Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi, 
There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the DTXPRESS IV by 
July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based. 

Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs 
unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than current 
DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops, incl 
Yamaha's showroom.

Does anybody else have any info?

Cheers

Don't bother mate,
the Roland equivalent is far better!
As some of you might remember, I was constantly having
problems with my DTXIIIsp; the kick drum would 
randomly drop out all the time.
As a result, I returned it to the store where I purchased it,
they tested it and could not rectify the problem.

And since sales have dropped dramatically with this model,
Yamaha ain't shipping them out here anymore (Aus),
as everyone who is spending around the same money
as the DTXIIIsp are buying the Roland TD-6V instead.
It is no longer cost effective for Yamaha to do so. 

So, the drum store gave me the option to try out the equivalent of 
the DTXIIIsp and gave me a test drive of the Roland TD-6V,
(they just added another e-cymbal to the standard kit),
and I gotta say, if I'd known about this model before, I would of 
chosen it over the DTXIII any day!

The three rubber toms are far more realistic as far as feel goes
and having an e-snare with a mesh head not only feels better 
to play, it too is far more realistic and it also eradicates stick 
vibration which is such a major problem with rubber pad snare drums,
(I had no joy using the Zildjian anti vibe sticks),
not to mention that they sound much better than the Yamaha kit.

There is no match between the two when it comes to sound quality,
that's the first thing I noticed. You have far more options with the 
Roland and can achieve a more realistic sound when it comes to 
designing your own style of drum kit. 

I recommend strongly that you check out the Roland TD-6V
before you spend your hard earned on a Yamaha. They cost around the 
same as each other, (I had them valued before I made the switch)
and you will definately get better value from the Roland,
it didn't take long for me to work that one out!

And another good thing (for me) is that Roland make these kits
in every country they distribute them to. Their factory is about 
3kms from where I live and I can buy accessories directly from them
as well.

10 points all round!

All the best,
              Chris.  

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Shivprakash_Nayar" 
<shivprakash_nayar@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, 
> There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the DTXPRESS 
IV by 
> July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based. 
> 
> Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs 
> unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than 
current 
> DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops, 
incl 

> Yamaha's showroom.
> 
> Does anybody else have any info?
> 
> Cheers
>

Do you think the TD-6V sound module (brain) would work on the yamaha  
pads... would be cheaper than replacing the whole set. Maybe just  
replace the snare with the mesh head. What do you think ?

Nick

Quoting "Chris . B." <mmhs@...>:

> Don't bother mate,
> the Roland equivalent is far better!
> As some of you might remember, I was constantly having
> problems with my DTXIIIsp; the kick drum would
> randomly drop out all the time.
> As a result, I returned it to the store where I purchased it,
> they tested it and could not rectify the problem.
>
> And since sales have dropped dramatically with this model,
> Yamaha ain't shipping them out here anymore (Aus),
> as everyone who is spending around the same money
> as the DTXIIIsp are buying the Roland TD-6V instead.
> It is no longer cost effective for Yamaha to do so.
>
> So, the drum store gave me the option to try out the equivalent of
> the DTXIIIsp and gave me a test drive of the Roland TD-6V,
> (they just added another e-cymbal to the standard kit),
> and I gotta say, if I'd known about this model before, I would of
> chosen it over the DTXIII any day!
>
> The three rubber toms are far more realistic as far as feel goes
> and having an e-snare with a mesh head not only feels better
> to play, it too is far more realistic and it also eradicates stick
> vibration which is such a major problem with rubber pad snare drums,
> (I had no joy using the Zildjian anti vibe sticks),
> not to mention that they sound much better than the Yamaha kit.
>
> There is no match between the two when it comes to sound quality,
> that's the first thing I noticed. You have far more options with the
> Roland and can achieve a more realistic sound when it comes to
> designing your own style of drum kit.
>
> I recommend strongly that you check out the Roland TD-6V
> before you spend your hard earned on a Yamaha. They cost around the
> same as each other, (I had them valued before I made the switch)
> and you will definately get better value from the Roland,
> it didn't take long for me to work that one out!
>
> And another good thing (for me) is that Roland make these kits
> in every country they distribute them to. Their factory is about
> 3kms from where I live and I can buy accessories directly from them
> as well.
>
> 10 points all round!
>
> All the best,
>               Chris.
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Shivprakash_Nayar"
> <shivprakash_nayar@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the DTXPRESS
> IV by
>> July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based.
>>
>> Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs
>> unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than
> current
>> DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops,
> incl
>> Yamaha's showroom.
>>
>> Does anybody else have any info?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
>  Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress[1]
>
> Alternate DTXpress site:
>   http://www.dtxpressions.com[2]
>
>  SPONSORED LINKS
>
> 	 Percussion instruments[3] 		 Percussion musical instrument[4]
> Musical instrument drum[5]
> 	 Percussion drum set[6] 		 Dtxpress iii[7] 		 Yamaha dtxpress[8]
>
> -------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>   *  Visit your group "DTXpress[9]" on the web.
>
>   *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[10]
>
>   *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service[11].
>
> -------------------------
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> [2] http://www.dtxpressions.com
> [3]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Percussion+instruments&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=u0odwdYJn0fDGEQBXUpc7g
> [4]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Percussion+musical+instrument&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=C__hCA7mSoNB4hVrBh7MDQ
> [5]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Musical+instrument+drum&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=B7t-n213MqFKUS2icgAuQA
> [6]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Percussion+drum+set&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=KFPKwQMibq6Pbdf3_nxNVg
> [7]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Dtxpress+iii&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=CUNN-aYE-JtinAkdaBWvCw
> [8]   
> http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Yamaha+dtxpress&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=Oskv9HD6SgU5jrhzgkaY8g
> [9] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> [10] mailto:DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
> [11] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

The reason why I chose the DTX3sp over the Roland kit was because of 
the mesh head! Yes it is good but I have a problem with noise and my 
neighbours and I felt the rubber pad of the Yamaha was much quieter 
than a mesh one !I did upgrade to the TP120 though and I have found 
this to be excellent. I really like the pad and I don't find it at 
problem at all. I bought my kit secondhand from Ebay and I have had 
no problems so far ! The rest of the kit in my opinion is as good as 
the Roland. I suppose it is all down to personal preference and lets 
face it us drummers do tend to be a "little picky " over our kits ! 


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@...> wrote:
>
> Don't bother mate,
> the Roland equivalent is far better!
> As some of you might remember, I was constantly having
> problems with my DTXIIIsp; the kick drum would 
> randomly drop out all the time.
> As a result, I returned it to the store where I purchased it,
> they tested it and could not rectify the problem.
> 
> And since sales have dropped dramatically with this model,
> Yamaha ain't shipping them out here anymore (Aus),
> as everyone who is spending around the same money
> as the DTXIIIsp are buying the Roland TD-6V instead.
> It is no longer cost effective for Yamaha to do so. 
> 
> So, the drum store gave me the option to try out the equivalent of 
> the DTXIIIsp and gave me a test drive of the Roland TD-6V,
> (they just added another e-cymbal to the standard kit),
> and I gotta say, if I'd known about this model before, I would of 
> chosen it over the DTXIII any day!
> 
> The three rubber toms are far more realistic as far as feel goes
> and having an e-snare with a mesh head not only feels better 
> to play, it too is far more realistic and it also eradicates stick 
> vibration which is such a major problem with rubber pad snare 
drums,
> (I had no joy using the Zildjian anti vibe sticks),
> not to mention that they sound much better than the Yamaha kit.
> 
> There is no match between the two when it comes to sound quality,
> that's the first thing I noticed. You have far more options with 
the 
> Roland and can achieve a more realistic sound when it comes to 
> designing your own style of drum kit. 
> 
> I recommend strongly that you check out the Roland TD-6V
> before you spend your hard earned on a Yamaha. They cost around 
the 

> same as each other, (I had them valued before I made the switch)
> and you will definately get better value from the Roland,
> it didn't take long for me to work that one out!
> 
> And another good thing (for me) is that Roland make these kits
> in every country they distribute them to. Their factory is about 
> 3kms from where I live and I can buy accessories directly from them
> as well.
> 
> 10 points all round!
> 
> All the best,
>               Chris.  
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Shivprakash_Nayar" 
> <shivprakash_nayar@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, 
> > There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the DTXPRESS 
> IV by 
> > July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based. 
> > 
> > Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs 
> > unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than 
> current 
> > DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops, 
> incl 
> > Yamaha's showroom.
> > 
> > Does anybody else have any info?
> > 
> > Cheers
> >
>

Yeah, replacing the snare with the Roland meash head woulcertainly 
make a difference with your drumming, just as long as they
are compatible with each other. This I'm not sure about Nick.
Cheers,
         Chris.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, nick@... wrote:
>
> Do you think the TD-6V sound module (brain) would work on the 
yamaha  
> pads... would be cheaper than replacing the whole set. Maybe just  
> replace the snare with the mesh head. What do you think ?
> 
> Nick
> 
> Quoting "Chris . B." <mmhs@...>:
> 
> > Don't bother mate,
> > the Roland equivalent is far better!
> > As some of you might remember, I was constantly having
> > problems with my DTXIIIsp; the kick drum would
> > randomly drop out all the time.
> > As a result, I returned it to the store where I purchased it,
> > they tested it and could not rectify the problem.
> >
> > And since sales have dropped dramatically with this model,
> > Yamaha ain't shipping them out here anymore (Aus),
> > as everyone who is spending around the same money
> > as the DTXIIIsp are buying the Roland TD-6V instead.
> > It is no longer cost effective for Yamaha to do so.
> >
> > So, the drum store gave me the option to try out the equivalent 
of
> > the DTXIIIsp and gave me a test drive of the Roland TD-6V,
> > (they just added another e-cymbal to the standard kit),
> > and I gotta say, if I'd known about this model before, I would of
> > chosen it over the DTXIII any day!
> >
> > The three rubber toms are far more realistic as far as feel goes
> > and having an e-snare with a mesh head not only feels better
> > to play, it too is far more realistic and it also eradicates 
stick
> > vibration which is such a major problem with rubber pad snare 
drums,
> > (I had no joy using the Zildjian anti vibe sticks),
> > not to mention that they sound much better than the Yamaha kit.
> >
> > There is no match between the two when it comes to sound quality,
> > that's the first thing I noticed. You have far more options with 
the
> > Roland and can achieve a more realistic sound when it comes to
> > designing your own style of drum kit.
> >
> > I recommend strongly that you check out the Roland TD-6V
> > before you spend your hard earned on a Yamaha. They cost around 
the
> > same as each other, (I had them valued before I made the switch)
> > and you will definately get better value from the Roland,
> > it didn't take long for me to work that one out!
> >
> > And another good thing (for me) is that Roland make these kits
> > in every country they distribute them to. Their factory is about
> > 3kms from where I live and I can buy accessories directly from 
them
> > as well.
> >
> > 10 points all round!
> >
> > All the best,
> >               Chris.
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Shivprakash_Nayar"
> > <shivprakash_nayar@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the DTXPRESS
> > IV by
> >> July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based.
> >>
> >> Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs
> >> unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than
> > current
> >> DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops,
> > incl
> >> Yamaha's showroom.
> >>
> >> Does anybody else have any info?
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >
> >  Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress[1]
> >
> > Alternate DTXpress site:
> >   http://www.dtxpressions.com[2]
> >
> >  SPONSORED LINKS
> >
> > 	 Percussion instruments[3] 		 Percussion musical 
instrument[4]
> > Musical instrument drum[5]
> > 	 Percussion drum set[6] 		 Dtxpress iii[7] 
		 Yamaha dtxpress[8]
> >
> > -------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >   *  Visit your group "DTXpress[9]" on the web.
> >
> >   *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[10]
> >
> >   *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service[11].
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> > [2] http://www.dtxpressions.com
> > [3]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Percussion+instruments&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion
+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set
&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=u0odwdYJn0fDGEQBXU
pc7g
> > [4]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Percussion+musical+instrument&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Per
cussion+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+d
rum+set&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=C__hCA7mSoN
B4hVrBh7MDQ
> > [5]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Musical+instrument+drum&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussio
n+musical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+se
t&w5=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=B7t-
n213MqFKUS2icgAuQA
> > [6]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Percussion+drum+set&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+mu
sical+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5
=Dtxpress+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=KFPKwQMibq6Pbdf3_nxNV
g
> > [7]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Dtxpress+iii&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musical+i
nstrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtxpre
ss+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=CUNN-aYE-JtinAkdaBWvCw
> > [8]   
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Yamaha+dtxpress&w1=Percussion+instruments&w2=Percussion+musica
l+instrument&w3=Musical+instrument+drum&w4=Percussion+drum+set&w5=Dtx
press+iii&w6=Yamaha+dtxpress&c=6&s=156&.sig=Oskv9HD6SgU5jrhzgkaY8g
> > [9] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> > [10] mailto:DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
subject=Unsubscribe

> > [11] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>

Nick,

It depends on your definition of "work."  Traditionally, Yamaha pads 
have mated better with Yamaha electronics, and likewise on the Roland 
side. Roland, however, usually accommodates Yamaha gum rubber better 
that Yamaha does mesh heads, especially in the area of dynamic range.  
If you're seriously considering a Roland brain, take one of your 
Yamaha rubber pads to a Guitar Center or similar Roland outlet and 
connect it with the TD-6V module to make your own assessment.

So far as mesh heads are concerned, superiority to rubber is not a 
given.  The accuracy and feel of a mesh-head drum depends entirely on 
which head is on it. The Roland heads always tended to be too springy 
for many peoples' taste.  Hart's two-plies had far more champions 
until Roland forced them from the market. Hart's single-ply 
replacement might be worth a try if the Rolands don't do the trick. 
Also, if you're not familiar with the pads in Yamaha's DTXtreme kit, 
you should do yourself a favor a try them out before investing in a 
mesh kit or snare. I personally have favored mesh for many years, but 
the Xtreme pads are nothing like those that in the Xpress kits; they 
have both give and feel. They are easily as playable and gentle on the 
joints as Roland's stock meshes (as well as being quieter)

It's always entertaining to read a new installment in the "Roland 
beats Yamaha hands-down" series. It's as old as this board. Usually, 
it gets a firm reply from Yamaha people, but maybe those days are 
gone. But the issue of which sounds are better is hugely subjective. 
No one testimony should rule the day simply because it exists. I 
happen to like the TD-6 sounds and module better than the higher end 
Rolands, because of the way the samples are constructed. But I would 
hardly suggest that everybody will find the Roland better than the 
Yamaha in every, way, shape, or form. For instance, Yamaha has always 
won the "bang for buck" award, and has alway been more accessible for 
customer support.

How about it, all of you who have some experience with both Roland and 
Yamaha products? How do you respond to Chris' challenge?

Ed



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@...> wrote:

>
> Yeah, replacing the snare with the Roland meash head woulcertainly 
> make a difference with your drumming, just as long as they
> are compatible with each other. This I'm not sure about Nick.
> Cheers,
>          Chris.

Hi all:

I've personally never played an acoustic drumset where the heads 
felt like the mesh heads or rubber pads available on any e-drum. Of 
the different pads I've tried, I prefer the feel of the pads on the 
DTXtreme IIS. 

I don't view electronic keyboards as piano substitutes, neither do I 
view e-drums as an acoustic drumset substitute. E-drums are actually 
synthesizers set-up to be played like drums instead of a piano. An 
electronic keyboard, with its light keys, can't be played with the 
same technique one would use on a piano. Similarly, an e-drum can't 
be played like an acoustic kit. The touch must be lighter...the pad 
is merely a trigger and does not need to be played with the same 
force as an acoustic set. They are very much two separate playing 
techniques. You can just tap it...the sound will be there. I think 
then it is a matter of preference.

I find the mesh heads a bit too unrealistic. They are very 
forgiving, and I'm afraid cause drummers to develop lazy hands. I 
personally think the rubber pads are a good compromise. They are 
quiet, respond well, and if played with the right touch, are gentle 
on the joints.

As far as sounds go, again I must say that these kits, whether 
Roland or Yamaha, are not drum set substitutes. They are 
synthesizers. I've been very happy with the kits I've been able to 
design on my Yamaha DTX III and the DTXreme IIS. There really is no 
limit to the sounds one can create on these kits. I chose the 
DTXreme over the Roland because of the feel, sounds, price, sampler, 
expandability, and the support I get from Yamaha representatives.

Just my two cents worth.

Best Regards all,
John Anthony Martinez
www.johnanthonymartinez.com


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
>
> Nick,
> 
> It depends on your definition of "work."  Traditionally, Yamaha 
pads 
> have mated better with Yamaha electronics, and likewise on the 
Roland 
> side. Roland, however, usually accommodates Yamaha gum rubber 
better 
> that Yamaha does mesh heads, especially in the area of dynamic 
range.  
> If you're seriously considering a Roland brain, take one of your 
> Yamaha rubber pads to a Guitar Center or similar Roland outlet and 
> connect it with the TD-6V module to make your own assessment.
> 
> So far as mesh heads are concerned, superiority to rubber is not a 
> given.  The accuracy and feel of a mesh-head drum depends entirely 
on 
> which head is on it. The Roland heads always tended to be too 
springy 
> for many peoples' taste.  Hart's two-plies had far more champions 
> until Roland forced them from the market. Hart's single-ply 
> replacement might be worth a try if the Rolands don't do the 
trick. 
> Also, if you're not familiar with the pads in Yamaha's DTXtreme 
kit, 
> you should do yourself a favor a try them out before investing in 
a 
> mesh kit or snare. I personally have favored mesh for many years, 
but 
> the Xtreme pads are nothing like those that in the Xpress kits; 
they 
> have both give and feel. They are easily as playable and gentle on 
the 
> joints as Roland's stock meshes (as well as being quieter)
> 
> It's always entertaining to read a new installment in the "Roland 
> beats Yamaha hands-down" series. It's as old as this board. 
Usually, 
> it gets a firm reply from Yamaha people, but maybe those days are 
> gone. But the issue of which sounds are better is hugely 
subjective. 
> No one testimony should rule the day simply because it exists. I 
> happen to like the TD-6 sounds and module better than the higher 
end 
> Rolands, because of the way the samples are constructed. But I 
would 
> hardly suggest that everybody will find the Roland better than the 
> Yamaha in every, way, shape, or form. For instance, Yamaha has 
always 
> won the "bang for buck" award, and has alway been more accessible 
for 
> customer support.
> 
> How about it, all of you who have some experience with both Roland 
and 
> Yamaha products? How do you respond to Chris' challenge?
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, replacing the snare with the Roland meash head 
woulcertainly 

> > make a difference with your drumming, just as long as they
> > are compatible with each other. This I'm not sure about Nick.
> > Cheers,
> >          Chris.
>

John,

These are good points. Many people regard e-drums as more sui generis 
than as substitutes for acoustic drums. Nonetheless, e-drums are 
often used as substitutes for acoustic drums, and they have both 
advantages and liabilities in that regard. After all, standard e-kits 
are configured in the image of acoustic drums, and most of their 
samples derive from acoustic drums/cymbals/percussion. The fact that 
e-drums often require a different technique from their acoustic 
cousins hardly means that they can't substitute for them when need or 
convenience so dictate. The extent to which they fulfill this 
difficult mission, however, is dependent on how believable the sounds 
are, how authentic the response is, and how extensive the dynamic 
range is--usually not too good in the case of the typical rubber kits 
and their modules. 

I agree with you about the quality of the DTXtreme rubber pads. But 
not all mesh heads are too forgiving, even if they don't respond 
exactly like mylar or calfskin. I mentioned a couple of examples 
earlier. But electronic modules also have a range of accuracy in 
sound and sensitivity. The ddrum module, made by Clavia, though no 
longer young, or terribly efficient in current computing terms, has a 
dynamic range that easily approximates what "real" drums can do, 
mainly because the trigger section is analog, and its samples are 
pure, complex, and undigitized. In fact, its original purpose was to 
mimic acoustic drumkits/percussion; it has few pretenses to acting 
like a synth. On snares, it permits everthing from well-articulated 
soft press rolls, with no machine-gun effect, to mammmoth individual 
hits, according to the force exerted. Cymbal rolls and dynamics can 
also sound and feel much like those on acoustics. People only 
familiar wih the Yamaha and Roland modules, which in many other 
respects exceed the capabilities of the ddrum system, are often 
amazed at how well the ddrum4 and ddrum3 can approximate acoustic 
settings. Ddrum was sold to an American company that promises to 
create a more up to date ddrum5 module, but so far dedicated 
ddrummers are left with the 4th generation, which suffers from memory 
and kit-size limitations. 

I won't go into any more detail about the ddrum system, but I offer 
it only to make the case for electronics sometimes being able to 
occupy the same space as acoustics. Ddrum has always had its pro 
supporters--and for good reason.  

Ed

Ed,

You're a gentleman and a scholar.

I agree with everything you've said. I will admit, I use my DTXpress 
III on about 99% of my live gigs now, which range from straight-
ahead jazz to top-40 to electronica. I receive compliments just 
about every night on how "real" my kit sounds. For the most part my 
e-drums do serve as an acoustic drum set substitute (and my back 
loves me for it...my chiropractor, not so much...he doesn't see me 
quite as often as he used to). 

Once I figured out how to play my e-drums properly, how to downplay 
its limitations, and make good use of its strengths, I was able to 
convince many of my purist jazz friends that the e-drums would work 
on the gig.

Would you agree then that it's the musician and not the gear that 
ultimately makes the difference?

Cheers,
JAM

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
>
> John,
> 
> These are good points. Many people regard e-drums as more sui 
generis 
> than as substitutes for acoustic drums. Nonetheless, e-drums are 
> often used as substitutes for acoustic drums, and they have both 
> advantages and liabilities in that regard. After all, standard e-
kits 
> are configured in the image of acoustic drums, and most of their 
> samples derive from acoustic drums/cymbals/percussion. The fact 
that 
> e-drums often require a different technique from their acoustic 
> cousins hardly means that they can't substitute for them when need 
or 
> convenience so dictate. The extent to which they fulfill this 
> difficult mission, however, is dependent on how believable the 
sounds 
> are, how authentic the response is, and how extensive the dynamic 
> range is--usually not too good in the case of the typical rubber 
kits 
> and their modules. 
> 
> I agree with you about the quality of the DTXtreme rubber pads. 
But 
> not all mesh heads are too forgiving, even if they don't respond 
> exactly like mylar or calfskin. I mentioned a couple of examples 
> earlier. But electronic modules also have a range of accuracy in 
> sound and sensitivity. The ddrum module, made by Clavia, though no 
> longer young, or terribly efficient in current computing terms, 
has a 
> dynamic range that easily approximates what "real" drums can do, 
> mainly because the trigger section is analog, and its samples are 
> pure, complex, and undigitized. In fact, its original purpose was 
to 
> mimic acoustic drumkits/percussion; it has few pretenses to acting 
> like a synth. On snares, it permits everthing from well-
articulated 
> soft press rolls, with no machine-gun effect, to mammmoth 
individual 
> hits, according to the force exerted. Cymbal rolls and dynamics 
can 
> also sound and feel much like those on acoustics. People only 
> familiar wih the Yamaha and Roland modules, which in many other 
> respects exceed the capabilities of the ddrum system, are often 
> amazed at how well the ddrum4 and ddrum3 can approximate acoustic 
> settings. Ddrum was sold to an American company that promises to 
> create a more up to date ddrum5 module, but so far dedicated 
> ddrummers are left with the 4th generation, which suffers from 
memory 
> and kit-size limitations. 
> 
> I won't go into any more detail about the ddrum system, but I 
offer 

> it only to make the case for electronics sometimes being able to 
> occupy the same space as acoustics. Ddrum has always had its pro 
> supporters--and for good reason.  
> 
> Ed
>

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gruvjunky" <gruvjunky@...> wrote:
> Would you agree then that it's the musician and not the gear that 
> ultimately makes the difference?
> 
> Cheers,
> JAM

Hi JAM,

Good musicians certainly do a better job of making inferior gear 
sound better, if only because their playing helps to overshadow it. 
And many kinds of "good musician" exist. I'd even allow the 
definition to include drummers with an uncanny ability to put 
together a great-sounding kit, for live and/or recording purposes. 

I also agree with what seems to have been part of your original 
point, that many e-kits have limitations that prevent them from 
duplicating the sensitivity and tonal complexity of acoustic drums, 
which even impacts "good"  musicians negatively. Better players know 
how to keep these limitations from getting in the way, but  
electronic snares that miss nuances like ghost and grace notes, or 
variations in accents in rolls can be frustrating nonetheless. You 
can't really avoid this problem without spending quite a bit of 
money, and spending it judiciously. After a while, trying to avoid 
what doesn't work well can be tedious, to say the least.

I'd never heard a DTXpress kit recorded in a good studio until one of 
our regulars from this site's pioneering years sent me a CD on which 
he used his modified DTXpress. The nice thing about recording with 
electronic drums is the ability to avoid the time-consuming choice of 
mics, their positions, levels, etc. Going directly through the board 
also permits processing that the module cannot do, or do well enough, 
on sounds that may come across as flat and one-dimensional or worse. 
Nonetheless, with all the care that everyone took to make the 
DTXpress come across well on this particular recording, it still 
stuck out, if not like a sore thumb like a . . . well, an e-kit, 
especially since one the cuts featured a well-recorded acoustic kit. 
The ddrum module has no such trouble.

I'm willing to bet that your DTXpress III performs more suitably in a 
top-forty setting than in a strictly jazz one. I say this as someone 
who fully appreciates the value and flexibility of the DTXpress and 
similar Roland, Pintech, etc. products. The first time I laid my 
hands on the DTXpress I, after a brief and unpleasant experience with 
electronic precursors in the 1980s, I was wildly impressed. But an 
idea for an interesting thread might be to have people who use their 
e-kit mainly as a substitute for an acoustic kit to explain to what 
extent it works for them and to what extent it doesn't. 

Ed

I don't know how you could think for one minute that the mesh head 
is louder than rubber??? It's hollow!!! It can't be louder......
As I'm writing this, I'm hitting the mesh and rubber heads on my kit 
which is right next to my PC. Because the rubber pads are solid, of 
course they're going to be louder, and cause a small amount of 
vibration to go through the kit as well. 
If I could afford to buy an e-kit with mesh heads all round, I 
wouldn't hesitate.
They are far more quiet than rubber heads and are far more realistic 
in feel and in sound reproduction compared to rubber heads.

There is no comparison.

Chris.
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ostin67" <phil@...> wrote:
>
> The reason why I chose the DTX3sp over the Roland kit was because 
of 
> the mesh head! Yes it is good but I have a problem with noise and 
my 
> neighbours and I felt the rubber pad of the Yamaha was much 
quieter 
> than a mesh one !I did upgrade to the TP120 though and I have 
found 
> this to be excellent. I really like the pad and I don't find it at 
> problem at all. I bought my kit secondhand from Ebay and I have 
had 
> no problems so far ! The rest of the kit in my opinion is as good 
as 
> the Roland. I suppose it is all down to personal preference and 
lets 
> face it us drummers do tend to be a "little picky " over our 
kits ! 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@> wrote:
> >
> > Don't bother mate,
> > the Roland equivalent is far better!
> > As some of you might remember, I was constantly having
> > problems with my DTXIIIsp; the kick drum would 
> > randomly drop out all the time.
> > As a result, I returned it to the store where I purchased it,
> > they tested it and could not rectify the problem.
> > 
> > And since sales have dropped dramatically with this model,
> > Yamaha ain't shipping them out here anymore (Aus),
> > as everyone who is spending around the same money
> > as the DTXIIIsp are buying the Roland TD-6V instead.
> > It is no longer cost effective for Yamaha to do so. 
> > 
> > So, the drum store gave me the option to try out the equivalent 
of 
> > the DTXIIIsp and gave me a test drive of the Roland TD-6V,
> > (they just added another e-cymbal to the standard kit),
> > and I gotta say, if I'd known about this model before, I would 
of 
> > chosen it over the DTXIII any day!
> > 
> > The three rubber toms are far more realistic as far as feel goes
> > and having an e-snare with a mesh head not only feels better 
> > to play, it too is far more realistic and it also eradicates 
stick 
> > vibration which is such a major problem with rubber pad snare 
> drums,
> > (I had no joy using the Zildjian anti vibe sticks),
> > not to mention that they sound much better than the Yamaha kit.
> > 
> > There is no match between the two when it comes to sound quality,
> > that's the first thing I noticed. You have far more options with 
> the 
> > Roland and can achieve a more realistic sound when it comes to 
> > designing your own style of drum kit. 
> > 
> > I recommend strongly that you check out the Roland TD-6V
> > before you spend your hard earned on a Yamaha. They cost around 
> the 
> > same as each other, (I had them valued before I made the switch)
> > and you will definately get better value from the Roland,
> > it didn't take long for me to work that one out!
> > 
> > And another good thing (for me) is that Roland make these kits
> > in every country they distribute them to. Their factory is about 
> > 3kms from where I live and I can buy accessories directly from 
them
> > as well.
> > 
> > 10 points all round!
> > 
> > All the best,
> >               Chris.  
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Shivprakash_Nayar" 
> > <shivprakash_nayar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, 
> > > There are strong rumours that yamaha is introducing the 
DTXPRESS 

> > IV by 
> > > July-Aug this year, at least in Singapore where I'm based. 
> > > 
> > > Grapevine reports that production will start in June'06. Specs 
> > > unclear, though pricing reported to be marginally higher than 
> > current 
> > > DTXPRESS IIIS. Info sourced from multiple drum hardware shops, 
> > incl 
> > > Yamaha's showroom.
> > > 
> > > Does anybody else have any info?
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > >
> >
>

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know how you could think for one minute that the mesh head 
> is louder than rubber??? 

Chris,

In a comparison of strikes purely on the heads, mesh is a degree 
quieter than rubber.  But most drummers also hit the rims on mesh 
pads, at least from time to time, and they aren't so quiet. Some mesh 
heads offer rubber trim as an option to minimze stray noise; 
resourceful people often make their own. We've had a number of posts 
through the years describing how to apply the rubber, as well as where 
to buy it.

Ed

"But an idea for an interesting thread might be to have people who use 
their e-kit mainly as a substitute for an acoustic kit to explain to 
what extent it works for them and to what extent it doesn't."

Great idea.

I use mine for community theatre. It's especially good when working 
with non-mic'd actors. Also, being able to squeeze tympani, gongs, and 
a ton of percussion in a 4x6 space is invaluable - well worth the sonic 
limitations. I do use acoustic snare and cymbals though, and if this 
ever pays off enough to go ddrums, I probably will. (I'd love to lose 
the extra weight and set-up time this stuff adds.) Every other kit I've 
heard has limitations re cymbals and snare, so the idea of spending 
five times as much to get only 100 per cent improvement in quality just 
doesn't add up. Since I have the luxury to hold off, I'll wait til that 
ratio evens up a bit.
 
-joeR-

Good point Ed, my mesh snare has a rubber rim on it, as it also is a
seperate trigger as you most probably know. 
However, I did the test and you're right. Hitting the rim (when you 
mean to hit the snare) is louder than hitting the rubber pad.
Playing rimshot on the mesh head rim is not louder than rubber pad.
I still believe mesh heads are far more effective than rubber pads.

I found that tilting the snare slightly more towards myself
eliminates the problem of hitting the rim unintensionally.

Let alone, these are all good tips for those who are new to 
drumming, not just e-drums.




--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris . B." <mmhs@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know how you could think for one minute that the mesh 
head 
> > is louder than rubber??? 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> In a comparison of strikes purely on the heads, mesh is a degree 
> quieter than rubber.  But most drummers also hit the rims on mesh 
> pads, at least from time to time, and they aren't so quiet. Some 
mesh 
> heads offer rubber trim as an option to minimze stray noise; 
> resourceful people often make their own. We've had a number of 
posts 
> through the years describing how to apply the rubber, as well as 
where 

> to buy it.
> 
> Ed
>