AVR-Chat

Is anyone on this list using, or rather paying to be a beta tester for, 
AutoTrax EDA?

I've been using CircuitMaker and TraxMaker for the past several years 
with no trouble to speak of but Altium (ProTel) has now bought the 
software and decided not to support it any longer a couple of years 
ago.  I'm investigating other packages that are load and go.  Autotrax 
seemed to be a very good buy but there seem to be an awful lot of users 
whose systems crash, boards go away when reloaded, and other problems 
indicative of serious problems.

Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the 
demo.

Does anyone have other suggestions in the < $1,500.00 or so package 
range?  The CM/TM package can also do analog/digital/mixed signal 
simulations as well as auto routing, but I'm too much of a control freak 
to worry about auto routing too terribly much.

Any shared experiences would be appreciated.


REB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 05:57 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

>r
>
>Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
>demo.

<---I've been using Eagle for years and absolutely love it. I find it 
very intuitive

Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

Olddosorcad, absolutly nothing better out there.  There is actually a
yahoo group with the name 'olddosorcad' you can look up if you want
more info.

On 9/15/06, Roy E. Burrage <RBurrage@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Is anyone on this list using, or rather paying to be a beta tester for,
> AutoTrax EDA?
>
> I've been using CircuitMaker and TraxMaker for the past several years
> with no trouble to speak of but Altium (ProTel) has now bought the
> software and decided not to support it any longer a couple of years
> ago.  I'm investigating other packages that are load and go.  Autotrax
> seemed to be a very good buy but there seem to be an awful lot of users
> whose systems crash, boards go away when reloaded, and other problems
> indicative of serious problems.
>
> Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
> demo.
>
> Does anyone have other suggestions in the < $1,500.00 or so package
> range?  The CM/TM package can also do analog/digital/mixed signal
> simulations as well as auto routing, but I'm too much of a control freak
> to worry about auto routing too terribly much.
>
> Any shared experiences would be appreciated.
>
>
> REB
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

At 10:57 AM 16/09/2006, you wrote:
>I've been using CircuitMaker and TraxMaker for the past several years
>with no trouble to speak of but Altium (ProTel) has now bought the
>software and decided not to support it any longer a couple of years
>ago.

I'm confused, I thought it was the other way around that
Altium (Protel) sold the code to the old software and
a new version was born as Circuitmaker. What stops you using
Circuitmaker? Did you purchase it or is it a new package that
you are after? Of course you can still download Autotrax 1.61
for nothing from Altium site (well hidden lately).


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

I gave Eagle several evenings. It was just too user unfriendly for me, given
I would use it infrequently and forget the 10e99 nuances that it has.

 

For quickies, I like ExpressPCB. Limited but you can learn it in a half
hour.

 

  _____  

From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ken Arck
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:19 PM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] PC Board software

 

At 05:57 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:

>r
>
>Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
>demo.

<---I've been using Eagle for years and absolutely love it. I find it 
very intuitive

Ken
----------------------------------------------------------
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories.
http://www.ah6le. <http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html>
net/arcom/index.html
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp. <http://www.irlp.net> net

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Ken.  It appears that there have been some changes since I looked 
at it last, which was quite some time ago.  And this brings up some 
questions:

1.  Are symbols only available in ISO standard or are ANSI libraries 
also available?

2.  I see a lot of export and import file formats.  Occasionally I am 
required to provide manufacturing drawings to my customer, original 
files.  To date they have all been able to use Protel compatible files.  
Can I do this with Eagle?  It isn't readily evident from the manual.

3.  I see they have a standard interface to Beige Bag spice simulator, 
which is something else I had looked at.  Have you used this?  Being 
primarily an analog person, forced into these microcontroller thingies 
and computers in general by customers, I still do a lot of analog work 
and the simulator generates typical waveforms for troubleshooting 
instructions if nothing else.

4.  I see a DXF to Eagle conversion utility in the user files.  I have 
several boards that date back to AutoCAD days.  Have you used this for 
any work and does it perform fairly well?

5.  Do you use the file export utility very much?  How is the resolution 
of the conversion output?

Thanks for the feedback.


REB



Ken Arck wrote:

>At 05:57 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>r
>>
>>Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
>>demo.
>>    
>>
>
><---I've been using Eagle for years and absolutely love it. I find it 
>very intuitive
>
>Ken
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>President and CTO - Arcom Communications
>Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories.
>http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
>Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
>we offer complete repeater packages!
>AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
>http://www.irlp.net
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As I understand the history, CircuitMaker was a schematic capture and 
circuit simulation program designed for the Mac.  Protel designed 
Autotrax for DOS and ultimately sold this to Matt and company...they 
renamed it TraxMaker and brought it into the world of Windows when they 
did likewise for their CircuitMaker product.  I bought the package back 
in '97 or '98 and then they sold their company to Protel, now Altium, in 
about 2001.  Perhaps Jim Wagner can assist here as I believe he was also 
a user.

I'm still using CircuitMaker but it's a Win95 program and operates as 
such.  Some of the newer hardware isn't supported (scroll mouse 
specifically) and the package isn't supported any longer, which might 
not be a bad thing when all the screaming's done.  It works okay for now 
within its limitations, I'm just looking to the future as it does some 
funny things from time to time under WinXP that I don't remember under 
Win 95 and 98.  I suspect this is a result of their original Mac to 
Windows port.

It's too bad when a big guy buys a little guy just to make the product 
go Tango Uniform.  This was a really nice package for less than a 
kilobuck US.  Oh well, if you can't beat 'em buy 'em.


REB


John Samperi wrote:

>At 10:57 AM 16/09/2006, you wrote:
>  
>
>>I've been using CircuitMaker and TraxMaker for the past several years
>>with no trouble to speak of but Altium (ProTel) has now bought the
>>software and decided not to support it any longer a couple of years
>>ago.
>>    
>>
>
>I'm confused, I thought it was the other way around that
>Altium (Protel) sold the code to the old software and
>a new version was born as Circuitmaker. What stops you using
>Circuitmaker? Did you purchase it or is it a new package that
>you are after? Of course you can still download Autotrax 1.61
>for nothing from Altium site (well hidden lately).
>
>
>Regards
>
>John Samperi
>
>********************************************************
>Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
>11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
>Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
>Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
>Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
>*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
>********************************************************
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Problem there is you're tied to only one board house, isn't it?  I use a 
variety and also do contract work that requires my customer use their 
own houses too.

Appreciate the input, though.


REB

stevech wrote:

>I gave Eagle several evenings. It was just too user unfriendly for me, given
>I would use it infrequently and forget the 10e99 nuances that it has.
>
> 
>
>For quickies, I like ExpressPCB. Limited but you can learn it in a half
>hour.
>
> 
>
>  _____  
>
>From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>Of Ken Arck
>Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:19 PM
>To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] PC Board software
>
> 
>
>At 05:57 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>r
>>
>>Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
>>demo.
>>    
>>
>
><---I've been using Eagle for years and absolutely love it. I find it 
>very intuitive
>
>Ken
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, true. But for hobby stuff and one-of-a-kinds, I don't think it
matters.

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Roy E. Burrage" <RBurrage@...> wrote:
>
> Problem there is you're tied to only one board house, isn't it?  I
use a 
> variety and also do contract work that requires my customer use their 
> own houses too.
> 
> Appreciate the input, though.
> 
> 
> REB
> 
> stevech wrote:
> 
> >I gave Eagle several evenings. It was just too user unfriendly for
me, given
> >I would use it infrequently and forget the 10e99 nuances that it has.
> >
> > 
> >
> >For quickies, I like ExpressPCB. Limited but you can learn it in a half
> >hour.
> >
> > 
> >
> >  _____  
> >
> >From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> >Of Ken Arck
> >Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:19 PM
> >To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] PC Board software
> >
> > 
> >
> >At 05:57 PM 9/15/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>r
> >>
> >>Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking
at the

> >>demo.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> ><---I've been using Eagle for years and absolutely love it. I find it 
> >very intuitive
> >
> >Ken
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed

At 02:07 PM 16/09/2006, you wrote:
>I'm still using CircuitMaker but it's a Win95 program

Wow...ultramodern stuff !! :-D I have Autotrax for DOS
when a 10MHz machine was fast!! It now works wonderfully
well under Win XP Pro at 1.4GHz. It does all that I need
to do and much, much more (like up to 4 layers).

Have you looked up Circuitmaker's website? I was looking
at purchasing it a while ago as it will import my old
files from Autotrax / Easytrax from what I understand.

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Roy E. Burrage" <RBurrage@bellsouth.net>
To: "AVR-Chat Group" <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:57 AM
Subject: [AVR-Chat] PC Board software


> Is anyone on this list using, or rather paying to be a beta tester for,
> AutoTrax EDA?
>
> I've been using CircuitMaker and TraxMaker for the past several years
> with no trouble to speak of but Altium (ProTel) has now bought the
> software and decided not to support it any longer a couple of years
> ago.  I'm investigating other packages that are load and go.  Autotrax
> seemed to be a very good buy but there seem to be an awful lot of users
> whose systems crash, boards go away when reloaded, and other problems
> indicative of serious problems.
>
> Eagle looks to be too much of a learning curve just from looking at the
> demo.
>
> Does anyone have other suggestions in the < $1,500.00 or so package
> range?  The CM/TM package can also do analog/digital/mixed signal
> simulations as well as auto routing, but I'm too much of a control freak
> to worry about auto routing too terribly much.

Easy-PC is very good, I used it for years. I now use Pulsonix, but it starts 
at about $2000. Both are very easy to use and support is excellent.

http://www.numberone.com

http://www.pulsonix.com

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
leon.heller@bulldoghome.com
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Roy: 
> Does anyone have other suggestions in the < $1,500.00 or so package
> range?  The CM/TM package can also do analog/digital/mixed signal
> simulations as well as auto routing, but I'm too much of a control
> freak to worry about auto routing too terribly much.
> 
> Any shared experiences would be appreciated.
I've been using Labcenter Electronics' Proteus software for years. 
The schematic, simulation and PCB sides are all easy to use, powerful 
and flexible. It simulates AVRs, LCDs and many other 'real' devices.
The technical support is also excellent.
http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index_uk.htm



Richard
---
"Sve je bilo tako tiho a nemirno..."
   http://www.musicvangogh.com/

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 00:13:08 -0400 you wrote:

I tried Eagle and found it confusingly unintuitive.

ExpressPCB is very easy to use but, as you say, one is tied to a rather expensive
board manufacturer.

The closest I've found to ExpressPCB  in terms of ease of use is Target3001 from 
http://www.ibfriedrich.com/english/index.htm . Its also quite reasonably priced. 
For manufacture I recently got some boards made up by
http://www.pcbonline.org/
10 boards 16x10cm for $140 including shipping !

>Problem there is you're tied to only one board house, isn't it?  I use a 
>variety and also do contract work that requires my customer use their 
>own houses too.
>
>Appreciate the input, though.
>
>
>REB
>
>stevech wrote:
>
>>I gave Eagle several evenings. It was just too user unfriendly for me, given
>>I would use it infrequently and forget the 10e99 nuances that it has.
>>
>> 
>>
>>For quickies, I like ExpressPCB. Limited but you can learn it in a half
>>hour.
>>

--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net

Altium says it's no longer supported at the web site and recommends 
their other products.

Easytrax!  That was the original name.  I used that too for a while as a 
shareware program, or was it freeware?  I think I had one of those high 
end 386DX-40 machines though.  Started out with AutoCAD on a 4.77MHz 
machine with a 10MB hard disk, 512KB ram, COLOR monitor...180 cps 
printer...we were walking in high cotton back in those days.  I always 
thought I had "made it" when I could afford to buy my own electric 
eraser...which I still have...then had to switch over to CAD systems due 
to customer demands within a couple of months.  That old electric eraser 
does a fine job polishing watch crystals and edge contacts.    :-D

I've never had a problem with customers being able to suck my drawings 
into their Protel systems so you're probably okay there.  All you'll 
have to do is find someone with Protel and ask them to convert to 
another format if need be.

I jumped on AutoTrax EDA thinking it was akin to the AutoTrax 
program...only to find that for a mere $500 investment I could become a 
beta tester and have all my work product disappear into the galactic bit 
bucket from time to time.  Sure glad I decided to lurk on their 
discussion list for several months before making that leap.  He's 
dropped the price to 200 bucks now, but that's still expensive to be a 
beta tester when your income depends on what you have to provide to a 
customer.


REB


John Samperi wrote:

>At 02:07 PM 16/09/2006, you wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm still using CircuitMaker but it's a Win95 program
>>    
>>
>
>Wow...ultramodern stuff !! :-D I have Autotrax for DOS
>when a 10MHz machine was fast!! It now works wonderfully
>well under Win XP Pro at 1.4GHz. It does all that I need
>to do and much, much more (like up to 4 layers).
>
>Have you looked up Circuitmaker's website? I was looking
>at purchasing it a while ago as it will import my old
>files from Autotrax / Easytrax from what I understand.
>
>Regards
>
>John Samperi
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Ralph and Richard.  Those are both in the right price range.  
I'll look at the demos.

For boards, though, I'm going to have to stay a bit closer to home.  I 
use AP Circuits for quick turn and Advanced Circuits for higher 
quantities when time allows and I need niceties like solder mask and 
screen prints.  I try others from time to time, but just to keep 
everyone honest.


REB


Ralph Hilton wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 00:13:08 -0400 you wrote:
>
>I tried Eagle and found it confusingly unintuitive.
>
>ExpressPCB is very easy to use but, as you say, one is tied to a rather expensive
>board manufacturer.
>
>The closest I've found to ExpressPCB  in terms of ease of use is Target3001 from 
>http://www.ibfriedrich.com/english/index.htm . Its also quite reasonably priced. 
>For manufacture I recently got some boards made up by
>http://www.pcbonline.org/
>10 boards 16x10cm for $140 including shipping !
>
>  
>
>>Problem there is you're tied to only one board house, isn't it?  I use a 
>>variety and also do contract work that requires my customer use their 
>>own houses too.
>>
>>Appreciate the input, though.
>>
>>
>>REB
>>
>  
>