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2006-08-31 by magzky02
i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how to implement this? thanks in advance mago
2006-08-31 by Ralph Hilton
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:25:44 -0000 you wrote: > >i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a >project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query >and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to >send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its >firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how >to implement this? > >thanks in advance > >mago It should be possible to use a bootloader. There is CVAVR code on http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html and ICCAVR code on http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html The main Atmel site also has application notes with examples. -- Ralph Hilton http://www.ralphhilton.org C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
2006-08-31 by Reza Naima
I've written a simple bootloader as well : http://reza.net/avr/ There are a lot of options. Easiest is to use a tiny MCU to handle the RF IO and to relay the data to the main MCU via the tx/rx pins and some other IO to force the bootloader to come up (so you can recover from a failed flash). reza Ralph Hilton wrote:
> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:25:44 -0000 you wrote: > > > > >i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a > >project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query > >and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to > >send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its > >firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how > >to implement this? > > > >thanks in advance > > > >mago > > It should be possible to use a bootloader. There is CVAVR code on > http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html > <http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html> > and ICCAVR code on > http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html > <http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html> > The main Atmel site also has application notes with examples. > -- > Ralph Hilton > http://www.ralphhilton.org <http://www.ralphhilton.org> > C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org <http://www.cmeter.org> > FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net <http://www.fzaoint.net> > >
2006-08-31 by mago Umandam
thats great ralf..
may i ask the nature of the firmware update.. can i just send my new code placing the char '<' to indicate the end of data?
Ralph Hilton <ralph@ralphhilton.org> wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:25:44 -0000 you wrote:
>
>i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a
>project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query
>and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to
>send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its
>firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how
>to implement this?
>
>thanks in advance
>
>mago
It should be possible to use a bootloader. There is CVAVR code on
http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html
and ICCAVR code on
http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html
The main Atmel site also has application notes with examples.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-08-31 by Ralph Hilton
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:07:07 -0700 (PDT) you wrote: >thats great ralf.. > >may i ask the nature of the firmware update.. can i just send my new code placing the char '<' to indicate the end of data? No, the data is sent page by page with a checksum. There are windows programs on the 2 sites for sending the data. >Ralph Hilton <ralph@ralphhilton.org> wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:25:44 -0000 you wrote: > > > > >i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a > >project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query > >and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to > >send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its > >firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how > >to implement this? > > > >thanks in advance > > > >mago > > It should be possible to use a bootloader. There is CVAVR code on > http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html > and ICCAVR code on > http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html > The main Atmel site also has application notes with examples. > -- > Ralph Hilton > http://www.ralphhilton.org > C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org > FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Ralph Hilton http://www.ralphhilton.org C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
2006-08-31 by mago Umandam
dear ralph
yeah i've seen that program...i will play around with this and integrate with my project.. this is really a great help..it did the challenging part of the project..:)
thank you
mago
Ralph Hilton <ralph@ralphhilton.org> wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:07:07 -0700 (PDT) you wrote:
>thats great ralf..
>
>may i ask the nature of the firmware update.. can i just send my new code placing the char '<' to indicate the end of data?
No, the data is sent page by page with a checksum. There are windows programs on the 2
sites for sending the data.
>Ralph Hilton <ralph@ralphhilton.org> wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:25:44 -0000 you wrote:
>
> >
> >i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a
> >project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query
> >and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to
> >send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its
> >firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how
> >to implement this?
> >
> >thanks in advance
> >
> >mago
>
> It should be possible to use a bootloader. There is CVAVR code on
> http://www.cmeter.org/CVmegaload/index.html
> and ICCAVR code on
> http://www.microsyl.com/megaload/megaload.html
> The main Atmel site also has application notes with examples.
> --
> Ralph Hilton
> http://www.ralphhilton.org
> C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
> FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-08-31 by David VanHorn
On 8/31/06, Dennis Clark <dlc@frii.com> wrote: > > You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme. > Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that > your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be > put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I > recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it! I was about to suggest this, but you beat me to it. In general, the part that does the firmware update should be in the bootloader section, and protected so that it can't be erased. The general philosophy is that no matter what, the part that does the firmware load (and radio management in your case) can't be vulnerable. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-08-31 by Zack Widup
I figure if we could completely reprogram the Galileo spacecraft as it left our solar system, then we could reprogram anything from a distance. :-) Zack
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Dennis Clark wrote: > You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme. > Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that > your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be > put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I > recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it! > > DLC >
2006-08-31 by mago Umandam
awww... you guys scared me huh
im thinking it may cause problem in the future...
i'll need a senior engineer beside me to study this...
thanks you guys for comments and suggestions
mago
David VanHorn <microbrix@gmail.com> wrote: On 8/31/06, Dennis Clark <dlc@frii.com> wrote:
>
> You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme.
> Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that
> your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be
> put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I
> recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it!
I was about to suggest this, but you beat me to it.
In general, the part that does the firmware update should be in the
bootloader section, and protected so that it can't be erased. The general
philosophy is that no matter what, the part that does the firmware load (and
radio management in your case) can't be vulnerable.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-08-31 by Dennis Clark
You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme. Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it! DLC magzky02 wrote: > i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a > project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query > and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to > send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its > firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how > to implement this? > > thanks in advance > > mago > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- --------------------------------------- Dennis Clark TTT Enterprises ---------------------------------------
2006-08-31 by Dennis Clark
Oh yeah, And you want to talk about _paranoid_ download protocols? :) DLC Zack Widup wrote: > I figure if we could completely reprogram the Galileo spacecraft as it > left our solar system, then we could reprogram anything from a distance. > :-) > > Zack > > On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Dennis Clark wrote: > > >>You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme. >> Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that >>your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be >>put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I >>recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it! >> >>DLC >> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- --------------------------------------- Dennis Clark TTT Enterprises ---------------------------------------
2006-08-31 by Dennis Clark
Let me give you some pointers. Having done this before on PICs. 1) Your bootloader and basic network control need to be in write protected memory and need to be the first thing that is touched upon reset. 2) Set a flag in non-volatile memory denoting whether a good or bad firmware image is in FLASH. If good, proceed to code, if bad, go into code download mode. 3) CRC your download. If it is a very long one, CRC each packet and use an ACK/NAK to re-transmit. If the download is only 30K or so, just CRC the entire download and check the CRC at the end of the transmission. 4) ACK/NAK each packet to signal reception. Kill your downloader push code so that it can set up for a new transmission if a NAK occurs. The above is a reasonably paranoid protocol, and it works quite well. For TRUE paranoia, you can sequentialize the packets so that you can re-transmit missed packets. have fun, DLC mago Umandam wrote: > awww... you guys scared me huh > im thinking it may cause problem in the future... > i'll need a senior engineer beside me to study this... > thanks you guys for comments and suggestions > > mago > > > David VanHorn <microbrix@gmail.com> wrote: On 8/31/06, Dennis Clark <dlc@frii.com> wrote: > > > > You'd better use a very robust error detection/correction packet scheme. > > Wireless is inherently unreliable. Also, you'll need to be sure that > > your device can deal with a corrupted download and still be able to be > > put into "update" mode. There is no reason it can't be done, but I > > recommend a very paranoid protocol to handle it! > > I was about to suggest this, but you beat me to it. > > In general, the part that does the firmware update should be in the > bootloader section, and protected so that it can't be erased. The general > philosophy is that no matter what, the part that does the firmware load (and > radio management in your case) can't be vulnerable. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- --------------------------------------- Dennis Clark TTT Enterprises ---------------------------------------
2006-09-01 by stevech11
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "magzky02" <magzky02@...> wrote: > > > i wonder if firmware can be updated via wireless connection..i have a > project that is connected to a rf module..it continously waits query > and give its status..since these units are placed remotely...i want to > send firmware updates via wireless too...the mega32 will update its > firmware after receiving firmware updates...has anyone has idea on how > to implement this? > > thanks in advance > > mago > I have done this using a bootloader designed to be launched remotely by special serial port data to the application, plus a watchdog. Wireless that I've used is (1) WiFi and Lantronix WiPort module; (2) WiFi and Moxa NPort end-item; (3) MaxStream/Digi XBee - a pair, one at the AVR and one connected to an on-site PC/server. All of these rely on infrastructure on the premesis. Using public infrastructure like cellular data is a problem and hopefully you don't need that. I contributed BLIPS via avrfreaks.net in the Projects section. It can bootload via IP on wireless or ethernet as well as Serial lines.