Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

From: "primatetom2003" <baltimorescience@...>

> perhaps some people here could be helpful with this.
> to what extent is evolver midi controllable?

midi notes
velocity
aftertouch
pitchbend
some controllers
sysex.

> what i mean is how many simultaneous parameters can be controlled
> with midi?

Not that many, unless you get into SysEx.
Then again, how many parameters do you want to automate with MIDI?

> i'd like to try using a controller like the midiman surface one,
> which is quite full featured.
> any suggestions?

yeah. pick a control surface that actually exists.
:-)
surface one appears to be vapourware..
Please tell me if I'm wrong, however..... I was really looking forward to
that, when they started advertising it all those years ago.

> from what i gather from all these excited individuals,this sounds
> like a great synth.

Yep. It's amazing.

> however being an analog fan who's used to many alternative type
> controllers (theremins, ribbons etc.), i don't want to simply play
> the evolver with a keyboard or simply play with the sequencer.
> the eight knobs and matrix doesn't sound appetizing either (coming as
> i said from a modular analog type point of view.)

Control surfaces are good and I imagine that using one with evolver would be
really good.

Then again I dont think that a control surface is that necessary...
the evolver is *not* the same as any other synth you own... It's a monosynth
with a stereo audio path. It's a analog and digital hybrid with feedback
system built in. as a resuly it can do all sorts of strange organic and
inorganic sounds.

So even with just a normal MIDI keyboard playing it when the sequencer is
running,  It can get very interesting and expressive. It has 3 envelopes and
4 LFO's and a 16x4 sequencer...  it responds to velocity, aftertouch, etc
and you can store patches with it.

> if i could use an outside controller to do all the tweaks twists and
> turns that i like, that's a different story.
>
yeah there's a set of PC1600 patches around the place. Though I haven't used
it  (not wanting to risk losing my existing PC1600 presets..)


julian

--
http://bleepin.com

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:27:28 +1000, "mr julian"
<jujulilianan@...> wrote:

>Then again, how many parameters do you want to automate with MIDI?

All of 'em <g> 
It's quite common thesedays...

Paul
---
Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk
          Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com

If you control the evolver through sysex can you tweak multiple parameters 
simultaneously?  Or would it work like tweaking the knobs on the evolver 
where only one parameter can be active at a time?

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "pela_gius" <pela_gius@h...> 
wrote:
> If you control the evolver through sysex can you tweak multiple 
parameters 
> simultaneously?  Or would it work like tweaking the knobs on the 
evolver 
> where only one parameter can be active at a time?

Yes, you can.
It's not exactly simultaneous because the parameter changes are send 
one after another but if you move two or more sliders (i tested it 
with a Kenton control freak) it works perfect.

A little comment about control surfaces with the Evolver:
If you want to make things more easy you'll have to find a controll 
surface wich has enough knobs and sliders (and can do sysex!)to cover 
all the parameters you want to change.
I was testing with the Kenton and found that you still have to switch 
a lot of times (16 sliders per program) to find the right parameter.
Compared to that the Evolvers own knobs are much easier to navigate.
(also because the Evolver knobs changes the display to it's parameter 
so you see what you're doing)


Grtz. Ronald.

From: "Ronald" <info@...>

> Yes, you can.
> It's not exactly simultaneous because the parameter changes are send
> one after another but if you move two or more sliders (i tested it
> with a Kenton control freak) it works perfect.
>
Actually.. this is maybe making it sound worse than it really is...
MIDI is a serial interface, so only one MIDI *message* (SysEx or otherwise)
can be transmitted at a time in any case.

Bottom line is, you can slide two faders at once, and have both Evolver
paramers change as you do that.. because the act of sliding a single fader
sends a stream of messages from the start value of the fader to the end
value of the fader. The act of sliding two faders does the same thing,
except there are now two streams of fader SysEx going down the MIDI cable.

> A little comment about control surfaces with the Evolver:
> If you want to make things more easy you'll have to find a controll
> surface wich has enough knobs and sliders (and can do sysex!)to cover
> all the parameters you want to change.
> I was testing with the Kenton and found that you still have to switch
> a lot of times (16 sliders per program) to find the right parameter.
> Compared to that the Evolvers own knobs are much easier to navigate.
> (also because the Evolver knobs changes the display to it's parameter
> so you see what you're doing)
>
aaah finally!!! someone who agrees with me about control surfaces!!!!
:-)

to program the 250-odd parameters in the evolver using any commercially
available programming hardware device, you need to setup pages of parameters
on the programming device!! if you are going to do that, you may as well be
switching pages on the evolver front panel!!

at least programming on the evolver, you have
1) writing on the panel to show which page is which.
2) rotary encoders tied *into* the synth engine that increment a parameter
from where it was originally (not just jumping to whatever previous slider
position you start from as soon as you go to make a change)
3) display confirmation of what you are doing.

Now an editor/librarian in a PC is another issue..... if you can keep track
of every parameter in the evolver, and edit from there on the screen. But
unfortunately if you want a combined editor/librarian, you're stuck with
sounddiver(blech) for now, I think. And also, this only really works if a
computer is the centre of your sequencing environment. and then, you are
stuck with only having a mouse to edit parameters with = only adjust one
parameter at a time.



Now - onto this parameter automation thing I promised!!!!

Lately, I've started to like setting up patches and finding a way to play
them, depending on the feature of the patch that I want to highlight in a
particular piece of music. In that instance, having *all* parameters
available is unnecessary, and in fact a bit of a pain.

What I like, is having a couple of MIDI controllers assignable to whatever
parameters I feel are important for that particular patch (like a waldorf
microwave does!!). That way, you can have a couple of sliders available on a
control surface that will always do *something* relevant to a sound, no
matter what the patch is. And you end up with simple control surface to use,
with no bumbling about trying to find different pages for the 2 or 3
parameters you might want to tweak.


and while I'm here.... PC1600 vs kenton control freak:
I own a PC1600x, my friend owns a control freak studio edition... so I have
a pretty good basis for this comparison....
If I were to buy a hardware control surface now, I would get the control
freak. because it has lots of presets already made up that you can download
for it. And it also has a FREE editor made by kenton for making up presets
for it on your computer... PC1600 has, like I already said, absolutely no
support from peavey.
All that said, the construction of the PC1600 is *way* nicer than the
control freak. The metal is better finished, the sliders are smoother, the
buttons are smoother, and the display is bigger! there's nothing
particularly wrong, or flimsy with the kenton.... it's just not as nice to
touch!



julian

--
http://bleepin.com

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:22:42 +0200, scd <scd@...> wrote:

>4: you are "in touch" with your machine :-)))

Agree with all the points. I just happen to prefer synths that use
more "tweakable" controls such as MIDI CC, Poly Aftertouch etc. Cos
when you have such a synth, you can dump patches into a track as
controllers (as the Pulse can, for example), dump another patch later
on and morph between them. OK, a bit weird and specialised but simply
not possible with sysex. 
I also do a lot of old fashioned step sequencing that involves
directly calling up the appropriate controller for any particular
function. If I have to stop and reprogram each patch when I want to
sequence a particular parameter I usually don't bother and turn to
another synth.

I love the Evolver for its sounds and flexibility but if its controls
sent/responded to CCs etc. I'd be even happier. Just my weird little
perspective, doesn't mean I'm grumbling or anything... 8)

Paul
---
Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk
          Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com

> I love the Evolver for its sounds and flexibility but if its controls
> sent/responded to CCs etc. I'd be even happier. Just my weird little
> perspective, doesn't mean I'm grumbling or anything... 8)

In the evolver's defense, there are more editable parameters than there are MIDI CCs 
available, and the parameter range is sometimes greater than 128 values (like 0 to 
160 in many cases) Perhaps NRPNS would be better. Maybe not.

If you don't mind having a computer doing some translating for you, I'll repeat that 
the Twizzler application included with my Evolver Editor does exactly this: translate 
MIDI CCs into Evolver sysex. Plus, you can save Twizzler 'patches' that change the 
behavior of your control surface. For example, you could have one set that does 
mixing and filtering and another set for distortion and delays, etc...

> to program the 250-odd parameters in the evolver using any commercially
> available programming hardware device, you need to setup pages of 
parameters
> on the programming device!! if you are going to do that, you may as well be
> switching pages on the evolver front panel!!

Why would you want to control all 250 parameters?  For programming, yes of 
course you just use the evolver's great interface.  But for actually playing the 
synth you can't tweak two parameters at the same time on the Evolver.  Hell, 
you can't even access the lowpass & hipass cutoffs from the same row!

I've never used a midi knob controller but I'm leaning towards buying a 
Kenton Control Freak Live so I can do some of these things.  It also seems 
very useful to be able to assign the Control Freak knobs and buttons to send 
combinations of different messages or constrain values within a certain range.

> Lately, I've started to like setting up patches and finding a way to play
> them, depending on the feature of the patch that I want to highlight in a
> particular piece of music. In that instance, having *all* parameters
> available is unnecessary, and in fact a bit of a pain.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, actually playing the synth.  With the 
evolver a control surface would come in handy for this.  It's not a programmer 
but a performance tool.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:10:39 -0000, "Matthew Davidson"
<matthew@...> wrote:

>In the evolver's defense, there are more editable parameters than there are MIDI CCs 
>available, and the parameter range is sometimes greater than 128 values (like 0 to 
>160 in many cases) Perhaps NRPNS would be better. Maybe not.

Nah, NRPNs are shite... Access have the best solution I've seen - when
CCs run out they use Poly aftertouch... works amazingly well.

Paul