Digital BW, The Print

At 02:34 AM 8/19/03 +0000, you wrote:

> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "craig"
> > <craygc@y...> wrote:
> > >As my thoughts will undoubtably be construed as a personal
> > >attack by some, I'll apologise upfront - "if I'm wrong, then please
> > >enlighten me"
> > >
> > >I am curious as to why people who engage in a hybrid-digital
> > >B&W workflow (shoot film and scan) would really want to use a
> > >chromogenic film. As for being true B&W, these films are
> > >conceptually as B&W as printing greyscale with a cmyk inkset
>
>I don't follow that at all. Though that would be true of shooting true
>color film for B&W conversion. XP-2 is monochromatic, there are not
>multiple dye layers for color.
>
> > >and without offering any of the traditional characteristics of
> > >silver based film over that of colour print film - eg expanded
> > >exposure ranges.
>
>It seems to me to have a rather extraordinary exposure range. You can
>easily capture ranges that would require several zones of developement
>compaction on traditional BW films. Add to that the advantage of high
>densities being translucent dye instead of opaque metal, which makes
>those contrasty scenes easier to scan, and to print in the darkroom.
>
> >> Almost all the chromogenic are softer
> > >(resolving ability) than colour print alternatives;
>
>Really? I don't have the numbers, but there is no shortage of
>sharpness. I regularly print 120 XP-2 images at 17x22, most people
>think they are large format.
>
> > and as
> > >Photoshop (or similar software) is an inevitable component of
> > >the the digital B&W end-to-end workflow, shooting in colour
> > >print and converting to B&W in the computer surely
> > >offers greater flexibility and control over contrast and tonal
> > >adjustments ...and surely colour print conversions cant be
> > >considered any less B&W than the using a chromogenic!
>
>This is not an opinion based on tech stuff, but for me, you have to
>commit. Do you have enough of a clue at the scene to know whether this
>will work in B&W or color? Learning to see is a never ending learning
>process that requires discipline. The best artists always talk about
>limiting options, commiting to a vision. The more options I leave open
>for myself later, the less I knew, and now know while printing, what's
>going on with that image.
>I've been using 120 chromo film since the first crummy agfa stuff came
>out, for 120 I like it a lot. Unless you underexpose, it's creamy and
>grain free, and does well in a lot of lighting situations. Not trying
>to enlighten you, but those are my experiences with it. Some people
>hate it.
>Tyler

Guys,

Weighing in on chromogenic film - you CAN process it at home.  I develop 
HP5, etc. along with XP 2 in my exclusive developer for all things, split D76.

This pic is an example of the latitude and fine 
grain:  http://www.panoramacamera.us/air_support.html  It scanned like a 
charm, I used almost no PS adjustments and output to piezo, quad black.   I 
don't see why other developers for B/W films wouldn't work.

AZ