Digital BW, The Print

Tim,


The prints I made yesteday hold up wonderful in Daylight. The Purple bl4
is the correct choice.  

I did not adjust the curve. I don't know how to do that (I mean how it
actually works, not the physical adjustment of it). Why do you need to
adjust it? What happens to the image when you do? and what adjustments
did you make to it?

The generic RGB setting seems to be the best choice to make the print
and monitor match exactly. (In the print dialogue box).

The prints I've made so far are as nice as the VM inkset. But I have
many more tests to run, especially to check for the dots. 

Jerry





tyork@... wrote:
> 
> Hi Jerry,
> 
>  The curve window next to the color is the one I adjust. My
> understanding is this adjusts the distribution of the color
> throughout the print. I'm not sure if you can adjust the purple
> itself and leave the black alone. You might be able to do this with
> saturation I'm not sure. You are far more experienced with PS6.01
> than I am. I'm really glad to find that you can get a selenium-tone
> from MIS Archival color. Maybe I've finally found my inks. Thanks
> again, I really appreciate your help.
> 
> Tim
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Just did it Tim, I found the one.
> >
> > I tried the "Printer Color Management Profile", and purple four
> duotone.
> > Results much more closely match the monitor. Then I tried the Adobe
> RGB
> > profile, and that was a hair too light. The Generic RGB profile is
> just
> > about to come out of the printer as I type.
> >
> > All three have the desired color. No crossovers. This is absolutely
> > amazing for a color inkset. Perfect selenium tone prints!!!!!!
> (epson
> > archival Matte paper).  I'm VERY impressed.
> >
> > Okay, the Generic RGB profile print just came out of the printer. It
> > appears to match the monitor perfectly. There does not appear to be
> any
> > metamerism to speak of, either.
> >
> > If you haven't tried third party archival color inks yet, I suggest
> you
> > get the MIS set and give these settings a try. I wonder why Adobe
> just
> > didn't label these purple colors "Selenium 1, 2, 3, and 4?  That's
> what
> > these appear to be.
> >
> > The first three are just a hair too cold and blue, especially the
> first
> > one. But that fourth one.! It's perfect.
> >
> > Of course, I've only tried the one image, but it is a snow scene,
> and
> > river, and looks really perfect with these colors.
> >
> > I'm going to put a print in the south window tomorrow and see how
> long
> > it takes to shift.
> >
> > If these colors hold up, one probably wouldn't even need a quad or
> > hextone set of inks. I'll be printing on many different papers over
> the
> > next few days to see how this workflow holds up.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > tyork@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > Jerry,
> > >
> > > Go to the canned duotones in PS6.01 and scroll over to the purple
> and
> > > it will be there.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > Tim, I can't get a 527 pantone purple. When I type in that
> number a
> > > > light beige comes up.
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > >
> > > > >  The Pantone 527 purple (100%) black 4. This is in PS6.01
> canned
> > > > > duotones. I then played with the curve to get the
> distribution I
> > > > > wanted. You might be able to get a more subtle effect if you
> > > reduced
> > > > > the purple. I didn't know how to do this. My knowledge of PS
> is
> > > > > limited. I am more comfortable with the picture-taking as
> opposed
> > > to
> > > > > the picture-printing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tim
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > Exactly what purple and black ink?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are thousands of shades of purple!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  I use a black/purple duotone with curve adjustments on
> the
> > > > > purple,
> > > > > > > 1440 dpi, high speed off, matte paper setting,gamma 2.2,
> no
> > > color
> > > > > > > adjustments. The light is daytime and normal house
> lighting.
> > > > > That's
> > > > > > > about it Jerry. If I have missed something let me know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > yup.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You addressed a post to Mike re: selenium-toned
> prints,
> > > was
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > meant for me?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Mike, I don't think getting a selenium toned print
> will
> > > be
> > > > > > > > > difficult.
> > > > > > > > > > But, Whenever you deal with black
> > > > > > > > > > and white prints, there is metamerism. I got a nice
> > > sepia
> > > > > tone
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > Epson
> > > > > > > > > > Watercolor paper, and on Eclipse paper yesterday,
> that
> > > look
> > > > > > > great in
> > > > > > > > > > daylight, and are also attractive in Tungsten
> lighting,
> > > but
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > slightly different tone of sepia. Also, Metamerism
> is
> > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > colors
> > > > > > > > > > on different papers.  Color prints don't show a lot
> of
> > > > > > > metamerism
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The trick will be to get a nice selenium tone print
> in
> > > one
> > > > > light
> > > > > > > > > source
> > > > > > > > > > that still looks attractive in another lighting
> > > situation.
> > > > > I've
> > > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > this for sepia tone, but selenium will be jore
> > > difficult.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Exactly what are your settings for your epson
> > > ink/selenium
> > > > > > > prints?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What are your choices of lighting? Daylight,
> Tungsten,
> > > > > > > Fluorescent?
> > > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > > that order? I don't really have any fluorescent
> > > lighting in
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > home
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > view these prints under, I have to take them to a
> > > store. And
> > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > > there's 10 different color temperatures of
> fluorescent
> > > > > lighting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >  Congratulations on your exhibit. Your images are
> > > great
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > > they will be very well received by the public.
> > > > > > > > > > >  My family and I always say Grace at meal times
> and we
> > > > > > > included a
> > > > > > > > > > > special prayer for everyone involved in
> yesterday's
> > > > > terrible
> > > > > > > > > events.
> > > > > > > > > > > This doesn't sound very Christian-like but I hope
> you
> > > send
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > bastards to HELL when you catch them.
> > > > > > > > > > >  I hope, I hope, I hope that you can get a
> selenium-
> > > toned
> > > > > > > print
> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > that inkset. The only thing that keeps me from
> > > tearing my
> > > > > > > hair out
> > > > > > > > > > > (both of them) is that I have the OEM inkset which
> > > gives
> > > > > me
> > > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > > duotones. IMAGINE, JERRY OLSON printing sepia-
> toned
> > > prints
> > > > > > > and as
> > > > > > > > > > > Maxwell Smart would say AND LOVING IT :-). Jerry,
> they
> > > > > almost
> > > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > > like they are a platinum-tone with the rich
> blacks and
> > > > > all.
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > > again, Jerry, for trying to help. I really
> appreciate
> > > it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Best regards always,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > www.portraitsofnature.net
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry
> Olson
> > > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Evening Tim,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I've been doing a VERY odd thing for me
> > > today. I
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > display of
> > > > > > > > > > > > 15 photos going up in a new gallery in town.
> They
> > > wanted
> > > > > > > > > Sepiatone
> > > > > > > > > > > > prints! After all I've gone through to get the
> cold
> > > > > tones.
> > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > Prints I've been printing today, aren't "Piezo
> > > Brown".
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > genuinely a very attractive sepia tone, and I
> was
> > > > > > > dumbfounded
> > > > > > > > > as to
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > good they look. They are much richer in tone
> than
> > > the
> > > > > cold
> > > > > > > tone
> > > > > > > > > > > prints,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and the blacks are deeper. (Browns?) Richer, and
> > > more
> > > > > > > luxurious
> > > > > > > > > > > looking,
> > > > > > > > > > > > anyhow!!) They were printed with a color balance
> > > > > setting I
> > > > > > > made
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > photoshop, and were printed with the COLOR MIS
> > > Archival
> > > > > > > > > pigmented
> > > > > > > > > > > inks.
> > > > > > > > > > > > They actually look more classy than the cold
> tones
> > > I've
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > printing
> > > > > > > > > > > > for all these months. They work on Eclipse and
> > > Somerset
> > > > > > > Enhanced
> > > > > > > > > > > paper
> > > > > > > > > > > > beautifully. I have never seen a monotone print
> on
> > > > > Somerset
> > > > > > > > > velvet
> > > > > > > > > > > > enhanced of this quality. The blacks? Browns?
> are
> > > deeper
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > get with cool tones on this paper.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So I would say yes, you can print any selenium
> tone
> > > you
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > > from this inkset. The prints I've been printing
> > > today
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > seem to
> > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > > any noticeable metamerism; This must be because
> any
> > > > > > > metamerism
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > inkset tends to be a little bit red. (About 6
> or 7
> > > ccs
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > red,
> > > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > > you go
> > > > > > > > > > > > by the kodak Gelatin filters.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I learn something new every day. i never
> > > thought
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > > > > like brown tones. But again, this is NOT an ugly
> > > piezo
> > > > > brown
> > > > > > > > > color,
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > is a really nice color!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tomorrow, I'll try and print a Selenium toned
> print
> > > for
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > the metamerism goes. It is different, depending
> on
> > > the
> > > > > file
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > color/or grayscale mode. It is different if you
> > > print it
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > an RGB
> > > > > > > > > > > > image or from a Grayscale image.  So MANY
> > > variations are
> > > > > > > > > possible.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Every paper I've used on these sepia prints
> print
> > > the
> > > > > images
> > > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing that does NOT look nice as this
> color
> > > > > is, of
> > > > > > > > > course,
> > > > > > > > > > > snow
> > > > > > > > > > > > scenes. They must be cool.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I really think if you put some testing time in
> with
> > > this
> > > > > > > inkset,
> > > > > > > > > > > you are
> > > > > > > > > > > > going to be very happy.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe what happened in New York
> and
> > > > > > > Washington
> > > > > > > > > today.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I've been glued to the news channels all day. I
> hope
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > > discover
> > > > > > > > > > > > exactly who is behind this and eliminate them
> > > utterly.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Take Care.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jery,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your test on the MIS color inks in
> a
> > > > > duotone
> > > > > > > mode.
> > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > guess
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that tears it for me. I am going to stay with
> the
> > > > > Epson
> > > > > > > OEM
> > > > > > > > > inks
> > > > > > > > > > > > > until there are inks that will do what I
> want. I
> > > like
> > > > > > > > > selenium-
> > > > > > > > > > > toned
> > > > > > > > > > > > > pictures and will wait for Cones selenium inks
> > > and see
> > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > like. Thanks again.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
> Jerry
> > > Olson
> > > > > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, Metamerism raised it's ugly head last
> night
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > MIS
> > > > > > > > > > > color
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > inkset and black and white prints. Too much
> to
> > > > > accept,
> > > > > > > > > toward
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > red,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid. A Real Pity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh well, back the the VM MIS inks....
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > daviddstock@e... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
> > > Jerry
> > > > > Olson
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  I just printed some black and white
> prints
> > > today,
> > > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > MIS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color inkset and the Torchon Profile I
> had
> > > made
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > printer.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1160)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Torchon, Epson Archival and Eclipse
> > > paper,
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > profile
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works very
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well indeed. No color cross overs, and a
> > > very
> > > > > close
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > neutral
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tone. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was absolutely amazed to get consistent
> > > black
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > white
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prints from the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIS color inkset.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about metamerism, Jerry? Using
> profiles,
> > > I've
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trouble getting good grayscale prints
> using
> > > color
> > > > > > > > > inksets. But
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such prints have the reputation for being
> > > either
> > > > > > > > > impermanent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (like the Epson OEM dyes) or metameric
> (like
> > > the
> > > > > > > Epson and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Generations pigments). The reported
> exception
> > > has
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cone's Color Piezo, which has poor
> blacks...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check
> the
> > > > > Files,
> > > > > > > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often
> being
> > > > > > > updated. The
> > > > > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the
> > > Files,
> > > > > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being
> > > > > updated. The
> > > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the
> Files,
> > > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being
> > > updated. The
> > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being
> updated. The
> > > > > page
> > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> Bookmarks,
> > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The
> > > page
> > > > > is at:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> > > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The
> page
> > > is at:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page
> is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/