Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

HI David,

 

I have both and I only use the Vyzor which I think is in a different
league. So my recommendation would be Vysor.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

 

________________________________

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of David
Sent: 01 September 2006 19:25
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Evolver] Which Editor???

 

I just recently purchased a desktop mono Evolver, and was thinking
about buying an editor for it. Which editor is best? The Soundtower,
or the Vyzor? Thanks in advance.

I'm in the same boat as David. I'm a new owner(well I've had it in 
the closet since last xmas) of the desktop MEvo and saw your post. I 
just pulled it out.

Could I ask for a little more detail? You say different league but 
it seems there there are so many MIDI librarians/eds etc out their 
for lots of product now that the only real differnce is the 
interface. Vyzor looks really cool and soundtowar is more old school 
functional looking but...

which is more stable? which has a decent librarian? Anyone with 
commnets on support?

These are the three things that I neeed: no crashes/bugs and an 
intuituve librarian. Im not great at computer mess ups.

THanks
Dan DiNila

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Capon" <acapon@...> 
wrote:
>
> HI David,
> 
>  
> 
> I have both and I only use the Vyzor which I think is in a 
different
> league. So my recommendation would be Vysor.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
>  
> 
> Andy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of David
> Sent: 01 September 2006 19:25
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Evolver] Which Editor???
> 
>  
> 
> I just recently purchased a desktop mono Evolver, and was thinking
> about buying an editor for it. Which editor is best? The 
Soundtower,
> or the Vyzor? Thanks in advance.
>

Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.

-dmn

Hi

I use the sound tower editor which is alright but what in your
opinions makes the Vyzor editor better?

Is there a feature comparison anywhere?

Thanks-







-- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lost_one95340@...> wrote:

>
> Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.
> 
> -dmn
>

Check out the manual.

http://www.vyzor.com/Manuals/Evolver/Vyzor%20Evolver.pdf

Bernie

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "sirsimonjames" 
<sirsimonjames@...> wrote:

>
> Hi
> 
> I use the sound tower editor which is alright but what in your
> opinions makes the Vyzor editor better?
> 
> Is there a feature comparison anywhere?
> 
> Thanks-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lost_one95340@> wrote:
> >
> > Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.
> > 
> > -dmn
> >
>

I have both,

Soundtower stopped working for me on OSX but is still very easy to use.

I am still trying to get to grips with the Vyzor editor... it has a lovely interface but seems a 
little less straight forward than the ST editor... maybe its just me.

-Matt




--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@...> wrote:

>
> Check out the manual.
> 
> http://www.vyzor.com/Manuals/Evolver/Vyzor%20Evolver.pdf
> 
> Bernie
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "sirsimonjames" 
> <sirsimonjames@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > 
> > I use the sound tower editor which is alright but what in your
> > opinions makes the Vyzor editor better?
> > 
> > Is there a feature comparison anywhere?
> > 
> > Thanks-
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lost_one95340@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.
> > > 
> > > -dmn
> > >
> >
>

well, I'm a known soundtower hater, but that's due to dealings with them 
way before the evolver editor came out. I don't own their evolver 
editor, and never will, because I made the decision to have nothing to 
do with them ever again.

Conceptually, the editors are polar opposites.

bottom line is, the soundtower editor WILL let you edit parameters on 
the screen. Problem with soundtower products (IMO) is that they ship 
things unfinished and refuse to actually fix them. And if you ever email 
them with an actual BUG then they'll just ignore you (unless you're on a 
forum, like here, in which case they'll make noises about fixing stuff, 
then continue on with whatever their agenda was)

On the other hand, the company responsible for the Vyzor editor really 
want their system to be absolutely, 100% perfect. As a result, I still 
aren't sure that they've come out of beta testing yet..... after 
announcing their product, complete with screenshots, what, 3 years 
ago??  :-) (Though as a registered vyzoer user, I think it's basically 
finished already... I never even got around to installing the latest 
bugfix cause the previous one was working fine)

The biggest benefit to going vyzor is that it's not just a standalone 
editor, it's also got a VSTi mode (though you need a separate MIDI port 
just for the evolver to do it) - so you can load it up in cubase or 
live, and automate all the parameters on the evolver, like you could a 
softsynth.

Vyzor is also based on MidiQuest, which is a generic patch editor 
program - this is cool in a lot of ways, but caused problems in earlier 
versions of the program, where you had this massive library architecture 
getting in the way when all you wanted to do was grab a patch from the 
synth's memory, tweak it, and save it back in the synth's memory.... but 
the latest couple of versions of the vyzor editor have cut a lot of that 
away.


so, yeah... either will do you, but I'd vote vyzor. mostly because the 
people responsible for coding it actually care about their customers, 
and want a product that's not just a usable tool, but something exciting 
and fun, and maybe inspirational to use, and extending the synth past 
what DSI originally had in mind...... plus the VSTi thing.





sirsimonjames wrote:

>Hi
>
>I use the sound tower editor which is alright but what in your
>opinions makes the Vyzor editor better?
>
>Is there a feature comparison anywhere?
>
>Thanks-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lost_one95340@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.
>>
>>-dmn
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>

Hey thanks for the responses.

To be honest I don't find the ST editor that easy to use and the idea
of having a Evolver interface as a VST plugin is pretty cool.

I will check out the instruction manual and do some more research. 

Again thanks for the responses.

Simon




--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, mr julian <jujulilianan@...> wrote:
>
> well, I'm a known soundtower hater, but that's due to dealings with
them 
> way before the evolver editor came out. I don't own their evolver 
> editor, and never will, because I made the decision to have nothing to 
> do with them ever again.
> 
> Conceptually, the editors are polar opposites.
> 
> bottom line is, the soundtower editor WILL let you edit parameters on 
> the screen. Problem with soundtower products (IMO) is that they ship 
> things unfinished and refuse to actually fix them. And if you ever
email 
> them with an actual BUG then they'll just ignore you (unless you're
on a 
> forum, like here, in which case they'll make noises about fixing stuff, 
> then continue on with whatever their agenda was)
> 
> On the other hand, the company responsible for the Vyzor editor really 
> want their system to be absolutely, 100% perfect. As a result, I still 
> aren't sure that they've come out of beta testing yet..... after 
> announcing their product, complete with screenshots, what, 3 years 
> ago??  :-) (Though as a registered vyzoer user, I think it's basically 
> finished already... I never even got around to installing the latest 
> bugfix cause the previous one was working fine)
> 
> The biggest benefit to going vyzor is that it's not just a standalone 
> editor, it's also got a VSTi mode (though you need a separate MIDI port 
> just for the evolver to do it) - so you can load it up in cubase or 
> live, and automate all the parameters on the evolver, like you could a 
> softsynth.
> 
> Vyzor is also based on MidiQuest, which is a generic patch editor 
> program - this is cool in a lot of ways, but caused problems in earlier 
> versions of the program, where you had this massive library
architecture 
> getting in the way when all you wanted to do was grab a patch from the 
> synth's memory, tweak it, and save it back in the synth's memory....
but 
> the latest couple of versions of the vyzor editor have cut a lot of
that 
> away.
> 
> 
> so, yeah... either will do you, but I'd vote vyzor. mostly because the 
> people responsible for coding it actually care about their customers, 
> and want a product that's not just a usable tool, but something
exciting 

> and fun, and maybe inspirational to use, and extending the synth past 
> what DSI originally had in mind...... plus the VSTi thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sirsimonjames wrote:
> 
> >Hi
> >
> >I use the sound tower editor which is alright but what in your
> >opinions makes the Vyzor editor better?
> >
> >Is there a feature comparison anywhere?
> >
> >Thanks-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "David" <lost_one95340@> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Yea, I think that's the one i'm gonna go for. Thanks very much.
> >>
> >>-dmn
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
>

I much prefer the sound tower editor.  I like midiquest stuff in
general, but would never use it in VSTi mode (WAY to many crashes, way
to many bugs).  Midi quest takes forever to load up and its just
awkward to use. Yes it looks nice but with the sound tower editor it
is turn on and program, which makes it an obvious choice to me.  

I forked out 75$ to be a "beta" tester of the vyzor editor and it was
a waste imho, it has all the problems of midiquest (i.e. does not
respond to sysex, only sends it) with nothing really new to offer than
nice looking graphics.  

If you want a VSTi mode, there is a midi device template in the files
section that works perfectly.


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wellroturn" <wellroturn@...> wrote:

>
> I'm in the same boat as David. I'm a new owner(well I've had it in 
> the closet since last xmas) of the desktop MEvo and saw your post. I 
> just pulled it out.
> 
> Could I ask for a little more detail? You say different league but 
> it seems there there are so many MIDI librarians/eds etc out their 
> for lots of product now that the only real differnce is the 
> interface. Vyzor looks really cool and soundtowar is more old school 
> functional looking but...
> 
> which is more stable? which has a decent librarian? Anyone with 
> commnets on support?
> 
> These are the three things that I neeed: no crashes/bugs and an 
> intuituve librarian. Im not great at computer mess ups.
> 
> THanks
> Dan DiNila
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Capon" <acapon@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > HI David,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I have both and I only use the Vyzor which I think is in a 
> different
> > league. So my recommendation would be Vysor.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of David
> > Sent: 01 September 2006 19:25
> > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Evolver] Which Editor???
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I just recently purchased a desktop mono Evolver, and was thinking
> > about buying an editor for it. Which editor is best? The 
> Soundtower,
> > or the Vyzor? Thanks in advance.
> >
>

Hi Dan,

 

If you have the rack just email DSI and ask for a copy of the SoundTower
editor, they will probably send you a copy as you should get it with the
rack.

 

The SoundTower editor for me though is very unstable, crashes a lot, and
is just a pain to use. To me it looks like it was programmed by kids.

 

I have never had a crash using Vyzor which is my preferred editor by
far.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

________________________________

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Don DiNila
Sent: 07 September 2006 15:56
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Which Editor???

 

Holy Carp.

I didn't do my research on pricing: I hadn't realized that I was looking
at $75 for beta. LOL. Rack Evo ed from SoundTower comes free with the
machine right?

I should see if I have it...hmm...buying second hand loses things I
guess.

 

Thanks for the info. Definitely don't need more bloat ware that crashes
off.

 

Dan

Actually, it's $59.95 for the beta, which includes the full release 
version 1 when the beta program is finished. It also covers the 
upgrade to version 2 when that is eventually released.

The Soundtower editor doesn't recognize my PEK, so I can't use it. 
Needless to say, I was quite happy when I had the opportunity to be 
a Vyzor beta tester and it went well past my expectations and needs. 
I use it in standalone mode and it's very reliable. I've also tried 
the VST version which seems to work fine, but I have no use for it.

Bernie

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Don DiNila <wellroturn@...> 
wrote:
>
> Holy Carp.
>   I didn't do my research on pricing: I hadn't realized that I was 
looking at $75 for beta. LOL. Rack Evo ed from SoundTower comes free 
with the machine right?
>   I should see if I have it...hmm...buying second hand loses 
things I guess.
>    
>   Thanks for the info. Definitely don't need more bloat ware that 
crashes off.
>    
>   Dan
>   
> 
> altitude909 <altitude@...> wrote:
>           I much prefer the sound tower editor. I like midiquest 
stuff in
> general, but would never use it in VSTi mode (WAY to many crashes, 
way
> to many bugs). Midi quest takes forever to load up and its just
> awkward to use. Yes it looks nice but with the sound tower editor 
it
> is turn on and program, which makes it an obvious choice to me. 
> 
> I forked out 75$ to be a "beta" tester of the vyzor editor and it 
was
> a waste imho, it has all the problems of midiquest (i.e. does not
> respond to sysex, only sends it) with nothing really new to offer 
than
> nice looking graphics. 
> 
> If you want a VSTi mode, there is a midi device template in the 
files
> section that works perfectly.
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "wellroturn" <wellroturn@> 
wrote:
> >
> > I'm in the same boat as David. I'm a new owner(well I've had it 
in 
> > the closet since last xmas) of the desktop MEvo and saw your 
post. I 
> > just pulled it out.
> > 
> > Could I ask for a little more detail? You say different league 
but 
> > it seems there there are so many MIDI librarians/eds etc out 
their 
> > for lots of product now that the only real differnce is the 
> > interface. Vyzor looks really cool and soundtowar is more old 
school 
> > functional looking but...
> > 
> > which is more stable? which has a decent librarian? Anyone with 
> > commnets on support?
> > 
> > These are the three things that I neeed: no crashes/bugs and an 
> > intuituve librarian. Im not great at computer mess ups.
> > 
> > THanks
> > Dan DiNila
> > 
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Capon" <acapon@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > HI David,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I have both and I only use the Vyzor which I think is in a 
> > different
> > > league. So my recommendation would be Vysor.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Andy
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > > From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of David
> > > Sent: 01 September 2006 19:25
> > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Evolver] Which Editor???
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I just recently purchased a desktop mono Evolver, and was 
thinking

> > > about buying an editor for it. Which editor is best? The 
> > Soundtower,
> > > or the Vyzor? Thanks in advance.
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
>  		
> ---------------------------------
> All new Yahoo! Mail  
> ---------------------------------
> Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page.
>

I have to admit, paying for a beta rubs me the wrong way.  Although
the software is great in concept...paying to work to iron out bugs is
against the grain.

Furthermore, having been in software for over 25 years I'll speak to
the direct reason it's not a win-win for the end user...there are no
incentives for the manufacturer to finish the product...he already has
your money.  It goes totally against all marketing concepts and is
never a good buy for the end user.

Either it's going to be a product (in which case we call it that and
ship) or it's not, and the money needs to be returned, regardless of
all the work that's gone into the "incomplete" product.

As to getting notifications, I've not gottne one notification of
updates etc, since I bought my software...it's gone very silent.  So
either there's a flaw in the mailing program or not much is going on.

Ok, off my soap box, with that said, I was interested and signed up
for the beta and paid my $59 over 6 months ago...still no finished
product...hence my rant and very dissatisfied experience to date.

Reid
Ex-MSFTee



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@...> wrote:

>
> Actually, it's $59.95 for the beta, which includes the full release 
> version 1 when the beta program is finished. It also covers the 
> upgrade to version 2 when that is eventually released.
> 
> The Soundtower editor doesn't recognize my PEK, so I can't use it. 
> Needless to say, I was quite happy when I had the opportunity to be 
> a Vyzor beta tester and it went well past my expectations and needs. 
> I use it in standalone mode and it's very reliable. I've also tried 
> the VST version which seems to work fine, but I have no use for it.
> 
> Bernie
>

altitude909,

Can you expand on what this is? I can't find it in the file section. 
Is this something that works onn it's own works with ST or Vyzor?

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "altitude909" <altitude@...> wrote:

> If you want a VSTi mode, there is a midi device template in the files
> section that works perfectly.
> 
>

http://www.rozzer.net/downloads/Evolver_Cubase_SX3_Device_Panel.zip

this is only for SX3, btw since midi device panel were only available
from SX3

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "paidow" <paidow@...> wrote:

>
> altitude909,
> 
> Can you expand on what this is? I can't find it in the file section. 
> Is this something that works onn it's own works with ST or Vyzor?
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "altitude909" <altitude@> wrote:
> 
> > If you want a VSTi mode, there is a midi device template in the files
> > section that works perfectly.
> > 
> >
>

I've got a question for the older Evolvers out there (referring to people, not synths :) 

Has anyone noticed that most of the digital wave forms have a "nasal" tonality to them (I'm referring to synths now and not people :)  Is it just me? It's beginning to bother me more and more. I've created lots of different patches - different in terms of everything - envelope lengths, speeds, effects sounds, leads, bass - everything and all of the digital waves kind of sound the same, like someone talking out of their nose. I'm not saying they all sound exactly the same, however they have a very common tone. The only major difference I find between them is when you apply different filter cutoffs - and I know that is due to the harmonic "content" that each shape has....

I feel the same way about my XTK - which I am thinking about selling....

What do you people think?

-Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: altitude909 <altitude@...>
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:06:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Which Editor???

                           http://www.rozzer. net/downloads/ Evolver_Cubase_ SX3_Device_ Panel.zip
 
 this is only for SX3, btw since midi device panel were only available
 from SX3
 
 --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "paidow" <paidow@...> wrote:

 >
 > altitude909,
 > 
 > Can you expand on what this is? I can't find it in the file section. 
 > Is this something that works onn it's own works with ST or Vyzor?
 > 
 > --- In DSI_Evolver@ yahoogroups. com, "altitude909" <altitude@> wrote:
 > 
 > > If you want a VSTi mode, there is a midi device template in the files
 > > section that works perfectly.
 > > 
 > >
 >

James Elliott <johans121@...> writes:
> Has anyone noticed that most of the digital wave forms have a "nasal"
> tonality to them (I'm referring to synths now and not people :)

Hmm, I guess if you're going to make an extreme generalization, that's
more or less true.

I think the majority of the digital waves are pretty mediocre when used
straight (wadaya expect from those tiny little waveforms created when
people mostly didn't know what they were doing ... :-), but there are
some definite standouts, e.g.:

  * The digital square (#3) is a great strong sound, very different from
    an analogue square, and very useful for layering with the analogue
    oscs.

  * Waves #14 and #15 (i think they're narrow pulses) have a lovely
    buzzy, "nasal in a good way" character.

  * Wave #19 ("feedback"?) is great, in your face, and very usable
    especially when used with lots of filter motion.

  * A lot of high waves have a nice crisp organy character.

etc.

Of course once you start to actually do stuff with them (FM, wave
sequencing, etc, anything to make them less static), things get more
interesting.

I think that even though the Evolver's digital waveforms are very
primitive, they're a useful part of the machine -- they often can
provide that little extra bit of grit or umph or whatever.  I expect
they took Dave about 10 minutes to implement (that's the plus side of
primitiveness), and so added almost nothing to the cost of the machine.
So think of them as "free grit". :-)

-Miles

-- 
"Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture
and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure,
and demoralizing.  On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the
future of the world depends." -Oscar Wilde, "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"

Another question regarding the digital osc's. Why is there no sound
from wave 1? I'm sort of a newbie, so please be kind. Thanks.

"David" <lost_one95340@...> writes:
> Another question regarding the digital osc's. Why is there no sound
> from wave 1? I'm sort of a newbie, so please be kind. Thanks.

It's a sine wave, so it's more prone to getting chopped out by a filter
(or simply harder to hear at very low frequencies).

-Miles
-- 
`Suppose Korea goes to the World Cup final against Japan and wins,' Moon said.
`All the past could be forgiven.'   [NYT]