Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, M E <maxplaysdrums@y...> wrote:
> Has anyone here used the Alesis pro triggering module? It looks 
pretty powerful- stacks of voices, and 6 outputs. 

Max,

The DM5 has been getting fair to middling reviews on the board 
lately, and the DM Pro is flat out a better module. It's a 20 bit 
engine (Xpress is 16; DM5 18) that can stack four notes at a time. It 
has sixteen inputs, six stereo outputs, four effects, a slot for 8 MB 
flash cards to add samples, and an input for auxiliary sources like a 
CD player. The hat input is fully variable--unlike the DM5, which is 
a switch type, and the HH65, which adds a middle position only to 
open and closed; you'd have to get a new controller to take 
advantage  of it (the Yamaha HH80 may need a polarity adaptor). In 
fact, were it not for the absence of stereo capability and an onboard 
sequencer (if that matters), it would probably take over as the main 
module for Xpress owners (listing for nearly twice as much, though 
the street price has dropped considerably since the company fell on 
hard times). 

Peter Hart seems to have evidence that the Pro's reliability is 
spotty. If you can get a deal on one of these and can't find a 
discontinued Xtreme, don't want to wait for the Xtreme's replacement, 
and don't want a Roland TD10 or 8 now, it is certainly a viable 
higher end option. But, as always, no matter what kind of 
recommendation anyone may give, the best thing that you can do is try 
it out yourself under controlled conditions. 

Personally, if I were going to spend $500 to $600 on a module, I 
wouldn't buy anything that didn't please me completely, especially 
with new modules about to be released and others currently on the 
market that surpass it in certain respects. Re-sale value for one of 
these will not get higher. Make sure you get a deal--under $500 new 
and much less used.

Ed

Ed.

> Ed wrote: "the HH65, which adds a middle position only to 
> open and closed"
> 
> 
> Ed,
> 
> During my surgical work on the HH65 this past weekend, the HH65 has more
> than open/mid/close.
> 
> The curved rubber pad that gets depress has four notches on the bottom of
> it and can create five distint sounds. (no contact, notch 1,2,3,4). Just
> from pressing the footpedal it was hard to hear them, but by striking the
> fsr directly with my finger and tapping on the hihat pad, it became quite
> clear.
> 
> Sound 1 (pad: fully open) = no contact with the fsr
> Sound 1a (rim: fully open = no contact with the fsr 
> 
> Sound 2 (pad: fully open sound, with a tick sound added) = first notches
> makes contact with the fsr
> Sound 2a (rim: fully open sound, with a tick sound added) = first notches
> makes contact with the fsr
> 
> 
> Sound 3 (pad: delay decreases on open sound, with a tick sound) = second
> notch makes contact with the fsr
> Sound 3a (rim: delay decreases on open sound, with a tick sound) = second
> notch makes contact with the fsr
> 
> Sound 4 (pad: mostly-closed sound,plus louder tick sound) = third notch
> makes contact with fsr
> Sound 4a (rim: mostly-closed sound,plus louder tick sound) = third notch
> makes contact with fsr
> 
> Sound 5 (pad: completely closed sound) = fourth notch makes contact with
> fsr
> Sound 5a (rim: completely closed sound) = fourth notch makes contact with
> fsr
> 
> Sound 6 (foot stomp)= fourth notch pressed and held
> Sound 7 (foot splash) = fourth notch pressed and released immediately
> 
> So does the HH80A have a continuous fsr ribbon that allows for fully
> variable sensor or something else?
> 
> OGD
> 
> 
> 
 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> > During my surgical work on the HH65 this past weekend, the HH65 
has more
> > than open/mid/close.
> > 
> > The curved rubber pad that gets depress has four notches on the 
bottom of
> > it and can create five distint sounds. (no contact, notch 
1,2,3,4). Just
> > from pressing the footpedal it was hard to hear them, but by 
striking the
> > fsr directly with my finger and tapping on the hihat pad, it 
became quite
> > clear.
> > 

OGD

That's really interesting. What does the literature for the HH65 say? 
Is there any indication that the 65 surpasses the 60 in available 
sounds? As I recall, the 60 explicitly got only 3 distincts sounds, 
no bones about it, though the module is capable of more. Could there 
be something mechanical that keeps the pedal from engaging every 
notch even though you can do it by hand? In other words, could the 
notched rubber pad be the same in all models, whereas the mechanics 
of the pedal are more finely tuned? That might make sense from a 
manufacturing standpoint, though I can't envision either how it would 
be done or the result for the HH80 as satisfying the description 
of "fully variable."  My gut tells me that the HH80A is not notched 
at all, working on a continuous resistor, which would mean that the 
65 is a distinct improvement on the 60, at least theoretically.

The Visu-lite hi hat controller for which Tom Pickard made the design 
is based on the HH80A, which is advertised as fully variable. But the 
fact is, the actual range of variability on the Visu-lite suggests a 
hat that does not have a large physical range of motion, which works 
for me. So again, it's hard to tell how many actual positions the 
HH80 might have if it's based on notches. The Visu-lite works on a 
sort of dimmer-switch principle, in which the pulling of a metal cord 
elicits from the module the range of open to closed, which would 
suggest that its precedent was continuous rather than notched. But I 
ain't no electrical engineer.

Ed

> Ed wrote: "That's really interesting. What does the literature for the
> HH65 say? 
> Is there any indication that the 65 surpasses the 60 in available 
> sounds? As I recall, the 60 explicitly got only 3 distincts sounds, 
> no bones about it, though the module is capable of more. Could there 
> be something mechanical that keeps the pedal from engaging every 
> notch even though you can do it by hand?"
> 
> Ed,
> 
> If you look closely at the photos, the white cloth the protects the fsr
> has some dark lines on it where the notched rubber pad makes contact with
> it (four lines). There are physical barriers between the notch contact
> points on the fsr. Hence the five sounds (no contact, contact at 1,2,3,4
> location). Maybe someone could open up a HH60 to see if it is of the same
> construction as the HH65. 
> 
> As far as the HH80A, has anybody tried this with the DTXpressII to see if
> it is in fact fully variable, as oppose to just picking up the five set
> points?  (Time for an email to Yamaha tech folks unless someone knows for
> sure.)
> 
> I guess the real question is, what is the module capable of reading, five
> set points or fully variable?
> 
> OGD
 
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I am certain my HH60 has more than one sound in between open and 
closed. It all occurs within a very narrow movement range. It takes 
some adjusting to get it usable for individual playing style, But I 
can coax a very slightly open sound, to a more open sound, even more, 
and fully open.I don't know how many exactly,but it is certainly more 
variable than just open, mid, and closed!
Scott

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> > Ed wrote: "the HH65, which adds a middle position only to 
> > open and closed"
> > 
> > 
> > Ed,
> > 
> > During my surgical work on the HH65 this past weekend, the HH65 
has more
> > than open/mid/close.
> > 
> > The curved rubber pad that gets depress has four notches on the 
bottom of
> > it and can create five distint sounds. (no contact, notch 
1,2,3,4). Just
> > from pressing the footpedal it was hard to hear them, but by 
striking the
> > fsr directly with my finger and tapping on the hihat pad, it 
became quite
> > clear.
> > 
> > Sound 1 (pad: fully open) = no contact with the fsr
> > Sound 1a (rim: fully open = no contact with the fsr 
> > 
> > Sound 2 (pad: fully open sound, with a tick sound added) = first 
notches
> > makes contact with the fsr
> > Sound 2a (rim: fully open sound, with a tick sound added) = first 
notches
> > makes contact with the fsr
> > 
> > 
> > Sound 3 (pad: delay decreases on open sound, with a tick sound) = 
second
> > notch makes contact with the fsr
> > Sound 3a (rim: delay decreases on open sound, with a tick sound) = 
second
> > notch makes contact with the fsr
> > 
> > Sound 4 (pad: mostly-closed sound,plus louder tick sound) = third 
notch
> > makes contact with fsr
> > Sound 4a (rim: mostly-closed sound,plus louder tick sound) = third 
notch
> > makes contact with fsr
> > 
> > Sound 5 (pad: completely closed sound) = fourth notch makes 
contact with
> > fsr
> > Sound 5a (rim: completely closed sound) = fourth notch makes 
contact with
> > fsr
> > 
> > Sound 6 (foot stomp)= fourth notch pressed and held
> > Sound 7 (foot splash) = fourth notch pressed and released 
immediately
> > 
> > So does the HH80A have a continuous fsr ribbon that allows for 
fully
> > variable sensor or something else?
> > 
> > OGD
> > 
> > 
> > 
>  
> 
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****
> The information transmitted herewith is sensitive information 
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> for use to the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the 
reader
> of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
notified that
> any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or 
other
> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in 
error,
> please contact the sender and delete the material from your 
computer.
> 
> 
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__
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "hairytrigger" <artifax@i...> wrote:
> I am certain my HH60 has more than one sound in between open and 
> closed. It all occurs within a very narrow movement range. It takes 
> some adjusting to get it usable for individual playing style, But I 
> can coax a very slightly open sound, to a more open sound, even 
more, 
> and fully open.I don't know how many exactly,but it is certainly 
more 
> variable than just open, mid, and closed!

Scott,

This is definitely getting interesting. The original literature for 
the HH60 specified that it was capable of fully open, half-open, and 
fully closed (here's a link to it: 
http://www.yamahamusic.co.uk/products/drums/electronic_dtx/DTXPRESS.as
p?sectionid=42). It won't be the first time that the Yamaha's product 
literature was wrong, but usually it's a matter of getting less than 
what is advertised rather than getting more. Someone's got to open 
one of these things up.

Ed

Yeah,
I'm curious as hell now. I will bring mine home and look into it.
But,  I will be gone for a week, so it won't be right away.
Scott

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" 
<liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "hairytrigger" <artifax@i...> 
wrote:
> > I am certain my HH60 has more than one sound in between open and 
> > closed. It all occurs within a very narrow movement range. It 
takes 
> > some adjusting to get it usable for individual playing style, But 
I 
> > can coax a very slightly open sound, to a more open sound, even 
> more, 
> > and fully open.I don't know how many exactly,but it is certainly 
> more 
> > variable than just open, mid, and closed!
> 
> Scott,
> 
> This is definitely getting interesting. The original literature for 
> the HH60 specified that it was capable of fully open, half-open, and 
> fully closed (here's a link to it: 
> 
http://www.yamahamusic.co.uk/products/drums/electronic_dtx/DTXPRESS.as
> p?sectionid=42). It won't be the first time that the Yamaha's 
product 

> literature was wrong, but usually it's a matter of getting less than 
> what is advertised rather than getting more. Someone's got to open 
> one of these things up.
> 
> Ed