Digital BW, The Print

Mark Hahn wrote:

>I guess you are trying to turn this into a stupid pissing match...
>  
>
Not at all.. You issued the insults to those who use plugins.. I was 
entirely OUT of the discussion until you crossed that line.  It's not 
about ME.. nor do I want a pissing match.. It's about not taking snide 
little jabs at users of products that they find useful..

>I wasn't trying to insult anyone, but in this case I think that the 
>best you can expect from a plugin is a good starting point.
>
Then just say that... Instead of the gratuitous hand holding comment..

>  I spent 
>about two minutes making my own action to set up some adjustment 
>layers and starting points and then add about one minute per print 
>tweaking them up to perfection.  I believe that people who buy my 
>prints appreciate the attention to detail that I give to each print 
>instead of just "pushing a big button" and saying it is good enough.
>  
>
No-one is debating that..

>I guess I don't understand why you ever have to try and match a 
>certain film. 
>
That's already been answered by others.. But, I'll add as you have, that 
it provides a consistent starting point... and a potentially consistent 
"look" to imagery..

> My belief is that you should try and make each print 
>as good as humanly possible. 
>
Again, that's fine for fine-art....

> 
>You make such a big deal about how much money you supposedly make as 
>a photographer and how little time you have... I'm somehow *not* in 
>awe.
>  
>
It's not about ME, it's about all those commercial photogs.. You asked 
why they would use a plugin instead, and implied they were simply in 
search of hand holding..  I can use channel mixing quite nicely thank you..

>Where's my break point?  $0.00  I don't use a plugin and frankly,
>  
>
Well, that's YOUR position.. No problem with that..

>A VCR does one thing and as long as you can push the buttons it does 
>the same thing no matter what you know so there isn't point to 
>learning how it works. 
>
Actually not true, but we won't go there...

> With Curves and Channel Mixer, it does help 
>to know what they do if you are trying to precisely control you image 
>processing.  If you never learn how to do a quality conversion from 
>RGB -> Greyscale then you will never know how to make the required 
>adjustments when your plugin does a less than perfect job... and that 
>will end up costing you more time (and frustration) than the time 
>saved not learning how to do the conversion in the first place.
>  
>
Curves and Channel Mixer are two different tools..

Let's restrict ourselves to just the Channel Mixer here..

I may agree with you that understanding the process makes for better end 
results in some cases.. HOWEVER, what I'm saying is that you don't HAVE 
to generally understand the conversion process itself to produce usable 
results, as a rule.. Keep in mind that most of those using these plugins 
are NOT as up to speed as many of us in PhotoShop, but do understand how 
it worked with film and a darkroom.. The plugin tries to return them, in 
part, to that familiar interface..

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"