Digital BW, The Print

On Wednesday, April 24, 2002, at 10:50 PM, magerabamb wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> Your info is not quite what my experience has been. I was one of the
> early-piezo-adopters and have been on Bill and Jon's beta test list
> from like Day 3. The piezo ink problems were addressed by Cone (Jon)
> and Bill about two years ago.

Brian,

They were? How about all of the 7000 users who purchased Jon's product 
which did not come out until last March. At that point Jon was still 
denying that there was any problem. Two years ago? I don't think so. He 
has denied there was ever a problem. In fact, the last round of posts I 
read, and that was a while ago, Jon was still sparring with Jim Hayes 
denying there was a problem.

> They work very closely with Sundance on
> ink and software. I know because some of my software problems very
> early on were worked out within 2-3 days. I was one of the first to
> experience "greenies" before anyone knew what "greenies" was. Cone
> tried everything in his power to get Sundance to address these inks. I
> was even copied on some of the emails back and forth between them. In
> all fairness to Cone, it isn't about some chemist being out of the
> loop. Jon and Bill had very good ideas about what was wrong.

They did? Why the heck did they not warn people about the problems if 
they knew?  Why did they let hundreds of people continue to use their 
inks when there was a problem? Many people have lost lots of money due 
to the ink problems with Piezo ink.

> I was a
> test guinea pig. They were right. Cone is tied to Sundance and
> Sundance was not responsive to Cone about it. To say Cone is not
> greedy is the understatement of the year. I know at least 20
> Piezographers besides me who have had complete CIS and ink systems
> replaced at Cone's cost. Each seems to know 20 more. I think that Cone
> has bent over backwards, and his supplier has just been banking it at
> Cone's expense.

This may be, and if so St. Jon is certainly to be commended. But for 
everyone he helped, I am sure there are two that are still mad at him. 
Want names? Cone even offered to give me all the information I wanted 
about his problems if I would sign a "Non Disclosure Agreement". I 
declined because if I did I could never offer my opinions as unbiased 
here on the list.
>
> History for me now. I have been working with a new ink which isn't
> Sundance's, not MIS's, not Lyson's, not Luminos's. And its another
> paradigm leap for a lot of reasons. It works perfect with Piezography.
> I think that a lot of people are coming off this beta about now but
> we're still not able to say nada-li-squat until May. I hope to be the
> first to give a users report.

Boy I sure hope so. We all know that we can get prints that are  
wonderful from inkjet printers. The ink is the main problem.

I am told that a certain major industry writer who has raved about 
Cone's inks is now using a different ink. Things change, but what we 
really need is a long lasting 100+ year quad set with a dmax approaching 
2.0.

Thanks for your thoughts
Mike


>
> Brian Magera
> **not bam but stilla magera**
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "iwasnvrhere"
> <iwasnvrhere@y...> wrote:
>>    Hey Martin, Some info you might find enlightening, It's kinda
> long-
>> sorry.
>> In your repsonse to:
>>> Evan,
>>
>>   {I definetly agree with you here, the development the plug in,
>> curves, and inkset was very expensive but it works and it works
>> really well so all parties agree that it was worth it. But the
>> problem is the path the inks follow is this. The inks a made and
> sold
>> to Sundance who in turn ships them to a cartridge filler who fills
>> cartridges and bottles for a fee. Then the inks/carts go to Cone
> who
>> finally sells them to end users. That's four degrees of separation
>> from start to finish and accounts for the high price of the
>> Piezography ink, Cone's not greedy, it's the product flow. This has
>> also made it a nightmare for the ink chemist (not inkologist by the
>> way) to address the issues with that set. The "greenies" and issues
>> with the CIS system to name a few. By the time problems came to the
>> person who could fix them they had gone though five people: the
>> customer with the problem-pro photographer usually, Cone's people-
>> also digi/photography people, then Sundance-software/imaging
>> specialist, and finally to the chemist. By then the problem is so
>> filtered and distorted a solution was impossible.  This is why the
>> clog and greenies issues that some people run into haven't been
> fixed
>> yet. Very frustrating for all parties involved.}
>
>
>> {I definetly agree with you here, the development the plug in,
>> curves, and inkset was very expensive but it works and it works
>> really well so all parties agree that it was worth it. But the
>> problem is the path the inks follow is this. The inks a made and
> sold
>> to Sundance who in turn ships them to a cartridge filler who fills
>> cartridges and bottles for a fee. Then the inks/carts go to Cone
> who
>> finally sells them to end users. That's four degrees of separation
>> from start to finish and accounts for the high price of the
>> Piezography ink, Cone's not greedy, it's the product flow. This has
>> also made it a nightmare for the ink chemist (not inkologist by the
>> way) to address the issues with that set. The "greenies" and issues
>> with the CIS system to name a few. By the time problems came to the
>> person who could fix them they had gone though five people: the
>> customer with the problem-pro photographer usually, Cone's people-
>> also digi/photography people, then Sundance-software/imaging
>> specialist, and finally to the chemist. By then the problem is so
>> filtered and distorted a solution was impossible.  This is why the
>> clog and greenies issues that some people run into haven't been
> fixed
>> yet. Very frustrating for all parties involved.}
>
>
>
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