Digital BW, The Print

Bill,

I don't think anyone here would disagree with your comment that 
carbon pigment inks on matte paper will not produce as intense a 
black as the black on a GSP.... is there another point or are you 
merely stating the obvious?

If you were making another point, I would love to here it.

Sincerely,

James Sims
www.jamessims.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" 
<gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> But the blacks certainly don't match up to darkroom quality.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "James Sims" 
<james@n...> 
> wrote:
> > Mike,
> > 
> > To your last point, definitely go with the 1280 and the MIS Inks, 
> > you will be very pleased.  I use the MIS inks on the 1280 (and 
CIS) 
> > and print using the Piezography software.  I also use a 1270 and 
MIS 
> > variable tone inks using various curves, though I do not 
personally 
> > get quite as good results and have spent a lot of time tweak my 
> > curves.  The 1280 renders wonderful greys no matter how you go 
about 
> > it.  Best of luck, with the support of this group, you have an 
> > amazing resource at your finger tips.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > James Sims
> > www.jamessims.com
> > www.lightroomphotography.com
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mike 
Botelho" 
> > <mfractl@h...> wrote:
> > > Thanks, Paul, for welcoming me and for the very interesting 
> > > information.  I also checked out your website (which I'd 
actually 
> > > visited a few days ago, in fact), enjoyed your images for a 
while, 
> > > then ended up at the MIS website checking out the good deal of 
> > > information there also.  Let's say I'm just starting to learn 
just 
> > > how much I have to learn.
> > > 
> > > I find your work with the Ultra Tone inkset very interesting, 
> > > including the prospect of printing with an ink based purely on 
> > carbon 
> > > black pigment.  As someone who's quite familiar with pigments 
used 
> > in 
> > > artist's colors, and as someone who is used to using only pure 
and 
> > > accurately-identified pigments, I find the whole pigment ink 
> > > situation a bit disconcerting.  I'm used to knowing how long a 
> > color 
> > > will last simply because there are ASTM lightfastness ratings 
for 
> > all 
> > > pigments.  In the world of pigmented inkjet inks, the 
individual 
> > > pigments are never identified, leaving you at the mercy of 
> > (usually 
> > > exaggerated) lightfastness claims.  Printing with an identified 
> > > pigment is less disconcerting to me, not to mention that carbon 
> > black 
> > > is about as simple, lightfast, and stable as pigments get.  
And, 
> > of 
> > > course, there is also the fact that this approach excludes 
cyan, 
> > > magenta, and yellows that consist of pigments that haven't been 
> > > identified (to me) and may, for all I know, not be nearly as 
> > durable 
> > > as the black they are mixing with.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble, but this is one of my personal 
> > > reactions to my new involvement in inkjet printing.  I look at 
> > > pigmented inks as artist's materials, and I'm simply not used 
to 
> > > buying artist's materials with unidentified contents and a 
vague 
> > > assurance of 'trust me, it'll last'.  As you know, I'm new to 
all 
> > > this, but I have to admit that the concept of using CMYK to 
print 
> > B&W 
> > > hasn't sat too well with me since I started to learn about the 
> > Epsons 
> > > and the Ultrachromes.  These are just my knee-jerk reactions, 
> > > though.  I'm sure many people are getting great results with 
the 
> > > Ultrachromes, and I'm far from having reached an ultimate (or 
any)
> > > decision about my own choices.  I'm just describing initial 
> > > reactions, that's all.
> > > 
> > > Also, the concept of using curves and avoiding a RIP is very 
> > > appealing, though, of course, I'd have to try the approach out 
> > myself 
> > > to see how it suits me.  But, since I've become fairly adept at 
> > PS, 
> > > even the concept of experimenting with new media and coming up 
> > with 
> > > some of my own curves doesn't seem terribly intimidating.  
Also, I 
> > > like the concept expressed on your website about B&W always 
being 
> > > accessible and affordable and your wanting to keep it that 
way.  I 
> > > wholeheartedly agree.
> > > 
> > > So, obviously, I make no claims about my ultimate choices for 
> > inks, 
> > > workflow, media, etc., but this has definitely given me a lot 
to 
> > > think about.  Also, it's capsized my notions of what printer 
I'll 
> > be 
> > > purchasing, since it's starting to seems more likely that I'll 
> > > dedicate a printer to B&W.  Up until about a week ago, I was 
only 
> > > concentrating on color, so 7-color Epson printers were my main 
> > > focus.  Now that I'm considering specialized B&W inksets, and 
now 
> > > that dedicating a printer just to B&W seems appealing, I have 
no 
> > idea 
> > > where I stand, particularly if I still want to do a fair amount 
of 
> > > color printing too.  I had been thinking about getting a 7600, 
but 
> > I 
> > > can hardly afford to buy one for color and one for B&W, plus 
it's 
> > not 
> > > like the Ultra Tones have a 7-cartridge solution anyway.
> > > 
> > > Maybe I'll pick up a 1280 and dedicate just to B&W and use it 
for 
> > all 
> > > my initial experiments and learning and then just go from 
there.  
> > In 
> > > comparison to the costs of photo gear, computers, software, and 
> > even 
> > > inks, a cost of under $400 for a great printer to learn on is 
> > > rediculously affordable.  Plus, only having to mess with 2 
> > cartridges 
> > > is convneient and seems to be a great match to the Ultra Tone 
> > > approach.  One question, though.  Wasn't the 1280 orignally a 
dye 
> > ink 
> > > printer?  Are there any potential problems to using pigmented 
inks 
> > in 
> > > this printer?  I read on your website that you are working on a 
> > 1280 
> > > plus Ultra Tone setup, so I assume there must not be a problem, 
> > but I 
> > > just thought I'd ask.
> > > 
> > > Anyway, sorry for rambling, but this is all new, and it's all 
just 
> > > starting to sink in.  Like I said, who knows where I'll end 
up.  
> > > Actually, that only makes things more interesting.
> > > 
> > > Thanks again,
> > > 
> > > Mike Botelho