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[DTXpress] the future...

[DTXpress] the future...

2000-07-12 by Giles Hearn

Sanctum's raised an interesting point here. The fact
that e-drums don't sell very well is due to their lack
of realism and from competition by machines and
samplers. I agree. But things have come a long way -
we all remember those ugly Simmons pads from the 80's.
The DTXpress sounds would have been unimaginable back
then. In another 10 years, we should be getting near
to acoustic drums. The biggest problem is not the
playing surface, but in the dynamics and resonance of
real drums. A snare drum will sound different every
time you hit it. A cymbal is even more complex since
it may still be vibrating when you hit it again,
causing an additive effect. e-drums are nowhere near
this level yet, but the memory technology to store all
these variations exists today. I'd joyfully give up
all the presets and songs on the DTXpress if I could
have just one massive preset of a "real" acoustic kit.
This has been done with Gigasampler/GigaPiano. They
sampled every note on the piano at every concievable
volume and came up with something nearly 2Gb big. But
it sounds amazing. Almost like the real thing.
Why can't this be done with drums?
I realise it would take about 10Gb to sample 90% of a
drumkit's personality, but it would be worth it - and
you can buy 10Gb for the price of a decent night out
these days...

What do you think about the future of e-drums. Will we
ever see the death of the acoustic??

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RE: [DTXpress] the future...

2000-07-12 by sanctum@saqnet.co.uk

Hey Giles,
I know you live fairly close to me, so if you want to pursue this idea of a gigadrum module, let me know.
Having played electronic drums back in the early nineties with an old alesis brain and now in 2000 with a DTXpress (budget brain!) I know just how far we've come. I think the biggest differential between e-drums and e-guitars though is that an electronic guitar is just an input source, any effects you want come from an effects box as a seperate entity. I know subtle changes can be gained from an e-guitar by changing between pickups etc, and that most amps have a nice row of twidly nobs, but the real heart of an electric guitar is the pedalboard.
Why aren't drums the same?
Let's have a few basic kit setups in a brain unit, each with a very wide response, and then be able to layer effects over the top from a different source. Electronic guitars are so simple, it amazes me that e-drum technology hasn't gone the same route.


----------
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: 	Giles Hearn
Sent: 	Wednesday, July 12, 2000 4:15 PM
To: 	DTXpress@egroups.com
Subject: 	[DTXpress] the future...

Sanctum's raised an interesting point here. The fact
that e-drums don't sell very well is due to their lack
of realism and from competition by machines and
samplers. I agree. But things have come a long way -
we all remember those ugly Simmons pads from the 80's.
The DTXpress sounds would have been unimaginable back
then. In another 10 years, we should be getting near
to acoustic drums. The biggest problem is not the
playing surface, but in the dynamics and resonance of
real drums. A snare drum will sound different every
time you hit it. A cymbal is even more complex since
it may still be vibrating when you hit it again,
causing an additive effect. e-drums are nowhere near
this level yet, but the memory technology to store all
these variations exists today. I'd joyfully give up
all the presets and songs on the DTXpress if I could
have just one massive preset of a "real" acoustic kit.
This has been done with Gigasampler/GigaPiano. They
sampled every note on the piano at every concievable
volume and came up with something nearly 2Gb big. But
it sounds amazing. Almost like the real thing.
Why can't this be done with drums?
I realise it would take about 10Gb to sample 90% of a
drumkit's personality, but it would be worth it - and
you can buy 10Gb for the price of a decent night out
these days...

What do you think about the future of e-drums. Will we
ever see the death of the acoustic??

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Re: [DTXpress] the future...

2000-07-12 by Ben Hall

Giles Hearn <giles_hearn@...> wrote:

> What do you think about the future of e-drums. Will we
> ever see the death of the acoustic??

It's going to have to be some varient of physical modelling, once it becomes
powerful enough, I think.

A full kit that uses a pretty complete model of all drums and cymbals should
start to give us the sort of realism we'd really like.

V-Drums are going in the right direction - they are not there yet, but the
possibilities are there.

I don't think multisampling is the answer really - sure, you can definitely
get some incredible kits by using huge multisamples, but it'll always feel
"not-quite" like the real thing. You need a (virtual) model that can not
only simulate how a particular drum works in isolation, but also how it
works in relation to the rest of the kit.

Still, I'm happy to hit what I've got in the meantime..! :)

Ben Hall
www.benhall.co.uk
DPS12 FAQ, Wavestation Info & Sounds

Re: [DTXpress] the future...

2000-07-13 by pdk

Interesting to hear all this hoopla about making e-drums sound like real
drums, and the comparison to the electric guitar.

In fact the electric guitar took off precisely because it didn't sound like
an acoustic. It sounded cool in its own right.

Why can't the same happen with e-drums? Well, I guess the problem is that
even I, proud DTX owner, still think purely electronic drum sounds...sound
like dog dirt.

Try listening to an old Eurythmics album. Great songs forever dated (and
ruined) by Dave Stewart's ham-fisted way with a beat box. I'd be great to
remix those tunes with a real kit, played by a real drummer.

=========================================================================

pete

Hot Java, Cool Tunes: Visit Café Pierre www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/4024/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Giles Hearn <giles_hearn@...>
> Reply-To: DTXpress@egroups.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
> To: DTXpress@egroups.com
> Subject: [DTXpress] the future...
> 
> Sanctum's raised an interesting point here. The fact
> that e-drums don't sell very well is due to their lack
> of realism and from competition by machines and
> samplers. I agree. But things have come a long way -
> we all remember those ugly Simmons pads from the 80's.
> The DTXpress sounds would have been unimaginable back
> then. In another 10 years, we should be getting near
> to acoustic drums. The biggest problem is not the
> playing surface, but in the dynamics and resonance of
> real drums. A snare drum will sound different every
> time you hit it. A cymbal is even more complex since
> it may still be vibrating when you hit it again,
> causing an additive effect. e-drums are nowhere near
> this level yet, but the memory technology to store all
> these variations exists today. I'd joyfully give up
> all the presets and songs on the DTXpress if I could
> have just one massive preset of a "real" acoustic kit.
> This has been done with Gigasampler/GigaPiano. They
> sampled every note on the piano at every concievable
> volume and came up with something nearly 2Gb big. But
> it sounds amazing. Almost like the real thing.
> Why can't this be done with drums?
> I realise it would take about 10Gb to sample 90% of a
> drumkit's personality, but it would be worth it - and
> you can buy 10Gb for the price of a decent night out
> these days...
> 
> What do you think about the future of e-drums. Will we
> ever see the death of the acoustic??
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to know what movie to rent tonight?
> Come to FirstLook.com and preview the newest video and DVD releases!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6695/12/_/643449/_/963414950/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 
>

Re: [DTXpress] the future...

2000-07-17 by Giles Hearn

"Great songs forever dated (and
ruined) by Dave Stewart's ham-fisted way with a beat
box. I'd be great to
remix those tunes with a real kit, played by a real
drummer...."
 -then again, I heard "Is this Love" by Whitesnake
(1987) on the radio the other day and couldn't believe
how much reverb they'd put on the snare. It sounded so
crap, it was laughable. But back then it was OK, I
guess.
The problem with e-drums, as you point out, is that
they can date so easily. With an elctronic kit that
was near indistinguishable from a real kit - the sound
would never date.
Maybe the manufacturers aren't interested in building
an acoustic replacement - nobody would ever upgrade!

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[DTXpress] Just curious...

2000-07-25 by pdk

I see that Roland it touting a new "Studio Set with TD-8" on their web site.
Looks more like a repackaging of components designed to compete directly
with either the Yammy Xpress or DS9/10. Anybody know what the Studio Set is
selling for?

=========================================================================

pete

Hot Java, Cool Tunes: Visit Café Pierre www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/4024/

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