Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

anyone doing this ?

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
<gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> anyone doing this ?

DTXpressII?

Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.

Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes on the 
same channel?

Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices each you 
will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

i would like to have control over each drum in the kit so i can 
tweak panning, effects, EQ, etc.

i might end up doing it in groups like:
cymbals on one track
toms on one track
kick snare and HH each get a track of their own.

that's what i'm thinking.











--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > anyone doing this ?
> 
> DTXpressII?
> 
> Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
> You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.
> 
> Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes on 
the 
> same channel?
> 
> Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices 
each you 
> will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

What you are trying to achieve is having each drum sound (or groups 
of sounds) on different audio tracks. This is very different from 
assigning a different MIDI channel to each sound.

MIDI channels do not convey any actual sound - only information such 
as what note was played, how hard it was played, how long the 
duration was etc..

I'm not sure how many audio outputs the dtxpress module has (I 
presume 2 for stereo) but if you were to record your performance into 
a sequencer and then mute various sounds at playback time, you could 
eventually build up a multitrack audio performance with each of the 
sounds on different audio channels as you desire. You would need an 
external recording device, either analog or digital to accomplish 
this.

Hope this isn't too confusing.

Nigel




--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
<gollywillickers@y...> wrote:

> 
> 
> i would like to have control over each drum in the kit so i can 
> tweak panning, effects, EQ, etc.
> 
> i might end up doing it in groups like:
> cymbals on one track
> toms on one track
> kick snare and HH each get a track of their own.
> 
> that's what i'm thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > anyone doing this ?
> > 
> > DTXpressII?
> > 
> > Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
> > You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.
> > 
> > Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes on 
> the 
> > same channel?
> > 
> > Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices 
> each you 
> > will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

well, i'll be working in ProTools on a mac. i can record audio and midi.

the plan is roughly this:

RECORD the MIDI
MIDI TRACK 1 = Kick
MIDI TRACK 2 = Snare
MIDI TRACK 3 = HH
MIDI TRACK 4 = Toms
MIDI TRACK 5 = Cymbals

HAVE the recorded MIDI trigger the DTXpress or some SAMPLED DRUMS
Record the AUDIO tracks one pass at a time

AUDIO TRACK 6 = Kick
AUDIO TRACK 7 = Snare
AUDIO TRACK 8 = HH
AUDIO TRACK 9 = Toms
AUDIO TRACK10 = Cymbals

this way i can isolate and custom EQ the Kick, Snare, and HH while custom 
panning the Toms, and adding some special Reverb wash to the Cymbals.











--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel Kirkby" <nigel@i...> wrote:

> What you are trying to achieve is having each drum sound (or groups 
> of sounds) on different audio tracks. This is very different from 
> assigning a different MIDI channel to each sound.
> 
> MIDI channels do not convey any actual sound - only information such 
> as what note was played, how hard it was played, how long the 
> duration was etc..
> 
> I'm not sure how many audio outputs the dtxpress module has (I 
> presume 2 for stereo) but if you were to record your performance into 
> a sequencer and then mute various sounds at playback time, you could 
> eventually build up a multitrack audio performance with each of the 
> sounds on different audio channels as you desire. You would need an 
> external recording device, either analog or digital to accomplish 
> this.
> 
> Hope this isn't too confusing.
> 
> Nigel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > i would like to have control over each drum in the kit so i can 
> > tweak panning, effects, EQ, etc.
> > 
> > i might end up doing it in groups like:
> > cymbals on one track
> > toms on one track
> > kick snare and HH each get a track of their own.
> > 
> > that's what i'm thinking.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > > anyone doing this ?
> > > 
> > > DTXpressII?
> > > 
> > > Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
> > > You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.
> > > 
> > > Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes on 
> > the 
> > > same channel?
> > > 
> > > Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices 
> > each you 
> > > will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

I'd recommend recording the toms and cymbals in stereo - the others 
should be fine in mono.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
<gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> well, i'll be working in ProTools on a mac. i can record audio and 
midi.
> 
> the plan is roughly this:
> 
> RECORD the MIDI
> MIDI TRACK 1 = Kick
> MIDI TRACK 2 = Snare
> MIDI TRACK 3 = HH
> MIDI TRACK 4 = Toms
> MIDI TRACK 5 = Cymbals
> 
> HAVE the recorded MIDI trigger the DTXpress or some SAMPLED DRUMS
> Record the AUDIO tracks one pass at a time
> 
> AUDIO TRACK 6 = Kick
> AUDIO TRACK 7 = Snare
> AUDIO TRACK 8 = HH
> AUDIO TRACK 9 = Toms
> AUDIO TRACK10 = Cymbals
> 
> this way i can isolate and custom EQ the Kick, Snare, and HH while 
custom 
> panning the Toms, and adding some special Reverb wash to the 
Cymbals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel Kirkby" <nigel@i...> wrote:
> > What you are trying to achieve is having each drum sound (or 
groups 
> > of sounds) on different audio tracks. This is very different from 
> > assigning a different MIDI channel to each sound.
> > 
> > MIDI channels do not convey any actual sound - only information 
such 
> > as what note was played, how hard it was played, how long the 
> > duration was etc..
> > 
> > I'm not sure how many audio outputs the dtxpress module has (I 
> > presume 2 for stereo) but if you were to record your performance 
into 
> > a sequencer and then mute various sounds at playback time, you 
could 
> > eventually build up a multitrack audio performance with each of 
the 
> > sounds on different audio channels as you desire. You would need 
an 
> > external recording device, either analog or digital to accomplish 
> > this.
> > 
> > Hope this isn't too confusing.
> > 
> > Nigel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > i would like to have control over each drum in the kit so i can 
> > > tweak panning, effects, EQ, etc.
> > > 
> > > i might end up doing it in groups like:
> > > cymbals on one track
> > > toms on one track
> > > kick snare and HH each get a track of their own.
> > > 
> > > that's what i'm thinking.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > > > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > > > anyone doing this ?
> > > > 
> > > > DTXpressII?
> > > > 
> > > > Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
> > > > You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.
> > > > 
> > > > Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes 
on 

> > > the 
> > > > same channel?
> > > > 
> > > > Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices 
> > > each you 
> > > > will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel Kirkby" <nigel@i...> wrote:
> I'd recommend recording the toms and cymbals in stereo - the others 
> should be fine in mono.

Nigel,

Welcome to the group. I've just spent the last few minutes trying 
the "keepy ups" game on your site, managing no better than a paltry 
4. 

Ed

yes, yes...
that's exactly what i was thinking: the TOMS and CYMBALS in stereo and the 
rest in mono. the stereo tracks will allow me to get some stereo imaging 
happening. 

i'm hoping the CYMBALS in stereo will help to make them more "REAL" 
sounding. to that end i am contemplating using some kind of "RANDOMIZING" 
effect on the CYMBALS to get away from each cymabl hit sounding exactly 
the same.  that - and a reverb wash is my current plan.

if anyone has any info or ideas on a "RANDOMIZING" effect - please let me 
know.

my mind is racing with ideas  but i'm probably a week away from getting any 
recording done. the kit will be set up tomorrow or friday.



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel Kirkby" <nigel@i...> wrote:
> I'd recommend recording the toms and cymbals in stereo - the others 
> should be fine in mono.
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > well, i'll be working in ProTools on a mac. i can record audio and 
> midi.
> > 
> > the plan is roughly this:
> > 
> > RECORD the MIDI
> > MIDI TRACK 1 = Kick
> > MIDI TRACK 2 = Snare
> > MIDI TRACK 3 = HH
> > MIDI TRACK 4 = Toms
> > MIDI TRACK 5 = Cymbals
> > 
> > HAVE the recorded MIDI trigger the DTXpress or some SAMPLED 
DRUMS

> > Record the AUDIO tracks one pass at a time
> > 
> > AUDIO TRACK 6 = Kick
> > AUDIO TRACK 7 = Snare
> > AUDIO TRACK 8 = HH
> > AUDIO TRACK 9 = Toms
> > AUDIO TRACK10 = Cymbals
> > 
> > this way i can isolate and custom EQ the Kick, Snare, and HH while 
> custom 
> > panning the Toms, and adding some special Reverb wash to the 
> Cymbals.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Nigel Kirkby" <nigel@i...> wrote:
> > > What you are trying to achieve is having each drum sound (or 
> groups 
> > > of sounds) on different audio tracks. This is very different from 
> > > assigning a different MIDI channel to each sound.
> > > 
> > > MIDI channels do not convey any actual sound - only information 
> such 
> > > as what note was played, how hard it was played, how long the 
> > > duration was etc..
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure how many audio outputs the dtxpress module has (I 
> > > presume 2 for stereo) but if you were to record your performance 
> into 
> > > a sequencer and then mute various sounds at playback time, you 
> could 
> > > eventually build up a multitrack audio performance with each of 
> the 
> > > sounds on different audio channels as you desire. You would need 
> an 
> > > external recording device, either analog or digital to accomplish 
> > > this.
> > > 
> > > Hope this isn't too confusing.
> > > 
> > > Nigel
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > i would like to have control over each drum in the kit so i can 
> > > > tweak panning, effects, EQ, etc.
> > > > 
> > > > i might end up doing it in groups like:
> > > > cymbals on one track
> > > > toms on one track
> > > > kick snare and HH each get a track of their own.
> > > > 
> > > > that's what i'm thinking.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> > > > > <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > anyone doing this ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > DTXpressII?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Check Page 18 of the Reference Guide.  Section 1-7.
> > > > > You can in fact set a different channel for each Voice.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any reason to do this over just having different MIDI notes 
> on 
> > > > the 
> > > > > same channel?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Also note that with 25 possible inputs and one or two voices 
> > > > each you 
> > > > > will run out of MIDI channels (16) quick.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
<gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> if anyone has any info or ideas on a "RANDOMIZING" effect - please 
let me 
> know.

Judicious use of reverb can somewhat mitigate the need for a 
randomizing effect, since it tends to level the playing field, and 
ensemble playing in general has a masking effect on some of the 
machine gunning that e-drums can produce. The two most popular 
methods used by drum modules to tackle the problem are positional 
sensing--whereby striking different areas of a pad creates different 
sounds--and velocity crossfading--whereby varying levels of force 
create varying tones. The DTXpress has no positional sensing and its 
crossfading is limited to two voices. You can double-crossfade in 
such a way, however, that the two sounds can approximate broad or 
close differences in how two areas/hits can sound on an acoustic drum 
or cymbal. In the case of a ride cymbal, a voice at one velocity can 
be given a relatively quick attack and high frequency, as it might 
sound nearer the bell, and at a second velocity it might sound more 
sustained, lowered in pitch, and altered in frequency cutoff to 
resemble what would happen if the cymbal were struck closer to the 
edge. For a snare, you could similarly crossfade to emphasize, 
alternatively, center and edge tonality, adding rim voices and the 
rim-to-pad feature to produce even greater variation. 

Sounds run through samplers like Reason or Battery, however, can be 
quite realistic when triggered from the DTXpress. Reason's 
Alternating Zones feature is in fact a randomizing algorithm. I'm 
sure that somebody here knows more about it than I do.

Ed

Ed

As an alternative approach for the stereo randomised cymbal track, 
why not record your standard drum track as MIDI into protools but 
leave out the cymbal crashes.  Then set up a new kit on the dtxpress 
with all the pads assigned to different cymbal sounds and record 
this, either as MIDI (if you'd like to be able to quantise/edit it 
later!) or as stereo audio.

I was reading about some of the James Brown sessions recently and 
sometimes they used multiple drummers, one to lay down the groove, 
and the other(s) to add fills, cymbals etc. You'd be following in a 
fine tradition. :)


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "gollywillickers" 
> <gollywillickers@y...> wrote:
> > if anyone has any info or ideas on a "RANDOMIZING" effect - 
please 
> let me 
> > know.
> 
> Judicious use of reverb can somewhat mitigate the need for a 
> randomizing effect, since it tends to level the playing field, and 
> ensemble playing in general has a masking effect on some of the 
> machine gunning that e-drums can produce. The two most popular 
> methods used by drum modules to tackle the problem are positional 
> sensing--whereby striking different areas of a pad creates 
different 
> sounds--and velocity crossfading--whereby varying levels of force 
> create varying tones. The DTXpress has no positional sensing and 
its 
> crossfading is limited to two voices. You can double-crossfade in 
> such a way, however, that the two sounds can approximate broad or 
> close differences in how two areas/hits can sound on an acoustic 
drum 
> or cymbal. In the case of a ride cymbal, a voice at one velocity 
can 

> be given a relatively quick attack and high frequency, as it might 
> sound nearer the bell, and at a second velocity it might sound more 
> sustained, lowered in pitch, and altered in frequency cutoff to 
> resemble what would happen if the cymbal were struck closer to the 
> edge. For a snare, you could similarly crossfade to emphasize, 
> alternatively, center and edge tonality, adding rim voices and the 
> rim-to-pad feature to produce even greater variation. 
> 
> Sounds run through samplers like Reason or Battery, however, can be 
> quite realistic when triggered from the DTXpress. Reason's 
> Alternating Zones feature is in fact a randomizing algorithm. I'm 
> sure that somebody here knows more about it than I do.
> 
> Ed
> 
> Ed