Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

I know this is the Yamaha forum, but I am torn between the DTXpress
III and the Roland VTour TD6S.  I've searched quite a bit, but really
have not found any useful user opinions on Yamaha vs Roland.  I am
most concerned about pad surface playability since I live over 100
miles from the nearest music store and they have nothing approaching
this quality anyway.

I am looking for an electronic alternative to my 60's era Ludwig kit
which has "noise issues" and could really use any and all suggestions.
 I would be eternally grateful for any advice, assistance, pointers to
other sites, ..., whatever.  

Thanks!

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "quarlofx" <quarlo@e...> wrote:
> I know this is the Yamaha forum, but I am torn between the DTXpress
> III and the Roland VTour TD6S.  I've searched quite a bit, but 
really
> have not found any useful user opinions on Yamaha vs Roland.  I am
> most concerned about pad surface playability since I live over 100
> miles from the nearest music store and they have nothing approaching
> this quality anyway.
> 
> I am looking for an electronic alternative to my 60's era Ludwig kit
> which has "noise issues" and could really use any and all 
suggestions.
>  I would be eternally grateful for any advice, assistance, pointers 
to
> other sites, ..., whatever.  

How's it going?  Welcome. I assume from what you've written that 
you've done the basic research about the two kits. If you need the 
information in one convenient place, go to our "Links" section for 
the Drumbalaya and Musiciansbuy charts, which has a lot of fact and a 
little opinion. The Drumbalaya entry has not yet been updated to show 
the DTXpress III's tri-sound pads and new Motif sounds. The 
DTXpressIIISP has the new round cymbals, including hi hat on a stand, 
and other extras that I won't rehearse here. One possible advantage 
of the Roland is the mesh snare, if you covet one. Many DTXpress 
owners in the past have made such a thing their first upgrade (though 
the bundled TD-6S one is small). But that may be offset somewhat 
these days by the III's tri-sound (head, crosstick, and rimshot) 
snare and tri sound cymbal (bow, bell, and edge--only standard with 
the SP). Nothing on the Roland corresponds to them. One of the 
reasons why you might not have seen much substantive comparison of 
the two kits is that much of a preference would revolve around 
subjective reactions to sounds, feel, fit and finish, etc. Who wants 
to hear "Roland is better"/"No, Yamaha" ad nauseum (as many of us 
have). Maybe someone with extraordinary powers of discrimination can 
tell the difference, but to me, rubber is rubber is rubber, 
regardless of what name is on it. When I bought my first DTXpress 
kit, the rubber didn't bother me a bit; I was in heaven playing it 
(I'd been an acoustic drummer for forty years). 

The truth is that whichever kit you decided to buy would make you 
happy until you start noticing what else you can get with a little 
more money. This is not to imply that lasting happiness is denied 
those who buy entry-level e-kits. But eventually, if you hang around 
forums like this one, your consciousness gets raised, and, as Holmes 
used to say, the game's afoot. The Yamaha e-drum division is much 
more accessible than Roland's (with its own site, complete with 
forum, that just opened today). We actually have a running dialogue 
with principles from the company. Pad for pad, feature for feature, 
Roland also is more expensive than Yamaha--a major consideration for 
many people, regardless of personal taste. If I were in the same 
market today as you are, and I had $1,500, I'd buy the DTXpressIIISP 
and never look back (only forward). It's a lot for the money (despite 
the fact that I happen to like the Roland TD-6 module).

Ed

Been playing drums for a while and at 48 years old bought a new 
DTXTreme-2. So, the differences of Y vs R. From what I gather the R 
has a nice silent mesh head snare vs a noiser rubber snare. 
Personally I like the rubber snare more than mesh due to the 
trampoline feel of the mesh. But, the mesh is nice in that it has 
more "give", and quieter. The rubber pad snare is more like a 
practice pad, and that is right up my alley. I own both silent mesh, 
and rubber pads. Been playing mesh for almost 2 years and will not 
trade my rubber snare for a mesh one. If you are a heavy hitter with 
bad technique get the mesh. It is more forgiving. Bouncy as heck 
where as the ruber seems to mimic a real drum feel more reasonably. 
So in the pad department, it really boils down to personal 
prefrence. Some guys really love the mesh drums. That's where it is 
a very personal decision. Sound wise, I prefer the Yamaha's. Mind 
you the TD-6's do sound nice, and I wouldn't kick them out of bed. I 
always found the Yamaha sound samples more natural and warm. Owning 
the Alesis D4, D-5, Dm Pro and Yamaha DTX-2.0 I prefer the Yamaha 
DTX-2.0. Almost bought a Roland TD-8 but the old Yamaha DTX sounded 
more acoustic.  Thus when the DTXtreme-2 came out it was easy for me 
to decide. I think the DTX 3's sound as good as the DTXtreme-2's. 
The TD-6 sounds better than the TD-8 to me, but I do not own such 
thus and no Roland expert. The TD-6 is a nice kit. What I think it 
boils down to is, do you prefer rubber or mesh snare, and price.  
Soundwise it is up to you what you think sounds more acoustic. If 
you test any electronic drum, use a good set of head phones as store 
monitors sometimes colour the sound. One last point, the rubber 
snare is more durable then the mesh as the cone underneath the 
Roland mesh head will eventually wear out, where as a rubber pad is 
more durable. That is a moot point and do not let that hinder you 
from deciding one over the other. too bad you couldn't try a Yamaha 
kit and Roland kit thus making it easier for a informed decision.

Just thought of an idea. If you find the Yamaha's better price point 
wise, you can always buy a Pintech or Hart silent mesh drum down the 
road. I bought a couple from E bay (Pintech). And that's only if the 
rubber snare is not your cup of tea. Once again, due to working on a 
practice pad alot, I prefer and love rubber, but then again many do 
not. The Roland mesh snare pad is a nice unit and triggers well. To 
transfer drumming skills from a rubber practice pad to rubber snare 
is less of an adjustment vs the mesh. But then again one can do 
awsome doubles with mesh as the rebound is even better than acoustic 
drums. Would like to see you go Yamaha but I try to be unbias 
towards Roland as an educated response is more trusting than an 
emotional one.

Wow!  I've posted to many user groups and forums over the years and
have never received the quality of in-depth responses I've had here! 
Confirms my long-held opinion that drummers make some of the best
folks.

I had done the spec-check (engineers are always so anal about that!),
but was really looking for precisely the subjective evaluations that
only another player can provide since specs only tell a portion of the
tale.  Given that I am far from civilization and even farther from a
decent music store I have no reasonable chance to test drive either
the Yamaha or Roland kits so this information has proven invaluable.

I was mainly concerned about the rebound characteristics of the rubber
vs mesh and whether the rubber composites were similar in feel.  The
details provided were *exactly* what I needed.  I realize it's a YMMV
evaluation, but it helps (me) immensely hearing these things from
folks who actually wield the magic wands.  

emf and drumsonly2002 - you guys *ROCK* (in both the figurative and
literal sense!).  The recommendations were all well-considered and
offered a really balanced view of the electronic kit landscape.  The
pointer emf provided to the Yamaha Winter NAMM demo in a reply to
another member cinched it for me - one Yamaha DTXpressIIISP comin' up!
 (Anybody have any online retailer recommendations/cautions?).

I look forward to an exciting time as a member of this group and hope
I can contribute something of my own once I learn my way around this
electronic block a little bit.

Thank you, again, for the great advice and for making this newbie feel
so welcome!

FX

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "quarlofx" <quarlo@e...> wrote:
> Thank you, again, for the great advice and for making this newbie 
feel
> so welcome!

Hey FX,

Thank you for the kind words. We'll be looking forward to your 
further adventures. As far as good stores are concerned, a bunch of 
vendors sell the DTXpress kits online, but none offer the dedication, 
expertise, and personal attention of Drumbalaya.com, which 
specializes exclusively on all manner of electronic drums and their 
accessories. The proprietor is Ed Morin, who's a member of this 
forum. It's safe to say that Drumbalaya is the e-drummer's holy land. 

Ed

I also thank you. Please do not think I am slurring Roland's great 
products when I honestly say Yamaha has the upper hand on quality 
acoustic samples. I cannot speak for the TD-20 as I have not heard 
it yet, but it gets many excellent reviews. Yamaha may not have the 
mesh headed pads available at the moment but one thing is for sure, 
the rubber pads trigger great, have a nice bounce closer to a real 
drum head. I bought my kit for 3 reasons, First is sound. Realistic 
sounding rock drums is what I need. If it sounds a bit phoney, after 
playing on them for any length of time, something just doesn't sound 
right. Never disapointed with the sounds. When heavily amplifying 
the sound, it just gets better. Second, triggering. I made my own 
pads, bought pads and triggered real drums. I decided to spend the 
extra and get a drum pad matched to the module. Thus the triggering 
and dynamics are right on. I do admit that Roland also has it's act 
together with triggering. Third, confidence. My older Yamaha DTX 2.0 
always works good. It's quiet and reliable. My Alesis stuff has a 
small 60 cycle hum, and less features. Since the Yamaha DTX works so 
good, I figured the newer Yamaha kits should work even better. I was 
never one to buy into marketing hype so I bought what I thought 
would sound and work the best. I spent a lot of hours compairing R 
vs Y in the music store. Though I have great respect for the TD-6's 
and Roland drum Corp, a fine company for sure, my ears dictates 
Yamaha is the boss. Yamaha makes drums. They make world class drums. 
They have been making world class keyboards and synths for years. 
Thus they have devoloped excellent technology,sound samples with 
years of expierence and married it with their drum modules. Yamaha's 
could be more agressive with marketing. The new cite is evidence it 
is focusing on a more personal approach to the end user. Time to 
stop typing, ate too much ice cream and a bit hyper! I am sure you 
will enjoy the drun kit as I play mine every day after work, and use 
it live.

Once again, thank you emf and drumsonly2002.  All of the information,
history and recommendations are very, very much appreciated.  You can
read specs and features lists until the end of time, but experience is
truly priceless and I thank you again for sharing yours so freely and
in such depth.  Your assessment of both products and the features of
electronic kits in general was fair and balanced - something else not
generally seen in the user groups I've frequented in the past.  Lots
of cheerleading and little qualitative analysis.  That NAMM demo of
the DTXpress III SP really sold me.  I checked out the Roland TD6S
demo and it was sweet, but bang-for-the-buck definitely goes to Yamaha.  

I've just been through a lot of personal loss and really need to get
back to what makes me happiest ... music ... and drums have always
been my first love.  Been a long time gone, but the light is starting
to glimmer again.  Thanks, guys!

FX