Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Is it a mixer? A switcher?...A Smoker & A Toker?:o

Steve

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
> 
> Is it a mixer? A switcher?...A Smoker & A Toker?:o

Steve,

Run a search of "magic box" in the archives. 

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > Is it a mixer? A switcher?...A Smoker & A Toker?:o
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Run a search of "magic box" in the archives. 
> 
> Ed

Ah! Thanks Ed,

I guess I should "search" things out a bit more as I've been 
flooding this forum:o 'lol'

Ok, this "Magic Box" looks 'very' interesting! As I have 3 modules 
and run the modules stereo outputs into the 6 CH mixer section from 
my Tascam 246 4 track, I may not yet need one:) I still have pleny 
O' trigger inputs to use up at this point...Just need MORE pads!

Maybe I missed something, but I'm a little unclear still about how 
this 'Magic Box' actually is able to use the 'other' part of the 
stereo trigger input in the DTXpress module..I 'thought' I read 
something about resisters used.

I'll copy & paste below the best description I found in my "search" 
for anyone else who's interested in the Magic Box;)

COPY/PASTE
[Ed,

One of the first two prototypes of the "Magic Box" is on its way to
OGB by arimail right now - in fact I would have hoped he would have
received it by now as it went on 25th November. Pictures are in the
photos/magic box section. It has eight inputs and four outputs and
allows you to add four pads which will then appear as the "rim" of 
the
four inputs you use. A typical setup might be to use the three toms
and say a cymbal input to add another four inputs for cowbells, 
chimes
or other additional sounds. The limitation is that both the rim and
main pad sound cannot be simultaneous so if you put a cowbell and 
TOM1
through the box in to the TOM1 input, you will not be able to play 
the
cowbell and TOM1 simultaneously (but very close together is OK).

It utilises the unused stereo inputs on all the DTXpress inputs. Even
the kick pad can take a three zone snare input. You could even add
two magic boxes if you got carried away.

Keith.]

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
> Maybe I missed something, but I'm a little unclear still about how 
> this 'Magic Box' actually is able to use the 'other' part of the 
> stereo trigger input in the DTXpress module..I 'thought' I read 
> something about resisters used.

All the "stereo" inputs want one piezo and a rim switch as input. 
Without the rim switch you have just the main pad sound available.  If
you want to use two pads on one input, you can't because you have two
piezos and no rim switch instead of one piezo and one rim switch.

The "magic box" takes the two piezo signals and turns them into one
piezo signal plus a rim switch signal to fool the DTXpress box so it
thinks the signal has come from the centre or rim of a two zone pad.

It came about in response to a number of people asking why they cannot
use the unused rim capability of the DTXpress to add more pads instead
of buying another DTXpress box.

Hope that makes it a little clearer.

Keith.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@k...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> 
wrote:
> > Maybe I missed something, but I'm a little unclear still about 
how 
> > this 'Magic Box' actually is able to use the 'other' part of the 
> > stereo trigger input in the DTXpress module..I 'thought' I read 
> > something about resisters used.
> 
> All the "stereo" inputs want one piezo and a rim switch as input. 
> Without the rim switch you have just the main pad sound 
available.  If
> you want to use two pads on one input, you can't because you have 
two
> piezos and no rim switch instead of one piezo and one rim switch.
> 
> The "magic box" takes the two piezo signals and turns them into one
> piezo signal plus a rim switch signal to fool the DTXpress box so 
it
> thinks the signal has come from the centre or rim of a two zone 
pad.
> 
> It came about in response to a number of people asking why they 
cannot
> use the unused rim capability of the DTXpress to add more pads 
instead
> of buying another DTXpress box.
> 
> Hope that makes it a little clearer.
> 
> Keith.


Thanks Keith,

I only just saw this thing over last weekend, and what a great idea! 
Are you planning on devoping this thing commercially, or just for 
Sheets N' Keegles? 
Yeah, I was 'one' of those who asked why I couldn't use the stereo 
inputs with two single zone pads 'way back' when there was only a 
DTXpress I kit. My question was explained at the time.
I suppose the "Magic" part of the box is a secret? Since you are the 
creater of this "Magic Box" and if it is a secret, it's cool:) But 
again, I thought I read that some kind of resister? (10K?) is used 
to - shall I say - convert, or tag along an FSR like signal to the 
modules 2nd part of the stereo trigger input. Maybe I read something 
else though?...CRS!!!

Not near as crafty, but I had been thinking about building something 
that 'looks' similar. Some kind of trigger input/output box. 
Basically I guess just a glorified patch bay of sorts, as a way to 
easily interchange the ins/outs of my trigger pads to my three drum 
modules as needed. Then go a step further in the design by adding 
switches on it so I can route the ins/outs 'without' actually having 
to unplug and plug (as in a regular patch bay) my triggers jacks. 
Just a thought though!

Note, since I DO have multiple modules that I've not yet got enough 
pads to fill in all my trigger inputs as it is, I may not need a 
Magic Box yet, but it's definately something I may consider at some 
point...But hell, it sounds like a blast just experimenting with 
it!:)
This excess of trigger inputs that I DO have, makes me want to 
experiment in building some triggers & I'm thinking of different 
unique ways to make these. I've seen some pretty crazy designs!
This also brings me back a memory as a kid of about 12? I made an 
entire drum set, out of Folgers coffee cans. The cymbals were made 
from the metal cut out lids, and the cans themselves were the drums, 
the plasic top covers were the drum heads. Sounded like crap too! 
["He,he"] I thought about revisiting this idea (as a novelty) but 
with triggers put on them...But these days I drink Uban! 'lol'

Steve

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
> 
> I suppose the "Magic" part of the box is a secret? Since you are the 
> creater of this "Magic Box" and if it is a secret, it's cool:) But 
> again, I thought I read that some kind of resister? (10K?) is used 
> to - shall I say - convert, or tag along an FSR like signal to the 
> modules 2nd part of the stereo trigger input. Maybe I read something 
> else though?...CRS!!!

Steve,

I plan to commercialise it if practical.  If there isn't enough
demand, or if it has limitations which would make it uncommercial, I
will publish circuits here and information so hobbyists can make their
own.  There is one trick which is required to make it work, so I have
filed a patent application for it, just in case!

The 10k resistor is used to get 2 rim sounds instead of just one.  The
DTXpress detects the resistance of the rim switch.  Theoretically I
could make the magic box have 12 inputs and 4 outputs but feedback
from this group suggested 8 in and 4 out would be a sensible number.  

Keith.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@k...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > I suppose the "Magic" part of the box is a secret? But 
> > again, I thought I read that some kind of resister? (10K?) is 
used 

 Steve,
> 
> I plan to commercialise it if practical.  If there isn't enough
> demand, or if it has limitations which would make it uncommercial, 
I
> will publish circuits here and information so hobbyists can make 
their
> own.  There is one trick which is required to make it work, so I 
have
> filed a patent application for it, just in case!
> 
> The 10k resistor is used to get 2 rim sounds instead of just one.  
The
> DTXpress detects the resistance of the rim switch.  Theoretically I
> could make the magic box have 12 inputs and 4 outputs but feedback
> from this group suggested 8 in and 4 out would be a sensible 
number.  
> 
> Keith.

Sounds great Keith,

Yeah, being as greedy as I am, I was wondering why there was 
not 'more' inputs myself - just how my mind works - Though 8 in 4 
out is sensible, I'm wondering if the 12 in 4 out would be that much 
more costly to make/sell?

I just now had a thought about my previous post about if something 
like my glorified patch bay idea with the switchable out put 
selection would be usful to build into something like your Magic 
Box? Again, the switches was an idea to swap my triggers easily from 
one module to another. Eh, maybe too complicated :/ ...If not I 
won't be marketing 'my' idea btw ;)

I also had another thought last night to experiment with...At this 
time I have 2 of my modules in operation with my kit and their 
stereo outputs going to my small mixer, then out to my sound card 
etc...
I don't know how this would affect this would have on the triggers, 
but 'instead' of (I'll call it) my "super Patch-bay idea", has 
anybody tried running the trigger pads directly into a mixer 1st, 
then into a module or 2? I was thinking that I could use the panning 
L/R part of the mixer to send the triggers signals outputs from one 
module to another, or both modules if panned at the center...?
In fact I'm going to try the above. If it's something that's usful 
to me, I'll look to buy some kind of small rack mount mixer...Or 
I'll build some kind of custom job for the task. Though building a 
mixer with levels and panning is above my skills, so...?

Steve

Steve, 
 
Did you ever see my cable management system that I had on my old kit. It had
a series of remote jack points (six points with 5 TRS jacks) that came back
to a central "hub" of 40 TRS jacks. The hub mounted just below the three
Dtxpress II modules. I then used 12" and 24" patch cords to connect the pads
to the remote jacks and 12" TRS cables from the central hub to the module.
If I wanted to switch a pad from one module to another, I just changed the
patch cables at the module. At one point I posted them at this group, but
removed them. I know they were posted at Vdrums and are still there. You
have to do a search under "cable management" I think to get to them. If I
ever get the chance, I may do something similar for my current kit. All the
internal cabling was TRS and all jacks were TRS.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: zapaxe
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: What is this "Magic Box" in the Pic's section? And
what does it do?



> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> 
wrote:
I just now had a thought about my previous post about if something 
like my glorified patch bay idea with the switchable out put 
selection 

 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Steve, 
>  
> Did you ever see my cable management system that I had on my old 
kit. It had
> a series of remote jack points (six points with 5 TRS jacks) that 
came back
> to a central "hub" of 40 TRS jacks. The hub mounted just below the 
three
> Dtxpress II modules. I then used 12" and 24" patch cords to 
connect the pads
> to the remote jacks and 12" TRS cables from the central hub to the 
module.
> If I wanted to switch a pad from one module to another, I just 
changed the
> patch cables at the module. At one point I posted them at this 
group, but
> removed them. I know they were posted at Vdrums and are still 
there. You
> have to do a search under "cable management" I think to get to 
them. If I
> ever get the chance, I may do something similar for my current 
kit. All the
> internal cabling was TRS and all jacks were TRS.
>  
> OGD

Hi OGD,

No, I didn't see that..I'm off to work, but I'll want to do 
a "search" for it later and check it out for sure! 
It think it sounds similar to what I was thinking, minus my idea of 
installing switches to eliminate having to unplug the cables...?

I did build something similar before, but a much more simple design 
for my guitar to switch between guitar amps. This was before I had a 
rack-mount multi-FX unit with a multi-switch pedal that could switch 
an almost unlimited amount of settings, volumes, distortions FX's 
etc...So I dropped my home-made amp switcher!

Steve

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
> 
> I don't know how this would affect this would have on the triggers, 
> but 'instead' of (I'll call it) my "super Patch-bay idea", has 
> anybody tried running the trigger pads directly into a mixer 1st, 
> then into a module or 2? I was thinking that I could use the panning 
> L/R part of the mixer to send the triggers signals outputs from one 
> module to another, or both modules if panned at the center...?
> In fact I'm going to try the above. If it's something that's usful 
> to me, I'll look to buy some kind of small rack mount mixer...Or 
> I'll build some kind of custom job for the task. Though building a 
> mixer with levels and panning is above my skills, so...?
> 
> 

Steve,

Be careful putting the triggers into a mixer - the piezos can generate
10V or more - may not improve the mixer input stage.

Keith.

...has anybody tried running the trigger pads directly into a mixer 
1st, then into a module or 2? I was thinking that I could use the 
panning L/R part of the mixer to send the triggers signals outputs 
from one module to another, or both modules if panned at the 
center...?

Steve,
 
Be careful putting the triggers into a mixer - the piezos can 
generate 10V or more - may not improve the mixer input stage.
 
Keith.

Ooh, I didn't know that! I normally start levels at zereo when I do 
things that may an adverse affect on my gear:0
But I may be better of with my "Super Patch-Bay" idea with selection 
switches & "Y" capabilities as I don't actually need to "pan" 
anything, just left to one module, right to another, or both!

Steve