Hey Martin,
I really think there could be some marketing niche available for the single
print look.
Imagine,
The Ansel Adams Toned Set...
The Edward Curtis Toned Set...
The Martin Wesley Toned Set...
Could be fun...collectables for a new age...
Steadman (yeah...this post was meant to be goofy!)
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:13 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
Steadman,
Not twenty photographers. That would be a nightmare! Group think is a
guaranteed disaster and your point is well taken. I was thinking of twenty
silent prints just to look at, measure and compare to your developing ink
set so that you fall somewhere in the middle and not off to one extreme or
the other. Seem like taking a single print from a single photographer was
a
bit chancy. If you looked at my silver prints you will see a wide range
just
from one photographer! I see problems with both coursed actually and in
any
case it all worked out well and that is all that matters.
Other inks set would be welcome but realistically I doubt that will be
profitable. I hope the more adventurous of us will blend our own sets from
what is available to create some diversity. I guess I dread walking into a
gallery and finding everyone printed on Photo Rag with Selenium PiezoTone
ink and all the prints are the same hue. Now someone else might think that
was just great. Beauty is in the eye...
Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
> Hi Martin,
>
> We may agree on many things and of course disagree on some things.
>
> Given the various opinions on this forum and the earlier PiezoBW forum
as
to
> what constitutes the "ideal" print tonality etc...I don't think it would
be
> possible or realistic to get a group, even a group of 'respected'
> photographers to agree on a single tonal set/image or look for a
selenium
> print.
>
> I honestly think a "committee" approach to determining the model for the
> Selenium print would have been a failure.
>
> In my opinion, it is better to take the best print from a master printer
and
> do the best possible to match that one print.
>
> Of course this is limiting to some degree, but I think it would lead to
a
> more accurate final result, admittedly based on a master print, versus
an
> averaging of some group of prints from various printers. A case of "too
> many cooks spoil the broth" so to speak. Or put another way...avoiding
> mediocrity.
>
> Hey...if Jon Cone comes up with the "Ansel Adams Neutral Inkset" (gives
> really black skies...) I think that is great too. Or perhaps the Silver
> Gelatin Inkset based on the prints of....
>
> Of course that is just my opinion...(wINK)
>
> Steadman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 1:26 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
>
>
> Steadman,
>
> Well on that I don't agree although I think it all worked out okay.
Better
> to have taken a score of selenium toned prints from various respected
> photographers and have worked up from there to something in the
middle.
>
> In response to Jerry below, I do agree. The amount of variation in hue
> among
> selenium toned silver prints is HUGE. Some papers show no color change
at
> all and I have seen other that went deep, deep purple brown if they
even
> got
> near the toner tray. We all have our favorite papers and that choice
is
> often based upon how they tone.
>
> I tone pretty hard and prefer Oriental paper to all others so you
should
> keep that in mind if I say I like the Selenium PiezoTone ink. A lot of
> people may find it too magenta for their tastes.
>
> The good news is that the Selenium ink shows a great deal of
difference
in
> hue depending upon the paper that you chose. So even with a fixed ink
hue
> I
> think you will still find a good size range of final print hue
available.
> There is also the possibility of using inks from the Warm Neutral or
Cool
> Neutral ink sets in combination with the Selenium or by blending inks
to
> get
> just the color you want. Hopefully people will give this a try and
share
> their results.
>
> Of course it would be nice to also have a variable hued selenium ink
set
> available. One with a neutral black, cool Y and C with a small gamut
> magenta
> toner for use with the MIS-VM workflow. (Hint, hint!!)
>
> Martin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 10:43 PM
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
>
>
> > This is precisely why I respect that Jon Cone used a Selenium toned
> print
> > from his mentor and master printer. He respected Gassen's skill,
> judgement
> > and technique to the point to develop an ink based on the tones in a
> Gassen
> > print. I think that is great.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steadman
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:21 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
> >
> >
> > The tone of a silver print in selenium toner is very dependent on
both
> > the dilution and the length of time toned. You could get 50
different
> > tones from selenium toner. Also it is hugely dependent on the
brand
of
> > paper you are toning. So what is the color of a selenium toned
print?
> > It really varies...
> >
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Paul Roark wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert Morrison wrote, in part:
> > >
> > > >... On EAM I would say that my general
> > > >impression is that FS-N looks blue and Selenium
> > > >Piezotones look ever so slightly eggplant.
> > >
> > > There appears to be a substantial variance in the tones that are
> > achieved by
> > > toning silver prints with selenium -- the paper, strength of
toner
> and
> > time
> > > in toner being the primary variables. In recent years I have
(or
> had)
> > been
> > > using Kodak Polymax Fine Art paper and toning in selenium 1:19
for
3
> > > minutes. This light toning was the usual practice, as far as I
> could
> > tell,
> > > for those who wanted better archival properties, a slight
increase
> in
> > Dmax,
> > > and not a severe color change. (Heavy selenium toning often
results
> is
> > a
> > > rather magenta print.)
> > >
> > > Using the X-Rite spectrophotometer to read a sample of a silver
> print
> > that
> > > was toned in selenium per this normal procedure, I get the
> following:
> > >
> > > Dark black (not Dmax): c=1.70, m=1.71, y=1.66, v (visual)=1.71
> > >
> > > Shadow tone (about 75%): c=0.99, m=1.00, y=0.99, v=1.00
> > >
> > > Midtone (about 50%): c=0.59, m=0.60, y=0.59, v=0.60
> > >
> > > Light tone (about 25%): c=0.33, m=0.33, y=0.32, v=0.30
> > >
> > > So, basically, the light tones are slightly cool, the midtones
are
> > neutral
> > > with a slight magenta cast (the slight "eggplant" tone, I would
> assume),
> > and
> > > the deep shadows/near black tones are cool.
> > >
> > > It would be interesting to see how the new PiezoTone selenium
values
> > look in
> > > comparison to these.
> > >
> > > For comparison, an FS-N test strip on EAM, with the Piezo driver
> gives:
> > >
> > > 100% black: c=1.59, m=1.60, y=1.61, v=1.59
> > >
> > > 75%: c=1.00, m=1.00, y=0.98, v=1.00
> > >
> > > 50%: c=0.66, m=0.65, y=0.63, v=0.66
> > >
> > > 25%: c=0.32, m=0.32, y=0.31, v=0.32
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
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Polls
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RE: [Digital BW] Selenium beta
2002-07-18 by Steadman Uhlich