Digital BW, The Print

On 8/7/02 9:10 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Robert Morrison wrote:
> 
>> The new Piezotones give far superior prints to my eye and spectrophotometer
>> than the MIS inks.  The MIS inks flutter around a very critical area of the
>> dmax range (1.5 to 1.65).  When you go with the piezotones you get out of
>> this range with all of the major papers...(1.65- 1.85).  This makes a huge
>> difference to my eye.  A 1.55 dmax print is unacceptable while a 1.65 dmax
>> is ok to me.
> 
> In general, I would agree that the deeper the black, the better.  However, I
> have yet to see a black ink darker than the MIS FS or VM black, or the
> original PiezoBW black that does not fade and warm-shift more.  After about
> 300 hours in my fader, the PiezoTone black on Photo Rag had lost it's edge
> to these more pure pigmented blacks.  That test continues, so we'll see if
> it actually ends up less black.  So, in my mind, we still do not have the
> best of both worlds.  You have to choose between deep initial blacks and
> longevity.

I seriously doubt that the Piezotone black will fade back more than the
other pigment blacks.  Given that we don't know what 300 hours in your fader
is it may give the piezotones literally a year...or 5 or 10 years of
advantage depending on display conditions.  If the final print ends up the
same, but the print that goes in the gallery has more punch...there is
something to be said for that.  We aren't talking about dyes vs. pigments
here...we are talking about an enhanced pigment vs. a regular pigment.
What's underneath the piezotones...the thing that will last is carbon
pigment just like in VM/FS or the original PiezoBW.  Its the same logic as
Gen4 black...and that was rated with 100 Wilhelm years...but the piezotones
will probably last much longer than the Gen4 because of the Gen4 dye.
 
> The depth of black does seem to have decreasing marginal importance as it
> gets deeper.  One reason I like the Epson driver is that I get 1.68 with the
> 3000, MIS VM K and Epson Archival/Enhanced Matte paper.  Deeper would be a
> little better, but 1.68 is fine, and it will last.

True, but 1.55 vs. 1.75 is an enormous difference (Somerset Enhanced).
Eclipse and Museo show similar enhancements.  These are premium fine art
papers that provide options and prints, very, very different from EAM. In my
option, the Piezotones have released quad printing from the expensive and
unpredictable grasp of Hahnemuhle. As we have discussed before Epson
"Archival" Matte...isn't.
 
>> That said I have a much broader range of papers...some much
>> cheaper than Hahnemuhle that give great prints.  This difference more than
>> compensates for the price difference in inks given that paper is really the
>> big cost in all of this...not inks. ...
> 
> I go for the best of both worlds -- MIS K and Epson Archival/Enhanced Matte.
> 
>> If I want to change from
>> one inkset to another (which I don't do too offen) I just swap carts and
> run
>> a flush image.
> 
> "A" flush image???   It takes about 4 cleaning cycles to clean out the tubes
> of the 3000.  It would take MANY flush images to clean them out.  With my
> 1160 it's easier only if I use a new, vacuum-filled cart.  Otherwise at
> least 3 cleaning cycles seem to be needed to get a previously-used cart to
> give a clean nozzle check.

Personally, I don't need to switch tones offen...I find tonal switches
rather disruptive to a portfolio.  If I'm working on a body of work that I
think I would like to print in sepia...then I can quickly evaluate in
photoshop whether the work works that way...then make a switch that costs
maybe a couple dollars of ink and start working on it.  If they are 24 x 36"
prints from the 7000 then the cost is slightly more, but I could do proofs
in the desktop printer first.  In fact I could do the test prints in any of
the tones and then simply switch inks to do the final prints.  So far I've
found that the Neutral-Warm and Selenium Piezotones behave identically with
the same profiles (unlike the MIS FS and FS-N inks which require separate
profiles apparently due to differences in individual ink density).  Of
course that's the way that I work...if you wanted to go back and forth a
couple of times a night then VM would absolutely be the less expensive/time
consuming option.
 
>> When the Piezotone Sepia and Neutral-Cool
>> inks come out later this summer you will have as broad a range of tones as
>> VM and WM-sepia offer and without the hassle of an RGB workflow.
> 
> Once you have a good set of curves, there is no hassle to the RGB workflow.
> I switch from neutral to sepia just by applying a different curve -- even
> within a single print.  If you want to have different tones, I'd call
> switching carts continuously the more serious hassle.

I haven't worked with VM, but I can safely say that using the RGB workflows
that I've tested are major pain in the rear end.  There is a problem here in
this image a problem there in this image...a flat spot here and flat spot
there...that is not my experience with imageprint and for the most part my
experience with the Piezo driver once you fine the right profile.  I agree
with comments from others that Cone needs to update the profiles in the
Piezo driver for the piezotones...but Personally that doesn't concern me
because I'm using Imageprint.
 
> Getting good Photoshop image adjustment curves is the key to an RGB
> workflow.  It takes some work, but there are pre-written curves that work or
> are very close for a number of printers.  True, the Piezo system (I'm not
> familiar with the ImagePrint system) has many canned profiles for different
> papers, but a number of papers work very well with the default Epson
> Archival/Enhance Matte profile for which most of the existing
> variable-tone/mix curves have been written.

That has not been my experience with RGB workflows.  You only need to look
at the effect of switching profiles in the piezo driver across a given paper
to understand that this simply isn't true.  Each paper (actually coating)
ink combination is specific and needs to be profiled.  The piezo driver
starts this...imageprint does it custom for any paper that you like with the
supported inks.  I'm getting .05% separation across the entire 0 to 100%
range with any paper I want...absolutely no flat spots...its the smoothest
gradient that I've sever seen...incidently...without doing any work on my
part...other than printing a target and sending it to Florida for papers
that they haven't already profiled.

> I don't want to get into a big debate over which system is the ultimate --
> but there simply is not one choice that is clearly superior in all respects
> for all people.  

I totally agree.

Robert