Digital BW, The Print

Thanks Harvey, I appreciate your take.

I just want to clarify one thing I was speaking of. American Photography was
a series of Annuals that I knew of earlier in the 90's; I don't know how
many volumes they actually produced, but I think it was at least 4 or 5. I
think it may have been in partnership with Photo District News' publisher,
because I think the one time I submitted a print it was through PDN's
office. It was a different beast than American Photo the magazine
altogether.

Well, I can't speak first hand about how useful being published in one of
Graphis' books might be, but I was reading on APA's list some Photographers
remarking how useful being published in the Communication Arts annual was
for them, so I assumed that Graphis' stature would yield similar results,
but I'm sure that a lot more creatives subscribe to CA than buy the Graphis
books, so it might well have been a flawed assumption on my part.

Todd

>> I'm interested in your take on this. On the surface they look no worse to me
>> than competing publications, such as Communication Arts, or American
>> Photography. So, while I'm sure everything you say is true, how are they
>> different than the others?
> 
> First I should say that I have over time, become wary about entering any
> competitions, therefore it may be me,
> and not the rest of the world.  But my experience on both sides of the review
> process has shown me that it is
> so arbitrary as to be ludicrous.  I have seen too many ridiculous judgments
> made (outside of the parameters
> set forth in the competition rules) based purely on subjective likes and
> dislikes (like 'I don't like the
> color blue, or red, whatever').
> 
> When I was younger I had others tell me that competitions like that were
> always bad, and took advantage of
> artists and I did not understand, I think I do now.
> 
>> Okay, you don't get a free book out of it,
> 
> Their books are *very* expensive. When I was in the Graphis Nudes it was
> something like $60 to $80 (US).  I
> could get it on the street (or now from Amazon) cheaper.   How much could it
> have realistically cost them to
> give each accepted entrant a copy? I think it's pure greed on their part,
> taking advantage of desperate
> artists.  If someone approached you on the street and said:  "Tell you what,
> I'm going to make greeting cards
> of your work, and sell them, but give you nothing beyond the privilege of
> seeing your work in print."  Would
> you go for it?   I doubt it.  It's all relative. Why is the above Graphis
> 'competition' different?  Graphis is
> using the 'contest' as a profit center, which is less than altruistic.
> 
>> but
>> their submission fees are a lot more reasonable than most of the others I've
>> seen. I like that. I don't know of any high end publication that doesn't
>> charge some entry fee for submissions and many charge you an additional fee
>> for scanning and separations if your work is selected. I suppose I'm not
>> crazy about them reserving the right to continue to use your work for future
>> publications but, I wonder how many times they've actually republished an
>> image. Furthermore, most people enter these types of award competitions for
>> the exposure, so additional publication in a future volume would be more
>> good fortune.
>> 
>> Seems to me that if you want your work to be seen at the highest level in
>> the commercial arts world and given the stamp of approval by the one of the
>> highest arbiters of taste (in that segment of the industry), the reasonable
>> entry fee makes for the cheapest advertising you can get (if your work is
>> selected) and probably much more effective than source book ads. It's not
>> free at $30 for 5 submissions, but the reward to risk ratio seems really
>> small to me.
> 
> While it is, in fact *much* cheaper than a source book ad, it is not, in my
> experience, very effective.  With
> our sourcebook ads we get at least 40 calls per year, from people who are
> *very* interested in hiring us and
> allowing us to earn lots of money, more than enough to pay for the ad (on a
> single job alone).  Further, I
> have visited with many an art director or photo editor who was familiar with
> our work because of our ads in
> sourcebooks.  The same cannot be said for my image in the Nudes/Graphis.  I
> have *never* met anyone who either
> mentioned having seen it, or approached me regarding buying or even looking at
> my work.
> 
> Many times 'not for profit' groups run competitions with subsequent shows and
> publications of the results.  In
> almost all of these situations the fees cover the cost for the organization to
> produce these events...They are
> not 'profit centers', as they are with Graphis.  Even with American Photo, a
> case could be made that the costs
> for the magazine to produce the competition is covered by the entry
> fees...which is very labor intensive.  It
> is not like American Photo is publishing a separate hardcover book, of the
> winners to sell.   (Is it ? I could
> be wrong, but I thought that they only published the winners in their
> magazine.)
> 
>> 
>> With that said, I do respect your opinion, so I'd like to hear more about
>> your experience with them. I'm just not sure I see why you are disenchanted
>> with them. Was there nothing good that came from being published by them? Do
>> you feel the same way about all the awards books? Do you feel the same
>> if/when you're submitting commercial work?
> 
> The question of commercial work competitions is a good one.  I/we have not
> entered any so I can't really
> answer that question.  Whenever we see these things, our work does not seem to
> fit the types of parameters
> that they are covering.
> 
> Again, my disenchantment came over time.  Among other things, it also came out
> of my experience with Graphis,
> specifically.  When they set up the original Nude competition, the results
> were supposed to be published
> within 6 months of the deadline.  As I recall, it took well over a year.
> Apparently, Graphis (who should have
> known better) used a printer in the Far East in a country that did not allow
> very much nudity to be published,
> so they had a lot of the work seized in customs and eventually had to rework
> their publication so that there
> was no pubic hair showing among other things. They also, as I recall decided
> against 'male' nudity (without
> stating that on their entry forms) so anyone who entered male figures was also
> out of luck, and out of their
> money (at least male nudes that showed any pubic hair)....And I always thought
> it was understood that nude
> people *had* pubic hair.  ;- )
> 
> It is that type of disorganization that led them to feature on Swiss
> photographer over all others in the world
> because he was 'handy' to use as filler.  This was not how they set things
> up...And of all publishers, Graphis
> *should* have known better.
> 
> In their favor, I will say that they did return my original (archival show
> quality) photographs, even though
> they clearly stated they they would not be responsible.  It took 4 years, but
> they did get them back to me.
> 
> I hope I have given you some insight as to why I reacted the way I did,
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Despite the fact that Graphis does beautiful publications, and despite the
>>> fact that in the past I had my work
>>> in their first book of Nudes (Graphis Nudes), I have to say that they have a
>>> terrible attitude towards their
>>> artists, I would never enter again.
>>> 
>>> They charge you for the privilege of submitting work for publication in a
>>> book
>>> that they sell for a profit.
>>> Even if you get in the publication, they don't give you a copy of said
>>> publication....they give you a measly
>>> discount (which is still above the wholesale price...so they are making even
>>> more money, beyond the entry
>>> fee).  They also reserve the right to reprint these images in future
>>> editions,
>>> to earn even more money off of
>>> you.
>>> 
>>> While I understand the desire to have one's work seen, it is just another,
>>> in
>>> a long line of examples of
>>> artists being abused by 'the system'...It's not like they are a 'not for
>>> profit'....this is how they make
>>> their money.
>>> 
>>> end of rant.
>>> 
>>> Harvey Ferdschneider
>>> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> sdmey4@... wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Todd, thanks for this, you saved me making the anouncement myself. I'am
>>>> packaging up my entry tonight! Graphis books are of the highest quality,
>>>> and
>>>> so beautifully done. Any photograher would be honored to be included in one
>>>> of there publications.
>>>> I've been busy and almost forgot about it, and then I was thinking/is my
>>>> stuff really photography? Anyrate I'm sending them 7. Digital files, and
>>>> matching Ink prints.
>>>> Steve M.
>>>> In a message dated 10/09/2001 8:43:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>>> tflash@... writes:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Thinking about Steve M's possible large print sale deal --particularly
>>>>> thinking how beautiful his work is-- made me think I should let you all
>>>>> know
>>>>> about a call for entries by Graphis Publications for their first edition
>>>>> of
>>>>> a book called Flora 1. The deadline is October 15th. I know several people
>>>>> on this list have wonderful bodies of work which focus on plant life.
>>>>> However, I called their office and they are open to landscapes too if
>>>>> their
>>>>> focus is on flora/fauna-- so it's not just for photos of flowers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graphis is a very highly regarded publisher that many creatives look
>>>>> through
>>>>> it for inspiration, so not only is it an honor to have your work selected
>>>>> for publication but it's also great PR which can often lead to sales and
>>>>> assignments. I'd say their focus is primarily on the commercial arts but
>>>>> with a greater emphasis on the word "art" than just about all others of
>>>>> it's
>>>>> kind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The usual disclaimers apply, I'm just a fan of their books and magazine
>>>>> and
>>>>> hope to submit a few inkjets of my own. If anyone enters, good luck.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here's the link:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://graphis.com/bks/cfe/cfe.cal.0.EN.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Todd
>> 
> 
> 
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