Digital BW, The Print

Hi Phil,

I don't know if we got our "..fair share of Cone detractors,.." or 
not. Maybe we got short changed. I'll check into it. ;-)

The open poll shows that the three top ink sets used by the list 
members for printing B&W are Piezo at 43%, MIS VM 24%, Epson Inks and 
MIS original tied at 10%. Pretty much a Piezo heavy list.

So far people appear to be objectively relaying their own actual 
experiences or preferences. If recounting a bad experience with Piezo 
or any product is viewed as detraction I don't what to say. This is 
meant to be a discussion of all the products and techniques, both 
their good and bad points. People have had bad experiences with MIS 
too and have said so. I don't think of them as "Zeiss detractors" for 
their remarks. 

The bit you quote at the bottom of your message here I believe was 
from Tyler not Terry and that he is referring to my response to a 
post by Jim Hayes. Tyler feels my post was unbalanced. I have gone 
back and re-read it, and I feel it is very honest or at least how I 
honestly see the situation myself.

As far as I can see, all of the options have good things to offer and 
at the same time each has limitations. I agree about the flag waving. 
It only obstructs the view and venom has little to offer.

I am glad you have had such good experience with Piezo on your 1160 
and the 7000, and thanks for letting us know. People should make more 
of an effort to post their good experiences with products and 
equipment. I hope I have the opportunity to see your work in the 
flesh at some point.

I am keeping everything crossed that the Piezo "Selenium" and the 
1280 driver will get me to your level of satisfaction with Piezo.

You are right about the intuitive feel of the MIS VM. I sometimes 
find it difficult to know what to do next when there is a problem 
with the print. I think that this is due to imperfections in the 
tonal ramp, which show up as tonally flat areas in the print. I am 
learning how to work around this but I would just as soon not have to.

It sounds like you and Mark got to be the lucky paying beta testers 
for the MIS's CFS for the 7000. Thanks for the heads up on that one 
so that we know that Mark's experience was not just a single problem 
unit. Maybe this will motivate MIS to fix the problem.

You are right about our expectations. Money aside, having your 
creative flow interrupted and finding yourself working as a printer 
or computer troubleshooter when you meant to spend the day as a 
photographer is absolutely frustrating. I hope that the future will 
bring us better and more trouble free products. In the mean time I 
think we will just have to do the best we can with what we have and 
seeing some of the work being produced it is damn good.

Before I forget, how did you do with your LightJet digital negative 
project with A&I? Were you able to get the results you wanted? I was 
impressed by the results you last posted and it looked like you were 
getting close.

Martin



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Phil Bard" <phil@p...> 
wrote:
> I'd agree that this list has attracted it's fair share of Cone 
> detractors, and I think that is really unfortunate.  I'm really not 
> impressed with flag waving partisans.  I'd rather hear objective 
> accounts of what folks are experiencing, sans venom.
> 
> In the way of facts:
> 
> I've run an 1160 with CIS and Cone inks for many months now, and 
well 
> over a thousand prints, without so much as a single clog or 
shifting 
> contrast, increasing green or other anomaly, outside of some 
initial 
> clogs with cartridges which immediately cleared when I went to 
CIS.  
> Period.
> 
> I recently purchased a 7000, and decided to give the MIS VM's a 
try.  I 
> spent some time with Paul trying to get the curves for the Mac 
worked 
> out, but have just recently given up as time has become a factor.  
I 
> think Paul is doing careful, diligent work with this approach, but 
I 
> just needed to get something working.  I'm sure in time he will 
develop 
> great curves, although I question the ability of the Epson driver 
to 
> deliver the goods, based on the images I was printing.  The 
approach is 
> also lacking in intuitiveness, which I happen to value highly.  I 
want 
> to be able to see the image I'm printing in a more verifiable form 
> onscreen.  I was impressed with the MIS inks, and would not steer 
> anyone away from them if they like this approach.  I did have major 
> problems with their CFS system for the 7000, which started out fine 
but 
> began sucking air into the lines within days.  Mark Tucker had 
similar 
> problems.  I would stay away from this system, I suspect the high 
> viscosity of pigmented inks is the culprit here. The Cone people 
have 
> indicated this is why they don't offer this system for the 7000.
> 
> I've now gone to PiezoBW24 Pro and am up and running and creating 
what 
> I feel are spectacular prints.  Large versions of the stuff I was 
> getting from my 1160.  Not without a few glitches, I'm running the 
new 
> software and there are a few problems with speed and possibly 
> inconsistent profiles, its still too early to tell about them.  The 
> PiezoBW6 update I've been using for the 1160 is solid and very 
> consistent.
> 
> Finally, I do think we expect a lot from this rather new 
technology.  
> It's still young and a moving target.  Mixing proprietary and third 
> party products always carries some risk of incongruities. That is 
not 
> to say that I don't myself want to see results from invested money 
and 
> time.  But silver printing has been around for decades now, and it 
> still has plenty of inconsistencies.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Phil
> http://philbard.com
> 
> > wrote:
> > Terry, I was, in fact trying to balance out the posts, and was 
> > responding to what I thought was an unblanced post. I think this 
list, 
> > in particular, has a high percentage of members disgruntled with 
> > Piezo. I should know better by now to post this kind of thing 
here. 
> > Without turning this into a big back and forth thing, I'll simply 
tell 
> > you why I think what I think.
> >