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Sonar and DTXpress II - instrument definition

Sonar and DTXpress II - instrument definition

2003-03-09 by Stephen Beaumont

After much trial and error, and a lot of frustration, I have managed to get an instrument definition put together for Sonar II. I imagine it will also work in Cakewalk. There are some weird things that happen if you select certain program numbers; the DTXpress brain goes into a loop situation that fills the midi buffer. Therefore do NOT select drumkits that are not named. I have tested the named ones and they all seem to be working, at least in my configuration.
I also send a SysEx message at the beginning of all my Sonar files to the DTXpress that sets it up ready to receive the program changes. This is simply a file that I sent to Sonar from the DTXpress, after I had set up all the parameters in the unit.
Will be interested to know if anyone has been able to improve upon this. I agree that it is amazing that neither Yamaha nor Sonar have come up with any definitions or Studioware.
Stephen

Re: Sonar and DTXpress II - instrument definition

2003-03-09 by wfaraoni

Hello Stephen: nice work, you obviously have a much better handle on 
this than I do. I spent a couple of hours today trying to get a drum 
map to work only to find out that you loose soundfont capability if 
you use a drum map. its one or the other!

 Now I have to ask you the particulars of getting it to work because 
the snare and kick are still out of wack for me even though I can 
emulate and record the rest of the sounds just like on the dtx. at 
least the toms and cymbals sound like what there supposed to instead 
of horns and whistles !!

what I did was load your instrument definition file to channel 10 of 
synth b of my audigy. which I used for output.

then I went into utility mode on the dtx and went to the dump page 
and dumped the system file to the bank 10 of the sysx interface in 
sonar. then I tried the user map instead.then I tried all the files.

I can select the various kits fine and the 4 I tested seemed to have 
that same incompatability.

I am using a creative audigy card, so I ran it on synth b or should 
I load it to a drum map?

anyway if you could provide a "step by step" for Dummies, You will 
be our hero of the year :)

this is definitely much closer than anything Ive been able to do.
I tried a bunch of other stuff but its not worth going into all of 
that because none of it worked.

Your efforts are GREATLY appreciated :)

Thanks Bill

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Beaumont" <SJB@I...> wrote:
> After much trial and error, and a lot of frustration, I have 
managed to get an instrument definition put together for Sonar II. I 
imagine it will also work in Cakewalk. There are some weird things 
that happen if you select certain program numbers; the DTXpress 
brain goes into a loop situation that fills the midi buffer. 
Therefore do NOT select drumkits that are not named. I have tested 
the named ones and they all seem to be working, at least in my 
configuration.
> 
> I also send a SysEx message at the beginning of all my Sonar files 
to the DTXpress that sets it up ready to receive the program 
changes. This is simply a file that I sent to Sonar from the 
DTXpress, after I had set up all the parameters in the unit.
> 
> Will be interested to know if anyone has been able to improve upon 
this. I agree that it is amazing that neither Yamaha nor Sonar have 
come up with any definitions or Studioware. 
> 
> Stephen

Re: Sonar and DTXpress II - instrument definition

2003-03-09 by stev1ebb

Glad this is working to some extent for you Bill. I am no expert - 
just hate being defeated by things like this and as my purchase of 
the DTXpress was mainly for recoding in Sonar, I had to get it 
working somehow!

Anyway, this is what I do. First check that the DTX is associated 
with the midi output and channel 10 in the "define instruments" 
section. I use a Roland UA-100 Audio Canvas which has two midi 
ports. I have my synth associated with the 16 channels of MIDI 1 and 
have assigned all of MIDI 2 to the DTXpress. If you only have one 
midi port, then you would assign channel 10 to the DTX and 
everything else to your other midi gear.

Then in track view, I set "IN" to "MIDI OMNI", "OUT" to the midi 
port I am using (in my case 2). I set the "CH" to channel 10 (which 
then shows "DTXpress") and "BNK" to "BANK" (NOT to GM - I think this 
is important as otherwise you will get GM sounds when you strike a 
pad). I select the drum kit I want by clicking the "PCH" arrow and 
all the drumkits show up. 

I am getting all the sounds (including the kick and snare) to sound 
and I can change them during playback (and when the sequence is not 
running) without any problem. I don't think the drum kits with midi 
sequences work in this but I never use them so for me it is not an 
issue. Perhaps somewone can let us know how that can be achieved. 
You do have to ensure that the track is "in focus" when you record 
the drums, or you will get other instruments "showing through" the 
sound. Also, I have only managed to achieve success with the input 
set to MIDI OMNI.

I know there is a way to associate particular program change numbers 
with particular kits within the DTXpress, but the instrument 
definition I attached on my last post seems to do the trick, at 
least for what I want it to do.

I hope that these pointers work for you. I am not familiar with the 
Audigy Card and have not played around with drum maps, but with 
luck, these settings should give you what you are looking to achieve 
which is really just being able to select kits from the computer, 
record them and play them back in the mix. Life should not be this 
complicated! I am just glad I have it working to a level that suits 
my needs.

Updates and more info would be great. Anyone played around with 
Studioware yet?

Good luck Bill with this....let me know how you make out :)

Stephen

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "wfaraoni" <wfaraoni@y...> wrote:
> Hello Stephen: nice work, you obviously have a much better handle 
on 
> this than I do. I spent a couple of hours today trying to get a 
drum 
> map to work only to find out that you loose soundfont capability 
if 
> you use a drum map. its one or the other!
> 
>  Now I have to ask you the particulars of getting it to work 
because 
> the snare and kick are still out of wack for me even though I can 
> emulate and record the rest of the sounds just like on the dtx. at 
> least the toms and cymbals sound like what there supposed to 
instead 
> of horns and whistles !!
> 
> what I did was load your instrument definition file to channel 10 
of 
> synth b of my audigy. which I used for output.
> 
> then I went into utility mode on the dtx and went to the dump page 
> and dumped the system file to the bank 10 of the sysx interface in 
> sonar. then I tried the user map instead.then I tried all the 
files.
> 
> I can select the various kits fine and the 4 I tested seemed to 
have 
> that same incompatability.
> 
> I am using a creative audigy card, so I ran it on synth b or 
should 
> I load it to a drum map?
> 
> anyway if you could provide a "step by step" for Dummies, You will 
> be our hero of the year :)
> 
> this is definitely much closer than anything Ive been able to do.
> I tried a bunch of other stuff but its not worth going into all of 
> that because none of it worked.
> 
> Your efforts are GREATLY appreciated :)
> 
> Thanks Bill
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Beaumont" <SJB@I...> 
wrote:
> > After much trial and error, and a lot of frustration, I have 
> managed to get an instrument definition put together for Sonar II. 
I 
> imagine it will also work in Cakewalk. There are some weird things 
> that happen if you select certain program numbers; the DTXpress 
> brain goes into a loop situation that fills the midi buffer. 
> Therefore do NOT select drumkits that are not named. I have tested 
> the named ones and they all seem to be working, at least in my 
> configuration.
> > 
> > I also send a SysEx message at the beginning of all my Sonar 
files 
> to the DTXpress that sets it up ready to receive the program 
> changes. This is simply a file that I sent to Sonar from the 
> DTXpress, after I had set up all the parameters in the unit.
> > 
> > Will be interested to know if anyone has been able to improve 
upon 
> this. I agree that it is amazing that neither Yamaha nor Sonar 
have 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> come up with any definitions or Studioware. 
> > 
> > Stephen

Re: Sonar and DTXpress II - instrument definition

2003-03-09 by wfaraoni

Stephen; thanks for the reply, I am doing all the same things you 
are with regard to the instrument definition file. So the problem 
must be with the Sysex portion. heres is what I am doing for that.
 I open the sysx in Sonar from the view panel.
I highlight bank 10 then hit the red arrow.
I select You start dump on instrument.
At the Dtxpress I go into utility > midi bulk dump > fmt =

at that point I've tried, user map- or--system data  -or-  all data 
there
.. depending on which one you choose the amount , in bytes varies.  
which one are you using.. are you using bank 10 there?
after that I hit done.

I am very frustrated as well! I just bought this thing for the same 
reasons as you and Ive spent about 7 hours trying to get this 
feature to work. By the way, if you visit nowhereradio.com and 
search wfaraoni, Ive posted some singles I'm working on up there and 
one of my biggest problems has been getting a decent drum track. Are 
you posting anything of yours?

Have a great day
Bill
--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "stev1ebb" <SJB@I...> wrote:
> Glad this is working to some extent for you Bill. I am no expert - 
> just hate being defeated by things like this and as my purchase of 
> the DTXpress was mainly for recoding in Sonar, I had to get it 
> working somehow!
> 
> Anyway, this is what I do. First check that the DTX is associated 
> with the midi output and channel 10 in the "define instruments" 
> section. I use a Roland UA-100 Audio Canvas which has two midi 
> ports. I have my synth associated with the 16 channels of MIDI 1 
and 
> have assigned all of MIDI 2 to the DTXpress. If you only have one 
> midi port, then you would assign channel 10 to the DTX and 
> everything else to your other midi gear.
> 
> Then in track view, I set "IN" to "MIDI OMNI", "OUT" to the midi 
> port I am using (in my case 2). I set the "CH" to channel 10 
(which 
> then shows "DTXpress") and "BNK" to "BANK" (NOT to GM - I think 
this 
> is important as otherwise you will get GM sounds when you strike a 
> pad). I select the drum kit I want by clicking the "PCH" arrow and 
> all the drumkits show up. 
> 
> I am getting all the sounds (including the kick and snare) to 
sound 
> and I can change them during playback (and when the sequence is 
not 
> running) without any problem. I don't think the drum kits with 
midi 
> sequences work in this but I never use them so for me it is not an 
> issue. Perhaps somewone can let us know how that can be achieved. 
> You do have to ensure that the track is "in focus" when you record 
> the drums, or you will get other instruments "showing through" the 
> sound. Also, I have only managed to achieve success with the input 
> set to MIDI OMNI.
> 
> I know there is a way to associate particular program change 
numbers 
> with particular kits within the DTXpress, but the instrument 
> definition I attached on my last post seems to do the trick, at 
> least for what I want it to do.
> 
> I hope that these pointers work for you. I am not familiar with 
the 
> Audigy Card and have not played around with drum maps, but with 
> luck, these settings should give you what you are looking to 
achieve 
> which is really just being able to select kits from the computer, 
> record them and play them back in the mix. Life should not be this 
> complicated! I am just glad I have it working to a level that 
suits 
> my needs.
> 
> Updates and more info would be great. Anyone played around with 
> Studioware yet?
> 
> Good luck Bill with this....let me know how you make out :)
> 
> Stephen
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "wfaraoni" <wfaraoni@y...> wrote:
> > Hello Stephen: nice work, you obviously have a much better 
handle 
> on 
> > this than I do. I spent a couple of hours today trying to get a 
> drum 
> > map to work only to find out that you loose soundfont capability 
> if 
> > you use a drum map. its one or the other!
> > 
> >  Now I have to ask you the particulars of getting it to work 
> because 
> > the snare and kick are still out of wack for me even though I 
can 
> > emulate and record the rest of the sounds just like on the dtx. 
at 
> > least the toms and cymbals sound like what there supposed to 
> instead 
> > of horns and whistles !!
> > 
> > what I did was load your instrument definition file to channel 
10 
> of 
> > synth b of my audigy. which I used for output.
> > 
> > then I went into utility mode on the dtx and went to the dump 
page 
> > and dumped the system file to the bank 10 of the sysx interface 
in 
> > sonar. then I tried the user map instead.then I tried all the 
> files.
> > 
> > I can select the various kits fine and the 4 I tested seemed to 
> have 
> > that same incompatability.
> > 
> > I am using a creative audigy card, so I ran it on synth b or 
> should 
> > I load it to a drum map?
> > 
> > anyway if you could provide a "step by step" for Dummies, You 
will 
> > be our hero of the year :)
> > 
> > this is definitely much closer than anything Ive been able to do.
> > I tried a bunch of other stuff but its not worth going into all 
of 
> > that because none of it worked.
> > 
> > Your efforts are GREATLY appreciated :)
> > 
> > Thanks Bill
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Beaumont" <SJB@I...> 
> wrote:
> > > After much trial and error, and a lot of frustration, I have 
> > managed to get an instrument definition put together for Sonar 
II. 
> I 
> > imagine it will also work in Cakewalk. There are some weird 
things 
> > that happen if you select certain program numbers; the DTXpress 
> > brain goes into a loop situation that fills the midi buffer. 
> > Therefore do NOT select drumkits that are not named. I have 
tested 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > the named ones and they all seem to be working, at least in my 
> > configuration.
> > > 
> > > I also send a SysEx message at the beginning of all my Sonar 
> files 
> > to the DTXpress that sets it up ready to receive the program 
> > changes. This is simply a file that I sent to Sonar from the 
> > DTXpress, after I had set up all the parameters in the unit.
> > > 
> > > Will be interested to know if anyone has been able to improve 
> upon 
> > this. I agree that it is amazing that neither Yamaha nor Sonar 
> have 
> > come up with any definitions or Studioware. 
> > > 
> > > Stephen

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