Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi ppl

I've been getting about 50% triggering from my KP65 (discussed
previously here), and I took ppl's advice and tried changing the leads
and so on. I still think it's the pad.

I've a gig in September, and the deal is I get to send the KP65 back
for repair. Obviously there's a risk I'll be kickless for my gig, and
anyway, how do I practice in the meantime.

So I got to thinking, I'll buy another KP65. Since it seems to be
general knowledge it's not triffically robust, I thought having a
second would give me a good chance of a long life after Yamaha replace
the product and finally withdraw support.

However, my supplier is saying that Yamaha say there are none in stock
and won't be until September. I also started to think .. why am I
buying another unit of dodgy reputation?

So, folks, the question. What might be a better replacement? A Roland?
A Yamaha kick pad from the Xtreme or higher? Do they work? Any advice
or thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers
J

KP65 is in stock at Thomann - http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_index.html 
price is £46.23 + approx £15 for delivery.

The kick pad supplied with DTXtreme IIs is, you guessed it, a KP65.

I had a problem with missed triggers on a DTXpress III whilst playing 
live - turned out to be caused by the bass guitar speaker - solution 
was to lower all the kick trigger rejection settings & up the gain + 
move the bass guitar speaker - then everything worked fine.

> KP65 is in stock at Thomann - http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_index.html
> price is \ufffd46.23 + approx \ufffd15 for delivery.
>
> The kick pad supplied with DTXtreme IIs is, you guessed it, a KP65.
>
> I had a problem with missed triggers on a DTXpress III whilst playing
> live - turned out to be caused by the bass guitar speaker - solution
> was to lower all the kick trigger rejection settings & up the gain +
> move the bass guitar speaker - then everything worked fine.

Thanks, I'll have a play

J

They are in stock at Thomann:

http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_yamaha_kp60_prodinfo.html

Keith.

> I had a problem with missed triggers on a DTXpress III whilst playing
> live - turned out to be caused by the bass guitar speaker - solution
> was to lower all the kick trigger rejection settings & up the gain +
> move the bass guitar speaker - then everything worked fine.

That didn't fix my problem :-( (but thanks anyway, I hadn't dared play
with those settings before)

J

Before you consider getting a replacement kick pad, have you tried 
adjusting the polarity switch, from A to B, or B to A.  I use a KP65 
and have cured it of the mistriggering problem by doing that.

Nick.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
> Hi ppl
> 
> I've been getting about 50% triggering from my KP65 (discussed
> previously here), and I took ppl's advice and tried changing the 
leads
> and so on. I still think it's the pad.
> 
> I've a gig in September, and the deal is I get to send the KP65 
back
> for repair. Obviously there's a risk I'll be kickless for my gig, 
and
> anyway, how do I practice in the meantime.
> 
> So I got to thinking, I'll buy another KP65. Since it seems to be
> general knowledge it's not triffically robust, I thought having a
> second would give me a good chance of a long life after Yamaha 
replace
> the product and finally withdraw support.
> 
> However, my supplier is saying that Yamaha say there are none in 
stock
> and won't be until September. I also started to think .. why am I
> buying another unit of dodgy reputation?
> 
> So, folks, the question. What might be a better replacement? A 
Roland?
> A Yamaha kick pad from the Xtreme or higher? Do they work? Any 
advice

> or thoughts would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> J

> Before you consider getting a replacement kick pad, have you tried
> adjusting the polarity switch, from A to B, or B to A.  I use a KP65
> and have cured it of the mistriggering problem by doing that.
>
> Nick.

Thanks, I don't know anything about a polarity switch, but that's what
manuals are for, right?

J

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
> > Before you consider getting a replacement kick pad, have you 
tried
> > adjusting the polarity switch, from A to B, or B to A.  I use a 
KP65
> > and have cured it of the mistriggering problem by doing that.
> >
> > Nick.
> 
> Thanks, I don't know anything about a polarity switch, but that's 
what
> manuals are for, right?
> 
> J

I've had problems with the KP too. They actually sent me another one 
and it took like a month to get here. Since I'm not recording til 
winter, I thought I'd keep using the old KP and try to figure a way 
to "trick" it. One thing you could do (also I have the DTX III) is 
switch taht input attenuation lever on the back, and/or change the 
MVel level (this changes the velocity range). That's what worked for 
me.. I figure it's good enough till you have the time to receive a 
new pad. As for a polarity switch, I'm not sure what that is.. I'd 
be interested in playin' round with it though. Good luck man!

Alan

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
>> > Before you consider getting a replacement kick pad, have you
> tried
>> > adjusting the polarity switch, from A to B, or B to A.  I use a
> KP65
>> > and have cured it of the mistriggering problem by doing that.
>> >
>> > Nick.
>>
>> Thanks, I don't know anything about a polarity switch, but that's
> what
>> manuals are for, right?
>>
>> J

I didn't find anything about a polarity switch

> Alan said:
> I've had problems with the KP too. They actually sent me another one
> and it took like a month to get here. Since I'm not recording til
> winter, I thought I'd keep using the old KP and try to figure a way
> to "trick" it. One thing you could do (also I have the DTX III) is
> switch taht input attenuation lever on the back, and/or change the
> MVel level (this changes the velocity range). That's what worked for
> me.. I figure it's good enough till you have the time to receive a
> new pad. As for a polarity switch, I'm not sure what that is.. I'd
> be interested in playin' round with it though. Good luck man!

Thanks, I'll try that.

So, no-one's said anything about an alternative unit. Is there really
no choice but to use this dodgy one? It sticks in my throat to buy
another dodgy unit because the first one doesn't work.

J

> So, no-one's said anything about an alternative unit. Is there really
> no choice but to use this dodgy one? It sticks in my throat to buy
> another dodgy unit because the first one doesn't work.

I guess you could try a Roland KD8, as used on the TD6.  I don't know
about compatibility though - maybe someone has tried it?

Keith.

> Keith said:
>> So, no-one's said anything about an alternative unit. Is there
>> really
>> no choice but to use this dodgy one? It sticks in my throat to buy
>> another dodgy unit because the first one doesn't work.
>
> I guess you could try a Roland KD8, as used on the TD6.  I don't know
> about compatibility though - maybe someone has tried it?

Thanks, I'll investigate.

It's just weird isn't it .. there's been lots of talk about Pintech
mesh pads and so on. The pads work. The bass drum pad fails often, and
yet no-one seems to be using an alternative. Maybe there's a very good
reason.

Of course, between you and me we could run a test .. I could pop
around with my brain and lead, and you could plug your bass drum pedal
in and we could see if it's settings, the lead, or the brain, or the
kick trigger. Maybe it's time for us to meet :-)

J

> Of course, between you and me we could run a test .. I could pop
> around with my brain and lead, and you could plug your bass drum pedal
> in and we could see if it's settings, the lead, or the brain, or the
> kick trigger. Maybe it's time for us to meet :-)
> 

I am happy to help if I can.  I have an oscilloscope so we can look at
signals as well if necessary.  Drop me an email off the board and we
can set it up.

Keith.

You will find the A-B polarity switch on your KP65 kick tower.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
> >> > Before you consider getting a replacement kick pad, have you
> > tried
> >> > adjusting the polarity switch, from A to B, or B to A.  I use 
a
> > KP65
> >> > and have cured it of the mistriggering problem by doing that.
> >> >
> >> > Nick.
> >>
> >> Thanks, I don't know anything about a polarity switch, but 
that's
> > what
> >> manuals are for, right?
> >>
> >> J
> 
> I didn't find anything about a polarity switch
> 
> > Alan said:
> > I've had problems with the KP too. They actually sent me another 
one
> > and it took like a month to get here. Since I'm not recording til
> > winter, I thought I'd keep using the old KP and try to figure a 
way
> > to "trick" it. One thing you could do (also I have the DTX III) 
is
> > switch taht input attenuation lever on the back, and/or change 
the
> > MVel level (this changes the velocity range). That's what worked 
for
> > me.. I figure it's good enough till you have the time to receive 
a
> > new pad. As for a polarity switch, I'm not sure what that is.. 
I'd
> > be interested in playin' round with it though. Good luck man!
> 
> Thanks, I'll try that.
> 
> So, no-one's said anything about an alternative unit. Is there 
really

> no choice but to use this dodgy one? It sticks in my throat to buy
> another dodgy unit because the first one doesn't work.
> 
> J

> You will find the A-B polarity switch on your KP65 kick tower.

I've had a look and, although I have the blokey problem of not
actually being able to see things that are right in front of my eyes
(my g/f then comes along and points it out for me), I'm almost 100%
sure there's no such switch on mine. Maybe they phased it out/in at
some point.

When you mentioned it the first time I looked in the manual and
couldn't see any mention, although again I might have missed it.

J

No switch on mine either.  There is a level knob though - have you
tried that?

Keith.

> No switch on mine either.  There is a level knob though - have you
> tried that?
>
> Keith.

Yes, I think that's just an output volume pot. To be honest, the
minimum volume setting (whatever that was called) seems to have helped
the most, so I'm keen to see what happens on Tuesday. It would suggest
that sometimes the pad triggers but only lightly regardless of the
strength of the hit.

J

Hi
 
I have a problem with my DTXpress II kickpad (which I believe is the  KP-65).
 
If I play quite vigourously, the pad doesn't acknowledge my beat - I can  
kick but no sound comes out.  This is REALLY frustrating when you're  playing and 
getting into it.
 
Anyone help?
 
Mark

Please see the previous posts about this - it is the most frequently 
discussed topic on this list!!

It could be one of two things:
(a) If your pad is getting worn out (if you have had it for a while) then 
there are a number of measures to take.  Can't remember what they are, mine 
hasn't started playing up yet.
(b) Take a look at the rejection settings (self and specific).  Other pads 
may be preventing it triggering, or its own vibration may be to blame.  If 
the kick is specifically rejecting any of the other pads then take this 
setting down to zero, also reduce self rejection to very low too.

Hope this helps.  Sorry, not much detail here, haven't got much time!

Matt

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.loopit.org
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
----- Original Message ----- 

From: <MarkMcder9@...>
To: <DTXpress@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: [DTXpress] Re: KP65 bass drum pad replacement


> Hi
>
> I have a problem with my DTXpress II kickpad (which I believe is the 
> KP-65).
>
> If I play quite vigourously, the pad doesn't acknowledge my beat - I can
> kick but no sound comes out.  This is REALLY frustrating when you're 
> playing and
> getting into it.
>
> Anyone help?
>
> Mark
>

> Hi
>
> I have a problem with my DTXpress II kickpad (which I believe is the
> KP-65).
>
> If I play quite vigourously, the pad doesn't acknowledge my beat - I
> can
> kick but no sound comes out.  This is REALLY frustrating when you're
> playing and
> getting into it.
>
> Anyone help?

That's pretty much the problem we've been discussing with mine, have a
look back and you'll see all the possible solutions.

The one that's worked best for me so far (it's been pretty well
behaved the last few days) is raising the minimum volume setting.

J

Hi- haven t posted for a while. (like forever) I made a serviceable replacement pad a couple years ago from a practice pad and a radio shack piezo. The KP

Thanks, well the other night I had a fantastic hour or two with Keith
(also from this list, and an electronics engineer) in which we
actually found what was wrong.

As I understand it, the piezo in my pad has been wired the wrong way
around. When we plugged HIS pad into his oscilloscope we saw what we
expected, a peak followed by a smaller trough.

Mine produces a trough followed by a smaller peak. It's the same, but
upside down.

The theory goes that the brain is looking for a peak, so it reacts to
the smaller peak my pad produces after the larger trough.

That's why playing with the gain and minimum volume works, because the
pad is only producing a small trigger signal.

Also, he's had his kit for over a year, while I've had mine for maybe
9 months. We both claim to play for an hour a day. His kit is
immaculate .. no marks anywhere. On mine, all the pads are marked. He
uses anti-vibration sticks and turns up the volume. All the evidence
is that he hits the pads light, while I hit hard. If I'm doing the
same with the bass drum pad, even a small degredation in its
performance (which would be much accelerated compared to his) together
with the low trigger signal could cause the problem to become worse.

The other interesting thing is that my KP65 is later (s/n 41??? ish)
whereas his was about 33???, so you'd expect the probability of
manufacturing problems to have become lower with mine.

Anyway, he convinced me of what you say .. that the mechanism is very
simple and very cheap. I've never actually managed to get anything
I've had to solder to work, but I'm half tempted by the simplicity of
these things.

J

> Hi- haven't posted for a while.
> (like forever)
> I made a serviceable replacement pad a couple years ago from a
> practice pad
> and a radio shack piezo. The KP stand works as a support for this.
> Total
> cost about $20. Pix were posted on the site. Has worked very well for
> the
> past couple of years.
>
> On 8/19/05, john@... <john@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I have a problem with my DTXpress II kickpad (which I believe is
>> the
>> > KP-65).
>> >
>> > If I play quite vigourously, the pad doesn't acknowledge my beat -
>> I
>> > can
>> > kick but no sound comes out. This is REALLY frustrating when
>> you're
>> > playing and
>> > getting into it.
>> >
>> > Anyone help?
>>
>> That's pretty much the problem we've been discussing with mine, have
>> a
>> look back and you'll see all the possible solutions.
>>
>> The one that's worked best for me so far (it's been pretty well
>> behaved the last few days) is raising the minimum volume setting.
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
>>
>> Alternate DTXpress site:
>> http://www.dtxpressions.com
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Creighton Higgins
>