Digital BW, The Print

Todd,
I think usefulness of appearing in the magazines (Graphis and Communication Arts) for self promotion, and the
'annuals' are different then these 'themed' book projects.

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC

Todd Flashner wrote:

> Thanks Harvey, I appreciate your take.
>
> I just want to clarify one thing I was speaking of. American Photography was
> a series of Annuals that I knew of earlier in the 90's; I don't know how
> many volumes they actually produced, but I think it was at least 4 or 5. I
> think it may have been in partnership with Photo District News' publisher,
> because I think the one time I submitted a print it was through PDN's
> office. It was a different beast than American Photo the magazine
> altogether.
>
> Well, I can't speak first hand about how useful being published in one of
> Graphis' books might be, but I was reading on APA's list some Photographers
> remarking how useful being published in the Communication Arts annual was
> for them, so I assumed that Graphis' stature would yield similar results,
> but I'm sure that a lot more creatives subscribe to CA than buy the Graphis
> books, so it might well have been a flawed assumption on my part.
>
> Todd
>
> >> I'm interested in your take on this. On the surface they look no worse to me
> >> than competing publications, such as Communication Arts, or American
> >> Photography. So, while I'm sure everything you say is true, how are they
> >> different than the others?
> >
> > First I should say that I have over time, become wary about entering any
> > competitions, therefore it may be me,
> > and not the rest of the world.  But my experience on both sides of the review
> > process has shown me that it is
> > so arbitrary as to be ludicrous.  I have seen too many ridiculous judgments
> > made (outside of the parameters
> > set forth in the competition rules) based purely on subjective likes and
> > dislikes (like 'I don't like the
> > color blue, or red, whatever').
> >
> > When I was younger I had others tell me that competitions like that were
> > always bad, and took advantage of
> > artists and I did not understand, I think I do now.
> >
> >> Okay, you don't get a free book out of it,
> >
> > Their books are *very* expensive. When I was in the Graphis Nudes it was
> > something like $60 to $80 (US).  I
> > could get it on the street (or now from Amazon) cheaper.   How much could it
> > have realistically cost them to
> > give each accepted entrant a copy? I think it's pure greed on their part,
> > taking advantage of desperate
> > artists.  If someone approached you on the street and said:  "Tell you what,
> > I'm going to make greeting cards
> > of your work, and sell them, but give you nothing beyond the privilege of
> > seeing your work in print."  Would
> > you go for it?   I doubt it.  It's all relative. Why is the above Graphis
> > 'competition' different?  Graphis is
> > using the 'contest' as a profit center, which is less than altruistic.
> >
> >> but
> >> their submission fees are a lot more reasonable than most of the others I've
> >> seen. I like that. I don't know of any high end publication that doesn't
> >> charge some entry fee for submissions and many charge you an additional fee
> >> for scanning and separations if your work is selected. I suppose I'm not
> >> crazy about them reserving the right to continue to use your work for future
> >> publications but, I wonder how many times they've actually republished an
> >> image. Furthermore, most people enter these types of award competitions for
> >> the exposure, so additional publication in a future volume would be more
> >> good fortune.
> >>
> >> Seems to me that if you want your work to be seen at the highest level in
> >> the commercial arts world and given the stamp of approval by the one of the
> >> highest arbiters of taste (in that segment of the industry), the reasonable
> >> entry fee makes for the cheapest advertising you can get (if your work is
> >> selected) and probably much more effective than source book ads. It's not
> >> free at $30 for 5 submissions, but the reward to risk ratio seems really
> >> small to me.
> >
> > While it is, in fact *much* cheaper than a source book ad, it is not, in my
> > experience, very effective.  With
> > our sourcebook ads we get at least 40 calls per year, from people who are
> > *very* interested in hiring us and
> > allowing us to earn lots of money, more than enough to pay for the ad (on a
> > single job alone).  Further, I
> > have visited with many an art director or photo editor who was familiar with
> > our work because of our ads in
> > sourcebooks.  The same cannot be said for my image in the Nudes/Graphis.  I
> > have *never* met anyone who either
> > mentioned having seen it, or approached me regarding buying or even looking at
> > my work.
> >
> > Many times 'not for profit' groups run competitions with subsequent shows and
> > publications of the results.  In
> > almost all of these situations the fees cover the cost for the organization to
> > produce these events...They are
> > not 'profit centers', as they are with Graphis.  Even with American Photo, a
> > case could be made that the costs
> > for the magazine to produce the competition is covered by the entry
> > fees...which is very labor intensive.  It
> > is not like American Photo is publishing a separate hardcover book, of the
> > winners to sell.   (Is it ? I could
> > be wrong, but I thought that they only published the winners in their
> > magazine.)
> >
> >>
> >> With that said, I do respect your opinion, so I'd like to hear more about
> >> your experience with them. I'm just not sure I see why you are disenchanted
> >> with them. Was there nothing good that came from being published by them? Do
> >> you feel the same way about all the awards books? Do you feel the same
> >> if/when you're submitting commercial work?
> >
> > The question of commercial work competitions is a good one.  I/we have not
> > entered any so I can't really
> > answer that question.  Whenever we see these things, our work does not seem to
> > fit the types of parameters
> > that they are covering.
> >
> > Again, my disenchantment came over time.  Among other things, it also came out
> > of my experience with Graphis,
> > specifically.  When they set up the original Nude competition, the results
> > were supposed to be published
> > within 6 months of the deadline.  As I recall, it took well over a year.
> > Apparently, Graphis (who should have
> > known better) used a printer in the Far East in a country that did not allow
> > very much nudity to be published,
> > so they had a lot of the work seized in customs and eventually had to rework
> > their publication so that there
> > was no pubic hair showing among other things. They also, as I recall decided
> > against 'male' nudity (without
> > stating that on their entry forms) so anyone who entered male figures was also
> > out of luck, and out of their
> > money (at least male nudes that showed any pubic hair)....And I always thought
> > it was understood that nude
> > people *had* pubic hair.  ;- )
> >
> > It is that type of disorganization that led them to feature on Swiss
> > photographer over all others in the world
> > because he was 'handy' to use as filler.  This was not how they set things
> > up...And of all publishers, Graphis
> > *should* have known better.
> >
> > In their favor, I will say that they did return my original (archival show
> > quality) photographs, even though
> > they clearly stated they they would not be responsible.  It took 4 years, but
> > they did get them back to me.
> >
> > I hope I have given you some insight as to why I reacted the way I did,
> > Harvey Ferdschneider
> > partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Despite the fact that Graphis does beautiful publications, and despite the
> >>> fact that in the past I had my work
> >>> in their first book of Nudes (Graphis Nudes), I have to say that they have a
> >>> terrible attitude towards their
> >>> artists, I would never enter again.
> >>>
> >>> They charge you for the privilege of submitting work for publication in a
> >>> book
> >>> that they sell for a profit.
> >>> Even if you get in the publication, they don't give you a copy of said
> >>> publication....they give you a measly
> >>> discount (which is still above the wholesale price...so they are making even
> >>> more money, beyond the entry
> >>> fee).  They also reserve the right to reprint these images in future
> >>> editions,
> >>> to earn even more money off of
> >>> you.
> >>>
> >>> While I understand the desire to have one's work seen, it is just another,
> >>> in
> >>> a long line of examples of
> >>> artists being abused by 'the system'...It's not like they are a 'not for
> >>> profit'....this is how they make
> >>> their money.
> >>>
> >>> end of rant.
> >>>
> >>> Harvey Ferdschneider
> >>> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> sdmey4@... wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Todd, thanks for this, you saved me making the anouncement myself. I'am
> >>>> packaging up my entry tonight! Graphis books are of the highest quality,
> >>>> and
> >>>> so beautifully done. Any photograher would be honored to be included in one
> >>>> of there publications.
> >>>> I've been busy and almost forgot about it, and then I was thinking/is my
> >>>> stuff really photography? Anyrate I'm sending them 7. Digital files, and
> >>>> matching Ink prints.
> >>>> Steve M.
> >>>> In a message dated 10/09/2001 8:43:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >>>> tflash@... writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thinking about Steve M's possible large print sale deal --particularly
> >>>>> thinking how beautiful his work is-- made me think I should let you all
> >>>>> know
> >>>>> about a call for entries by Graphis Publications for their first edition
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> a book called Flora 1. The deadline is October 15th. I know several people
> >>>>> on this list have wonderful bodies of work which focus on plant life.
> >>>>> However, I called their office and they are open to landscapes too if
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> focus is on flora/fauna-- so it's not just for photos of flowers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graphis is a very highly regarded publisher that many creatives look
> >>>>> through
> >>>>> it for inspiration, so not only is it an honor to have your work selected
> >>>>> for publication but it's also great PR which can often lead to sales and
> >>>>> assignments. I'd say their focus is primarily on the commercial arts but
> >>>>> with a greater emphasis on the word "art" than just about all others of
> >>>>> it's
> >>>>> kind.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The usual disclaimers apply, I'm just a fan of their books and magazine
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> hope to submit a few inkjets of my own. If anyone enters, good luck.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's the link:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://graphis.com/bks/cfe/cfe.cal.0.EN.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Todd
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often
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>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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