Digital BW, The Print

We'll just have to agree to disagree, Brian. I also used to teach
photography a long time ago (University of North Dakota). I feel my
Brooks training was a great help. I love the F64 look, and the Ansel
Adams print look. I don't like platinum prints at all. (At least all the
ones I have seen} were gray/brown and muddy as hell. Very
unsatisfactory, to me. I don't care how great the mid tones are, without
a deep black, I just don't like the print. Now high key prints are a
different story. I totally agree they don't have to have a deep black. I
just cannot imagine one of the classic Ansel Adams images without a deep
black. I wouldn't even want to see one, as I know I wouldn't like it.

Maybe I have never seen a really great platinum print. I haven't seen
many. But if it is anything like the ones I have seen, I wouldn't like it.

Jerry






Brian Mikiten wrote:
> 
> Jerry -
> 
>   I taught photography and large format workshops across the US for several years and have to completely disagree with the statements you make on "the proper print" having certain tonal values. (yes, I read your exceptions but I feel like making comments) Now...that said...I have to mention that I used to believe this too until I started looking at some platinum and other types of prints which were deep in mid-tones and repleat of whites and blacks. My own style is fairly Adams/Sexton/Weston (yeh, right) and Piezo printing took some time to accept but I have learned that the old school of needing a dmax and dmin is probably not reasonable as a rule. I'm getting better about judging the image and not the tones. I used to preach this to students and now have to take the advice myself. I used to get stuck on getting a dmax and dmin and noticed later that the image stunk. <G>
> 
> Brian
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jerry Olson
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 10:23 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Technically Perfect Print was: Uncoated Papers
> 
>   Harvey,
> 
>   Try to imagine one of Ansel Adams prints without a proper black. Think
>   it would be impressive? If he just had charcoal grays where blacks
>   should have been, I doubt if he would have been considered a good
>   printer. Most (but not all) landscapes need that deep black to make a
>   satisfying print.  And please keep in mind I did not say ALL prints
>   should have a deep black.
> 
>   At school, we were always taught that a proper print, except high key
>   prints, should have a paper white, a full range of grays, and a black,
>   somewhere in the print that was as deep as the paper could produce.
> 
>   In fact if a print did not have these qualities, it was an automatic
>   reprint. I had Boris Dobro as a teacher, and he was a master printer.
>   World Class.
> 
>   Jerry
> 
>   SKID Photography wrote:
>   >
>   > I think it's unfortunate that you seem to have such a limited view of what can comprise a 'beautiful' image.
>   > To be hemmed in by perfect black and pure white seems so limiting, when there are ranges of emotions to evoke.
>   >nfo/terms/
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/