Digital BW, The Print

Hi Martin;

This all sounds very interesting-is there a URL for Sundance, and do 
you have any idea if the PixelPixasso rip will support other (not 
seven ink) printers in some fashion?. Also: not to be negative,but 
did you happen to mention to them how absurd these prices sound to 
most of us?  I just got to see a couple of test prints of Pauls new 
UC VM inks, and I have to say that no matter how good a solution the 
R9 set is, they have some serious competition here. Most people, 
myself included will try Paul's new set first, and stick with it if 
it works, even though we really want a driver/rip that gives us 
proper control at the gui.

Steve K


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> A week ago I received a set of five ~6x9" prints, printed on the 
same long strip of Photo Rag by a 7600 using a new set of inks from 
Sundance and software by R9. These are the two companies responsible 
for developing the original Piezo inks and software plugin. There 
was an information sheet with the prints explaining how the system 
worked.
> 
> I also exchanged a couple of e-mails with Gary Rogers of R9 and 
got the chance to talk to him by phone.
> 
> The Septone inks are a set of a neutral black with three neutral-
warm gray inks and three neutral-cool gray inks. These are designed 
for use in the new 7-ink Epson printers. Specifically the 2200, 7600 
and 9600 printers. The PixelPixasso RIP allows the user to determine 
the blend of the gray inks in the high, mid and low tones of the 
grayscale image.
> 
> First a paper profile is selected and then three sliders allow you 
to set the ink blend for each tonal range in 1% increments.
> 
> The five prints I received include one print made with 100% NC in 
all three ranges, one with 100% NW in all three, one with 50/50% 
NW/NC in all ranges, one set to 100% NC in the highlights, 25/75% 
NC/NW in the mid tones and 100% NW warm in the low or shadow tones, 
the fifth print was set to 100% NW in the highlights, 25/75% NW/NC 
in the mid tones and 100% NC warm in the low tones.
> 
> The prints are of a wonderful image of a single fully opened rose 
blossom taken by Ken Niles. It is a full range image with gentle 
tonal graduations in all areas of the tone scale. The hue of the 
prints is very nice in all the examples. I lean more to the warm 
side of neutral but the cool will appeal to many. The 100% cool is 
about as cool as MIS-FN, not quite as cool as you could get from MIS-
VM using a "cold" curve. The warm print falls somewhere in-between 
Warm Neutral PiezoTone and Carbon Sepia PiezoTone. A little more 
reddish than MIS-FS or MIS-VM with a "warm" curve. Not as red as MIS-
VM Sepia.
> 
> None of the prints show any sign of metamerism under tungsten, 
quartz-halogen, fluorescent or day light. Nor do I see even the 
slightest hint of olive or yellow-green that I see prints made with 
the original Sundance/Piezo inks.
> 
> Unfortunately there were no step-wedges included but hunting 
around the prints with an X-Rite 811 densitometer I measured Dmax 
values in the 1.71 to 1.74 range. These were consistent throughout 
the five prints and are comparable to MIS-FS black and PiezoTone 
Portfolio Black.
> 
> The really fascinating thing is that the tonal balance across all 
five prints is identical. The highlights don't blow out or the 
shadows don't get muddy as the ratio of the two gray sets is 
adjusted. As Gary explained the software takes into account the 
varying ink densities and make compensations on the fly to keep the 
over all balance.
> 
> Simply put what you have here is all the advantages of the tonal 
variation of MIS-VM with finer control combined with the tonal 
accuracy and ease of use of the R9/Piezo plug-in. They are side 
stepping the inherent problems of using a toner gray and RGB 
separation curves to "trick" the Epson driver and address the 
printer directly. Based on the samples and the description, without 
actually have had a chance to try it myself, it looks like a 
wonderful plug-and-play B&W solution for the 7-ink printers.
> 
> For those of you who need it, PixelPixasso is also a color RIP and 
is sold on a "one license per CPU" basis so you can use the RIP to 
control a dedicated B&W printer and a separate color printer as 
well. Can't tell you anything about the color potential though.
> 
> Please note that the inks used are not the original Piezo/Sundance 
inks. The NC grays are the current Sundance NC and the NW is a yet 
to be released ink set using the same chemistry as the NC. Gary says 
these inks do not suffer the clogging issues of the original inks. 
The NC set has been fade tested by RIT and received a >100 years 
rating with the comment "...seemed to be almost not affected by the 
exposure to light." Gary expects the NW inks to be even slightly 
more light resistant.
> 
> The Sundance NC inks have been available since last summer and I 
am wondering if anyone out there has given them a try. If anyone 
has, please share your experiences.
> 
> The new Sundance NW inks will also be available separately and 
will be compatible with the R9/Piezo plug-in. This will bring the 
total of warm tone ink sets for the plug-in up to five! Sundance 
plans to continuing marketing the original inks but perhaps under a 
new name such as "Classic".
> 
> I don't have any pricing information on the ink cartridges but I 
expect it will be in line with Sundance (www.bwguys.com) pricing. 
The PixelPicasso will also follow their RIP pricing of $1,495 for 
the 7600/9600 wide format printers and $495 for the desktop version 
of the RIP. Particularly exciting for those like me who have neither 
the resources or space for one of these wide printers, they expect 
to be selling pre-filled 2200 cartridges by the end of March and 
expect to sell the hue blending software as $150 plug-in or perhaps 
simply include support for the ink, the blending feature and the 
2200 into the existing R9/ plug-in. This put the entry level price 
point at $850 for a new 2200 with the plug-in plus the cost of the 
inks. With the availability of continuous inking systems for the 
2200 coming on line this makes the entire thing very attractive.
> 
> Quite frankly the quality of these prints seems much superior to 
anything I have seen from the 2200 using the Epson inks. However, 
like any of the carbon pigment inks, I assume you would not have the 
ability to print on RC type glossy papers as you can with the Epson 
ink.
> 
> Since this software is designed to work with two sets of gray inks 
that closely match the density range of the original Sundance/Piezo 
inks, it makes me wonder if you couldn't use it with other pairs of 
gray inks such as Warm Neutral and Cool Neutral PiezoTone or 
Selenium and Warm Neutral PT or MIS-FS and FSN or....
> 
> I posed this question to Gary and he wrote back:
> 
> "Both user experience and our own rigorous testing and analysis 
show that the R9 software will not perform to its maximum capacity 
when used with unsupported inks or media and may not perform as 
intended. A change in solvent, dMax, and/or chroma between ink sets 
would necessitate the profiling of the ink/media/printer 
configuration. R9 will profile ink sets for manufacturers, but it 
requires a commitment of resources on the part of the ink 
manufacturer."
> 
> This is a very reasonable answer and given the shifts observed in 
switching from original Piezo to PiezoTone inks with the Piezo plug-
in, correct. Change any part of the system and there will be changes 
in the final result. However, as many of us have found the change is 
often something we can live with or work around so there may be 
possibilities in this direction. Gary's last sentence should be of 
interest to ConeTech and MIS. Sounds like R9 is holding the door 
open to add support for other ink sets to their software. I hope 
one, or better both, will seriously consider this offer.
> 
> Sundance and R9 plan to make the official announcement next 
weekend at PMA. Hopefully there will be more info then. If you go to 
PMA, stop in at their booth (P-70) and let us know what you think.
> 
> Martin Wesley
> 
> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]