Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony G. 
Atkielski" <anthony@a...> wrote:
> scrber writes:
> 
> > Very informative post, thank you.
> > But basically, no easy way right?
> 
> No easy way that I know of.  Basically, anything that requires 
human
> intelligence, such as recognizing pimples on a face or selectively
> correcting for color balance errors in mixed lighting, is going to
> require a lot of hand work.  The only things that can be automated 
to
> any extent are those that can be done on the basis of pixel colors
> alone.  In digital retouching, there aren't that many things that 
can be
> automated.  Even sky modifications, as simple as they might seem 
from a
> human standpoint, are often impossible to automate to any extent.
> 
> > 1. Use a polariser
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > 2. Use hue/sat / whatever conversion methods appropriate to get 
dark 
> > skies without posterisation
> 
> Yes, although 8-bit data may posterize if you have to make a sharp
> change.  No way to avoid that.
> 
> > 3. Darker (is PAINT) manually to darken
> 
> Yes.  And posterization may still be a problem for 8-bit data.
> 
> > Right?  Pretty much what I've been doing, but its so da*n slow 
and
> > I'm naff at it!
> 
> You get faster in time, but it is never quick and easy.
> 
> I spend a lot of time on night shots, for example, because varied 
light
> sources always mess up the color balance, and because sharp 
contrasts
> make some sort of adjustment to recover detail in highlights and 
shadows
> necessary.  Both of these always involve lots and lots of time 
spent
> brushing over the image by hand.  The results can be pretty 
impressive.
> 
> It's best to have a deep, high-resolution image to work with.  That
> means a deep scan (10 bits, 12 bits, or however many you can get) 
at
> high resolution, or a digicam image with the same 
characteristics.  It's
> extremely difficult and often disappointing to try to adjust 8-bit 
data,
> and low resolution also can turn an image to mud if you have to 
retouch
> anything.
> 
> One of the things I like about shooting Portra 400BW is its range; 
the
> film is low contrast, but for night shots that is an advantage.  
See
> 
> http://www.mxsmanic.com/stairs.jpg
> 
> This image had a _lot_ more contrast originally, with nearly 
blocked
> shadows and seemingly blown highlights.  But a deep scan revealed 
lots
> of detail in the shadows and highlights, and a lot of burning and
> dodging in the digital realm reduced the contrast and restored good
> detail from corner to corner.  Shadows on the dark surface of the 
water
> were preserved by the film, as were details in the bright spot on 
the
> wall near the lamppost.
> 
> This image was a similar case
> 
> http://www.mxsmanic.com/artists.jpg
> 
> The original was a lot more contrasty.  But the film had actually
> recorded a lot of shadow and highlight detail, even though it 
wasn't
> initially obvious.  Extensive dodging and burning brought out this
> detail, so that virtually no part of the image has that ugly 
featureless
> black or white look of an image with blown highlights and shadows.
> 
> Color and slide film are much more difficult.  For example:
> 
> http://www.atkielski.com/Wallpapers/display.php?
picfile=PlaceVendome&picwidth=800&picheight=600
> 
> This image was dramatically retouched.  The colors were all over 
the
> place in the original, and the contrasts were frightening.  I must 
have
> spent an hour or more trying to get this one to look okay.  The 
result
> still isn't ideal, but it looks a thousand times better than the
> original, believe me!  At least the final version kinda sorta 
resembles
> what I actually saw in person.
> 
> One of the nice things about B&W is that you don't have to worry 
about
> color balance.
> 
>   -- AA


Thanks, pretty much sums it up. 
Night shots dont bother me so much because you can bleed to black 
and mask so easily as the rest of the shot is normally inherantly 
dark.
I struggle with simple blue cloudy skies and getting them 'ansel 
adams' dark.  I do capture digitally and therefore my films days are 
gone.
This is the kind of image I mean :

http://www.hang-up.co.uk/Images/brochure/full%20jpegs/020706%
20panorama%20crummock%20B&W%20copy.jpg

Using channel mixer to darken it generates awful noise, I can smooth 
it out (generating banding) and add noise back in but I just 
wondered if this workflow really made sense to the experts.

Thanks again for your feeback.

Love the stairs picture by the way, saw it before a long time ago...!

Steve.

http://www.hang-up.co.uk/Images/brochure/full%20jpegs/020706%
20panorama%20crummock%20B&W%20copy.jpg