Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Hi guys,  There's something i don't really get.  Does anybody 
know why if you have an LFO modulating the Delay time of any of 
the delays it modulates the pitch in strange ways. I don't get the 
connection. Maybe I'm missing some basic law of synthesis or 
something.  Not that I can't use the effect but I'm just not 
undestanding why it happens.

Steve

> Hi guys,  There's something i don't really get.  
> Does anybody know why if you have an LFO modulating
> the Delay time of any of the delays it modulates the
> pitch in strange ways. I don't get the connection. 
> Maybe I'm missing some basic law of synthesis or 
> something. 

or a basic law of delays. think about chorus and
flanging for a minute - these effects are both
acheived by modulating the delay time of a delayed
signal. most delays will exhibit this apparent pitch
modulation when the delay time is changed rapidly. the
"why" part is more than I have time to get into right
now, since I am nearing the end of a break at work.
maybe someone else can jump in here?

cheers,
kevin

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I have come to find one VERY big annoyance about the Evolver.  It's really
not suited for live tweaking.  You can never be changing more than 1
parameter at a time with the knobs.  This is because the first twist of a
new knob doesn't change value, it shows the current value, and thusly steals
the focus.  So if your twisting two knobs,  all that is happening is a very
choppy change of values as they switch from one another to show current
value.  You can't effectively tweak two parameters with the knobs.

A workaround is to use a remote controller and assign CC values, but as we
know, the available CC's are few and far between.

I've checked the manual and I can't seem to find a setting to turn off the
feature I described above.  Is there one?

Thanks,

Robert Krueger

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don´t know why but i love this pitch changes a lot !!!!


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, not known <spectralab1@y...> wrote:

> > Hi guys,  There's something i don't really get.  
> > Does anybody know why if you have an LFO modulating
> > the Delay time of any of the delays it modulates the
> > pitch in strange ways. I don't get the connection. 
> > Maybe I'm missing some basic law of synthesis or 
> > something. 
> 
> or a basic law of delays. think about chorus and
> flanging for a minute - these effects are both
> acheived by modulating the delay time of a delayed
> signal. most delays will exhibit this apparent pitch
> modulation when the delay time is changed rapidly. the
> "why" part is more than I have time to get into right
> now, since I am nearing the end of a break at work.
> maybe someone else can jump in here?
> 
> cheers,
> kevin
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

not sure what you mean here...
when you change the rows you can tweak the selected parameter. Of
course you can only use one after another. If you are quick enough you
can simulate tweaking 2 or more knobs at nearly the same time by
switching forward and backward
A solution would be a controller but evo doesnt support much CC´s

Use excisting modulation assignments like modwheel. If you already got
a controller you can assign pressure, breath and footcontrl aswell

there will maybe updates for more cc´s in the future

phono


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Krueger" <rkr1@t...> wrote:
> I have come to find one VERY big annoyance about the Evolver.  It's
really
> not suited for live tweaking.  You can never be changing more than 1
> parameter at a time with the knobs.  This is because the first twist
of a
> new knob doesn't change value, it shows the current value, and
thusly steals
> the focus.  So if your twisting two knobs,  all that is happening is
a very
> choppy change of values as they switch from one another to show current
> value.  You can't effectively tweak two parameters with the knobs.
> 
> A workaround is to use a remote controller and assign CC values, but
as we
> know, the available CC's are few and far between.
> 
> I've checked the manual and I can't seem to find a setting to turn
off the

> feature I described above.  Is there one?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert Krueger
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

> these effects are both
> acheived by modulating the delay time of a delayed
> signal. most delays will exhibit this apparent pitch
> modulation when the delay time is changed rapidly.


No, I mean huge variations in pitch similar to an LFO modulating 
pitch with the amount set high.  It only seems to do this when I 
assign a Modulator Source as an LFO and the Destination as 
Delay Time.  It doesn't do the wild pitch changes when adjusting 
the delays directly, only when I use Mod Source and Dest.

steve

From: "dhamaryder" <dhamaryder@...>

> Hi guys,  There's something i don't really get.  Does anybody
> know why if you have an LFO modulating the Delay time of any of
> the delays it modulates the pitch in strange ways. I don't get the
> connection. Maybe I'm missing some basic law of synthesis or
> something.  Not that I can't use the effect but I'm just not
> undestanding why it happens.
>
imagine this:
you have an array of samples, and you go through this playing back one after
the other... when you get to then end, you go back to the first sample...
this array is a fixed length, but you can control the speed at which you
move through it in order to change the length of time per cycle....

now imagine:
your delay line has a fixed frequency sine wave stored in it.

now imagine:
as you are playing back through the delay line, you are changing the SPEED
at which you move throutgh the delay line (like for instance with an LFO) so
the frequency of the "sine wave" at the output of the delayline is now
varying as the LFO changes the speed at which it is read back...

You have just imagined the way that the output of the delay line in your
evolver works, and seen, in you mind, the way that the pitch of a static
oscillator gets shifted in a moulated delay line....


Of course, in the delay line, after reading a sample, you also write a new
one back in its place (which is the sum of the output of the delay line and
the current oscillator output position) so you actually have what you are
playing entering the delay line as you play it, as well as older sounds
repeating. but any difference in the speed you are moving through it between
the time a sample is going in, and when it comes out results in the delay
line sample having a different pitch to the original sample.



julian

> > these effects are both
> > acheived by modulating the delay time of a delayed
> > signal. most delays will exhibit this apparent 
> > pitch modulation when the delay time is changed 
> > rapidly.

> No, I mean huge variations in pitch similar to an 
> LFO modulating pitch with the amount set high. It 
> only seems to do this when I assign a Modulator 
> Source as an LFO and the Destination as Delay Time. 


ok, I'll just repeat what I said: "most delays will
exhibit this apparent pitch modulation when the delay
time is changed rapidly"... I really don't know how
else to explain it... try a similar modulation with
any other digital delay that is properly
interpolated*, and you will notice similar behaviour.
it's a standard behaviour for delay lines - applying a
fast or sudden modulation to them will cause these
jumps in the pitch of the signal in the delay line. 

* note: some digital delays are not properly
interpolated, and will only exhibit zippering/clicking
when modulated in this way.

cheers,
kevin



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Yeah i noticed this thing too, and let me tell you it SUCKS!!!

i got mine for live playing and tweak, this is crap!

so how i am supposed to do a cool filter sweep, or a nice lfo 1 and 2 
combo ???





--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Krueger" <rkr1@t...> 
wrote:
> I have come to find one VERY big annoyance about the Evolver.  It's 
really
> not suited for live tweaking.  You can never be changing more than 1
> parameter at a time with the knobs.  This is because the first 
twist of a
> new knob doesn't change value, it shows the current value, and 
thusly steals
> the focus.  So if your twisting two knobs,  all that is happening 
is a very
> choppy change of values as they switch from one another to show 
current
> value.  You can't effectively tweak two parameters with the knobs.
> 
> A workaround is to use a remote controller and assign CC values, 
but as we
> know, the available CC's are few and far between.
> 
> I've checked the manual and I can't seem to find a setting to turn 
off the

> feature I described above.  Is there one?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Robert Krueger
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 5/4/2004

On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 12:32:24AM -0000, Carlos (1b) wrote:
> Yeah i noticed this thing too, and let me tell you it SUCKS!!!
> 
> i got mine for live playing and tweak, this is crap!

Um, what did you expect?

-Miles
-- 
"Though they may have different meanings, the cries of 'Yeeeee-haw!' and
 'Allahu akbar!' are, in spirit, not actually all that different."

On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 12:32:24AM -0000, Carlos (1b) wrote:
> Yeah i noticed this thing too, and let me tell you it SUCKS!!!
> 
> i got mine for live playing and tweak, this is crap!

Um, what did you expect?

-Miles
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Ummmm...  I expected to be able to at least control the various parameters
with a remote controller,  especially parameters that aren't on the same
tweak row.

Does that really sound esoteric???

Thanks for the positive feedback by the way....



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"Robert Krueger" <rkr1@...> writes:
> Ummmm...  I expected to be able to at least control the various parameters
> with a remote controller,  especially parameters that aren't on the same
> tweak row.

You can -- see page 46 in the manual, `System Exclusive Messages -
Program Parameters.'

-Miles
-- 
My spirit felt washed.  With blood.  [Eli Shin, on "The Passion of the Christ"]

What remote controller do you know of that is programmed to understand
Evolver SYSEX so that I can freely control it's parameters in realtime, and
not spend $1000 dollars acquiring it for a simple need?

-----Original Message-----
From: miles@...
[mailto:miles@...] On Behalf Of Miles Bader
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:47 PM
To: Robert Krueger
Cc: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Evolver] Re: Multiple Knob Twiddling

"Robert Krueger" <rkr1@...> writes:
> Ummmm...  I expected to be able to at least control the various parameters
> with a remote controller,  especially parameters that aren't on the same
> tweak row.

You can -- see page 46 in the manual, `System Exclusive Messages -
Program Parameters.'

-Miles
-- 
My spirit felt washed.  With blood.  [Eli Shin, on "The Passion of the
Christ"]


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Robert Krueger (09:05 PM 5/10/2004) wrote:

 >What remote controller do you know of that is programmed to understand
 >Evolver SYSEX so that I can freely control it's parameters in realtime, and
 >not spend $1000 dollars acquiring it for a simple need?

How many params do you _NEED_ to control at once?

The Peavey PC-1600, Encore Slidemate and Knobby are excellent products:

Peavey:
http://www.defectiverecords.com/pc1600/pc1600.html


Encore:
http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_product.html


Those three products have a ton of programmability and will let you work in 
banks of 8 or 16 sliders/knobs at once.

Mark

> 
> How many params do you _NEED_ to control at once?

More than just a few....  


> Those three products have a ton of programmability and will 
> let you work in banks of 8 or 16 sliders/knobs at once.
> 
> Mark


I really shouldn't have to purchase additional hardware, a software update
seems like a simpler, cheaper solution :)

I feel like we've beaten this to death.  So I'm done.  Dave, please add some
assignable CC's.... Pretty please ,

Thanks,

Robert Krueger

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