Digital BW, The Print

donbga wrote (snip):
"Who cares what the physical properties of these materials
are from a practical point of view".

and  Peter Nelson replied  (snip) :
"I (am)struck by a lack of deep-down technical curiosity 
about the underlying chemical and physical processes involved
in inkjet printing (among inkjet printers)".

In simpler times, some (like DaVinci) wore both the 'major artist' 
and the 'major scientist' coats, but it hasn't been done in modern 
times (since Goethe). Artists today make images, not scientific 
explanations; (the converse limitation is true for scientists). 
An image-maker's goal is to produce the deepest and richest image 
he/she can, and to do this he/she uses whatever means are at hand 
and deemed suitable. As Don (dongba) says, "from a practical point 
of view, who cares".

Peter, your analysis/contention here seems superficial. Show me 
a major photographer who understands his/her physical materials 
in the same way a chemist or physicist does -- you can't. 
A number of the best (chemical process) printers (e.g. P. Strand,
P. Caponigro, A. Stieglitz), who had/have a deep intuitive grasp 
of how to use their materials, have made clear that they 
do not employ a truly scientific understanding of the stuff they 
work with -- and source material on this point is available, and you 
could check it out. Further, painters and sculptors are just like photographers: they use what's at hand and what they consider 
suitable, just like Don says; they care about how their image works,
and they don't rely on formal scientific understanding to do this.

Curiosity takes more shapes than you are allowing for. You need 
to escape from your personal presumptions and look at what the major 
practioners actually do.  

And from my standpoint, I'll join the others who've said "Enough 
already" to the extended discussion of the physics of 'digital, 
film, and scanning'. It's not really germane to making deep and 
rich printed images.

John           

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter Nelson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Digital, film, scanning comparisons


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "donbga" 

  > Who cares what the physical properties of these materials
  > are from a practical point of view.

  I had a practical need for that information a few months ago here, 
  when I wanted to know more about the chemical and physical 
  properties of inkjet paper and inks so I could formulate an inkjet 
  receptive surface on true artist's canvas. (you can't paint 
  on "inkjet canvas 'paper'")

  My comment was about the cultural difference between the two 
  groups.  I was struck by a lack of deep-down technical curiosity 
  about the underlying chemical and physical processes involved in 
  inkjet printing.   Granted the majority  of darkroom printers don't 
  have it eaither, but a significant minority do.  Any active darkroom 
  forum will have a few people who can asnwer questions about 
  developer chemistry, for instance, but inkjet forums seldom have 
  anyone who knows anything about inkjet chemistry.




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