Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi,

I am a fresh owner of a DTXPress IV module, that I'm trying to use
with my ddrum trigger. I realized to my disappointment that I can't
quite seem to get a rim shot sound out of the drum. Plugged into the
snare input, I get the head sound just fine, but I can only get the
rim shot and rim click sounds if I hit the actual shell of the trigger
unit pretty hard with the stick(gain set at the maximum level).

Now, I don't have much experience with electronic drums but I guess
this is because the Yamaha snare pads work with 1 piezo and 2 rim
switches. Nevertheless I was under the impression that it should work
with acoustic triggers as well.

Using one of the tom inputs I can get 2 distinct sounds from the head
and the rim, but there is no rim shot detection as far as I can tell
so I can't get the 3 sounds that I need. Is there a setting I'm
missing or is there a circuit I can build that can make the snare
input accommodate a dual piezo drum?

My other question concerns the FD8 hi-hat controller that I bought. I
investigated matters a little and it looked like it should work with a
cable that has a stereo plug at one end and a mono plug at the other,
with the ring of the stereo plug connected to the tip of the mono
plug(Yamaha modules supposedly use the signal on the ring/sleeve
pathway and Roland uses tip/sleeve).

I built such a cable, but I can't get the pedal to make a sound at
all. I tried the cable plugged both ways, and I tried a regular stereo
cable - nothing. Next thing I'm going to try is an inverse polarity
stereo cable, I guess.

Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "hccs_k" <hccs_k@...> wrote:
> Now, I don't have much experience with electronic drums but I guess
> this is because the Yamaha snare pads work with 1 piezo and 2 rim
> switches. Nevertheless I was under the impression that it should work
> with acoustic triggers as well.

I don't know much about ddrum triggers, but if it uses two piezos then
that is your problem.  There is a circuit in the files section which
"converts" two piezo signals into a piezo plus rim switch signal -
look under DTXpander.  I think there is also a 3 zone circuit there as
well (if not let me know and I will put one there).

> 
> Using one of the tom inputs I can get 2 distinct sounds from the head
> and the rim, but there is no rim shot detection as far as I can tell
> so I can't get the 3 sounds that I need. Is there a setting I'm
> missing or is there a circuit I can build that can make the snare
> input accommodate a dual piezo drum?

As far as I can see, only the ride, crash & snare inputs are
compatible with three zone pads on the DTXpress IV.

You could use a dual piezo pad by using two inputs. Maybe that is what
you have done with the toms - they are really only single inputs,
meant for two pads with one piezo each and no rim switch, but on one
stereo cable.  The DTXpress IV differs from the previous modules which
all had stereo (piezo + switch) type inputs for inputs 1-8 and then
9/10 on one connector for two separate piezos.

I think the Roland hihat controller works differently to the Yamaha
ones.  There are converters around to allow you to mix the makes up -
try Drumbalaya.

Keith.

> I don't know much about ddrum triggers, but if it uses two piezos then
> that is your problem.  There is a circuit in the files section which
> "converts" two piezo signals into a piezo plus rim switch signal -
> look under DTXpander.  I think there is also a 3 zone circuit there as
> well (if not let me know and I will put one there).

Thanks, I'll check that out.

> As far as I can see, only the ride, crash & snare inputs are
> compatible with three zone pads on the DTXpress IV.

Yes, I know. I don't actually have a 3 zone pad, I meant that I tried
the very same drum with the ddrum trigger on one of the tom
inputs(dual mono).

> You could use a dual piezo pad by using two inputs. Maybe that is what
> you have done with the toms - they are really only single inputs,
> meant for two pads with one piezo each and no rim switch, but on one
> stereo cable.

Just to clarify this, that is exactly what I did. This way I was able
to get 2 sounds(head and rim click) but no rim shot. I was wondering
whether I should be able to get a rim shot sound on these inputs as
well or not.

Anyway, I'm going to see what I can come up with. I'll bother you
again when I know more.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "hccs_k" <hccs_k@...> wrote:
> Just to clarify this, that is exactly what I did. This way I was able
> to get 2 sounds(head and rim click) but no rim shot. I was wondering
> whether I should be able to get a rim shot sound on these inputs as
> well or not.
> 

I cannot see how you could get 3 sounds from two piezos (at least not
with a Yamaha module) although I am prepared to be proven wrong!

Keith.

> I cannot see how you could get 3 sounds from two piezos (at least not
> with a Yamaha module) although I am prepared to be proven wrong!
> 
> Keith.

My theory was that the module would sense when the head and rim are
hit simultaneously, and play back a rim shot sound. I guess not.

Anyway, I am able to get all the sounds on the snare input by tapping
the trigger shell. Rim shot with a lighter tap, and a rim click with a
harder tap. It's just that the sensitivity is way too low (even with
the gain maxed out) to get it to sound when hitting the actual rim of
the drum. You don't suppose a simple amplifier of some sort could work?

The DTXpander diagram looks a bit puzzling to me, but I haven't had
the time to seriously look into it yet.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "hccs_k" <hccs_k@...> wrote:

> Anyway, I am able to get all the sounds on the snare input by tapping
> the trigger shell. Rim shot with a lighter tap, and a rim click with a
> harder tap. It's just that the sensitivity is way too low (even with
> the gain maxed out) to get it to sound when hitting the actual rim of
> the drum. You don't suppose a simple amplifier of some sort could work?

There is a method of using the "cross fade" to get different sounds
from a single pad.  A common use is to get a bell sound and a cymbal
sound from a single zone cymbal - the cymbal when you hit it gently,
the bell when you hit it hard.  I have used it to get the brush sound
on the snare when hit gently and a snare sound when hit hard.  You
could do a similar thing to get the rim shot.

Keith.