Digital BW, The Print

<Most B&W printers do not make their own profiles; they use those that are provided by the printer or ink seller, or are otherwise available from members of forums like this.  Learning how to profile is worthwhile if one is so inclined, but most should stick with existing systems and profiles, and spend their time making great photographs.>

 

I had a discussion with a very technically minded individual yesterday in which I posed the same question Paul:  How necessary is it to make one's own profiles; can one make excellent prints using the profiles made by you, Jon, and Richard?  I believe it reasonable to conclude that we felt that using profiles made by others would, in most instances, be perfectly adequate for most of those who are printing black and white files.  

 

 

However, I also think it fair to point out that actually viewing the profiles in QTR shows that the "structure" of the profiles can differ significantly.  For example Paul's profiles for MIS inks look completely different than the profiles that Jon provides for his inks.  Certainly such differences can be a bit puzzling to those of us who are not very knowledgeable about the mechanics of the construction of QTR printing profiles. No doubt the difference in profiles partially relate to the difference in the inks.  Nevertheless, it would be interesting if a relatively simple discussion of exactly what the curves illustrate and how such curves can be related to ink limits, etc., etc. would be welcomed.  I suspect that a "simplified" deconstruction of such curves will probably be part of Richard's new EBook.

 

Elliot

 

 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 11:43 AM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Measuring color casts in black and white prints

 

  

The way I use QTR Create ICC-RGB is to simply put it on the Desktop of my Windows machine and then drag and drop the text and PS raw file with the curve on it into the Create ICC-RGB icon.  An ICC and output text file pop out onto the Desktop.

 

I can't help you with the i1 spectro issues.  I use the Spyder from ColorData.

 

The linearization step is just for the Lab L.

 

With the Create ICC-RGB approach, the PS curves are what are used to control the Lab A and B.  It is a bit of an art, where familiarity with the color wheel and PS curves is necessary.  With both the PS curves and QTR, if you've making the original profiles/curves, it's a bit of an iteration process -- successive refinements based on the measured results of the last effort.

 

For most people, it is highly recommended that you use an existing inkset that has pre-made profiles.  Also, if there are no good existing profiles, a monotone inkset is way easier to get a good print out of than an inkset that has colors in it.  The higher the gamut of the colors, the tougher it is to get a good B&W.  

 

With an OEM inkset, if there are no existing good profiles and if the OEM "Advanced B&W" (or equivalent) controls are inadequate, using an automated ICC system such as the spectro manufacturers have in their software may be a better option than trying to master PS curves.  

 

On the other hand, buying a printer that is better supported for B&W may end up being cheaper and less frustrating than trying to deal with a color inkset that does not have appropriate profiles.

 

If the problem relates only to your trying to use a paper that is not supported by the OEM printer, I'd also recommend trying to stay with papers that are supported with good profiles.

 

For Canon, BowHaus may have solutions that would work. See http://www.trueblackandwhite.com/ 

 

The difficulty of getting a good B&W from a color inkset is the main reason for the dedicated B&W inksets.  And you'll notice that most of those from MIS or Jon Cone are either monotone or have only low-gamut inks.  Supporting the hundreds of different papers on the market with a color inkset is impossible.  

 

Most B&W printers do not make their own profiles; they use those that are provided by the printer or ink seller, or are otherwise available from members of forums like this.  Learning how to profile is worthwhile if one is so inclined, but most should stick with existing systems and profiles, and spend their time making great photographs.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:58 AM, japty4644@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  

Hi Paul,

 

I have looked at the QTR RIP and actually installed it. I cannot seem to open the Create-ICC RGB portion of it. It is on my dock of my mac but have not been able to do anything with it. I am also very confused because I really have read too much from too many individuals and am trying to incorporate their workflows into this. Some say you need the Measure Tool, others say it is an older tool and will not work. Some say use Colorport 2, others say do not. I need to simplify this to it's basic steps or I will not be able to use this.

 

Even if I get far enough, at some point, I really do not know how to adjust the linearization in curves to get it straight and that is just the "L" channel. I thought that the "L" channel was just for luminance. If you do not straighten out the "A" and "B" channels, how to you change the color casts?

 

I am a complete novice here, but I would love for someone to help me figure this out. This has been a PITA for many months and I guess I am totally frustrated at this point. I would love to pay someone for their help to solve this issue. Anyone have the time and patience?

 

Thank you,

 

Jim