Digital BW, The Print

Paul,

I think that you are drawing a very fine line in the sand on this 
one.  I fully agree that putting things into a photo after the fact, 
or taking them out for that matter, would compromise the idea 
of "straight photography." However, I suspect that at some point 
extreme tonal and contrast corrections would also.  This is a dicey 
area as a photographer is trying to convey what he or she felt with a 
two dimensional image. It would seem to me, however, that 
if "straight photography" is to have meaning, than more observers 
than just a photographer would have to share that sense of meaning 
about a scene when loooking at it in real time.  There has to be a 
point where changes in tonality and contrast are the moral equivalent 
of inserting or removing objects; for example, what about a scene 
shot in mid-afternoon rendered as late evening?  Nothing implanted or 
removed, but not exactly "straight photography" either.

I just reread AA's description of "Moonrise..." in The Making of 40 
Photographs and I am not really sure about this one. Hard to tell how 
far removed the image is from what the preverbial objective observer 
would have seen.

To be clear, I am not arguing that "straight photography" is better 
or worse than anything else.  Just trying to think about limits.

Steve

<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Jerry wrote:
> 
> >Ansel Adams manipulated his prints as much as they
> >could possibly be manipulated, in the darkroom.
> >Suggest you read his "The Making of 40
> >Photographs", which tells how he manipulated them, and why.
> 
> But this was within the limits of an understood ethic.  There were 
(I
> believe and hope) no composites -- no huge full moons were 
artificially
> stuck into the photos.
> 
> For example, to me, "Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico" benefits from 
the
> increased sky contrast that AA put into the later versions of the 
photo, but
> if that moon turns out to be artificially stuck in there -- or, for 
that
> matter, enlarged in size or moved -- my regard for the photo and AA 
would be
> decreased substantially.
> 
> Part of the "straight photography" genre that I'm attempting to 
describe is,
> I believe, that every significant element or physical object in the 
final
> print is also on the negative and in the same physical position or
> relationship to the other parts of the photo.  (And, I suppose, no 
one is
> hanging a moon or flying saucer model from a fishing line in the 
scene, like
> a low-budget Ed Wood sci-fi flick.)
> 
> I think the way this thread started was an attempt to define or 
label a
> category of photography.  Again, this is not saying that 
this "straight"
> photography, if that old term is appropriate, is better or worse 
than the
> many other categories of the medium.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> __________________________________
> 
> 
> Loris Medici wrote:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@v...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:57 PM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: un-altered camera image
> > >
> > > ...
> > > "With Edward Weston, Imogen Cunningham, and a handful of
> > > other photographers, Adams founded in the early 1930s Group
> > > f/64, which was dedicated to straight photography as an art
> > > form. Photography at the time was dominated by the
> > > "pictorialists," who created staged, artificial (and now
> > > largely forgotten) photographs that imitated the conventions
> >
> > Just to address the sarcasm enclosed in parenthesis: I simply 
don't
> > beleive that Joel-Peter Witkin's (which is not the only 
photographer to
> > present staged, artificial photographs) work will be forgotten in 
the
> > future...
> >
> > > of painting. Adams was instrumental in the struggle to gain
> > > for photography recognition as art on its own merits."
> > > <http://www.turtlebay.org/exhibitions/anseladams/pg04.html>
> > > ...
> >
> > > ...
> > > Near the end of his life, Adams produced prints
> > > intended to represent his life's work not just as a series of
> > > landscape images but as a panorama of the possibilities of
> > > the "straight," unmanipulated style to which he adhered."
> >
> > I don't consider AA's work unmanipulated at all. Did you see the
> > straight print of "Clearing Winter Storm, Yosemite" in his 
book "The
> > Print"? It has nothing to do with the "finished" print presented 
few
> > pages later. If his photographs were not manipulated the contact 
print
> > and the enlargement of the same negative would look identical 
apart the
> > sizing (which is impossible in the case of AA).
> >
> > http://www.masters-of-
photography.com/A/adams/adams_clearing_winter_stor
> > m_full.html (this is not the best reproduction though)
> >
> > > ...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Loris.
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/