Digital BW, The Print

Sam,

I generally agree with you. I think that the various inks will hold up just
fine although I would bet on the pigments to go a much longer distance than
the dyes. (By the way, I thought Wilhelm's estimate on the Lysonic E was 50
to 55 years which is the number I picked up at the inkjetart.com site.)

The problem really is a marketing issue. I think photographers are going to
have a hard time selling fine B&W prints from the Epson 2200 to galleries
and collectors when Epson advertises the materials to have a life of less
than 100 years. There is the impression that archivally processed silver
fiber prints will last forever or for several centuries. This is probably
not true and we really don't know, but this is what you have to match. All
ridiculous but that seems to be the name of the game.

Unfortunately Wilhelm has not bothered, as far as I know, to do the obvious
and to comparison test these new materials against standard photographic
materials. His "years" are a matter of mathematical extrapolation and I
believe that his "print life" is not with the image at 100% but rather at
the point where it drops below some percentage of the original image. 80% or
90% I believe. Maybe lower. The RIT test is to 65% color retention.

Wilhelm's research would be much more meaningful if the "life" was expressed
in comparison to a silver print. Did the Lysonic E or whatever fade at the
same rate as a silver print in the same test? That seems like a pretty easy
thing to measure and the fact that it has not been reported makes me
skeptical. Besides Wilhelm has been missing in action for two years now.

If Wilhelm ran all of his trials and calculated "print life" the same way
each time, then the real value of his results is in comparing one medium to
another. I really don't think you can take his published year values and
compare them to what you personally might get. Could be less or it could be
more. There are far too many variables. Only our descendants will know for
sure.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam A. McCandless" <samcc@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200,1280 and quad tone options


> The most recent Wilhelm report (6/20/2000) I have on the Lysonic E
> Quad Neutral inks reported them at greater than 100 Wilhelm years and
> counting both on Lysonic Standard Fine art Paper and on Somerset
> Velvet. Also at 80 - 90 Wilhelm years on Epson Photo Paper. All on
> the 3000. (The Lysonic E Quad Sepia inks reached 80 - 90 years on
> Lysonic Standard Fine Art, 55 - 60 years on Somerset Velvet, and 15 -
> 20 years on Epson Photo Paper. Also on the 3000.)
>
> Some photos from the 1800s are still going strong. But I'm not sure
> they would be if they had been doing the kind of hard time prints do
> in Wilhelm's tests. I don't disagree that there's an informal,
> experience-based 150+ year standard for B&W prints' longevity. But I
> guess we don't know how many Wilhelm years that would be? Wilhelm
> years are made up of days which include 12 hours at 450 lux. Isn't it
> plausible that 100+ Wilhelm years is a _higher_ standard for B&W
> prints?
>
> Sam
>
>
>
(snip)