Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi everyone

Been away - but now I'm back. For those of you who don't remember me, 
I was the original creator of the DTXpressions website and author of 
DTXChange. Still a crap drummer, though! Good to see this forum is 
still going strong after all this time and recognise some of the 
names from WAY back.
Still got the original DTXpress (had it for 4 years) and it still 
does what I need. Can't afford to upgrade anyway :)

Anyway, I have a question:
I noticed at a gig the other night that whilst playing 16th notes on 
snare and ride together, sometimes the snare would not trigger; 
sometimes the ride. When I got home I tested this and - yes - when 
playing any 2 pads at EXACTLY the same time, one of the sounds would 
occasionally not trigger.
Now - I can't recall whether this has always happened and I just 
didn't notice or if it's started happening recently, but it's really 
annoying.
Pad/Self-rejection settings are fine; the pads play OK on their own - 
but when 2 are played together, I get these weird dropouts.

Any ideas?

Giles!

Cool to have u back man. Not sure if you remember, but you used to
help me out over 3 years ago. I've recently upgraded to another kit so
now I'm now asking other people a billion questions :-) 

> I noticed at a gig the other night that whilst playing 16th notes on 
> snare and ride together, sometimes the snare would not trigger; 
> sometimes the ride. When I got home I tested this and - yes - when 
> playing any 2 pads at EXACTLY the same time, one of the sounds would 
> occasionally not trigger.
> Now - I can't recall whether this has always happened and I just 
> didn't notice or if it's started happening recently, but it's really 
> annoying.

First of all, this really shouldn't be happenning. The DTXpress I
brain should be able to cope with a number of sounds being triggerred
at the same time. As it is an erratic occurance for different pads the
only suggestion i have as to why would be that the pads and/or cables
are just getting old. I do use a few of my old tp60s for extra
percussion and have noticed that they do not trigger great either.
However, i only use them for practice, so it was never a serious
issue. Hope i'm wrong and somebody in the forum can offer a fix, would
be great to be able to use these pads live again. But as it stands
they are just too unrealiable.

Have you has a chance to play a DTXpress III yet? These things have
really developed! Actually thats probably not such a good idea, you'll
probably want one...

Take care Giles. Nice blast from the past.
Pete

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "peterpan" <malakies2000@y...> 
wrote: [a nice welcome back to Giles]

Giles,

I second Pete's sentiments. It's wonderful to have you back. Have 
you checked out what we've added to DTXpressions since Vern assumed 
it? I'm currently traveling around for a couple of weeks and 
checking the board whenever I get a chance. It was a great surprise 
to see you back, as well asking a question of those, whether they 
know it or not, owe the collective knowledge distributed here to 
what you and Chris and few other pioneers started five years ago. 
I'm sorry for the trouble that the DTXpress has been giving you 
lately (though you seem to have gotten your money's worth from it). 
I hope someone has a ready answer for you. I hope you stick around 
for a while.

> > I noticed at a gig the other night that whilst playing 16th notes on 
> > snare and ride together, sometimes the snare would not trigger; 
> > sometimes the ride. When I got home I tested this and - yes - when 
> > playing any 2 pads at EXACTLY the same time, one of the sounds would 
> > occasionally not trigger.

I cannot be certain but I think the rejection parameters may have
something to do with it.  The basis for this is that I have had
similar problems with the high hat & snare.  Moving the high hat to a
different part of the rack stopped it, and increasing the specific
rejection between the pads helps, which was the opposite of what I
initially did which was to reduce the specific rejection.  As you
probably don't have a specific rejection between the ride and snare,
try increasing the general rejection on the snare.  It may not help,
but is worth a try.  As the pads play normally on their own it is not
logical that it is actually the pads.

Keith.

Thanks for the great feedback, guys - it's good to be back!
After reading your comments, I came a little closer to understanding 
the problem. It IS related to the SelfRej, Rej and SPCRej settings 
but I'm damned if I can figure it out.

Previously I've always used the preset trigger "1 Medium", but after 
noticing the dropouts, I decided to fiddle about with a custom setup. 
Since I gig a lot, I decided to change MVel and Gain, so I could play 
louder without having to hit the pads as hard. I also changed my 
SelfRej & Rej settings as low as possible for buzz rolls etc. So far 
so good.
Then I noticed that the dropouts had been completely cured. 
Unfortunately now I was getting crosstalk between pads (mostly toms 1 
& 2)....

The problem seems related to how hard or soft I hit the pads and the 
Rej setting. With the "1-Medium" trigger setup (in fact, ALL the 
preset triggers), dropouts galore. With my custom setup - no dropouts 
but crosstalk. I just want to find the perfect balance between being 
able to play softly and quickly without losing triggers AND without 
triggering other pads.

Here are the settings for my custom trigger setup. Maybe someone can 
give me some suggestions:

All pads are Gain=99, MVel=50, SelfRej=2, Rej=1
(1)Kick - SPRej=1 frm=6&7
(2)Snare - SPRej=1 frm=8
(3)Tom1 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
(4)Tom2 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
(5)Tom3 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
(6)Ride - SPRej=5 frm=4
(7)Crash - SPRej=9 frm=4
(8)HiHat - SPRej=1 frm=2

NB. If I try specifying 'frm' as 3 and 4 (to stop crosstalk on the 
1st two toms), the bloody dropouts come back again!

> All pads are Gain=99, MVel=50, SelfRej=2, Rej=1
> (1)Kick - SPRej=1 frm=6&7
> (2)Snare - SPRej=1 frm=8
> (3)Tom1 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
> (4)Tom2 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
> (5)Tom3 - SPRej=9 frm=6&7
> (6)Ride - SPRej=5 frm=4
> (7)Crash - SPRej=9 frm=4
> (8)HiHat - SPRej=1 frm=2
> 
> NB. If I try specifying 'frm' as 3 and 4 (to stop crosstalk on the 
> 1st two toms), the bloody dropouts come back again!

I am not sure that gain=99 is a good idea.  Strange things can happen,
particularly on the toms where you can get "aftershock" triggers due
to the natural resonance on those pads.

I think the fact that you have taken the SPRej up to 9 without fixing
the crosstalk is also due to the gain being 99.  Try reducing the
gain, maybe to 70.  If you want to play loud, turn the volume up.

I don't think MVel does anything unless you are outputting data on the
midi interface.

If the crosstalk is general rather than specific (eg more than one pad
can cause the crostalk to the snare) you need to increase the Rej
parameter, rather than the SPRej.

You might want to try on of the LOUD velocity curves on the ride to
make it a bit more punchy without a gain of 99.

Keith.

I have had similar problems and I have fixed it. I tried to do the 
specific rejection and rejection, and I have set the rejection for 
every pad to 6 and spec rej from snare to hi-hat and vice versa to 6 
or 7, not sure. If you go into the trigger setup menu, you can change 
the Mvel and there is a second option on the page. I had mine fixed 
but the snare would mis-trigger and sometimes machine gun. I fixed 
the velocity down to about 50 and set the other option to 1 and it 
fixed that problem. When I get home I will tell you the names and 
values.

-Zack-

Hey GILES! Great to hear from you. As you can tell, the DTXPressions.com
site is still up and running. Want it back yet? :D

Hope things are going well. :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG




giles_hearn said:

> Hi everyone
>
> Been away - but now I'm back. For those of you who don't remember me,
> I was the original creator of the DTXpressions website and author of
> DTXChange. Still a crap drummer, though! Good to see this forum is
> still going strong after all this time and recognise some of the
> names from WAY back.
> Still got the original DTXpress (had it for 4 years) and it still
> does what I need. Can't afford to upgrade anyway :)
>
> Anyway, I have a question:
> I noticed at a gig the other night that whilst playing 16th notes on
> snare and ride together, sometimes the snare would not trigger;
> sometimes the ride. When I got home I tested this and - yes - when
> playing any 2 pads at EXACTLY the same time, one of the sounds would
> occasionally not trigger.
> Now - I can't recall whether this has always happened and I just
> didn't notice or if it's started happening recently, but it's really
> annoying.
> Pad/Self-rejection settings are fine; the pads play OK on their own -
> but when 2 are played together, I get these weird dropouts.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
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>
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>   http://www.dtxpressions.com
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