Digital BW, The Print

I've got the IT8 as well but as I don't shoot tranny it isn't that much use
for me. Profiles on scanners only work for the tranny material you shoot on
which is why IT8s are available for a range of tranny films.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was: Epson3200 - Test
results)


> I also use Vuescan and have had good results, especially with the latest
> version with the IT8 calibration facility and ICC profile support.
However,
> I am a fan of the HDR output from Silverfast, and I have had my best black
> and white scans and Portra scans (I find Portra a tricky neg to get good
> scans from) with the 48-bit HDR Colour setting, scanning black and white
as
> colour transparency.  The 16-bit HDR Greyscale is also not too bad for
black
> & white negs, although I prefer to control the conversion from the rgb
scan
> data to greyscale myself rather than to let the scanner software decide.
>
> Simon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was: Epson3200 -
Test
> results)
>
>
> > Thanks for these Simon. I can't get good scans from silverfast and I use
> > Vuescan. Looks interesting - thanks again
> >
> > Julian
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@...>
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 6:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was: Epson3200 -
> Test
> > results)
> >
> >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > I don't really want to get into the sharpness, detail, contrast etc.
> > debate
> > > as it has probably been done here and on other forums before.  Let me
> > > explain by what I mean when I say the detail is there with an example
of
> a
> > > couple of scans.  This URL points to a part of the photo-i forum where
I
> > > posted a soft scan and this was sharpened by Vincent to show that the
> > detail
> > > was indeed present:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.pl?s=3e7591d91447ffff;a
> > > ct=ST;f=36;t=1;st=100
> > >
> > > As you can see, the creases in the skin under the eye, the black
detail
> > > lines in the blue part of the eye, the freckles on the nose in the
> bottom
> > > left side of the image and the red vein in the left side of the eye
are
> > all
> > > apparently missing in the soft scan, but with sharpening the detail is
> > > there.  This is not manufactured detail - you can't manufacture a vein
> in
> > an
> > > eye or a freckle on a nose.  I also have some shots of bushed and
trees
> > and
> > > the detail is definitely there.  I worked on this some more to get the
> > > colour right but I haven't uploaded that sample yet.
> > >
> > > This soft effect is worse on 35mm.  With 6X6 scans the detail is there
> in
> > > the untouched scanned image and the amount of sharpening required is
> > > significantly less.  Here are two URLs, one of a Velvia slide and one
of
> a
> > > Portra neg.  Both are 6X6 and both had bags of details:
> > >
> > > http://www.sclamb.com/scancomp/Church.jpg
> > >
> > > http://www.sclamb.com/scancomp/Glen%20Portra.jpg
> > >
> > > I have worked with the 3200 for a while now and am getting the best
> scans
> > > using Silverfast Ai, with the scanner profile calibrated using an IT8
> > > target.  I also find the Silverfast scans are visibly sharper than the
> > Epson
> > > Scan scans, even though all sharpening is switched off.  I have also
had
> > > great success with black and white & Portra scans using the HDR output
> > > capability of Silverfast and doing all manipulation on the raw data in
> PS.
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was: Epson3200 -
> > Test
> > > results)
> > >
> > >
> > > > exactly my point! I'd be interested in how you can say that 'the
> detail
> > is
> > > > there' if the scan appears very soft. I can give the appearance of
> > > > sharpness - as i do - by USM tricks - but the details (I'm thinking
> here
> > > of
> > > > thin branches, trees etc - the usual difficult suspects) are
missing.
> > When
> > > > people say the 1680/3200 are sharp, what they are really saying is
> > 'sharp
> > > > enough for them' - but as to some form of 'absolute' sharpness (I
feel
> > > > Austin about to dive in;-0 ) they are very second rate IMO compared
to
> > > film
> > > > scanners.
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@...>
> > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 5:47 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was:
Epson3200 -
> > > Test
> > > > results)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Julian
> > > > >
> > > > > I must be losing the thread here.  What Polaroid and Minolta are
you
> > > > > comparing scans with?  If the Multi Pro and SS120 then you cannot
> > > compare
> > > > > flatbed to dedicated film scanner.  My 3200 scans appear very soft
> but
> > > > look
> > > > > great after sharpening in PS, and all the detail is there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Simon
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was:
> Epson3200 -
> > > > Test
> > > > > results)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > well mine is. and I've had it serviced twice. There really is no
> > > > > comparison
> > > > > > with scans I've done on both a Minolta and Polaroid film scanner
> of
> > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > neg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Julian
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Simon Lamb" <simon@...>
> > > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 4:26 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was:
> > Epson3200 -
> > > > > Test
> > > > > > results)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Julian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The 1680 cannot be producing softer scans than the 3200 and I
am
> > > > getting
> > > > > > > excellent results with just PS sharpening.  I have definitely
> > found
> > > > > > > artifacts appearing when doing any sort of sharpening in the
> scan
> > > > > > software,
> > > > > > > especailly is smooth, even tones such as blue sky.  I have
also
> > > found
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > UltraSharpen Pro produces much better results than plain USM.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Simon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> > > > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:43 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was:
> > > Epson3200 -
> > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > results)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are dead right - it is better to leave sharpening until
> PS,
> > > BUT
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > optics in the 1680 are so soft that I need both. BTW I only
do
> > > this
> > > > in
> > > > > > > BW -
> > > > > > > > for colour I do all the sharpening (I use Ultra Sharpen Pro)
> in
> > > PS.
> > > > > One
> > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > I do is to take a blank neg and use a sharp knife to make a
> > score
> > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > experiment with various amounts of sharpening to get a fine
> > line.
> > > > > > Flatbed
> > > > > > > > scanners IME just cannot get the sharpness of a film
scanner.
> > > People
> > > > > > talk
> > > > > > > > resolution numbers all the time but ignore the 'look' of
> > scanners.
> > > I
> > > > > > note
> > > > > > > > that this is happening with cameras i.e. the Kodak is
'better'
> > > than
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > canon because it has more megapixels, noone seems to be
> bothered
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > image quality!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Julian
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Alessandro Pardi" <alessandro.pardi@...>
> > > > > > > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:14 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what? (was:
> > > > Epson3200 -
> > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > results)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Julian,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > do you get better results with a pre-sharpening at scan
> time?
> > I
> > > > > always
> > > > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > that it's better to leave the sharpening to Photoshop.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Alessandro
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: domenica 16 marzo 2003 12:06
> > > > > > > > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Is this noise or what?
(was:
> > > > > > Epson3200 -
> > > > > > > > > > Test results)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  I cannot get satisfactory scans (sharp) without
applying
> > 3x3
> > > > > > > > > > > pixel unsharp mask in the scanning application
> (Silverfast
> > > Ai
> > > > > 6).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Me too on a 1680. I need a 3x3 in the scanner software
> plus
> > > the
> > > > > > usual
> > > > > > > > > > unsharp mask tricks in PS. Just as an example - I had
some
> > > > > > > > > > scans done on a
> > > > > > > > > > minolta of 6x6 cm negs. On the 1680 I have to use the
same
> > > > > > > > > > amount of unsharp
> > > > > > > > > > mask on a 600x600 pixel 75ppi jpeg as i did on the
4800ppi
> > > > > > > > > > minolta tiff
> > > > > > > > > > file. Colour is harder as the 3x3 gives me a halo
effect.
> > I've
> > > > > > started
> > > > > > > > > > shooting a BW landscape project (ok Nij stop laughing)
and
> > the
> > > > > > lackof
> > > > > > > > > > sharpness is pissing me off big time
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Julian
>
>
>
>
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