leidinger.de/mp/Mikrocontroller/AVR-Prog/AVR-Programmer.html 
) that works with AVRDude, AVRPROG and other software compatible with 
AVR910. As I say in my writeup all credit to Klaus and the team that 
developed this faster programmer.

Klaus shows some performance numbers here: 
http://www.klaus-leidinger.de/mp/Mikrocontroller/AVR-Prog/AVR-Programmer.html#avrdude. 
The latest AVRProg automatically adjusts itself to higher baud rates 
than 19,200.

Mike
http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/Projects/

So I purchased "The Cable AVR" and what a cable it is... finding out after
plugging in the damn thing that it doesn't have a STK200 interface connector
so my board power supply went straight where that damn cable was going - To
hell if it doesn't get going soon

After researching the damn thing I find that I need to make an interface
board that can interface between the industry standard STK200 and PRLLC's
own system so I cut up the 10 pin connector and rewire the damn thing while
I'm swearing and almost slitting my wrist in agony....

After having spend about an hour making the new haywire board look as nice
as it gets I plug it in again, having installed the drivers before I plug it
in to the USB plug ... windows wont recognize the driver ... Surprise
Surprise... I spend another hour trying a lot of things ending up with a
solution that works... or so I thourght

Now "The Cable AVR" works sometimes ... literally ... 

I'm through with second hand junk that never works lets start a union
against second hand shit and inferior tools I'm not only speaking about
software tools but also those damn cheap screwdrivers that break when you
screw a screw into a hard surface... I'm telling you I'm on a postal rampage
and ready to strike down hard on anything not working these next few days 

Now I know what PMS feels like! 

Sorry to keep the thread going I'm just so pissed off :/

Regards
Lasse Madsen

> Sorry to keep the thread going I'm just so pissed off :/
> 
> Regards
> Lasse Madsen 
> 
> 

Welcome to embedded development.

I too had wondrous expectations when I started way too long ago. Pay good money, 
get reliable tools, chips always worked as in the data sheet.  Reality was a bit 
different...

1. Tools ( including very expensive ones ) were often full of bugs. Support is 
often sketchy and usually starts at denial & then moves forward once you spend 
all the time isolating and identifying the bug for them...

2. IC's have bugs & the manufacturer states that they don't. Well, until enough 
people speak up about the bug & it can't be hidden any more.

3. Design is easy, purchasing parts & actually getting them delivered to <your> 
address is tricky.

1st law of freight - If the job is really really urgent and you need parts for a 
long weekends work then if you order them by overnight airfreight pixies will 
kidnap them & have them sent to the other side of the country. Alternatively the 
courier company will leave the box sitting on the floor at your end and swear 
blind that they didn't make the flight.  Probability of this occurring is 
directly proportional to the clients capacity to yell and grumble when the job 
is late.

4. Accountants will always force engineering to deliver at half the cost. Sales 
will always force engineering to deliver in half the time. Bugs and other 
nonsense will force engineering to deliver at twice the cost and twice the time. 
Bosses don't care either way It' will always be your fault anyway ;-)

5. Age makes landscaping or gardening look like an attractive career option.

Have a good one ;-)

Don

Hi Don,

I can agree on all counts!

In my next life I want to be a handy man that only sweeps the walkway the
reason being that even if a tornado had been raging war on the side walk I
would always know, that when the clock goes 16:00 I'm out of there in an
instant and people can complaint all they way then I slap the "I'm a state
employee" in their face and they accept the fact that no matter how much the
scream its hopeless :-D

Regards
Lasse

-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Don Ingram
Sent: 1. september 2005 02:04
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] I hate my new tools too!


> Sorry to keep the thread going I'm just so pissed off :/
> 
> Regards
> Lasse Madsen 
> 
> 

Welcome to embedded development.

I too had wondrous expectations when I started way too long ago. Pay good
money, 
get reliable tools, chips always worked as in the data sheet.  Reality was a
bit 
different...

1. Tools ( including very expensive ones ) were often full of bugs. Support
is 
often sketchy and usually starts at denial & then moves forward once you
spend 
all the time isolating and identifying the bug for them...

2. IC's have bugs & the manufacturer states that they don't. Well, until
enough 
people speak up about the bug & it can't be hidden any more.

3. Design is easy, purchasing parts & actually getting them delivered to
<your> 
address is tricky.

1st law of freight - If the job is really really urgent and you need parts
for a 
long weekends work then if you order them by overnight airfreight pixies
will 
kidnap them & have them sent to the other side of the country. Alternatively
the 
courier company will leave the box sitting on the floor at your end and
swear 
blind that they didn't make the flight.  Probability of this occurring is 
directly proportional to the clients capacity to yell and grumble when the
job 
is late.

4. Accountants will always force engineering to deliver at half the cost.
Sales 
will always force engineering to deliver in half the time. Bugs and other 
nonsense will force engineering to deliver at twice the cost and twice the
time. 
Bosses don't care either way It' will always be your fault anyway ;-)

5. Age makes landscaping or gardening look like an attractive career option.

Have a good one ;-)

Don



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 21:14 +0200, Lasse Madsen wrote:
> So I purchased "The Cable AVR" and what a cable it is... finding out
> after plugging in the damn thing that it doesn't have a STK200
> interface connector so my board power supply went straight where that
> damn cable was going - To hell if it doesn't get going soon

   Did the advertisement SAY it had an STK-200 compatible interface?

> After researching the damn thing I find that I need to make an
> interface board that can interface between the industry standard
> STK200 and PRLLC's own system 

   Uhm, I hate to have to tell you this, but there is no such thing as
an "industry standard" stk-200 interface.  STK is a strictly proprietary
Atmel interface.

> so I cut up the 10 pin connector and rewire the damn thing while
> I'm swearing and almost slitting my wrist in agony....
> After having spend about an hour making the new haywire board look as
> nice as it gets I plug it in again, having installed the drivers
> before I plug it in to the USB plug ... windows wont recognize the
> driver ... Surprise Surprise... I spend another hour trying a lot of
> things ending up with a solution that works... or so I thourght
> Now "The Cable AVR" works sometimes ... literally ... 

   That sounds like it could be a problem with the USB itself...most
probably in the software the cable maker provided, possibly (though much
less likely) in the USB drivers on your system.

> I'm through with second hand junk that never works lets start a union
> against second hand shit and inferior tools I'm not only speaking
> about software tools but also those damn cheap screwdrivers that break
> when you screw a screw into a hard surface... I'm telling you I'm on a
> postal rampage and ready to strike down hard on anything not working
> these next few days 

   Nothing in herently wrong with second hand products.  One must talke
care to purcahse products of known value, from reputable seellers, but
that has always been a problem.  It is a human nature issue,
unfortunately.

> Now I know what PMS feels like! 


  Somehow, I doubt it.  And I doubt that any of our female compatriots
woudl agree with that assertion, either.

> Sorry to keep the thread going I'm just so pissed off :/

   This I can relate to.  *grin*  Good luck.


tom